joanna.darby@ifs.com, Author at Future of Field Service

My husband and I have a running joke when one is complaining to offer a solution and then say, “or do you just want to complain about it?” The way I roll my eyes at him when he says “yes” makes me think of how I feel about the field service organizations making a very half-hearted effort to address the challenges of today’s talent landscape.

Should we change our job descriptions and recruiting practices? Nah, let’s just complain. Shall we finally accept that we have to work harder than we used to by – gasp – training capable but inexperienced workers rather than expecting they drop from the sky with 10+ years’ experience? Let’s resist (and complain).

All the complaining about what’s changed and the pining for “how it used to be” is wasted energy that would be better put toward adapting to the current circumstances, because they aren’t changing anytime soon. So, yes, you do need to change your approach to attracting and recruiting – and, yes, you do need to put more effort into not only training and enablement, but culture and leadership. But if you do the work, the talent is there – and they’re telling you what they want and need if you’re just willing to listen.

Take, for instance, Teresa Carneiro, Field Service Engineer at STEMCELL Technologies, who recently shared her story on the UNSCRIPTED podcast. Teresa is 24 years old, from Portugal, and after finishing her master's degree in biomedical engineering set a goal to work in Germany. Having landed in a Field Service Engineer role in Munich for Vancouver-based STEMCELL, Teresa had a lot to share about her experience seeking said role.

Having had the opportunity to meet Teresa in person at the Future of Field Service Live event in Cologne this past June, I can attest to her appeal in terms of field service talent (the various job offers she received throughout the day are further proof). Most organizations are seeking greater diversity, including bringing more women into roles, and far more importantly than that she is intelligent, engaging, well-spoken, and passionate about her work. The insights she shared during our podcast are food for thought for organizations across industries looking to break free from the status quo and take action to modernize their talent approach.

#1: The Field Service Branding Problem Persists

I wrote an article a while back about the field service branding problem, and the premise endures. There isn’t ample representation of field service careers and, therefore, it’s a sort of unknown category of career opportunity that varies greatly by industry but overall falls victim to being “under the radar.” Kids in school talk about wanting to be doctors or teachers or athletes or businesspeople, but they aren’t aspiring to lead a global service organization (or a regional service company).

“One thing that I felt that was really lacking throughout my whole university experience was having some real examples of what it is possible to do after you finish your studies,” says Teresa, “And of course, you can do your own research, but having real life examples and people to talk about how their daily life actually looks like gives you a much clearer idea of what your own life can look like if you choose that path.” She came across the opportunity of becoming an FSE because she had a friend working in a similar role and felt it was an opportunity she’d enjoy.

While it’s a long-game approach vs. a real-time fix, it's important to consider how we work to make the world of field service more visible and the career opportunities within that world better known to children and students.

#2: We Don’t Have a Talent Gap, We Have an Experience Gap

Many service organizations have been accustomed to hiring FSEs or technicians with previous experience and are really struggling to accept that hiring based on experience is a practice of the past. We talk about the “talent gap” but in reality, there isn’t a shortage of talented candidates – there’s a shortage of candidates that have already done the job.

Companies that are taking the initiative to revisit requirements, finding ways to offer additional training or certifications or apprenticeships so that they can seek capable and teachable employees rather than those who have been in a similar role are opening up a far broader realm of possibility. “I think it is very curious because ever since I actually joined the industry, I have heard all sorts of companies saying exactly how hard it is to get young talent in their teams,” shares Teresa. “But I must say that having very recently searched for a job, I felt exactly the opposite. I felt that I was always behind because I didn't have any previous experience in this industry. Even when you come across some entry-level jobs, they often ask for years of experience. It can be a bit discouraging. And especially in this type of role, you need a lot of training regardless of your previous experience because of how specific it is. I truly believe that recently graduated students can bring a lot to the table. We are used to learning so many different things in such short timeframe.”

#3: Many Field Service Job Descriptions Are Hindering Efforts

There’s the need to evolve to a point of not requiring previous experience, but that particular issue aside many field service job descriptions are deterring potential candidates. Everything from inaccurate or outdated requirements (such as needing to lift 50 pounds when, in reality, no FSE has lifted more than 15 in history) to highly technical or niche terminology to poorly articulated descriptions of what the work and opportunity looks like are causing massive challenges.

It's important to consider: when is the last time you really updated your job descriptions? When you did so, how critically did you examine not only the criteria but the unconscious bias and the appeal to candidates? Many organizations haven’t updated as recently as they should, and even more haven’t truly reflected on what could help them cast a wider net of applicants to have more potential talent to choose from.

Let’s also remember that evidence shows that women are far less likely to apply for a role if they do not meet all requirements, which is important to consider if you have the goal of increasing diversity. “At first, if I didn’t meet all requirements, I would not apply. Then I started to understand that this simply wouldn’t work; I needed to apply and then prove myself in the interviews. If they meet me, I might change their minds. And that's what happened,” says Teresa.

It's fortunate for Teresa, and her employer, that she was given an interview despite not meeting 100% of the criteria. But this is a lesson for companies to consider the talent they are missing out on by not revisiting how they position the roles they need to fill. “I applied anyway, because I figured, what do I have to lose? And I encourage young people to do the same. Whenever I'm talking with friends that are searching for new jobs, I always say, apply even if you don't fit every requirement. Because it might change their mind when they meet you and talk to you,” Teresa says.

#4: Know Your Audience: What Appeals to Younger Talent about Field Service Roles

Tied in to creating more awareness appeal of field service roles and updated job descriptions to reflect what matters most to today’s talent, you first must understand what it is younger candidates are seeking and will find attractive about the FSE role. For Teresa, the appeal began with the sense of purpose she feels as an FSE. “I have found a job that allows me to keep in touch with the research environment I studied. For me, being able to bridge the gap between industry and research makes me feel really accomplished and that I'm doing something meaningful,” she shares.

Many younger workers are drawn to the opportunity to travel, which is common with field service roles. “I was excited for the opportunity to travel, to be exposed to different environments,” says Teresa. “I do love traveling and having the opportunity to visit not only places in Germany but also other countries in Europe.”

Teresa was also excited for the opportunity to hone her communication and people skills. “I also like to talk to people and establish communication with our customers. I see this job not only as servicing machines, but also listening and understanding our customers, which in my case are researchers,” she says. “I can relate to them and I can understand their urgency.”

Field service holds a lot of potential in offering variety as well as flexibility, if the company embraces doing so. For young talent that hugely values work-life balance, this can be an advantage. “I like that not every day is the same and I appreciate the flexible work hours,” explains Teresa. “In the same week, I can have some days working from home, others traveling, and also some days in the labs. Not always being in the same place for a nine to five job is also one of the reasons this role is so appealing to me. The younger generations are definitely more focused on work-life balance than previous generations.”

#5: Understand that Improving Recruiting is a Small Piece of a Much Bigger Puzzle to Solve

If you really want to create a winning talent strategy, it must reach beyond the recruiting and hiring phases. Companies can get wrapped up in these areas because of the acute need to fill roles, but the reality is if you aren’t creating a working environment that this talent wants to be a part of, retention will be poor and you’ll constantly be trying to catch up.

For companies who are bringing in more diverse candidates, consideration of the employee experience is even more imperative. If your new employees are different in any way from the “typical” employees, think ahead about what work is needed to ensure they are welcomed, treated fairly, and feel comfortable communicating any challenges.

“So far I've not really faced any big challenges. However, all of my visits so far have been joint visits as I'm still in training. And I guess that another thing that might make me feel more comfortable and secure is that I work mainly with research labs where, in contrast with field service, there are a lot of women working. Compared to other industries, I feel this one might be a bit easier to fit in as a woman, even though all of my field service colleagues are men,” Teresa shares.

Teresa not only felt very respected and supported by her manager from as early as the interview process, but she has felt welcomed by her peers. “I feel my company's culture is overall very welcoming. One thing I really appreciate is that everyone is super available to include me and have me join customers visits. They always take extra time to explain and train me properly. They never make me feel like a burden or like I'm delaying their work or making them stay longer or anything,” says Teresa. “The other thing that was also reassuring is that I was never given a time limit to when I need to be ready to start going alone. My company has always reiterated that I will only go alone when I feel comfortable and ready.”

The employee experience begins with onboarding and initial training, both of which demand proper focus. “With all the training [two intensive training weeks in Canada at headquarters and subsequent joint visits], I feel really equipped. As I've said before, the training is so specific that even if I'd had previous experience, it would not help me necessarily with this equipment. I don't think that would make such a difference,” Teresa says.

Of course, the quality of leadership and type of management plays a fundamental role in employee satisfaction and retention – this is another area of evolution and significant differentiation for some companies. “So far, I’ve been really lucky with my current manager because there is no micromanagement whatsoever. There’s a sense of ownership that comes from, of course, being given the tools that you need, but also having the freedom to explore the way you're most comfortable doing things and tackling issues in your own way,” says Teresa. “Instead of just being told how I need to approach services, I have been given space and highly encouraged to find the way that is best for me.”

#6: Check Your Bias and Assumptions

As younger workers enter field service and diversity improves in other areas as well, it’s more important than ever for us to be very aware of our biases and assumptions. As companies work to evolve to today’s talent landscape, knowing that you don’t know what you don’t know is imperative. Get curious, ask questions, seek to understand.

This importance was illustrated when I asked Teresa how she feels her draw to field service might evolve as she progresses into other phases of life. “Of course, I have no idea how my life is going to look in a few years. And I don't know if I will enjoy traveling as much as I do now,” says Teresa. “These questions about balancing this type of job with parenthood are often framed as exclusively a woman's problem, such as how do you see yourself managing this lifestyle when you become a mom? And, of course, you did not frame it that way, nor did you assume that I do want to have children, which is also not an assumption that should be made for every woman. But this balance is not just a woman's problem. This might be a concern for anyone who wants to start a family and knows how much time we spend away from home in this type of job. So, companies should tackle this problem and get creative, having everyone in mind and not just women.”

As we work to modernize our approach to talent, we have to understand that there are deeply embedded assumptions, norms, and unconscious bias that must be mined and mediated.

In conclusion, Teresa shares some thoughts on her recent experience seeking, obtaining, and starting a FSE career: “A young person's perspective is that the companies that are investing in creating flexibility and creative environments and that are promoting professional but personal growth as well and that provide a safe space for learning are definitely on the right track. Believing in young people and their skills is crucial as is giving them a chance, even if there are other candidates with more experience. Everyone needs their first opportunity to show their work. And ultimately, the companies that are working hard to attract this new talent hold significant power in including the younger generation.”

The shortage of skilled labor is a problem that has been hanging over the field service sector for years, and only got worse in the aftermath of the pandemic. We’ve talked about this challenge from a variety of standpoints – how technology can help maximize resource utilization and speed the onboarding of new hires, how we need to change recruiting practices, and how we must work harder to collect and democratize the institutional knowledge of retiring techs.

But are we overlooking an opportunity to find better or different ways to work with our older technicians? The Harvard Business Review ran an article earlier this year exploring the ways that companies can keep older workers engaged on some level to help fill in the labor gaps they face.

Through at least 2030, one of the biggest challenges is going to be the retirement of Baby Boomers, all of whom will be at least 60 years old by the end of this year. Each day, 10,000 of them hit retirement age. The article also cites a ManpowerGroup survey that found the share of companies reporting a talent shortage rose from 35% in 2013 to 77% in 2023.

In response, many companies are finding new ways to approach the graying of the workforce, including attempting to keep older workers around past age 65 in full-time, part-time, or hybrid positions to help keep staffing levels up while training and mentoring younger co-workers.

According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, more than 10 million Americans over the age of 65 are still employed. That figure could rise to 15 million by 2032, and 27% of senior citizens are actively looking for jobs.

Of course, field service work is not the same as, say, being a doctor, a teacher, or a software programmer. Depending on the industry segment, technicians can be expected to do a lot of very physical labor and/or to work in harsh conditions. Some technicians would likely bristle at working past retirement age while others would love to stay involved in some capacity.

There are numerous ways that field service organizations can benefit from working with their older technicians to optimize the timing and degree of their retirements. They could, for example, encourage older technicians to stick around as mentors, supervisors, or support staff. They can help get new hires up to speed and keep projects on track. Some companies may be able to keep older technicians involved on a part-time or contract basis handling basic troubleshooting or light-duty service calls or pitching in during peak demand times. With remote assistance technologies, there are more and more opportunities for older technicians to aid in service resolution from an office or even home, or to give “hands-on” support to a mentor, from a distance.

There may also be opportunities for companies to recruit older or retired technicians from adjacent industries. A tech may have passed the point where they can safely work on an offshore oil rig but could still be an asset in a less arduous service environment in an industrial or residential service field.

HR departments at service organizations could look at the existing pool of technicians and start having open conversations about their retirement plans and try to coordinate that with the onboarding of new hires. Those discussions are going to vary a lot based on age, health, family situation, and industry. The point is not to start pushing people out the door or trying to get them to stay past the point they want to work, but to find common ground that helps them meet their retirement goals and still make sure the business can support its customers. Just like a good company has paths to career advancement, they might want to create formal paths to (for lack of a better term) de-advancement – shifting into less-demanding roles as they reach or pass the typical retirement age.

There are ways this can be appealing or helpful for technicians, too. They may need to maintain company health benefits, for example, or they could use the extra income. According to the HBR article:

“If older people have more years to enjoy purposefully, they also have more years to fund. Many Americans approaching or in retirement do not have nearly enough savings. The Boston College Center for Retirement Research has found that nearly half of working-age households are at risk of not being able to maintain their current standard of living in retirement, even if the people in them work to age 65. Our recent research found that more than 40 million workers were thinking of retiring later than planned (by an average of five years), most often for financial reasons. Working longer is prudent for many—and necessary for some.”

Don’t get me wrong, that’s not a great scenario. People shouldn’t have to keep doing hard, manual labor into their 70s because the cost of living is too high. But there is probably an opportunity for employers to work with older technicians to ease that burden, address some labor shortage issues, and better protect institutional knowledge by taking a fresh look at how retirement works.

Has your company found novel ways to keep older techs engaged and involved in a way that’s mutually beneficial? Send me a note and let me know what you are doing!

Episode 277

In this episode of the Unscripted podcast, host Sarah Nicastro welcomes Alban Cambournac, VP of Consulting and Digital Services at Schneider Electric, to discuss the company’s digital journey and how it is taking its lessons learned and best practices and helping its customers achieve success as well. Alban shares his lessons learned in a global career, Schneider’s being named the most sustainable company of 2024 by TIME magazine, and what he thinks of all of the AI buzz.

With over 25 years of experience in digital power, buildings, and energy management, Alban is an experienced leader at Schneider Electric, driving growth and innovation. He leverages his strong background in product marketing, strategy, and engineering to lead the US Consulting and Digital Services team, delivering value-added solutions through connected services. Alban holds an MSEE from SUPELEC and an EMBA from Vanderbilt University.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

The Show Notes

Alban - 00:00:00:

I think Schneider Electric has always been a pioneer in the adoption of digital technologies in the domain of energy management and industrial automation. We're very focused in our strategy and applications areas. So really our future is actually focused on the adoption of these technologies and making sure that these are making an impact for every business and every people around the world, right? To make the most of the energy, our energy, to make the most of our resources.

Sarah - 00:00:35:

Hello, welcome to the UNSCRIPTED Podcast, where you'll find discussions on what matters most in service, leadership, and business transformation. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Let's jump in. Welcome to the UNSCRIPTED Podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Today, we're going to be taking an inside look into Schneider Electric's digital journey, talking about how to avoid common woes, amplify wins, and what that journey looks like, not only today, but into the future. I'm excited to welcome to the podcast today, Alban Cambournac, who is the Vice President of Consulting and Digital Services at Schneider. And notably, Schneider was just named this year by Time Magazine, the world's most sustainable company of 2024, which is an incredible acknowledgment. So welcome to the podcast, Alban, and thank you for being here.

Alban - 00:01:30:

Thank you for having me, Sarah. Hello to every listener.

Sarah - 00:01:33:

Yeah, and some of them may be familiar with you. You do your fair share of speaking at different industry events, and I've personally always enjoyed your sessions and looking forward to our chat today. So before we get into everything we have to cover, just tell everyone a little bit more about yourself and anything you'd like to share about your role, about Schneider, etc.

Alban - 00:01:55:

Yes, thank you so much. To get started, where is home for me? Home is in Nashville, Tennessee. Actually, I'm in our Nashville hub office. So I've lived in Nashville for about 25 years with my wife and my two sons who are now grown up and in college now. And I've worked with Schneider Electric for 25 years. I lead the consulting and digital services business. I was very, very fortunate 25 years ago when I moved to the U.S., to join a very fast-growing business focused on the digital transformation of electrical systems. And this is where my digital journey started. And I had a career both on the engineering side, but also on the global business development side with an opportunity really to travel all over the world and do business in over 50 countries. So really very, very interesting career. And on a more personal basis, I'm passionate about, a little bit some of the extreme sports a little bit, but I do quite a bit of skiing, scuba diving, started kite surfing.

Sarah - 00:02:51:

That's really fun. Yeah. The kite surfing part, I don't know. I don't know about that. I don't know. Now, I was going to say, we can see in your background that you're in Nashville, but you don't have that traditional Nashville twang. So can you just sort of talk a little bit about, I know you said you've been there 25 years, but where did your journey begin and how did you land in Nashville and end up calling that home?

Alban - 00:03:13:

Yes, yes, for sure. And this is my typical opening in keynotes that I do is I talk about the fact that I don't have that Nashville twang. Yeah, so my wife and I are actual first-generation immigrants to the U.S. we're from France originally. My hometown, for those who know a little bit about France, is Lyon. And I went to college in the Paris region. And my background, original background, is electrical engineering. The interesting story here was we were looking to move to China, actually, with my wife. And the Schneider Electric called me back and said there was a great opportunity for me in Nashville, Tennessee. And not knowing where Nashville, was on the map, we actually said, hey, this sounds like a great opportunity. And 25 years later, here we are. We never looked back and are very happy.

Sarah - 00:03:54:

That's wonderful. China, Nashville, a little different, but I'm glad that you're happy with where you ended up and have enjoyed making a home there. I've been to Nashville myself. It's a great city, but also a beautiful part of the country. When you think about doing a lot of the outdoor activities that you said you like to do, there's some great options nature-wise within a bit of a road trip from where you are. So that's really nice as well.

Alban - 00:04:18:

Absolutely.

Sarah - 00:04:19:

Done. Okay. So you mentioned that you've had the opportunity in your career to work through a lot of different countries. So you've been in a global role for about a decade. And so I'm wondering if you can just share any notable observations, I guess, one on how do you feel like having the opportunity to be in a global role has impacted you in your career and in your life? And then two, are there any observations when it comes to digitalization on commonalities, major differences? What comes to mind when you think about the global ecosystem?

Alban - 00:04:56:

Yeah, perfect. And it's a great question. And actually, I did not mention, but I spent four years in India. Very fortunate to be there with my family. And at the time, I had a chance to manage the whole Asia Pacific business development and spend actually the time in China that we wanted to spend among other countries. So this was great. One of the key benefits and understanding that I got from this experience is really an understanding of cross-cultural communications and then also how to collaborate in very diverse teams. And this is useful, of course, when you manage global businesses and global teams, but also just here in the U.S., we always work with very diverse teams. I like your question on commonalities, because what you hear often, and I hear it from business leaders or from marketers, is they think that there's like U.S., has unique needs that nobody else in the world has or China has unique needs that nobody else in the world has. And while this is true in some respect, the fact is that there are underlying common requirements that we see from the market, that we see from our customers that are pretty much global. And one of those is really around the trends around digitization that you're mentioning or sustainability as well. And the need for having reliable resilience type of business operations. All these are really common kind of themes. And you can pull a lot from these commonalities.

Sarah - 00:06:21:

Yeah, I love that because we talk a lot on this podcast about, I think we have far more in common than we do differences. Yes, there are those unique layers that are from region to region or industry to industry, but there are these common set of not only challenges, but objectives. And I just think as human beings, we have more in common than we do our differences. And I think it's really cool that you've had the opportunity throughout your career at Schneider to work in all of those different places because you learn so much. And I also think I mentioned to you when we were prepping to do this podcast together that I've had quite a few folks from Schneider on the podcast. Many of them have really good tenure with the company. And I always say that to me is evidence. Anytime someone has been... In a business today for 10, 15 plus years, it's indicative of an organization that is giving people the opportunity to grow and evolve and innovate within the business instead of feeling like they need to go somewhere else to do that. So I love that you've had those opportunities in your role. Okay. When we think about the digital landscape today, can you just start by talking a little bit about your view of what are the biggest opportunities?

Alban - 00:07:41:

Yeah, at Schneider Electric, we see two major trends around the world. And it's the need for electrification on one side and the need for digitization on the other side. And this is to help overcome some of the world's biggest challenges today around climate change, around energy transitions, where people, but also and especially businesses, need way more energy than they needed before. And there's also a global equilibrium shift that we've seen since COVID with really the need to simplify supply chains, have more local and regional kind of presence. And so these are really areas of key opportunities with the underlying also need to accelerate decarbonization. You see all these pledges for front end zero. And you mentioned the Time magazine like ranking as well. So these are very important. And we see this cross segments in the market. It's infrastructure, it's data centers, it's commercial buildings, even residentials. They're all experiencing the same disruption that is brought up by the need for more energy, but also for cleaner energy and more reliable energy. If I use one example, it's in where we see most of this is in the data center world, where the need for capacity that is linked to the explosion of generative AI and so forth is really leading to a big expansion in this area. Also, you can find in the news several. And we're building plants very close to this trend to make sure that we are building the right level of modular prefabricated type of infrastructure to help sustain this type of energy transition and doing this in a very standard way and also in a very digital way. So these require quite a bit of disruptive methods, if you were to be able to handle the uptime of these data centers, but also make them more energy efficient.

Sarah - 00:09:36:

I'm just thinking about when it comes to the customer perspective, what are some of the expectations that they have of Schneider as a digital business?

Alban - 00:09:48:

Yes, it's both in terms of being able to deliver, of course, on time these technologies, but it's also ensuring that we have a very strong foundation for cybersecurity, for data security. These are always top of mind when it comes to those expectations.

Sarah - 00:10:07:

It's interesting how within Schneider, there's this intersection of some of these major trends and themes, right? So we talked about the sustainability piece and the time recognition. We talked about electrification. We're talking about digitalization. And then obviously our focus is service as well. And there's a huge aspect of that really interesting and exciting time to be a part of the business. That being said, it's never just about the excitement or the opportunity, right? There's always hurdles and challenges that come along with modernizing the business, keeping pace with customer needs and with external situations and really having that culture of continual innovation. Can you talk a little bit about some of the challenges or hurdles and how you and the business are working through those?

Alban - 00:10:59:

Yeah, I think one of the biggest hurdles around digitization is having all the layers of a business organization, understand the importance of this digital transformation, not only at their core business process, because typically we see the first adoption of digital and AI is going to be around their core business process. But it's also looking at it from their building infrastructure or their plant infrastructure and looking at the needs here for digitization and giving the impact that they are looking for also from a sustainability standpoint. Some of these hurdles come often from a lack of information. So that's one thing that we work a lot on is on the thought leadership, of course, but it's also one to one with our customers around these conversations and then also addressing concerns about cybersecurity and data security.

Sarah - 00:11:52:

Yeah, that's probably a piece that at least in some of the events that we've attended together or that sort of thing, it isn't maybe talked about as much as it needs to be. Is that concern of in this digital world, if you want to be able to leverage the technologies that exist to provide uptime or to add value to the customer experience, it requires that connectivity and there can be some valid concerns in that regard. So how are you at Schneider kind of working through those concerns with your customers to put them at ease and to make sure that you can progress forward?

Alban - 00:12:30:

Yeah, and a lot of it sometimes is to draw parallels with their current business processes and what is the environment of cybersecurity and data security for their standard business processes. Everybody in their HR function, for example, is using some kind of a connected and online tool. And it's really showing, drawing those parallels and showing that pretty much from a building infrastructure basis, we're pretty much using the same type of technologies and approaches to cybersecurity and data security. This goes a long way in terms of addressing these concerns.

Sarah - 00:13:03:

Okay, that makes sense. Yes, it's a different application within their business, but it isn't necessarily a different world than what they're used to entirely.

Alban - 00:13:12:

Exactly.

Sarah - 00:13:13:

Okay. Now, what about the other thing that I want to talk a little bit about is the need we have as the digital transformation continues or becomes more and more refined or more and more intelligent to upskill employees to be able to navigate that world, embrace digital, and even the need for maybe different roles than we've had in the business before, that sort of thing. So when you think about that gap that can exist between how fast the digital world is moving and then how we need to keep up as businesses from a talent perspective, how do we keep pace with that? And what are some of the changes that you think companies need to consider?

Alban - 00:13:55:

Yeah, and this is a topic, we call it the digital gap. This is a topic I feel very passionate about. And because unfortunately, we really see that actually all generations, it's not a generational aspect, but all generations to some extent struggle with the digital transformation and the evolutions there. And sometimes it really starts with very simple challenges with efficiently using software applications or new technologies and new software technologies. It reminds me of very early on in my career, I was a software engineer and I read a book which was called The Inmates Are Running the Asylum by Alan Cooper. And it's a very interesting book kind of explaining why people are struggling so much with using software or using new technologies, because in the end, the people who have been designing those have not thought too much of the users they're looking at, right? And not everybody is an expert. There's a definite digital gap. And it comes also by sometimes having a lack of access to learning or even sometimes the motivation to learn about these critical new skills, be it digital, be it AI, be it cybersecurity. So one thing we do at Schneider Electric, for example, we're very fortunate to have excellent learning platforms that we use, both internal and external learning platforms, and where we put really programs towards digital upskilling. And now not only about... And all topics are digital, right? And we cover cybersecurity. Of course, we cover all the type of AI and other types of key, also ethical conducts. It's very important in this environment. So we have a full digital citizenship program and we call it Digital Boost. And we're really looking at what is our baseline of competencies here and what is the digital gap and then getting... And our goal is to get over 90% of all our employees worldwide to really undergo this digital upskilling. And this is actually something that we report on Schneider sustainability impact. So it's available externally as well. And it's part of that program to have the digital upskilling. So there's a real motivation and excitement that goes with this and is an example on how to address this digital gap.

Sarah - 00:16:07:

I was just thinking as you were explaining some of the things that program covers, there's, depending on the role within the business you're talking about, there's areas where an employee is really going to need to learn to use a new tool, right? They're going to need to have a fundamental change to how they perform their role. But then there are these other topics that they might not need to be personally firsthand involvement in, but they need to have an acumen about. So cybersecurity, you might have, if we just think about a field service engineer, they might not be directly involved in anything related to how Schneider puts its cybersecurity practices in place and all of that. But if they're on site and a customer says, but what are you doing from a cybersecurity perspective? And they just say, I mean, that's not going to give the impression you want to give of having at least that baseline knowledge and that acumen to be able to understand. The concepts and understand the approach, even if it is outside of their core role. So I think that whole idea of providing actual upskilling in skill where it's needed, but also providing context and knowledge beyond that person's role is really important to help them understand that bigger picture and to help them engage appropriately with customers as well.

Alban - 00:17:30:

And for us, it's an essential knowledge for everybody in the company. And it includes our field service people. It also includes our executives, right? We call it essentials training. Everybody goes through this every year with a very big focus around this topic.

Sarah - 00:17:47:

Yeah. Now, are there any roles that you see on the rise that as the business evolves throughout its digital journey, are there new roles that are becoming more prominent or that you're thinking about how the business will need to hire for those things, etc.?

Alban - 00:18:04:

The more we have roles at the intersection of the business application, but also a very strong understanding of the IT environment. And it's able to bring these two elements together is an area that we're looking for. Connectivity, cybersecurity on one side, and then also data analytics and AI on the other side. These are some of the two critical type of roles that for our digital connected services, we're really looking to strengthen.

Sarah - 00:18:34:

Yeah, you didn't necessarily say it this way, but just to sort of paraphrase, you made mention of the fact that digital transformation is not just an IT initiative. It's a business initiative, right? And so to your point, we have to bring those worlds together in a way that everyone can get on the same page and find the path to what's most valuable, etc. So that makes sense. Okay, so when you think of the big wins at Schneider, so stories of connected customers that you feel the company has executed very well, what stands out from those stories in terms of is there a common through line or is there a common approach? Like what helps take all of these things we're talking about conceptually and make it a success in reality?

Alban - 00:19:28:

Yes, at Schneider Electric and in our business, we manage millions of assets worldwide with connected customers in the U.S. and in the rest of the world. There's a few common elements to winning and to having a great relationship. And first, it comes from really having a known sponsor in our customer organization who's really getting it and is able to transmit this vision and is helping the digital transformation at our customer company. The second one, and we mentioned it, is really having both the business contact and business relationship, but also the buy-in and working very closely with the IT department. So that both on the business side and the IT side, we have a strong understanding of what is the vision, what are we trying to achieve. And when you have this recipe of sponsorship and then putting at the same table the business and the IT, then you are able to... Overcome those hurdles that we talked about. And now you are able to really have some very, very nice stories. And for us, it's all about ensuring reliability and resilience of an infrastructure. And so we have plenty of success stories there where we have remote engineers, remote agents looking and identifying changes in the patterns and behaviors of, for example, an electrical system. And it's able to quickly contact the facility and the customer and say, hey, we have noticed a change. And we're able to dispatch, for example, our field service representatives before it becomes an issue. And an issue can be a power outage, which causes big business impact and lost revenue. But it can be worse and it can some situations can lead to fire and all this, with much bigger consequences there. So really, we have plenty of stories from these assets that we manage around the world of being able to really anticipate and then predict some type of behaviors and address these concerns.

Sarah - 00:21:27:

Yeah, yeah. No, that's great. And I think understanding what that recipe looks like for success in any business is really important to being able to not only replicate it, but recreate it as circumstances change in the technology that is accessible or what the customer needs are, etc. When we hear stories of digital gone wrong, I've heard plenty of these at some of the events we've both been at. Do you feel like there are any common missteps or mistakes that companies are making today with the approach they're taking to digital transformation?

Alban - 00:22:06:

Yeah, you can pretty much take the opposite of the win characteristic I just mentioned. And things go wrong typically when there's a lack of understanding and a lack of adoption of those digital technologies, taking too much of a weight attitude, which can have some consequences, and also the lack of planning around IT and cybersecurity. So that's where things can go wrong a little bit. And I think one story I had mentioned in one of my keynotes was the story we have of working with a facility manager in Mexico and introducing these technologies to be able to do continuous type of thermal monitoring, for example, where you monitor the temperature of equipment or electrical infrastructure. And unfortunately, that site didn't adopt the technology fast enough. And there was a big event, right, where with power outages and major business revenue loss and all this, and really this resulted, I mean, just the business, the power outage and not having the revenue, but also it cost a job to this facility manager and for not having adopted and having the technology in place to be able to prevent this type of things from happening, that's areas where taking a wait and see type of attitude can be problematic versus the success stories we talked about earlier.

Sarah - 00:23:22:

Yeah. No, it's interesting the idea of, I totally agree with you, the wait and see approach can be detrimental. At the same time, the other thing I see companies do is they want to race so quickly to get to the most sophisticated use cases of the technology without getting some of the fundamentals in place. And that can be problematic as well. And I think a lot of that stems from the point you brought up, which is, are the stakeholders aligned? Is everyone on the same page about what the digital journey needs to look like and how the company is going to achieve those objectives? Because if we're looking at it as just an IT initiative, it's going to fail. We have to be thinking about it as that overall view.

Alban - 00:24:06:

Can we see, if I can complement what you're saying, we really work on our relationship with our customers to really be those trusted partners, right? And we go over this setting up these foundations to be able to have success in the adoption of these technologies.

Sarah - 00:24:22:

Yeah, for sure. Now, one of the areas I think companies are either racing ahead to or rolling their eyes at is AI. It's coming up everywhere, headlines, podcasts, events, a lot of hype. I'm curious your perspective on the topic of AI and is it worthy of all the buzz? Is it overhyped in any way? What is your take?

Alban - 00:24:45:

Yeah, and as anybody, I'm sure, you know, I'm spending a lot of time these days learning more about AI and also like using it on a daily basis pretty much. It's an interesting question. I would draw maybe a parallel and maybe I'm going to date myself here, but to the internet, right? End of the 1990s, you had a foundation, a technical foundation, right, of the emergence of the Internet and all this. And a lot of hype around all the applications that you could have on this. And there were a lot of startup companies and all this and a few ended up thriving and then but many ended up not continuing. And I think it's sort of the same thing with AI, right? You have a baseline of technology and the disruption that this technology is bringing to the market. And then on top of that very sound foundation that is here to stay, of course, you have a lot of different experiments of different startups applying AI to different areas. And then figuring out what is going to work and what is not going to work. So I think we're going to see a little bit of this, but it's a revolution. It's a foundational technological that change that just like the Internet is going to be the basis for every transactions in the future.

Sarah - 00:25:57:

Yeah, no, that makes sense. I agree. So when you think about what the next five years might hold, what do you envision for Schneider's digital journey?

Alban - 00:26:07:

This has been really some of the great experiences that I've had, like joining Schneider Electric 25 years ago. And I think Schneider Electric has always been a pioneer in the adoption of digital technologies in the domain of energy management and industrial automation. We're very focused in our strategy and applications areas. So really, our future is actually focused on the adoption of these technologies and making sure that these are making an impact for every business and every people around the world. To make the most of the energy, our energy, to make the most of our resources. That's what we're very excited about. And that's why I'm very excited about to work at Schneider Electric and with our customers to really leverage digital AI applied to energy management, applied to industrial automation and improving sustainability and efficiency overall.

Sarah - 00:26:59:

And you have that TIME magazine recognition that you have to uphold and continue to defend. So that's important work to do, though. And you can feel good about coming to work every day and making an impact.

Alban - 00:27:11:

A lot of it comes from doing this inside Schneider Electric and applying these principles of sustainability inside Schneider Electric, but also helping our customers and helping the societies apply the same things that we're also applying internally. So it's kind of this combination of things that makes Schneider Electric pretty unique.

Sarah - 00:27:31:

Yeah, yeah. 25 years with the company, and we talked about some of the different roles that you've held, a lot of the different places that you've had the opportunity to work. What would you say is the biggest lesson you've learned over your career thus far?

Alban - 00:27:48:

Yeah, and actually our conversation around the adoption, right, of digital technology and the wait and see. I think one of my biggest carolists and maybe a summarize in a quote I always use from Michael Jordan. He says, some people want it to happen. Some people wish it would happen. And then others make it happen. You always want to be on the side of those who make it happen and building a reputation for service excellence while forking the talk. So that's really has been the focus of my career is to really understand what people wish or want to happen. And then really applying myself and my teams and my businesses to making these strategies and visions happen. Now, I have also a more personal example is my wife and I have learned to leverage the power of two. So we've led parallel careers our entire life. Together, we've accumulated like 50 years of professional career. And so we have supported each other through the ups and downs of having two, ever challenging roles and also building a family. So that's another aspect of more personal of the career lessons.

Sarah - 00:28:51:

The power of two. I like that. Yeah. As someone who is still in the thick of it, and my kids are almost eight and nine right now. So it's we're still doing all of that. And you definitely need that support. It makes a huge difference.

Alban - 00:29:03:

Absolutely.

Sarah - 00:29:05:

Alban, thank you so much for coming on and sharing. I really like the Michael Jordan quote, and I think it is really important today to walk the talk, like you said. There's always going to be challenges and hurdles, but the companies that use those as excuses, consciously or subconsciously, to stand still, are very, very quickly falling critically behind. So there's ever more reason to take action, like you said, and work through the challenges and figure it out. So I love that perspective and appreciate you coming on and sharing.

Alban - 00:29:39:

No, and really appreciate our conversation. And thanks again for having me. And I really love your podcast. So congratulations on running a very, very successful podcast.

Sarah - 00:29:49:

Thank you so much. I appreciate it. And it was a pleasure. You can find more by visiting the home of the UNSCRIPTED podcast at www.futureoffieldservice.com. The podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more at ifs.com. As always, thank you for listening.

I live about 30 miles from the beautiful Chautauqua Institution in New York, yet somehow my first visit was just this summer. The Chautauqua Institution is a 150-year-old nonprofit education center and resort that serves as a catalyst for creative exploration, educational growth, relaxation and recreation. Each summer the Institution brings to its campus a stellar lineup of guest speakers and last month I had the opportunity to go hear a talk on AI given by Joanna Stern.

Emmy Award-winning Stern is the Sr. Personal Technology Journalist at the Wall Street Journal. She’s interviewed countless tech leaders and is well versed on today’s trends and tomorrow’s promises. She began her session with a bit of a farce – a video clip of her apologizing for not being able to deliver her talk live. As the audience grumbled, she walked out on stage and shared that the video was entirely AI-generated.

After talking about both the upsides and risks of AI, Joanna was asked by an audience member whether she feels the upsides of AI outweigh the risks. She took a long pause before answering, which surprised me. Then said, “Tough. Yes – it’s the natural evolution of technology. Humans have persevered through others – like the smartphone, which has its own positives and negatives. But we do need to be thinking about the potential negative consequences.”

Joanna began her talk with an overview of AI types and recent advancements, sharing examples of the sophisticated capabilities that have been developed particularly with GenAI. She shared some anecdotes from her interviews, such as Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella stating that his view is, “AI will help us do our jobs better, reducing drudgery and lowering barriers to knowledge work, even creating more jobs.”

Nadella’s points about reducing drudgery and lowering the barriers to knowledge work are ones that hold tremendous promise and could really positively impact service organizations. She also shared the views of Sam Altman, CEO of OpenAI, who said “I’m not scared of jobs going away; I think it’s good. But we need to contend with the speed of which this will happen. Humans will keep finding things to do.”

I feel less warm fuzzies about Altman’s statement, in part because of course the CEO of OpenAI isn’t going to go on record saying he fears how the technology will take jobs. That said, I do think there’s some truth to the point he’s making – if AI is used appropriately, yes it will automate some work – but it makes room for humans to deliver their irreplaceable value elsewhere.

The Potential Dark Side of AI

Joanna readily stated that “We are at a phase where AI doesn’t live up to its hype – but we’re moving fast.” And this is both good and, potentially, bad. She explained that where we are today aligns with the statements made by Nadella and Altman, but where we are going (AG1) becomes murkier. She summarized for the audience a number of AI risks, including:

Hallucinations
The lack of regulations and laws
The need to indicate if something is AI-generated
How AI-generated audio has fooled a bank
How AI has been used to clone presidential candidates and mislead voters
The unknown impact AI will have on our children
The resource constraint being created by the exponential growth of AI
Uncertainty on how to protect IP
Questions around how to keep AI ethical
How AI can perpetuate social ills
The use of synthetic data

She even said at one point that she didn’t mean for the session to cause fear or seem negative. While she is excited about what AI can do today and the potential it holds for tomorrow, she wants to illustrate the need to take both the benefits and the risks seriously. As we determine how best to apply this technology, and when – and when not – to trust it, we should be “thoughtful stewards” of its use, and I think it’s a very important reminder.

Joanna was asked by another audience member what she feels makes us human, to which she responded “creativity.” I think my answer would be empathy, which we should apply as we forge our path of AI. What would your answer be?

In a session from the Future of Field Service Live Tour in Stockholm, Sarah speaks with Darian Ari, Director of Nordic B2B Solution and Implementation at GlobalConnect, about being a young leader, taking chances on new talent, and tackling the service optimization trifecta of enablement, empowerment, and execution.

With deep expertise in IT and Telecommunications, Darian's practical skills make him a standout leader. He excels in critical business management and strategy, optimizing operations and driving growth while prioritizing employee satisfaction, coaching, and a positive organizational culture.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

Watch the video here

Full Show Notes

Darian - 00:00:00:

First and foremost, I think it's really important that we spend a lot of time on recruiting our talents and our future talents, which is something I believe we're really missing out on, is the fact that we are always looking for the one that has the most experience or particularly the educational background to perform the job. And I can tell one of the main reasons why I have elevated my career so fast is because I got the opportunity to take over a team and 90% of the team had resigned at that point of time because of bad conditions. So I had the opportunity to recruit 20 new people, field engineers into my team. And I actually put all my eggs on the underdogs, the ones that nobody believed in, the ones that didn't particularly have the educational background or the experience, because I took my time to actually invest my time and focus area on learning them and getting them on boarded instead of expecting them to come and do the job without any notification at all.

Sarah - 00:00:57:

Hello, welcome to the UNSCRIPTED Podcast, where you'll find discussions on what matters most in service, leadership, and business transformation. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Let's jump in. Okay, so we have Darian Ari from Global Connect, and we're going to talk about the service optimization trifecta. Before we get into that, tell everyone a little about yourself, your role, and what the company does.

Darian - 00:01:23:

Sure. Hi, everyone. Daren is my name, 26 years old, living in a small town outside of Stockholm called Västerås. I am currently the Director of our Nordic Smart Connect department. We are allocated in Sweden, Denmark, and Norway. And GlobalConnect basically works with fiber optics and delivering network services to B2B customers. So everything from cybersecurity to fiber optics to smart solutions for IoT devices. And yeah, basically everything from A to Z when it comes to networking. And that's kind of it.

Sarah - 00:01:53:

Great. Okay, so we're going to talk about the importance of enablement, empowerment, and execution. Can you talk first about in your role and your organization, why service optimization is important?

Darian - 00:02:07:

Yeah, well, sure. If you would ask me this question just a couple of years ago, I think the answer would be very different significantly. But I would say it's the increased customer demands that has made sure that we need to focus on optimizing the increased customer demands, which in that turn, the customers also have really high demands on laws that they need to follow when it comes to networking and security overall. They have their demands towards their management team that they need to secure up some stuff. We've seen many good examples recently of companies being hit by cybersecurity attacks, which have lost millions and millions just because of the fact that they have not taken security or optimization into consideration. And I would say this puts us as a service provider in a really tricky position, because when they actually recognize the issue and try to solve it by buying a new product or optimizing their current solution, it is always under criticality. So this means we always have to work not proactively, but reactively with the customers and designing their solution and what they actually need under production. So instead of working with the portfolio that we have that we sell towards those customers, it is rather impossible to do that at the moment. Since every customer is unique, they are expecting different stuff based on their organization or what they are doing overall. So I would say that's the biggest challenge to optimize during rollout.

Sarah - 00:03:21:

Okay, so are you saying there's a lot of customization in the solutions that your customers are using?

Darian - 00:03:26:

Well, exactly. And the demand difference quite heavily from customers to customers. And especially when a customer all of a sudden receives an attack or needs to do something critical about their current solution. The product portfolio that you're offering on the market is not always dockable into what they are looking for. So basically optimizing and developing under production, that's the tricky part currently, I would say.

Sarah - 00:03:48:

Okay. All right. So if we start to break these things out, if we talk about enablement, what's your perspective on considerations there based on what you are trying to accomplish?

Darian - 00:04:01:

Well, to be honest, Roy said it really well. First and foremost, I think it's really important that we spend a lot of time on recruiting our talents and our future talents, which is something I believe we're really missing out on is the fact that we are always looking for the one that has the most experience or particularly the educational background to perform the job. And I can tell one of the main reasons why I have elevated my career so fast is because I got the opportunity to take over a team. And 90% of the team had resigned at that point of time because of bad conditions. So I had the opportunity to recruit 20 new people, field engineers into my team. And I actually put all my eggs on the underdogs, the ones that nobody believed in, the ones that didn't particularly have the educational background or the experience, because I took my time to actually invest my time and focus area on learning them and getting them onboarded instead of expecting them to come and do the job without any notification at all. So spend more time on actually utilizing your time to get them up and running. Because in that way, you can always form them more easily since they don't have any background of any other cultures or any other aspects that may interfere with what you want to achieve with them. And trust me, the shots that you get as a leader when you put your eggs underdogs, when they are up and running and actually performing really, really well, that is unmatchable. So that's the first step. And then secondly, one of the things I would say, Sarah, is knowledge management. Provide your employees with a career path. And I think all of us can relate to that. I wouldn't go to the gym every day if it weren't for my mental health or my physical appearance of something I want to achieve by going to the gym, right? And the exact same goes for the employees, right? They want to work to achieve towards something. Even if it's a salary, it's a new position, new responsibility area, provide your employees with a clear career path. And in that way, I would really say that you could enable them of sacrificing a lot to achieve what is necessary to get there.

Sarah - 00:05:48:

Yeah. I mean, certainly, it's a difference with today's talent versus historically. People were happy to stay in roles for five years, 10 years, 20 years, and that's not the case anymore. How did you find your underdogs?

Darian - 00:06:01:

Exactly what Roy said. I didn't let anyone take the decisions for me when they sent in the CVs, if they were suitable for the job position I was looking for. Most of them that I recruited didn't actually, rough to say, but they didn't have the mental brain there to actually do the school part of it. They were hardworking people that just wanted to get outside and get a chance. So the way I did it is actually that I spoke to many of the consultancy firms that we're working with, and I asked them to send me all the CVs directly, went through them all. And even the way if I didn't like the CV because of some soft skills or some hard-coded skills like fiber optics, I took a chat with them. I had a one-hour session, took them to a cafe, just talk about life, what their expectations are, what they have done before. And you could find some really, really golden employees by doing that.

Sarah - 00:06:42:

So I think this is interesting because what you're talking about is something that many aren't doing yet, right? But I do think to Roy's point, the idea of hiring based on years of experience is quickly becoming extinct. Now, what I'm curious about is, so I understand you went through the CVs yourself, so you weren't letting someone cast people aside for you. You wanted to make those judgment calls yourself. But when you go and sit down with these people who aren't the typical candidates that maybe the recruiters would have passed along to you, what are you looking for? Like, how are you yourself assessing whether you're willing to place a bet on them, right? Because I'm assuming you're not going to bet on just anyone, right? Like there's something you're kind of looking for. How did you assess those meetings? What were their particular skills or behaviors that you were looking for? Can you talk a little bit about that?

Darian - 00:07:35:

Yeah, sure. And first and foremost, I just maybe a bit to my self background. I have a bachelor in computer science and my job at GlobalConnect is my first job. I haven't been working in any other company before. And I actually started as a field engineer myself five years ago. That's how long I've been at the company. And one of my primary attributes when it comes to working, no matter what position I'm in, is that I always want to be the best at what I'm doing. It doesn't matter if I clean the floor or if I manage 100 people, I always want to be the best at what I am. And one of the factors that plays into that is the communication skills. So that was one of the things I was really, really looking for the ability to communicate, honestly, of course. So there's a famous quote that says, if you want to really know a person really well, take them to a cafe and let them order something, right? So if they take a lot of time on their self to make a simple decision as if they want a coffee or a cake, then you probably should back off from hiring them because it's a decision that doesn't really matter.

Sarah - 00:08:26:

The cafe was a test.

Darian - 00:08:27:

The cafe was a test. Exactly. But I love people. I love different kinds of people. And I don't base my employees on the fact what they have done before or what kind of experience they have. What I'm looking for is what are you able to produce and what are you able to contribute in this setup?

Sarah - 00:08:40:

Okay, so you feel good about the bets that you've made?

Darian - 00:08:43:

Really well. It took me to where I am because we actually flipped the department at that time and reduced CapEx by 80%. So it was the first time in 10 years that it happened in Global Connect. And I can tell you it was purely hard work and dedication to utilize their skills. And I think that's one of the things as well, Sarah, that they didn't really see me as their manager or the leader. I was actually carrying the load with them during that journey, invested in them with a lot of stuff, invested it in, and they felt really tight as a team.

Sarah - 00:09:08:

So you mentioned there were a couple of things you did differently. One was how you brought them in and who you placed the bets on. You also mentioned that you did a lot of the onboarding sort of yourself. So can you talk about with people that didn't have prior experience, how did you sort of equip them to be ready to go out into the field?

Darian - 00:09:27:

So I can tell you some of the people that we hired had basically no knowledge at all of what fiber optics or networking or data comm is. I actually invested a lot of time when I got the role as a manager for the department, the first six months, I built an onboarding program, which was bulletproof and that my grandma could understand, basically. So we started really, really slow, to be honest. And it was on a stupid level that when I even explained it, I was like, anyone could understand this basically. So we started really slow. And then of course, some of the people that we hired had really good experience of what they had been doing before, but they particularly didn't have the educational background for it. So they could also be a supportive functions for the new ones to onboard them and get them up and running as soon as possible. And I didn't actually have the luck to have people in the department that was senior. I had two guys left when everyone resigned. And I really utilized them in a really good way to actually onboard some groups of the people that we hired at that point of time.

Sarah - 00:10:19:

Okay, so can we talk a little bit about empowerment, right? So that's sort of maybe a progression, if you will, of enablement. So you have this new team green to the organization. You yourself are young and you're taking on this new leadership role. How are you looking at empowerment and what factor does that play?

Darian - 00:10:38:

There's one thing that I have really invested a lot of time and budget in, and that is actually sales. What I'm saying is that we should empower our employees with the ability to not only perform their day-to-day duties, but to extend over that and be the face outwards for the company. There is this thing called Selling Service, as it's called. So the example is really, really simple. Say, for example, that you go into a store and you want to buy a shirt and then you enter the store and the store manager comes to you and says, hi, sir, what are you looking for? Yes, just a shirt. Absolutely, sir. I hope you have the best day of your life. Can I ask you for what kind of event? And then you probably would say some ceremonial part for the work. And they say, well, sir, here's the shirt. And then usually our customers buy this tie with it. It goes really well with the shirt. So if you're interested, go ahead and you buy the shirt and you end up buying the tie as well. When you leave the store, if somebody would ask you, did that person sell you something or did they provide you with service? What would the answer be? Service, service. I said service myself as well. So that's what I'm trying to say, right? Every employee within an organization have the responsibility, to act as a salesperson towards the customers. They are the one out there doing the job. The salespersons are just basing their offers on some product portfolio that we have. And the same goes with the IT or field engineering department. So empowering them, I can give you a really good example of it, is that we had a challenge where we actually had a really nice price for the one that not working as a salesperson leading to the most sales lead in the organization after this session we had. So one of the technicians, for example, what they can do is that when they are visiting some customers and they are supporting them with some incident that have occurred and they can solve by themselves. And they are basically saying to the customer, well, you don't buy Wi-Fi access points from GlobalConnect, which means that if you would have done that, we could have supported you via us coming out there, taking three hours, we could have done it remotely. And they'd be like, whoa, does this exist? Yeah, well, sir, we 30 minutes SLA, and everything is solved if you buy the access points from GlobalConnect as well. And that actually led to a sale. That is just an example of many that we can utilize. Like, employees to empower them with the ability to perform more than their regular day-to-day duties. So selling service, that is my mythology I'm living after. And it also gives a really good customer experience because just with the example with the tie and shirt, you felt that you got service and the customers will also feel that they have received service instead of you selling them something. So in short, yeah.

Sarah - 00:12:57:

Yeah. Okay. Makes sense. And I think that idea of empowering those employees to sell service, again, it goes back to the skillset. It requires a different skillset than maybe the technicians have traditionally had. Now, what about execution? So if I'm being honest, listening to your story, you have this new team who you're placing bets on, right? But you have customers that are going to demand execution. So how do you make sure that they get what they need, even though you're sort of taking some risk in doing things a different way?

Darian - 00:13:34:

Well, I think that's also a matter of strategy. I think what lays in the foundation of executing towards the customers and internally is a good strategy. But we had a discussion earlier as well. I think just having a strategy, we've seen many failed attempts of management presenting fancy PowerPoints, numbered charts of what the strategy means. But to actually portion it up to something that is digestible for each and every department is really important. And that is something I have utilized really well is what does this actually mean for our department or you as a field technician, engineer or solution expert? And yeah, you are right, sir. Of course, we were putting a huge bet on them. But if we look at the team now, for example, they are really well skilled with the technical parts that they are doing, of course, and they are getting the support needed to always evolve for the future. And I will always say that. So when it comes to strong customer experience, culture eats strategy for breakfast. So culture always goes first. And then the strategic part is, of course, as important. But I wouldn't say it is in close to what the culture can do with the customer experience or the execution overall of it.

Sarah - 00:14:31:

So you mentioned GlobalConnect is your first role coming out of school. You started as a technician yourself. You've moved pretty quickly through the ranks. And now you're in this leadership position. You said you're 26. What are your thoughts on the value of fresh perspective in this space?

Darian - 00:14:50:

That's a good question. I would say like one of the things that I really would like to implement in the new set is, of course, the way we are approaching the more traditional methodologies of being a leader versus the new modern types of things. It's really important for us as leaders to embrace the fact that there is a lot changing in the world. So adapting to a more modern and enhancing way of actually motivating your employees has significantly been different since a couple of years back. So embracing the fact that we need to be adaptable to those changes as well as a leader and not only expect that our employees follow what we have for kind of leadership methodologies.

Sarah - 00:15:27:

Yeah. What do you think, are there any experiences you've had that are challenging when you're with peers who have been in leadership positions for decades or situations like that?

Darian - 00:15:39:

Yeah. Well, so one of the advantages is, of course, the fact that me myself is the next future of leaders and I'm working with the next generation of field workers as well. So that gives me the ability to have the fresh thinking that they have as well to adapt myself after that. But I will say the challenges are huge, especially many of the field engineers that I currently have in the Nordic setup is my former colleagues as well. I've been working with them on the field and we've been talking shit about management together and all of a sudden I'm leading them. And then there's another aspect of it, which is even more challenging, is that leading leaders as a 26-years-old, that is a really big challenge for me. So sitting around the table and taking decisions based on the strategy and the future of the company overall, with having people around you that basically doesn't trust you, or that you don't get your voice heard, or that you're not considered to be a candidate that can bring the heat to the table. That's a really challenging situation. But trust me, there's nothing better than executing and succeeding in those tricky situations. So you still have to just accept it and go along and do the best out of it.

Sarah - 00:16:39:

Yeah, let the action speak for itself.

Darian - 00:16:41:

Exactly.

Sarah - 00:16:41:

Okay, so let me ask you this. What sort of advice, I guess, or words of caution would you say to someone who has a much more old-school leadership mentality?

Darian - 00:16:58:

To be fair and square, I actually like some parts of the old-school mentality, even though I'm really flexible with my employees when it comes to having remote works or being physically there. I truly feel that touching, feeling, and seeing each other face-to-face is really important. So that's one part that I will keep. But secondly, the only advice I would probably give is that pointing with your whole hand instead of leading the way sometimes isn't the most popular way of doing things today, even though it can be really effective if you are in a result-oriented organization where you actually need results and you're expected to deliver numbers. But otherwise, I would say that is something that really has faded away. And every time I try that approach, it always backfires. So that is one of the things instead of pointing with your hand, grabbing the load with the team and showing them the way is one of the things.

Sarah - 00:17:43:

Yeah. Good.

Episode 269

In this episode of the Unscripted podcast, host Sarah Nicastro welcomes Corrie Prunuske, former President of CoolSys, for a conversation around her experiences as a woman advancing her career in service, the importance of sponsors and how they differ from mentors, the differences between diverse and inclusive, and much more.

Corrie is an experienced executive general manager and growth leader with a proven track record of delivering exceptional results. With over 28 years of leadership experience at Johnson Controls, she excels in sales and operational strategy execution. Corrie is deeply passionate about developing people to achieve their full potential.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

Watch the Video Here

Full Show Notes

Sarah - 00:00:39:

Corrie - 00:01:17:

Hi, thanks, Sarah. Thanks for having me today. I'm excited to be here.

Sarah - 00:01:21:

So I had the opportunity to hear Corrie speak at this year's Field Service Palm Springs event. I really loved your keynote because you were really just sharing your story, but in a way where you could point back to certain things that people could take something away from. So I really enjoyed it. We're going to sort of re-emphasize some of those points today, but get into some other things as well. So it should be a great chat. But before we get into my questions for you. Can you just tell everyone a little bit more about yourself, your background, anything you want to share?

Corrie - 00:01:59:

Oh, thanks, Sarah. Yeah. I mean, like, first of all, I'm a mother of four. My husband and I, we have a blended family. So we have two kids that I got for free when I married him, which was awesome. And then I have mine too. And they are perfect stairsteps. So they're all now adults. The oldest is 21. The youngest is 18. And this fall, we have four kids in collage. So, that's what I do with my personal life is raising those kids together with my husband and their other parents. But I'm also a leader and I've led in large organizations over the years. And I think that, you know, you lead a family, you lead friend groups and you lead at work. And so many roles that I fill, being a mother, number one, but all the other things that I do in my life help me with being a leader.

Sarah - 00:02:49:

Yeah, often you learn things in those different realms of your life that really can help you in the others. There's these lessons that I think particularly with parenting, there's a lot of things you can take and apply to other parts of your life because it forces you to grow so much as a person and, you know, expand your thinking, but also learn new skills and all of that good stuff. Most recently, you were the president of CoolSys, but as you said, you have been a leader in other organizations as well, and we're going to get into some of that. During your presentation at Palm Springs, you broke your story into these three parts. I want to talk a bit about each of those, and the first was getting in and surviving. Can you share a bit about that and tell us a little bit about your early career?

Corrie - 00:03:37:

Thanks, Sarah. I've been 30 years now in the HVAC and R industry. I worked at Johnson Controls for 28 years, and I worked at CoolSys for nearly two years. Gives you kind of perspective on where I am. But when I got out of college, I had an engineering degree, an electrical engineering degree, and I was really just looking for a job. And I was actually getting married. My fiancee already had a job, had been working for a year in Schenectady, New York. I drew a 60-mile circle around that and applied for any job that was in that circle. And actually, Johnson Controls was on campus as a recruiter, and I got the opportunity to meet with them. And they had an office in Albany, New York, which was in that 60-mile radius. I was an application engineer. Actually, I think the first interview as sales engineer, I ended up in an application engineer job. But it was really important to me in that first job to be called an engineer. I worked so hard on my degree, and I just really didn't want to give up the title. I was like, okay, that checks that box. And then the salary was right in the range, that I wanted to be in. And for me, it was get your foot in the door and then see what happens. But I promise you, I never thought that I was going to spend 28 years there. I really just was looking for a job and looking for a way to support myself and be able to do the things that I wanted to do. And I'm thrilled that I actually was lucky enough to get that opportunity and then to make the most of it. So I started in the Albany, New York branch. I was an application engineer. I spent a lot of time on construction sites. In those early years, I would eventually project engineer, which meant even more time on construction sites. And for me, it was a really good experience. I know most people are like, oh, as a woman, you worked on construction sites. That must have been really hard. And I got to tell you, I was treated really, really well in my early career. I really feel like the people that I had around me, I had a mentor, somebody who had been there a long time. He was actually an electrician by trade, but he had moved his way up into a project engineer role. A great mentor, huge fan. I was 21 years old or whatever. It started right. And here's this big guy. And he taught me so much and was so willing to give back to me. And I really appreciated that. And I think it helped really accelerate my ability to learn my new job. And the other thing that was a piece of my early career is that I was very computer literate. I had grown up actually, even for my generation, probably a little bit more computer literate than most because I grew up in a household. My dad was an engineer and we had computers in the household very early before most people did. And so I learned computer skills really early. And so now my kids just make fun of me because I can't even get through my iPhone and figure out how to turn the settings on and off. But back then I was pretty good. And I got to do a lot of things. They would send me to the advanced training on different subjects. So I got an opportunity to meet a lot of people, to get to know what was possible in the organization, which I think I didn't know. I wouldn't have known if I hadn't had those skills. I also applied for a job that had no business applying for about three years into my career. And there was... There's a job called the Area Quality Assurance Manager. And I had met the guy who had filled that role, who was moving on to something else. And he had come by our office and I would always work with him because he was responsible for the LAN, all right, the Local Area Network. And so I would help him out with those things. So I really wanted to do that job. And it was one of those jobs that people don't really know what it was. And in every different area, which is like a geographic distinction, every area, there was one of these folks, but they did it differently. Okay, you're responsible for the technology, you're responsible for training the people, and you're responsible for doing process improvement. And I really wanted the job. And it took me a while to convince them that I was the right person for this job, but eventually I got it. And my husband and I moved to Connecticut to take on that role. And it was really my first big break and really exciting. But what was concerning is I walked, basically said, yes, I'm going to take this job. The guy who hired me called me, I don't even know if it was 48 hours later and said, hey, just want to let you know, I'm leaving. I'm going to Pennsylvania and they're going to bring in somebody else to Connecticut to take on this role. And I was like, oh boy, well, let's see what happens here. And I have to tell you, I got so lucky with that. And it's the thing about luck. I mean, I think about this a lot. And I was really lucky to get this particular leader at this particular time in his career and in my career. But I also worked really, really hard to be prepared for that moment. And so, you know, I think that that's what they say, you know, luck is the intersection of preparation and opportunity. And this was one of those. So new leader, new to a GM role and really trying to make his mark. And I got the opportunity to be a part of his team and to learn from him. And it was just a fantastic experience.

Sarah - 00:08:28:

Very good. You said in your session that you were always confident, but you adjusted yourself to fit in or assimilate, even if not consciously. Can you share an example of how so?

Corrie - 00:08:39:

Yeah. I mean, look, early on, I think the biggest thing is when you're a woman, I don't even know if this still happens today. I certainly would call it out if I saw it. But everybody seems to feel very comfortable with asking you when you're going to have kids. Like, oh, when are you going to have kids? And I was really conscious about this because I knew that there was a stigma around women leaving the workplace when they had kids. And so I would always say, oh, I'm never going to have kids. That was one thing. In fact, even on a construction site once, I was there with the project manager for the GC and his trailer and with a couple of the guys. And he says, oh, yeah, we had a girl once too, but she had a kid and left. And so I was very conscious of that. But I was also, I fitted well with men. I mean, I always had. I was an engineer in college and I worked on an engineering degree. But really since high school, I'd always had a lot of male friends and had been in STEM classes. So I always got along really well with men, but I really did have a very domestic side to me. But I was very careful about not bringing those things up. And examples of that are my absolute passion in life, if you ask me, is food and cooking. I love to cook. I like to do things that most people didn't do in the 90s, like canning vegetables. I did those things before. That's way before COVID when everybody picked it up. But those types of things, making bread, doing those things, crafting around the house, that type of thing. And I was very careful not to talk about that part of my life. I always talked about other things that I did. Going out for a bike ride, going on a hike, going and doing things that made me just neutral, right? And not reminding them of my differences. And so I think about that a lot. And I don't think I did it... I don't know that I was totally conscious of what I was doing, but I really feel like I was leaving a part of myself behind. Now, anybody that works with me, I mean, they know that my passion is cooking. It's also a passion of many men now. So it's a much different conversation. And I've even several male colleagues over the years, I swap recipes with and all of that. But back then, I was really careful about that. I just didn't want to seem different. And I don't want to remind them that, hey, she's a woman, remember? Like, oh, yeah, she's a girl, right? I don't want them to think that way. I wanted them to think about me as just the same as them.

Sarah - 00:10:54:

Yeah. And so this brought us to a point of the difference between diverse and inclusive, right? And so what do you feel like leaders need to understand about that distinction? And where do you think some today are still getting it wrong?

Corrie - 00:11:12:

Yeah, I still think it's very common today. I think that when you look at successful women, there's probably in most organizations that are male-dominated, you'll find that they have a lot of the same characteristics of successful men. And I say that with a caveat because when you look at successful men, I think they have a wide variety of personality types. And I noticed that like introverted males were doing, did okay in, they could actually get into very high leadership roles and many of them quite successful. But when you looked at women, it was always the extroverted women. Like the introverted women were not, they weren't climbing. There's things that were just not. And I think that still goes on today. I think there is still a lot of women out there who are successful in these male dominated industries that find themselves assimilating rather than really being themselves. And I think that it's encouraged too because the guys feel really comfortable. I mean, when you don't care when they swear and you'll sit down and drink a beer with them, you'll talk about, the football game that just happened, all those things make them comfortable too, which is, I think is part of coming halfway. But I do think that it does limit the actual inclusion. And I think for many people, so this is just a woman's experience, but for people of color, for LGBTQ, they feel like they have to repress a part of themselves. In that case, it's like the core, like there's this core that they're not able to show. And I think that it's very disappointing. And I think that as leaders, we have to be able to recognize that, you know what, I see that person as different. And I know that it's not what I'm used to seeing in a diverse workplace. Maybe they have a lot of piercings or tattoos or blue hair. They're different, right? And maybe we feel like, okay, is that professional? Well, you have to drop that. I think that's where we can get better is allowing people to be more of themselves, still professional looking. I do think that there are standards that have to be in place, but folks should be able to bring their whole selves and be able to be who they are. I had a friend in the LGBTQ community, years ago before anybody even talked about it, right? And stood up in a meeting and introduced himself and everybody had introduced himself. I'm married, I've got four kids and three dogs. And he introduced himself and he said he had a partner and they had dogs. And I thought it was so brave. And I've been friends with this man for a very long time. But in that time, that was a standout thing to do. And I think that that's where we have to be very comfortable so that people can really bring their whole selves to work. You get so much more out of people when you're able to do that.

Sarah - 00:13:41:

Yeah. No, that makes sense. I always say that the focus is often on diversity, but inclusion is the benefit of diversity, right? So the focus needs to be on inclusion, not diversity, because diversity on its own isn't doing anything for anyone if it's not an inclusive environment. That is really important.

Corrie - 00:14:05:

Well, people don't stay. I mean, that's the reality. You can have a diversity program, and I've seen it. You bring them in. You get people in the door. You can set rules around, hey, you have to interview at least one diverse candidate for this role in the final round, or you can make sure that you're going out to places where you would find more diverse people, society, women, engineers, NASB, these organizations where you would find those folks. But if you bring them in and then you don't make an environment where they can be successful, they're going to go somewhere else. And guess what? They're in high demand. And so they'll find a place where they'll fit in. And I just think that that's diversity. Yes, you do have to do some of those things to break some biases. I agree that those are good strategies for breaking biases, but those strategies don't work if you don't have an environment where people feel like they can succeed and where they don't see people that look like them and have their similar backgrounds and that they can relate to.

Sarah - 00:15:00:

Yeah. I think, too, you know, you said they'll go somewhere they can be successful, which is true, but also they'll go somewhere they can be themselves. Right. And it isn't necessarily always about fitting in, but about being welcome. We don't need to have a huge group of people just like us because, again, then we're not working toward the real value of diversity. But we need to create environments where differences are welcome and you don't feel like you have to be like everyone else to be comfortable. I think just

Corrie - 00:15:34:

a little nuance there, I would say to me is, you do have to make some effort to meet people in the middle. I really think that that's important. Like we can't just expect that folks, first of all, understand our perspective at all. And sometimes you have to make effort. And I do feel like that is why I probably made more effort than maybe was necessary or should be necessary, but to meet that middle ground. But I think that we as leaders have a responsibility to recognize when people are doing that and make sure that we're pulling them in and finding out what truly is underneath that person. Yeah. I think that's the key.

Sarah - 00:16:14:

Makes sense. I know you said that you had a really positive. Set of experiences in your early career. But when you think about like the surviving piece, getting in and surviving. Is there anything you would note as what felt most challenging?

Corrie - 00:16:35:

Yeah, I think that for me, it was always a surprise that either I was one, that I had an engineering degree or two, that I was smart. It always made me feel awkward because it's the same thing as saying, oh, you're really good at math for a girl. What does that mean? You know, those were the kinds of things I heard in my childhood. Oh, you're a good at math or a girl. I think that's what was a little bit hard early career wise is that I felt like a bit of a novelty. And some ways I'd benefited from that for sure. I'm not going to deny that because it got me some attention that probably wouldn't have happened if I wasn't female. But I do feel like it was, oh, they're always so surprised. There's such low expectations. I think that bothered me. And still today, I find that, you know, reminding people that it shouldn't be a surprise that these people are smart or they know their job or that they've been around for a while or that they have a big career just because they're blonde or just because they're female or they're Black or they're Hispanic. I think that's part of the struggle as someone who is underrepresented in the industries that I've worked in. I think that that's the thing that is most bothersome to me and probably was the most challenging. And I think that as a young person, you come in there like, you know, these guys are going to try and shake you and everything. It is a challenge when you're faced with it and you have to overcome that. And I think as you get older, you start to say, okay, well, my accomplishments speak for myself. Like, I don't need to prove anything now. But it still bothers me when people are surprised that I have a big job or my husband stays home and took care of our kids. Like, that was the way we worked with our family. And it's always a surprise that he would do that and refer to him as lucky, they refer to me as a surprise that I was able to do that.

Sarah - 00:00:39:

Corrie - 00:01:17:

Hi, thanks, Sarah. Thanks for having me today. I'm excited to be here.

Sarah - 00:01:21:

Corrie - 00:01:59:

Sarah - 00:02:49:

Corrie - 00:03:37:

Sarah - 00:08:28:

Very good. You said in your session that you were always confident, but you adjusted yourself to fit in or assimilate, even if not consciously. Can you share an example of how so?

Corrie - 00:08:39:

Sarah - 00:10:54:

Corrie - 00:11:12:

Sarah - 00:13:41:

Corrie - 00:14:05:

Sarah - 00:15:00:

Corrie - 00:15:34:

Sarah - 00:16:14:

Corrie - 00:16:35:

Sarah - 00:18:20:

Yeah. And those comments tell a lot. I travel a lot. I get a lot of comments about that. It is interesting the layers of assumptions or gender norms or bias that are really, really deeply embedded that we have to continue to question and push back on. To your point, without being combative, like I get what you're saying about meeting people halfway, but there's a fine line between you don't want to tolerate or exacerbate things that are really outdated, unnecessary, inaccurate. Unfortunately, it's a reality that particularly as a woman, if you stand up to it, then you can be seen as abrasive or argumentative. Do you know what I mean?

Corrie - 00:19:07:

That's right. Oh, I've been caught on those things.

Sarah - 00:19:09:

Damned if you do and damned if you don't. In a lot of ways. And it is tricky. For sure. The next phase that you talked about was your thriving and advancing phase. Talk a bit about that.

Corrie - 00:19:19:

This part of my career is I, you know, I got this big opportunity that I talked about. First promotion. It was a big deal. And I got this new leader. And it just really turned out to be a great experience. And first of all, he was brilliant and just a really excellent, excellent leader. He had proven himself as a sales manager. This was his first time as a general manager. I was new in this role that we got to define really for ourselves. And he really took the opportunity to help and mentor me, not only be my boss, but also to mentor me. He encouraged me to go get my MBA. He was working on his MBA. He said, you know, I should go get an MBA. I think it would really help you. And did that nights and weekends working on my MBA. And then he also he pulled me in to a lot of opportunities that some things that I probably wouldn't have known about. In that role and most of the places that people serve that role. He let me help with the strategy and really help set the strategy for the business, which is still very young. A young person was just an incredible opportunity. He was an incredible boss. He was not there that long. He actually left, didn't leave the company, but moved to her, to the next big role for him. And then we moved apart. I moved to Milwaukee to take on a job here. And he would eventually come to Milwaukee. And actually, I would work for someone who worked for him. And I was working part-time. Little known fact about my career. I actually worked part-time for four years, which was a real novelty at the time when I did it. My kids were little. I worked part-time. And I was ready to come back full-time. Yeah, I was done working on Project Word. I was ready to get back on the train of career advancement. I was ready to get back into things that I love to do. And so I called him up and I said, hey, do you have anything for me? Because I really I'm ready to get back on the track. I'm ready for a director role. And he goes, oh, yeah, yeah, I've got the perfect job for you. I didn't think you know, I didn't think you wanted you were ready to come back. He says, you're ready. I got it. This job is exactly what you did in Albany or in Connecticut. But what I need you to do is for this business, which Connecticut was a $50 million business. And this is $2 billion. So, you know, not a big deal. Just he made it sound really easy. And so I took the job. And again, just a fantastic opportunity. So started with what the job was. And really, it was a tenuous improvement, similar to the quality manager. But I did that for a little while. Built out the program from scratch for our business. And then actually expanded my role to take on more businesses within the company. Working with the Latin America team, which was such a great opportunity. And then he got me mentoring with his VP of Ops. And I spent a lot of time with him. You know, was in meetings. Again, this is where it's so deliberate when you want to. And this is something it's not like it only happens for diverse people or women. I mean, that's what men did for men over the years just naturally, right? Invited them to meetings that they didn't necessarily belong in. Giving them an opportunity to have voice. And that's, again, what both of these men did for me was brought me along to things. Showed me information. Asked me what I would do. Talked about what the steps were. I got the opportunity to really learn what those jobs were. And that job was my next job. I want that VP of Ops job. And that's what happened. And then, you know, continued to move through different parts of the business. Getting opportunities for bigger teams. I was primarily, you know, early career and more of an influencer role. At some points, I had some small teams. But for the most part, I was in just more of an influencer role. And in these jobs, I had real responsibility. Real P&L responsibility. Real large downlines of people who were working for me. And it was wonderful to be able to have that opportunity. And to be able to do so many different jobs at one company. That was the other thing. That was great. But I will tell you, all of those moves, even once my primary sponsor was moved into another business, but still part of the overall leadership team of Johnson Controls, he still sponsored me through those moves. And recommended me. And what helps me today, recommended me. Has recommended me for many jobs. And has provided support as well as I've moved through transitions. When I transitioned out of Johnson Controls, a big change was there to help me through that transition. And really understand what I needed to do to be successful. And I just, that to me was, I say this, I do owe my career to him. I really do. If he hadn't, again, we talked about that intersection of preparation and opportunity. I'm not saying I didn't do hard work or I wasn't smart. Yeah, you can have all of those things. You can work hard. You can be smart. You can have all the right education. You can read all the right books. All of those things. But if you don't have an opportunity that is put in front of you, you won't get there. And he helped to put those opportunities in front of me. And I feel like I made the most of them every single time. I really tried to make the most of it. But he did. He put those opportunities in front of me. And so I say I owe my career to him. And it's not... He would totally deny it. Just so you know. He would say the opposite. But to me, it really takes being really deliberate. And he was super deliberate about what he was doing for me. And I will tell you, he was mentored and sponsored by someone who did that for him. And I wasn't the only person that he did this for. There's a countless number of leaders out in the world. And field services today that owe their careers to this man. Yeah.

Sarah - 00:24:43:

Can you talk a little bit about what made him such an impactful sponsor and how that would be different than him being a mentor?

Corrie - 00:24:54:

I think of the function of a mentor, like they can help you. Yeah, I talked about Ralph in my early, early career. I mean, he showed me what the job was. He taught me how to do the job. He also helped me with the political landscape of the organization. Mentors can help you with what is your job and how do you do it. They can help you with the political landscape of an organization. They can help you with development planning around how to get to the next role that you want. I think those are probably the primary functions of a mentor. When you think about a sponsor, a sponsor is when you're not in the room, the sponsor's talking about you. That's a totally different thing. That means they have to know your work. If you mentor someone, you can say, yes, I've mentored this person. I see they have a lot of potential. But if you haven't actually seen their work, you haven't actually worked with them, the totally different situation. When you've worked with them and you know what they can do, you have the ability to sponsor them. So I think that what he did for me is he knew my work as well as knew who I was as a person and was able to be that person in the room when I wasn't there. And I've had many of these folks in my life. It wasn't just one, but they were there and they said, hey, I know that she can do this job because I've seen her do this, this, and this. And when people make assumptions, which happens to everyone, but particularly about women, about their ability to relocate, what their obligations are to their children, all of those things that people make assumptions are, well, she's got four kids. And even if that wasn't the case, that's not really a point here. She gets to decide if this is the right job for her or not. We don't decide that for her. So I think that those are some of the things that he did. And he also was realistic with me around what I could do and when it was time and when it wasn't time. And those conversations were harder than the conversations about, hey, this is this great thing that you should go do. There were also conversations like, I know you want it, but you need to do these things before you can have it. And I think that being realistic about that is also super important.

Sarah - 00:26:52:

Yeah. You talked about. That person's impact, when you think about the preparation and the hard work on your side, what do you point to in terms of what within yourself helped you be able to meet that opportunity and continue to progress?

Corrie - 00:27:09:

Yeah, I think the biggest thing is that early career, being willing to do just about anything anybody asks you to do, right? And I think that you do an early career, there's a lot of things that come up. Training, there's opportunities like this quality assurance manager, but then also when we went through the Six Sigma program, I said, well, sign me up. I want to do it. And when I took on the continuous improvement manager role that he helped me with later, I remember talking to one of my colleagues as at the copy machine. I'm like, oh, I think I'm going to take on this role. And he says, oh, it's just a fad. He says, I wouldn't do that. It's just kind of like, well, I don't really have anything to lose, right? So I kind of, you know what? I think I'll take it on. And all of those things over the years, being willing to kind of do things that are maybe a little bit risky and a little bit more uncomfortable is certainly part of my personality. I'm willing to try something new. I like to try new things. That was good. I think also just working hard. I talk to young folks as they're coming out a lot about you've got to put in the hours. I put in a lot of hours. When I was an application engineer, I wasn't paid hourly. I had a salary. But I put in a lot of hours. And I did it for me because I wanted to learn. And I knew I was slow. Like I knew I was new and I needed to learn these things. And I put in a ton of hours. And I put in a lot of hours outside of the office in every job that I've had around reading books around leadership, going through articles, learning more, and bringing something to the table. And I think that those are things and having a voice, too. And I think that that was Sheryl Sandberg and the lean in. And I know there's controversy around that. But what she tells women to do is to speak up when you're in the room. And if you get a seat at the table, say something. Don't just sit there. You know, it's something that I did and that the successful women that saw around me did as well is when you find something. Even if you're not sure if it's relevant, find something to engage in the conversation because you're not there to just sit there. You're there to be a part of the conversation. And I was very bold as a young person. I was very bold about those types of things.

Sarah - 00:29:15:

The third part of your journey that you talked about is giving back. What does this mean to you and what has it looked like so far?

Corrie - 00:29:23:

Yeah, I think the first opportunity for giving back for me was they started a women's resource network at Johnson Controls and they asked for mentors as part of that program. And I was thinking, I need a mentor. And then I'm reading description that says, hey, you have to have 10 years of experience and this is what a mentor looks like. I'm like, wait, well, I have all that. I guess I can be a mentor, right? And it was my first time really formally being somebody's mentor and it was a great experience. I mean, it was more of a, hey, how do you work the political landscape? And it wasn't even how do you do your job? Because this person was in a totally different function than I didn't know. But it was more around, how do I deal with my boss? How do I deal with these challenges that I'm having? Also, how do I balance out my work and my life and all of those things? But it was a great experience for me. And I think realizing sometimes I think we sell ourselves short as women. We don't think about, oh, well, I'm ready to do this, right? We think we need more time. And that was the first opportunity for me to be a mentor. And then people would come up to me and say, hey, you're in this job. Will you help mentor this person? I have a young woman on my team. She's struggling. She needs help. I don't know what to do, right? Male bosses primarily, which meant a lot to me because first of all, they recognize they have a gap in how they're dealing with it and they need support and ask you need to do that. I have mentored many women over the years. And I will tell you sometimes those as you get older, those relationships can reverse too. And I have people that I mentored years ago, that now they act as it's so mutual and always was, but it is now it's more, sometimes I need them. Hey, what do you think about this? Right? I need your mentorship. I had a good friend and colleague, somebody I mentored just, we were texting back and forth last night and it was just exactly what I needed. I was just like, I need a little bit of a boost. And they can provide that as well. For the mentor, you get as much out of it as the mentee. We also, we launched together with several of my other female colleagues and our sponsor, we launched the Women's Field Resource Network, which was new. So Johnson & Jules had it, the headquarters had this resource network, but they didn't have a field, a Women's Field Network. And so we launched that and got that going and worked with those teams. I've done leadership classes for women in the organization. Anytime somebody asked me to come and talk to their team, if it was about my business or it was about my career, I always said yes and found the time. And I do that having opportunities even like this with you. This is meaningful to me. And so that's the kind of thing that I think you have to give back. You also have to be deliberate too about recognizing women and pulling them up. I also did that. And sometimes people look at you like, well, wait, how did that happen? Because I thought, wait, well, she's been getting ready for this job for years. We've been working together and getting her ready. It's like the most logical step, right? Those things, being very deliberate about that and pulling other women up, other people of color, a very big part of what I've done over the years. Now, look, I will tell you, it's not enough. I wish that I could do more. And I've made mistakes along the way too. I mean, I don't think that I've always recognized the abilities of every person that you see. I'm not as imperfect as anyone else. It is a very important part of who I am.

Sarah - 00:32:38:

Yeah. No, I love that. And I think it's good to acknowledge that it hasn't been enough, but also those, I don't want to say small acts because they're not small, but those individual efforts, if everyone's doing them collectively add up to something big. And the second thing is, I think it's also very humble to own that you haven't been perfect in your mission to give back. One, that's human, but two, I mean, doing it imperfectly is better than not doing it at all.

Corrie - 00:33:09:

And being able to recognize

Sarah - 00:33:11:

when you have fumbled and learn from it and fix it and do better the next time is all anyone could ask. I think that's great.

Corrie - 00:33:21:

One of those things, you don't even necessarily have to fully act. Just being there sometimes is enough. And I talked about that in my speech as well, the power of representation. Sometimes just being there and being good at your job is enough for someone to say, wow, I can do that, because I see that there's a woman there that is doing the job that I want. And I didn't think that was possible because over the years, all I've ever seen is bad. So the power of representation, I think it's just a really important part of that. You don't have to necessarily act to be representative, right? You can just be really good at your job and it does help for people to see that there's someone who can do it too.

Sarah - 00:34:02:

Yeah, absolutely. You said, ask for what you want. And when you get it, make the most of it and give back along the way. I love that statement. And my question is, what advice do you have for people, specifically women, on how best to ask for what you want?

Corrie - 00:34:19:

I will tell you, I learned this from my father. My father used to say, if you don't ask, you don't get. But he would always say that to me. You need to go ask for this. It can be off-putting to people sometimes, right? It's like, whoa, wait. And I remember this was in college. I was working in the computer labs and I wanted to be a supervisor in the computer lab. They had an opening. And I went to my boss and I said, I really would like to be a supervisor in lab. And he goes. Oh, he says, well, I guess I would have preferred to ask you to be a supervisor in the lab rather than you ask and say, well, my dad always said, you don't ask, you don't get, right? I always remember that. And I try not to make that a limit me. I think you have to ask for it. I asked for the first promotion. I asked for a job I had no business applying for, found a path to get there. I asked to get out of the game. I asked to get back in the game. And I would say up until probably, I would say, you know, getting into like that first VP of ops role, every one of those was an ask. Everything that I got was an ask. And then I asked to do something more. And then we found something out in a different part of the business that I got to go do, which was really cool. And I think when you hear about the careers of others, sometimes it's like, well, I never asked for a thing. I just got recognized and pulled up. I really think if you are underrepresented in the organization, you're going to have to ask and you can't expect to be just recognized and pulled up. It will happen, for some people, it will. I might, as a woman, I might recognize another woman that I see has potential. Or as a man, I might see that. Or if you're African-American, you might say, okay, well, I see that person. But you might not see the people across. And so I just think that it's important that we ask for what we want. And then once you get it, you can't regret what you asked for. You got to be there. You got to show up and you got to perform. And that's how you show, hey, this was the right decision. And I'm not saying it always has to work out perfectly. But you have to make the effort. It's not if you're given an opportunity, ask for an opportunity, you're given an opportunity, you've earned it. Now you've got to continue to earn it along the way.

Sarah - 00:36:19:

That's what I was thinking when you were saying that. I was thinking, we don't have time to get into, some of the things that I'm appreciating so much about what you're saying, because it's reminding me of points in my own journey that I have been bold and outspoken and I've asked for what I wanted or needed or felt was fair and have had really hard conversations. And I think the one thing is, I think that it's not always welcome, but I think that there is a growing percentage of individuals and cultures where it is welcome. One, it's okay to be uncomfortable. Like, it might not be welcome, but to your point, when he said that to you and you said, well, my dad said the moment of discomfort that ultimately got you where you wanted to go, right? So that's one. But the second thing is, I think if you really hit a wall, go somewhere else. That's not the only path. And there are more and more people that are understanding that it's important to speak up and speak out. And advocate for yourself. That being said, I was going to say the point you made, which is. Don't ask for things you can't handle or aren't ready for or aren't willing to take on because-

Corrie - 00:37:35:

That's right.

Sarah - 00:37:35:

That's when you make a fool of yourself. Like you said, doesn't need to be perfect. Doesn't mean you have it all figured out. It doesn't mean that you are 1000% qualified, et cetera, et cetera. But it means that. If you're going to take that risk, be ready to back it up with the work that is going to prove that you were worth it. What would you say about the importance of authenticity?

Corrie - 00:38:00:

Well, I think that goes back to that assimilation versus, you know, really true inclusion and being your authentic self is a part of that. But I think it's also like you can't be somewhat different at work than you are at home. Some people do. I mean, I know people who do this. They're very different at work than they are at home. But it's not you're never going to be as effective as somebody who is who they are at work or at home. And I have many friends that cross that work boundary right over the years. And I am the same person. You always have a filter when you're at work. You have to have a filter, right, of some of the things that you can and can't do. But I mean, I am that same person I am at home and took time. It wasn't on day one. I told you I assimilated, right? I am that person. And people know who I really am. And that's the power of what you can do to lead a team that believes that you are telling them the truth and believes you're being authentic is super powerful. They will follow you. They will follow you anywhere. The biggest compliment that I've ever received is that I was an authentic leader and that I made a difference because of that, because I care. I am who I am. I wear my heart on my sleeve. I am absolutely feel that you have to truly care for the people that work for you in order for your business to be successful. And to me, that is authenticity for me. Are there things that I would do if I wasn't in corporate America? I don't know. I mean, would I dye my hair blue? I might. Would I dress like a rocker? I don't know. But I think for the most part, I'm a pretty authentic person. And I think that people need to need to understand that if they do that. People will follow them and will listen to them and will believe even if they aren't sure. It helps to take the uncertainty out because, look, if she's telling me this, I know she truly believes it and she cares enough that she's going to have my back. And I think that's probably the second biggest compliment I ever got as a leader was when one of my employees told me that I felt like I had the freedom to fail when I worked for you because I knew you had my back. And of course, didn't fail because she's amazing. But she felt she was willing to take risks. And I will tell you, that's how I was as well as I knew that I had someone who was going to be there if I needed support or I needed help, I could go and ask, right? And it wasn't going to be embarrassment or like I wasn't doing my job. And that is powerful stuff. It really is. And to have experienced it and to give it back is powerful stuff.

Sarah - 00:40:34:

Yeah. Speaking of powerful stuff, what about the power of saying no?

Corrie - 00:40:39:

Look, there are things that, you know, in the world of ask, and sometimes you get asked to do things. There are times that I talked a lot about being willing to take risks and do things that maybe other people weren't interested in. There are some times where you get asked to do a job and it is not right for you. And this happened to me mid-career. I had a leader, very well-respected leader, asked me to do a job on his team. I had just finished our accelerated leader development program. I was, you know, ready for the next move. And that move was not right for me. And I appreciated him asking me. He had kind of heard, hey, I was good. I don't know exactly why he thought I would be good at that particular job, but it just wasn't the right move for me. It wasn't, first of all, it wasn't on the right path. And it also wasn't something that, it wasn't something that helped me to build out any part of my skill set that I didn't already have. And it probably wasn't in a strength area where I could have really like blown it out of the water right I didn't really feel like it was that that's how much of a disconnect there was to the point that I was even questioning did he read my resume you know and it was an honor to be asked I mean such a great leader and I still tons of respect for him today but it wasn't right for me and I said no and I talked to my friend in HR and I said hey you know I told him no and she looked at me said are you crazy? She said, nobody's ever told him no before. And I said well, It wasn't right for me. I appreciate the opportunity, but it wasn't right for me. Now, those things, sometimes saying no to the wrong opportunity, yeah, can have implications. But if it did, like you said, you just go somewhere else, right? I mean, there's always a place that wants you.

Sarah - 00:42:14:

It's part of being authentic, right? Because you're being true to yourself. You know that it's not right. You're not going to do something just because of X, Y, or Z reasons. You're going to stay true to who you are. And I think the other thing, at least I've found, again, not universally, but there are people who have always been told yes, that when they have someone willing to respectfully and with reason say no, they respect that more because they're not often challenged. And I think whether it's a job offer or. Something you're working on strategy-wise or whatever it is, if you can get comfortable enough in your skin to speak your mind, to your point, that's where people start to notice your value, right? If you sit back and say like, oh, well, no one tells him no, so I'll just nod my head and smile. He might've been taking a bath, but he was like, good for her.

Corrie - 00:43:12:

And I think the other thing is like, you talked about make sure you have the capacity to do whatever you ask to do, right? Also, if you say yes to everything and then you're not effective at anything, that's really bad too. And I think that you have to think about that and things that you're doing inside and outside of work is how much can you really handle and be really good at? Because if you're kind of good at 10 things at a time, that might not be quite as good as being really super good at these three high priorities. And so I think that's a part of learning how to say no, which is really, really hard when you want to make your mark.

Sarah - 00:43:50:

I want to close with one final question, but two parts to it. Okay, so I want you to close with your best piece of advice. Number one, for a person just starting out in their career, particularly someone who is in any minority group, the advice you would give them. And then the second would be for a leader looking to have a more positive impact on the talent coming into their organization, particularly as it relates to inclusiveness and sponsorship and things like that that we've talked about today.

Corrie - 00:44:25:

Yeah, I think for up-and-coming people, my advice has been pretty much the same throughout my career. I mean, the first thing is that you have to work hard. And I know that sounds simple or maybe even a little bit patronized, but it's true. Like you have to put the work in. You have got to work hard, got to spend the hours. You've got to take the time and you're going to be out of balance early career. For most people, this is a good time to be out of balance because you don't have as many responsibilities as you do as you get into mid-career. Early on, you've got to put in the work and you have to put in the work. Not only you have to put in the work on the work that you do, but you have to put in the work on the social aspect of work as well. You have to meet people. You have to put yourself out there. You have to get involved in things that might be a little bit outside of what your core competency is when you came out of school. You've got to do those things. And if you do that and you take a little bit of risk, then you're going to get to that intersection of luck and opportunity. I really believe that. If you put yourself out there, you get to know more people. If you know more people, there's more opportunity for those folks to cross your path and help you with your career.

Sarah - 00:45:31:

If I reflect back on my younger years, also do the work on yourself, right? So while you're doing the work, learn from it. What lights you up? What makes you excited? What do you feel you're doing where you are proud of the impact you're making? What things stress you out in a way that isn't normal stress, but maybe an inclination that this isn't something that is going to fulfill me? Or what are you confident about what do you need to build confidence in? Things like that, right? Because in those early phases, you're learning about the environment and you're learning about how to progress, but you're also in, you're learning so much about who you are as a person and what your unique value is. And the more you can... Take note of those things to hone in on what... Unique skills and qualities you bring, the more success you can have, you know, looking for those opportunities to be bold and to ask for what you want with confidence.

Corrie - 00:46:36:

Yeah, I think that's, and I, you know, talked about early being computer savvy. I mean, when I first walked to the office at Albany, my boss would type up a memo in what was called WordPad before Microsoft Word, right? He'd type up this memo and then he would print it out and give it to the admin and she would type it on letterhead. It was on the computer. It could have been printed on letterhead, but it was like, it was one of those things, or they could, she, we had email. He could have emailed it. He could have walked it over with a disc. Like there were so many different ways you could have done this other than, you know, something that was complete. And those were the kinds of things that I thought, well. That was obvious to me, but it was something I could bring to the table and help to get that office to be more efficient. So I do think that's important, even those little learnings help you. And I did do a lot of, and I'm sure you did too early on, is you do a lot of reading and a lot of classes, the cubby classes and those types of things that really help you get a little bit more introspective about yourself and being willing to have 360s and take the feedback and know who you are. I certainly know what my key weaknesses were when I started and what I've worked on, and what anchors I've gotten in my boat on those things, and what things I still have to every day be conscious about, right? Because we're all human.

Sarah - 00:47:50:

Yeah. Great.

Corrie - 00:47:51:

We asked about readers and what they can do. And I think the biggest act of being very deliberate is, and this is people of color, women, but also men or people who just have a little different personality style. You've got more than likely the people you've surrounded yourself with are super smart. But typically when you're in a meeting with say, 6 to 10 people, there's probably the boss and maybe two other people that are really contributing to the conversation. And as a leader, pulling the rest of the team out and into the conversation and being very deliberate about that. And also recognizing when someone is getting stepped on and they're not being heard, right? And if you really want to create an inclusive environment overall for all of your employees, regardless of what their status is or what their background is. Is really making sure that you're pulling people out and it takes effort and it is exhausting sometimes because you're trying to get through something. You're trying to get to an, you want to get to the end, right? You're in this meeting. You want to get to the end. You want to get to the conclusion and you've got all these things on your plate that you're trying to work through, but you've got to do that. And if you can't do it, you need to tell one of those people that's always speaking up in the room to help you with it. And that will help as well. I've actually had people do that for me to say, hey, can you make sure that we're drawing? So-and-so, because I know they have something to say. And so to me, if I had to give like, I mean, if it was one thing that you could do differently today that you're not doing, it's that it's really pulling people in. And when you see it happening, if you're a peer or a leader, make sure that you're saying, hey, wait a second. I think that person had something to say, or I think, you know, you cut them off.

Sarah - 00:49:30:

Or just what do you think, right? You know, maybe they're not getting cut off, but they're fearful of speaking up and you can encourage that. Yeah.

Corrie - 00:49:38:

Yeah.

Sarah - 00:49:38:

Really good advice. Corrie, thank you so much. This is been wonderful. I really appreciate you coming and sharing more about your personal journey, but also extracting some of those insights that others can take and learn from. Thank you so much for spending some time with me.

Corrie - 00:49:55:

Well, thank you. I appreciate the opportunity and look forward to chatting again. I want to hear your story too.

Sarah - 00:50:00:

That would be great.

Corrie - 00:50:01:

All right. All right. Take care.

Sarah - 00:50:03:

Corrie - 00:19:07:

That's right. Oh, I've been caught on those things.

Sarah - 00:19:09:

Damned if you do and damned if you don't. In a lot of ways. And it is tricky. For sure. The next phase that you talked about was your thriving and advancing phase. Talk a bit about that.

Corrie - 00:19:19:

Sarah - 00:24:43:

Can you talk a little bit about what made him such an impactful sponsor and how that would be different than him being a mentor?

Corrie - 00:24:54:

Sarah - 00:26:52:

Corrie - 00:27:09:

Sarah - 00:29:15:

The third part of your journey that you talked about is giving back. What does this mean to you and what has it looked like so far?

Corrie - 00:29:23:

Sarah - 00:32:38:

Corrie - 00:33:09:

And being able to recognize

Sarah - 00:33:11:

when you have fumbled and learn from it and fix it and do better the next time is all anyone could ask. I think that's great.

Corrie - 00:33:21:

Sarah - 00:34:02:

Corrie - 00:34:19:

Sarah - 00:36:19:

Corrie - 00:37:35:

That's right.

Sarah - 00:37:35:

Corrie - 00:38:00:

Sarah - 00:40:34:

Yeah. Speaking of powerful stuff, what about the power of saying no?

Corrie - 00:40:39:

Sarah - 00:42:14:

Corrie - 00:43:12:

Sarah - 00:43:50:

Corrie - 00:44:25:

Sarah - 00:45:31:

Corrie - 00:46:36:

Sarah - 00:47:50:

Yeah. Great.

Corrie - 00:47:51:

Sarah - 00:49:30:

Or just what do you think, right? You know, maybe they're not getting cut off, but they're fearful of speaking up and you can encourage that. Yeah.

Corrie - 00:49:38:

Yeah.

Sarah - 00:49:38:

Corrie - 00:49:55:

Well, thank you. I appreciate the opportunity and look forward to chatting again. I want to hear your story too.

Sarah - 00:50:00:

That would be great.

Corrie - 00:50:01:

All right. All right. Take care.

Sarah - 00:50:03:

You too. You can find more by visiting the home of the UNSCRIPTED podcast at futureoffieldservice.com. The podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more at ifs.com. As always, thank you for listening.

Last week we announced Future of Field Service’s Stand Out 50 Leadership Awards, and I couldn’t be more excited for the opportunity to acknowledge and recognize some of the amazing individuals leading their service organizations, teams, and customers to success. For more than 16 years I’ve been fortunate to speak with service leaders on nearly a daily basis, for articles, events, and podcasts, and those interactions have given me a tremendous appreciation for the tall task they have taken on.

All service leaders work incredibly hard, in my opinion, so what makes a leader stand out? There are, of course, many things that could set a leader apart which is why nominations will allow for an explanation of how each leader is going above and beyond to make an impact. With that said, when I think of what makes a service leader stand out, there are a few things that quickly come to mind:

They don’t sacrifice innovation to meet immediate needs. It’s a balancing act, for sure – but stand out leaders have found the formula for balancing today’s business needs with reserving time, energy, and resources to create the business of tomorrow. They aren’t short sighted, they see the potential of service, and they work toward the long-term strategy while maintaining today’s successful business.
They evangelize the importance of service within their businesses. They have conviction around service’s unique ability to create differentiation, build customer loyalty, offer a brand experience like none other, and grow revenue – and they work tirelessly to ensure this conviction is understood and ultimately shared across the business.
They are bold. They think outside of the box; they free themselves from the confines of the status quo. They challenge “the way it’s always been done,” to look for ways to do it better, or do it altogether differently. They aren’t afraid to share wild ideas or to fail forward, and they empower their teams to do the same. They know that creating the future of service demands leaders who will carve a new path, and they are up for the job.
They put their teams first, because they care and because they know doing so will create the best customer experience. They recognize the immense knowledge of the frontline workforce and the impact those teams have on the customer, and they know that doing everything they can to enable, empower, and nurture their teams will pay dividends when it comes to employee engagement and retention, customer outcomes and, ultimately, business success.
They prioritize customer intimacy. They know that innovation must happen from the outside-in, and to advance services in any meaningful way requires not only a deep understanding of a customers wants and needs, but also of their business. They find multiple avenues to listen and take action on customer input and feedback and ensure their teams do the same.
They harness the power of modern technology. They realize that in today’s service landscape, it is essential to work smarter not harder. They are embracing sophisticated capabilities in a practical way, looking for opportunities to optimize the use of their resources, excel at meeting (or even anticipate) customer needs, and adopt capabilities that reduce unnecessary waiting, travel, and inefficiencies.
They focus on creating inclusive environments. They aren’t interested in increasing diversity as a check-box exercise, but they truly value having a range of experiences, skills, opinions, and perspectives on their team – and they know the best way to benefit from a diverse team is to create an inclusive environment that welcomes the voice of all, celebrates contributions, and works together toward a common goal.
They are authentic. They know that being genuine and empathetic is needed to connect with their teams as human beings and to form relationships that are mutually beneficial. They find ways to show up as their whole selves at work that feel honest, comfortable, and valuable.
They are humble. They know that the days of the leader being the smartest person in the room are a thing of the past; success in today’s landscape requires a team of individuals skilled in different areas who come together to solve problems and realize opportunities. They focus on curating and amplifying skilled teams, being sure to provide leadership but never taking individual credit for collective wins.
They are continually learning and growing. They know that as fast as the business changes, they must evolve too. They find ways to expand their knowledge, mindset, and viewpoints to stay relevant and impactful – in their industries and in their leadership roles.

What would you add to this list? I’m curious! I’m also hopeful you’ll take a few moments to nominate a service leader you feel stands out. This could be someone who has led you who you feel had a massive impact, someone on your team you feel has tremendous potential, or a peer you see working hard to advance their industry; nominate whomever you feel is deserving here: https://www.futureoffieldservice.com/stand-out-50/

Nominations close on July 15^th and then judges will deliberate. Judges include myself, Dot Mynahan who spent more than 30 years in service leadership at Otis Elevator, John Carroll of The Service Council, and Tim Baines of The Advanced Services Group. The Stand Out 50 will be officially announced as Future of Field Service Live joins forces with IFS Unleashed in Orlando this October. It will be a celebration not to be missed!

I recently recorded a podcast with Stuart Thompson, President of Electrification Service Division at ABB, to discuss how the company is using augmented reality (AR) and artificial intelligence (AI) for its field service operations.

We've been talking about using AR and/or virtual reality (VR) for service for a while now, but until the COVID-19 pandemic take-up of the technology seemed slow. While it seemed there were some viable use cases for field service, factors such as connectivity, cost, and change management kept adoption minimal. Things changed when the pandemic forced everyone to look for some type of remote technology for just about everything, including troubleshooting and training. A lot of companies quickly began experimenting with AR and VR for service and other industrial applications, and four years later we are starting to see the fruits of that experimentation.

When you consider some of the AR-related items in the news, I think they tie in well with that pandemic-inspired push to use AR/VR, as well as what ABB had to say about it.

While we normally think about AR/VR for service, it can be used in a lot of other applications that touch service, even peripherally, including computer aided design (CAD). A lot of manufacturers are trying to tie their service data back into the design process so insights from the field can help improve future product designs. One of the companies leading that charge has been Siemens, which (among other things) sells CAD software. The company just demonstrated a VR-based system developed with Sony that will allow engineers and designers to actually do some of their design work using AR and VR.

The other story was about a hydraulic pump manufacturer called Permco that faced a lot of challenges during the pandemic. The company's pumps require hand assembly at the factory, and new hires typically went through a lengthy in-person training process to learn how to build the pumps. The pandemic made that type of training impossible, but a software developer working for the company came up with a fix – a VR solution that lets trainees learn to assemble pumps using a headset, internally developed software, and data from their CAD models. New employees can assemble pumps hundreds of times in VR before they ever touch the physical pump. They’re even adding haptic gloves, so trainees can “feel” the parts they are working with.

AR Aids in Labor Challenges

While that's an assembly application, you can pretty easily see how that type of system could help under-staffed service companies make repair training faster and less labor-intensive. Even if using AR/VR at a job site might not be a workable solution for service techs, virtual repair training could be a big boost for an industry that doesn't have enough seasoned technicians to go around when it comes to on-the-job training/mentoring.

Which brings me back to ABB. Like Permco, the company turned to augmented reality because COVID made some in-person activities impossible. According to Stuart, a large project in China that required complex remote training was what finally pushed ABB to deploy AR into the field. After looking for some wearable devices that were practical for technicians to use, they shipped the units to China to help with training.

“[The] Chinese engineers were already trained in basic electrical infrastructure and systems. However, they might not have had the deep domain expertise on the particular piece of equipment they were working on,” he said. “We could then through wearable devices project onto the equipment and we could have engineers sitting in the U.S. … guiding them verbally and visually on the priorities and what to do and what not to do. [T]hey were able to communicate in English and then the tools were translated into Chinese for the field engineers.”

A short time later, they were able to do the same thing by connecting technicians in Germany with their counterparts working in a mine in Chile. “People were open to using it because they had no other choice at that point in time,” he said. “And we usually find in times of crisis like this, technology can move extremely quickly and people become much more open and adapt to using it.”

For service, of course, deploying AR for training technicians or helping remote techs work through a problem can represent a major change in workflow for organizations. But if it means saving several days of travel and/or struggling with translators when every minute of downtime counts, the investment is going to be worth it for a lot of companies.

We covered a lot of ground during our conversation (including how ABB is using artificial intelligence along with AR), so you should check out the entire podcast.

Have you found any good, practical uses for AR/VR in service? I would love to hear about them.

Last week I landed in sunny Palm Springs for my umpteenth WBR Field Service event (truly, I’ve lost count). This event is a pleasure each year – there are so many friendly faces that it’s wonderful to see, and new faces join in each year as the industry grows and evolves.

This writeup isn’t meant to be a formal review or a complete synopsis of the event, rather a summary of what stood out to me as someone who covers the space weekly and has attended the event over more than a decade. There was a much wider variety of topics covered than what I’ll touch on here, and some points on which I plan to expand in upcoming articles.

Now going into the event, I fully expected ample AI coverage – more like aggressive if I’m being honest. And I wasn’t wrong; AI was one of the cornerstone topics of the event. As it should be, given the exciting advancements in technology and the real-world applications driving value for service organizations. What pleasantly surprised me, however, was how well-balanced the AI discussions were with points about the criticality of employee engagement, empowerment, and effective leadership.

AI Everywhere

While some of the sessions seemed to force the AI narrative, there were plenty of actionable discussions and practical advice. One of my favorite statements around the topic was, “there’s no killer app, only a killer use case.” When it comes to AI and all of its buzz, this is important to remember – the reason to invest in the technology isn’t because it’s all the rage but because it solves a challenge within your business.

Moreover, investing in AI doesn’t demand a revolutionary approach – it can be an evolution of how you further derive value from systems in place. In a panel on Best (and Worst) Use Cases for AI, examples of this were shared such as improving chat bot functionality in customer service or adding ease and automation to a technician’s knowledge resources while on site with a customer. During this panel the speakers, Haroon Abbu of Bell & Howell and Jessica Murillo of IBM, also worked to dispel myths about AI. These included easing concerns that AI is meant to replace people, remembering that AI isn’t always right and false trust is risky, and pointing out that AI isn’t only for large companies; it’s accessible to all.

Practical advice was shared across that panel discussion and others: understanding there’s real work around data readiness underneath all the hype and ignoring this keeps initiatives from fruition. Focus early efforts on identifying where techs are being bogged down or spending a lot of time and looking for ways to – in bite size chunks – apply AI to create ease. Words of caution reminding attendees that, if you aren’t pushing the envelope – you’ll fail. And emphasizing the absolute criticality of diversity – in data and in talent – when looking to make use of today’s AI capabilities.

People at the Center

As I stated, I was expecting major AI buzz. But what I wasn’t expecting was just how many sessions were leaders speaking about how important our focus on people is (and I couldn’t agree more). In the opening keynote, Alban Cambournac of Schneider Electric set the stage by discussing how employee engagement drives customer satisfaction. His message was echoed and reinforced over the next three days.

This included acknowledgement of cultural differences and discussion around how best to navigate this. Joe Lang of Comfort Systems spoke about the difference between technology adoption (implementation of a good idea) versus utilization (following orders) and why that difference matters so much.

Adam Gloss of McKinstry delivered a wonderful keynote on day two of the event, showcasing the differences between a people-first culture and one that isn’t. He spoke about how trust, teamwork, and inclusion increase a workforce’s capacity for change, and how that capacity for change spurs companies ahead of the competition.

There was a panel of young talent speaking about what the industry needs to consider as it develops future leaders, which the moderator summarized by saying that building the next generation of leaders “doesn’t require new tricks but requires a mindful approach that’s curated to the individual. That’s always been the right thing, but it hasn’t always been crucial to do.”

Corrie Prunuske and Roy Dockery gave a keynote double-header on diversity and inclusion, in which Corrie shared a lot of her personal journey and lessons learned and Roy shed light on some of the shortcomings in how companies recruit today that are holding them back from true diversity among their teams.

I was thrilled that the focus on humanity was just as strong as the focus on AI. The question was raised after one session that, “The systems are transforming – becoming more sophisticated. Are we?” I think this is an important question for both companies and leaders to be asking themselves, in relation to not only the customer value proposition and technology use, but also in what surrounds our people – engagement and empowerment, leadership, true diversity, and inclusive culture. Those that can’t strike the balance between both worlds, like the event did between these topics, will struggle.

Episode 264

Join host Sarah Nicastro in an unscripted podcast conversation with Stuart Thompson, President of Electrification service division at ABB, as they discuss how ABB is using augmented reality and artificial intelligence to revolutionize field service and enhance the customer experience. Discover how ABB adapted to the challenges of the COVID-19 pandemic, improved their AR and AI tools based on feedback, and their vision for the future of field service.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

Watch the podcast video here:

[00:00:06] Sarah: Welcome to the unscripted podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Today we are going to get an inside look at how a BB is using augmented reality and artificial intelligence to modernise field service and transform the customer experience. I'm excited to welcome to the podcast today, Stuart Thompson, who is the president for the Electrification service division at a BB Stewart, Welcome to the future of Field Service podcast.

[00:00:36] Stuart: Hey, Sarah. Nice to be here. Thank you.

[00:00:38] Sarah: Thanks for coming. So before we get into our topic for today, can you just tell everyone a little bit more about yourself? Your role? A BB? Anything you want to share?

[00:00:48] Stuart: Sure. Well, uh, you know, I'm AAA family man with, uh, with four kids, but, uh, at the same time, I lead electrification service for a BB. Uh, I've worked across four major, uh, global companies in the electrification industry. Um, probably the largest three were Alstom in France and the UK, uh, with GE. I was here in Australia, uh, China for quite a while and in the US. And for the last five years, I've been with a BB, um, electrification service. Uh, it's a a global organisation. we have nearly 3000 field engineers spread across 50 countries. Uh, we look after all kinds of electrification infrastructure from residential up to power plant. Um, from a customer segment standpoint, um, utilities and oil and gas are the largest customer group that we look after. We have the infrastructure also around mining, um, other critical infrastructures, data centres, and food and beverages growing quite quickly for us from a service perspective, Um, for a BB, uh, we're a large engineering firm. Uh, that looks after, you know, four key areas of business in electrification and automation. Uh, it's divided into four business areas of robotics. We're we're well known for robotics. Uh, we're known in the process automation industries in what we call motion, which is motors and drives primarily. And electrification is about half of a BB, uh, which is where we reside and and look after.

[00:02:28] Sarah: Hey. Excellent. You mentioned being a family man. Um, and that made me think I should share, uh, in case it becomes relevant that because of our time difference, it is evening here, which means my Children are home. So if any listeners hear any, um, you know, little boy energy in the background. I apologise in advance. Um so great, Stuart. So we're going to talk about, um, some of the ways that a BB is leveraging modern technology to really evolve service delivery, continue to modernise the customer, experience those sorts of things. But before we talk about how you're doing that, can you just sort of set the stage with a little bit of why you are doing that? So the factors that have led you to the point of, you know, the the journey that you're on today?

[00:03:21] Stuart: Yeah, Well, um, for us, everything really starts with the customer and the need around our customers in the field. Uh, I think we all experience that, uh, with digitization. There's a growing demand of instant support and faster support and, um, being closer to their sites and their assets, and in many cases, physically, that that's almost impossible. Um, so that that was one aspect. But the second aspect was I think many firms around the world are finding a labour shortage and and skills shortage, particularly in the electrical industry. With all this modernization of, um, electrification around the world, the growth in electrical industry versus oil and gas and others is significant, Um, especially as companies are trying to, uh, drive a more sustainable outcome. So you're seeing big movements in electrification. You're seeing extra demands in EV charging and other things around infrastructure, renewables, growth. So all of that is driving pressure on the industry and the growth in, um, you know, human power and capability to go and work in these areas. So customers are demanding more from us, but industry providing less and less workforce capability to go and serve that. So we had to look for alternatives A to help our workforce progress and grow, um, but also meet the needs and the expectations of customers. So they were the main two drivers, I would say that have helped us evolve and deploy our investments where we feel can achieve those results for us and our customers going for

[00:05:09] Sarah: Yeah, you know, it's an interesting, um, sort of dynamic of you have increased demand, but along with that, it's like you said, also increased expectations. You know, it's faster. It's more knowledge. It's, you know, all of these things, right? All while companies are struggling with, um, you know, finding talent but also the the redefining of what those roles look like, right. And in today's landscape. And, um, so, you know, fortunately, the technology is is, um you know, uh, sophisticated. Um, enough today to really play play a role here, but that's not to minimise. Um, the effort that comes in with, you know, changing the business processes accordingly, and and the offerings and then managing change and all of those things as well, which I'm sure we'll get into some of that. So you've sort of set the stage for, um What? Some of the the key variables are in where you are today. Can you tell us a little bit about you know, how you are turning to technologies like augmented reality and artificial intelligence to, you know, transform how you deliver a service?

[00:06:36] Stuart: Yeah, well, let me let me maybe go back a few years to a a time where, um covid was impacting a lot of the world, right? And we run a a global network of field service engineers. And one of the immediate challenges we had were getting people home as borders, closed flights, reduced et cetera, Uh, the first thing was the safety of our employees and getting them back home. But then the same challenge was happening for our customers that they need a global support. Some of these are multinational firms with facilities in the US, China and Europe, and they needed that support on a daily basis. Today we have about 100 engineers in the sky at any moment flying. Um, a lot of the work is domestically done, but we have international experts that travel in for very specialised application. And some of that challenge is keeping that know-how and knowledge, but also having a good work life balance for those field engineers. So they do get to spend time with their families at home. But we can also take that knowledge and scale that knowledge around the world. So during the times of covid, um, we had to a protect our people and get them home. Um, but they continue that service level to customers, and we've been working on augmented reality for a period of time. Uh, particularly in Europe, we've been doing design work. We've been doing factory acceptance tests of devices and products, uh, for customers which couldn't fly in internationally. Well, you had time constraints around visas and flight times and and travel. Um, so we've been doing it in a in a, um, in a in a safe sort of manufacturing environment. But not in the in the field. And we had a very large customer with a big commissioning project taking place in China. And obviously, that was one of the last countries people wanted to travel to during covid. Um, but also within China, there were a lot of restrictions as well. Um, so we took what was, uh, uh a a safe environment. And we deployed that to the field, and we went out to numerous vendors to find wearable devices and that that were applicable for field engineers to to wear that didn't get in the way, freed up their hands and their visual capabilities, but could also provide them with support and real time data and information at the site. Um, because there's a lot of pressure on that field engineer that the customer's demanding action. Um, and there's a lot of variabilities, but to have a team around you and supporting you while you're on that site, uh, was super important. Um, so we couldn't bring a lot of people in. We could ship assets and equipment. And so we were able to ship that in this case to China, and the Chinese engineers were already trained in basic electrical infrastructure and systems. However, they might not have had the deep domain expertise on the particular piece of equipment they were working on. And when they went in, we could then through, um, wearable devices, we could project onto the equipment and we could have engineers sitting in the US, in this case guiding them verbally and visually on the priorities and what to do and what not to do. Um, and they were able to communicate in English and that then the tools were translating into Chinese for the field engineers. So we weren't getting things also lost in interpretation and language. So we've been working on this for several years, but the acceleration that did for so many things even like the tools we're using today, um, it really gave us opportunity in the field. So we took that opportunity from the field and said, OK, could we use this more? And we ended up with another case with a mine down in Chile within a month after that exercise, and we were able to deploy it there. But this time it was between Germany and and, uh, Santiago that were doing that work. So we found a lot of functionality. People were open to using it because they had no other choice at that point in time. And we usually find in times of crisis like this, technology can move extremely quickly and people become much more open and adapt to using it. And customers become more friendly to the to the choice of the application. Because there was there was no other choice at that point. And as your infrastructure's down and not operating and you're losing millions of dollars a day in the chilly mine case, um, it was it was just absolutely essential to get it running but taken in by the customer and then even deployed by the customer later on with their own people, uh, to connect into us so that that was sort of around the evolution of it, where it came about. And then we've been evolving that over time because you get a lot of feed. I've got hundreds of engineers trying these tools and systems what they like, what they don't like. And like you said, the culture of change, there's there's less urgency for it now. Um, but some people have drifted back to traditional models, but there are a lot of advantages for us to use these tools and provide support in the field. Yeah,

[00:12:10] Sarah: so it's interesting. So you were sort of tiptoeing into it Covid happened and gave you the opportunity to dive in. Um, and it is interesting what you say. Um, because it it echoes some of what other people have said. But I read this article, Um, not too too long ago, and I'm not gonna remember where it came from or what exactly the the headline was that hooked me in. But essentially, you know, what they were saying is, um, the impact that covid had on companies in terms of them, you know, really recognising what they're capable of in leveraging these tools and in changing, um as quickly as they need to or being more agile. Or you know, all of the things that that companies had to do when things settle back down. Companies have gone in one of two directions. They have either let that fuel them and make them more passionate about what they're capable of. And they're innovating faster than ever before because it proved that they could do more than they thought was possible. Or they have fallen back into the warm embrace of complacency and then very happy that things went back to, you know, not having that urgency. And so, you know, some of the points you brought up, you know, without those restrictions and without the necessity of it, I've heard a lot of companies say, you know, yeah, we were using augmented reality. But, you know, our technicians just don't really want to do it anymore. Um, or our customers were open to different measures when it was the only option. But now they just really want someone on site. So I'm just curious how you've navigated those things. I think they're very real, um, challenges to expect. But also I think the companies that just concede and say, Oh, yeah, it's just too hard for them or our customers just don't want it, um, are going to fall behind the companies that push harder to keep on the journey. If that makes sense, And so I'm just curious. You know, how you've sort of helped keep things moving along, even if it isn't at the run pace. It had to be during covid.

[00:14:44] Stuart: Yeah, so an interesting point. So, behind the scenes, I would say, um, a a few years ago, our R and D spending in service activity, uh, was about half where it is today. And we're working on things that we'll deploy to the field in 2 to 3 years time. What? We got a lot of feedback on in the field during the crisis, Let's say, were certain features or functions that field engineers didn't like about it, you know, it was too cumbersome. Uh, you know, there was too much information. Oh, I couldn't get internet connection. You know, things were customers didn't had a cybersecurity risk on their site. So we've taken all of that feedback, and then we've doubled our R and D expenditure. We've now created entire lines of R and D expenditure in this place, um, in developing with third parties to make sure that the wearables are wearable and not something too cumbersome to start with. We've also looked at practical tools that help the engineer, Probably more from a safety perspective, because every engineer wants to be safe. All right, um and so we looked at those kind of aspects that help, um, drive adoption and, um, let's say easing the engineers into things like augmented reality. So I'll I'll comment a bit more on that in a minute. But we we've doubled down, right? Um, and and one of it is the front end tool. The others are the backend tools and the data. A lot of our data in Legacy services are on devices that were built 1020 30 years ago that field engineers are working on, and all that data is sitting on paper or if I show my age, microfiche or or other things in in datas and warehouses and things. So we're digitising a lot of that data and information today to make it more usable and usable friendly. So a field engineer could call up a drawing that typically sat in a factory archive somewhere, but it's readily available, and they can call it up. So the and functionality in the augmented reality is, uh, is realised if you like, and it wasn't back then um so there's a There's a back end of cleaning all the data and the information up to make it more usable at the front end. But there's also the aspect of, um, barriers to entry to the market and people wanting to use it and trying basic things. Most companies accept the safety aspect, right? And so wearable devices are the most basic kind. Um, could be like a watch that they're wearing, and it's detecting voltage. So as the person moves towards it, I Is it safe? Is it switched off? No, it's not. And I'd say a lot of electrical incidents are in place where people haven't done the right thing in switching things off and checking and double checking. So having it sort of like as a a safety reminder, like you're sensing in your car when you reverse it and the building you wearing it. And some of the most experienced people still forget to do stuff, and it will vibrate, and they're like, Oh, wow, it saved my life. So then they're more open to let's try something else and let's add something else. So you're not just trying to change the way I do my work. You're trying to make it better for me. So there's a personal factor in there and for customers as well. They don't want a safety issue or risk on their side, so they tend to adopt it. So last month we launched an augmented reality tool that actually shows you your arc incident level as you're walking towards the equipment and a little thing pops up on the goggle or on the glasses and it shows the person, Hey, you should have this safety equipment on before you get to the device and it's just a reminder it's held them. It's not changing what they do, but it be instead of the way they work. It supports them in their work, so we've done developments in that space. But, Sarah, we've we've gone that that double down. But a lot of it is in the background, developing the right products that we can then test in the field with the engineers and then deploy on cybersecurity. Um, we've also worked on, um, tools and systems just to create separation from from site localization of data and information. Um, so we've listened. We've taken the feedback, and then we've invested the money to find that, uh, softest route I would say to adoption.

[00:19:32] Sarah: Yeah, that makes sense. And I mean, there's a couple of points you made that I think are important. And the biggest is that you listened, right? I think that's something, too, that you know, the first generation of something that you, you know, put in place in the middle of a pandemic where it's absolutely critical to being able to conduct business might not be the perfect iteration, right? So being open to the fact of OK, so what do you like? What don't you like what works, what doesn't work and then continuing to evolve that The other thing, though, is you know, you mentioned at one point like, um the you know, I have to imagine there's certain pockets that have far more acceptance than others. For instance, I'm thinking of those international experts that, you know, if you're now able to give them the option to not be on that aeroplane all the time, because they can do this this way, right? That has to add tremendous value to them. And so I think another thing for companies is, you know, maybe try to not get stuck on the pockets of resistance. And instead look for the use cases or the applications within the business where you are getting positive. Traction focus there first, while the other pieces of it sort of come along and mature. You know, I think that's the other thing. Sometimes you know, at the first inclination of challenge or resistance. You know, it's just well, this isn't working, you know, and and maybe just, um, looking at it a bit differently.

[00:21:10] Stuart: Yeah, I think if you think about your field engineering, work it, it's hard work, right. There's a lot of travel. There's a lot of heavy equipment that you're lifting and out in the field. But some of the best field engineers we've got are nearing retirement, right, and so travel becomes more difficult. But the knowledge is there, and for them to be able to impart and share that knowledge with 20 people in a day instead of one when they're travelling to a site is much more attractive, right? And as the tools have become more intuitive that you can just talk instead of typing, You know, if I look at a 64 year old field engineer. They're usually not the best computer literate type is necessarily depending on their background. Um, but for them just to have conversation and talk like we are and the computer or the device in the background taking care of everything else, um, it becomes a lot more natural for them and helps them out. But from a customer's viewpoint as well, I can have, Um Well, we we have different levels of service support. I can have a level four technical, uh, expert from the factory online with you in minutes. Or if you wait a week, I can have them at your site. So they're taking it on. And depending on their sense of urgency, Yeah, they'd love to have the person at the site, but if they're losing a million dollars an hour with oil barrels, not rolling off the production line, very happy to have someone online and guiding them as well. And the other aspect here too. Sarah is, um, the companies themselves helping themselves so us giving them tools so they don't even need to wait for the ab engineer to get there. That, in the case of, um of the the chile mine that they they had technicians that knew that their site and knew their equipment. They could provide them with guided support and get themselves back up. And, yes, we could then schedule in a week or two, the ADB expert to be there. But we also knew a lot more before we got to the site so we could come more prepared. We could have the right equipment there. We weren't going into the unknown we were entering and becoming much more. Um, so as we gave those examples and we share those types of stories with other customers, they become more open. Um, but again, we have to be scalable. Um, some people don't want any data leaving a site. They worried, especially our data centre customers. They're extremely conservative. Even though they provide all this capability, them themselves are conservative. So we had to address that the wearability because back in 2019, these devices were like gaming devices. You know something? A kid would sit in a bedroom with, um, like my eldest son and, you know, and and play on computer games. They were too big, too cumbersome. But now We've got devices that are friendly. They're wearable. They're industrialised. They have features on them with a button instead of, you know, little tiny buttons to to operate. So some vendors have got some really good versatile products to go and work with. And we've had to adapt around them. Yeah.

[00:24:35] Sarah: Can you expand a bit on the artificial intelligence piece and how that weaves into this conversation?

[00:24:43] Stuart: Yeah. Um, so for me there there's really two types of artificial intelligence, and I think artificial intelligence today, uh, is getting a AAA mixed wrap in the market and in communications. Um, there was an article in Wall Street Journal that I commented on a couple of weeks ago, um, around artificial intelligence and how much energy it's consuming in Data centre, right? There's a lot of potential, you know, consumption of power that's going on. But at the same time, it can be a huge productivity material, uh, device for customers and for companies, uh, in the field. Um, so for us, there's there's two types of artificial intelligence. There's generative A I and, um, you know, there's, uh, around data and statistical a right using huge amounts of data to make decisions where we're using artificial intelligence on the generative side is helping pull together reports and information from the field for a customer again. That is in a, uh, a good format for the customer. And we can store the data and the information once we've done a site visit so the wearable device could be taking images or video of what's actually happened. Um, the report can be written the A. I can help write that report. The field engineer ticks some certain items. The A. I also looks into the user manuals and the application that we're applying it to and can also act as a safety device or as a quality inspection. So it's reminding the field engineer Oh, did you check this? Did you check that because you didn't check it off in your in your inspection report? Um, so it follows them up as well, and then it writes the report for the customer based on what the field engineer puts in it checks if they've left something out and then it stores and logs the data and information, whether it's the photos, the videos, the technical, uh, recording information that we do uh, the performance of the asset that we've been working on and then logs that information into the service database. So both we and the customer can pull that information up in the future. Um, but the A I can take care of that and help facilitate that. We looked at it for our fleet of field engineers alone and for field engineers. We were saving between 2 to 3 hours a week of report writing and systems. So just for us alone, that was $30 million a year, right?

[00:27:23] Sarah: And then it's probably something they hated doing. Or at least most people you know. It's like the number one complaint is the paperwork

[00:27:32] Stuart: When you're reporting when you travel, Um, the last thing you want to do when you leave the site at eight o'clock at night is you want to get home with your family or get back to the hotel and rest. And it became also an aspect of work life balance for people, right? So I could either monetize that in, um, savings for the company, or I could give that time back to the field engineer to do something else or training or you know, even even having downtime and and time off instead of working overtime, right? So it it gave us options around productivity. The other area around a I, um, is around self-service and support for the customer. So some of us have seen those annoying, you know, phone support systems, and, you know, uh, chat bots and stuff, but the the technology is getting much better. Um, and the amount of times our field engineers get called out for the most basic thing, and and we're charging the customers hundreds of dollars an hour. We drive all that way and just find it simple switch or something like that. So we're using a I now to do a self guided support for the customer, but then also enable the customer to upgrade that support to things like augmented reality, an online support person, a call out or a service rate to come to the site. So the A I manages that in the background it helps guide them. The third area we're using it through is for optimisation, so we have field engineers that are very well trained across the globe. You might have one in America and one in Europe and one in Asia, all working on the same types of equipment. Um, we have standard operating processes, but maybe the the person in Europe's found a different way of doing something on the person in the US is using a better tool. The A. I can sit in the background and monitor that from, uh, the augmented reality and then help us try to optimise and give us feedback and say, Hey, this may be a better way of doing it and we can optimise our processes going through so it makes the environment interactive, but it also has a learning aspect. Do it in the background, and it's not just the machine that's learning. It's the processes that we use. The last area of A I is around predictability around assets. So as we do the service on the on the asset, it's starting to predict when the next service needs to be done, because when we design a product and put it to the field, it's it's in a what I would consider a laboratory type environment. But if it's in a humid environment or a dry climate or environment, low temperature, high temperature, the behaviour of those assets varies quite a bit. So we're able to help model that with the different service. And we can that the greasing of the years needs to be done more in one environment versus another. And over multiple years we're creating models and algorithms to then go back to customers and provide them service recommendations and based on real data and not on theoretical data. So a I for us has been busy since, uh, 2014. We've been working on it, but we're applying it in many different areas across services.

[00:31:03] Sarah: Yeah, you know it. It's really useful to hear those specific, um, examples because I think, you know, you mentioned the article you contributed to and the energy consumption, uh, within the data centres that you know a I is is causing. I think there's also a mental energy expenditure that is happening because of all of the buzz that it's getting. And I think you know, there's this challenge of separating out what's buzz from what is a good business case? And I think companies sometimes get really caught up in OK, well, it's in all of these headlines or it's everywhere so we need to be doing all of it when in reality, you know, you have to really look at you know, some of those specific points you, me, you mentioned, um, you know, are just surfaced by really examining the processes and thinking about, you know, not Can we get rid of all of our technicians with a I But what can we offload from their plates? That is, you know, monotonous. That is, You know, um, duplicative, et cetera, et cetera. And, you know, leverage the technology to really free them up to, um, like you said, have more time, have better work, life balance, have less stress, you know, whatever the the things are, Um, and then in turn, the benefit that brings the business. But I think there's a lot of distraction. Um, that is coming with with all of the buzz as well that people need to be conscious of.

[00:32:43] Stuart: Yeah, I think, um, a I is used in a very broad term. Um, a lot of people, um, tack a I on to everything that they talk about, whether it is real or not. And I also feel that with a I, um, it's a little bit of the unknown at the moment, so people are apprehensive. They're scared. What is this going to do? But the way that we've approached it, like you said, is look at things that are our pain points, things that we have trouble resolving or fulfilling. And we do these engagement surveys with our field engineers every year there. There's two things we do for our field engineers. Every year we have an engagement survey, so we hear from them around. What's their challenge at site and what's going on? I couldn't hire three more people this year. I. I don't have enough capacity. How do we get more capacity? So that's a common one, and the the one is the safety stand downs we do every January. We bring all our field that we train them. But that training's changed now that training has gone into different directions to help them understand that, Yeah, you can talk to it instead of typing to it, and we did the same with electric vehicles. You can drive the or drive the standard combustion engine and you can see what's going on, and we can apply these, you know, greener options in some areas, Um, but because they are viable now, but we we can't apply it in every area for sure. But we have to be practical and pragmatic about it. And I think with a I, um it's a a conscious investment, and I think data and managing our data and information has been a, uh I would say within the industry has been a poor thing. A lot of things were on paper and, you know, handwrit and stuff. And now we're collecting that to make better decisions and provide better outcomes for customers at the end of the day. So we have to embrace it.

[00:34:43] Sarah: And to your point about all that background work that you're doing with the data piece, you know, that isn't the the sexy part that gets the headlines. But you can't do any of those bits without doing that work right. And I and I think that's another misconception. Companies think that somehow it's magic or somehow they can skip that, and you're absolutely right. I don't You know, I don't think there's, um you know, many companies that have their data, you know, cleaned and structured in a way that they could just, you know, get to it, right? There's this arduous process of, um, you know, getting things, uh, put together in a way that allows you to do, you know, the things that you're doing. So that's another kind of real side to it that doesn't get discussed enough. Yeah,

[00:35:37] Stuart: there's a huge amount of money spent on doing that and maintaining that and having it in a usable format. And we've seen companies like Google and Amazon just live off data and data management and leverage it extremely hard. Traditional industrial firms didn't manage it very well, and, uh, we we are not perfect. Do not get me wrong. We are spending a lot of time and a lot of money, but a lot of these people are. The true heroes are putting this data in the right format because when you're in the field, to be able to access that information very quickly and have that before you walk in is very powerful for both the individual at the site, but all so to the customer that we can talk because no longer can you just have a field engineer sitting there 24 7 out of sight working at the same site. We don't have enough people to do all of that for the growth in the industry, but to empower them and enable them, they have the confidence. They know what they're getting into. They can be prepared for it. And the customer sees that value. So that investment is a long term investment for us. Yeah,

[00:36:47] Sarah: absolutely. So, um, I'm curious. You know what you envision when you think about where this will be in 3 to 5 years. So all of the work you have done, you are doing, you know, you mentioned that you are are working now to develop, uh, you know, the tools that will be in place in 2 to 3 years, et cetera. So, you know, what do you envision in 3 to 5 years when it comes to how a BB will be leveraging these tools and potentially others?

[00:37:24] Stuart: Yeah, I think in in in 3 to 5 years, the, um, it'll be a real interactive process with the field engineer. The field engineer will be at site, uh, with a whole network of people behind them. Um, in the factories in the offices, um, providing them support. Um, I think in 3 to 5 years, a lot of the field service work, um, will be divided between an interactive approach with the customer doing work and us doing work as well. The most basic work will be done by the customer, and we'll empower and enable them to do that. Um, and we will be able to provide that higher level of support. I expect that things like breakdown call outs and that will be reduced dramatically. I expect longer term service agreements and contracts to be the norm. Um, and people will buy, uh, various levels of service support. Um, and they will be using, you know, handheld devices to call people in and do it from an A BB perspective. I think we are pushing towards predictability. Um, a lot more around predictability people using the term predictability for years now. Um, but I would say 90% of companies are either time based maintenance, support or or breakdown type support. Um, going forward and true benefits of this will come with data and information about the assets on the site. And so I think we'll be more proactively going to customers with real examples and information to support it to say, Hey, your equipment can keep running. We don't need to have a service intervention for another 2 to 3 years. Now, um, keep it going. Um, And then we will then be providing you support when it is needed or in reverse. Uh, we only had a shutdown two months ago, but we're already seeing issues, and we can be more so a much more proactive and interactive approach with customers, uh, going forward. I think, for the field engineer themselves, um, there'll be a lot more wearable devices that they will wear. You know, we've seen, um, you know, even in, uh, police forces people wearing body cams and stuff like that, I think for field engineers, similar type things will be available. Um, but again, I think people will be a lot more open to these devices as they become, uh, supporting them and and supporting their environment to make them better. I think things will be a lot more verbal and communicated verbally and then documented, uh, in in database systems. So we're excited about it. I think, um uh, we're hiring a a real good young generation of engineers we're trying to take, uh, the knowledge and the know how of those truly experienced engineers into account as well and trying to keep the balance in their in the life cycle of a field engineer, uh, into into support as well. So, um, the technology is wonderful. Um, it's how do we apply it? How do we make it easy and again, you're still gonna have some parts of the industry that will be very traditional, But we will learn from those that aren't. And I think probably the last thing is sustainability is going to become a much stronger push. You know, between the the leading cases around the Paris Climate agreement, the European directives, the Inflation Reduction Act in the US is driving huge investment. I think companies are gonna look for their service support to have a lower carbon footprint. But service is also gonna be called in to help transition sites and upgrade facilities so that they have that greener footprint and in five years time, that is gonna be a huge driver rather than just keeping operations running. How do you keep it running longer? How do you greeny that operations? How do you integrate new things into that operations going forward. And all of that's gonna give you more data and more information that can then help the field engineer or help the company deploy things

[00:41:52] Sarah: better. Yeah, absolutely. It is exciting. Um, my last question, Stuart is Do you have any words of wisdom for anyone listening that, you know, maybe has had their fits and starts? Or has, you know, been struggling to determine where and how some of these more advanced capabilities fit into their business? Any words of wisdom on you know how to look at it, how to get started? Um, mindset approach. You know anything there?

[00:42:26] Stuart: OK, so first thing is, it's It's a long journey, right? It's not something you and it will be up and running. Um, second thing is, find your early adopters. Um, there are companies out there that are willing to try things and do things, and it's usually based on their pain points. So those that are struggling for support or those that don't have enough of their own resources to do the work are probably more open. Talk to the person on the site and get their buy in It's not just the C suite, and sometimes the C suite have their objectives. Um, but it it goes against the the the site manager or the person at the site, and you need to help bridge that relationship going forward. So it it is long term. Find your early adopters, look at customer pain points and start implementing their to those early adopters, um, and then start that journey going forward. But as you also mentioned Sarah, it's not just about the front end tool if you don't have the tools to feed the front end tool, so you need to do both right. There's no point in putting in a halo lens at the front. If you've got no data in the background, um, it becomes a toy, um, so build it and then focus it in a particular area in a particular industry, a particular customer base and a particular problem and then build. From there. Our focus point started from covid right and and we had a problem. We moved on. We listened, we took it, and then we moved forward from there. So I think, um, yeah, it's, uh, it's an interesting journey. Um, there's a lot of different opportunities out there. There's still very traditional customers that we want to look after. Um, but a lot of young talent that we have coming in are super interested in these technologies, and it helps us attract people to the industry as well trying out these new

[00:44:22] Sarah: things. Yeah. No, it is interesting. Sort of this in between, you know, people that are more traditional, more resistant people that are, um, you know, talent and customers who are more innovative, who want to try these different things. And I think, you know, there will be this period of time where you need to serve both, uh, parties and keep working toward you know, where things are heading. Um, and so really appreciate you coming and and sharing all of your insights, Uh, enjoyed the conversation. And it's been wonderful information. So thank you, Stuart.

[00:44:59] Stuart: Yeah. Thank you for having me, Sarah. It's been great.

[00:45:02] Sarah: You can find more by visiting the home of unscripted at future of Field service.com. The podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more at Ifs.com, as always. Thank you for listening.

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