Sarah welcomes Jordan Babineaux, former NFL player turned entrepreneur and business coach, voice of the Seattle Seahawks, and author of new book PIVOT TO WIN.
Sarah Nicastro: Welcome to the Future of Field Service Podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Today we're going to be talking about tackling challenges to embrace change and what it takes to pivot to win. I'm excited today to welcome to the podcast Jordan Babineaux, former NFL player turned entrepreneur and business coach as well as voice of the Seattle Seahawks and author of new book, Pivot to Win. Welcome to the podcast, Jordan.
Jordan Babineaux: Thanks Sarah. Thanks for having me. How are you doing today?
Sarah Nicastro: I'm very well, thank you. Now, it just so happens we are recording this episode the morning after the Super Bowl so that seems fitting. I assume you were watching the game last night.
Jordan Babineaux: Yes, yes, and by myself. Trust me, we did not have a big Super Bowl party as one would typically have so we did it safely.
Sarah Nicastro: Yes. All right. Good. All right. I was watching with my four and five year old sons who made sure that I didn't get to pay very close attention to the game because they were asking me every couple minutes, "Mommy, what's that team? Mommy, what are they doing? What does that referee mean?" So interesting.
Jordan Babineaux: Well, that's fun. That's fun.
Sarah Nicastro: It was part watching the Super Bowl and part educating on the sport of football as best I could, so good.
Jordan Babineaux: And the entertainment of enjoying the commercial. I think that's all a big part of looking forward to the Super Bowl. It's like who has the funniest commercial in advertising.
Sarah Nicastro: Yeah.
Jordan Babineaux: Those tend to land well.
Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, I like the Jeep commercial and then we were keeping an eye out for the Nick Jonas Dexcom commercial because my older son has type 1 diabetes and he uses Dexcom. So we thought it was really cool that that technology was being socialized on that type of platform.
Cool. All right. Let's dig in. Jordan, tell us a little bit about yourself and your journey.
Jordan Babineaux: Sarah, you know, I grew up in Texas. I was the youngest of five and anything from your normal childhood upbringing, I mean certainly growing up in the South, you have hospitality, you have this Southern way of doing things and Texas certainly, it's good barbecue. But my upbringing was challenging and surrounded by economic ruins growing up and impoverished kind of environment. Certainly in the South, having to deal with racism and discrimination was a huge part of the challenges that we face both personally and as a family and as a community.
Jordan Babineaux: My father passed, I was eight years old. The sudden death of my dad suddenly left mom to figure things out for her kids. I'm the youngest of five, as I mentioned. Somehow with a little bit of faith and a secretary's salary, mom was able to afford each of us the goodwill of instilling great values of faith and growing up through a church. Education was highly demanded and also the essence of giving back. Even though we didn't have much, I remember my mom feeding kids in the neighborhood. Eating bread.
Jordan Babineaux: But as resilient as she was, we were all able to graduate high school, graduate college. I played nine years professionally in the NFL and my brother played 12 years for the Atlanta Falcons. You look back on it, the older you get, and you're like, "Wow, those childhood experiences." Certainly there's a great connection and better understanding the older you get but the more experiences you have. I'm a father now and so I understand what it's like to really sacrifice for your kids, create a better road and path for them. And those moments when I've just sit there and dwelled on some of those connections and stories and experiences and trials that I went through as a child, it's heart moving, it's warming and it really brings tears to my eyes to understand and know the sacrifice that my mama really experienced and went through.
Sarah Nicastro: Yeah. I think it's really interesting. The older you get, the more it makes you reflect back on exactly how you were shaped into the person you are and how all of those experiences evolve and build on one another. You continue growing as a person, but all of that is a part of you. So yeah, that's really interesting and I definitely agree that once you have children yourself it gives you a whole new perspective on what your parents went through and what they had to do to set you off into the world.
Sarah Nicastro: Good. Okay. We're going to be talking today quite a bit about your new book, Pivot to Win. Before I get into some of the specific questions I have for you on some of the major themes and points of the book, just tell us a bit about what made you want to write Pivot to Win and what purpose do you hope it serves for your readers?
Jordan Babineaux: I think there's always been a little part of me that wanted to do some form of storytelling. I went to Southern Arkansas University and my major was communications. I majored in broadcast journalism and used print as a minor but in thinking about it, I was in college the early 2000s, that print platform was starting to become less attractive. It was the evolution of the digital age and the internet and things were moving rather rapidly in that direction. And so in a sense, people started to think that print publications would suddenly die.
Jordan Babineaux: But not the case, and here we are today still talking about print publications and magazines. Believe it or not, I'm still one of those persons who order books, and I like to read and highlight and make notes and-
Sarah Nicastro: Me too.
Jordan Babineaux: And scribble in the books. Even newspapers. I get the Wall Street Journal now and even though I have the app on my phone, it's just something about being able to touch and feel and the crinkling of the paper and whatever that does for me in a way. But print's still here. The book, Pivot to Win, evolves from the sense of in 2018, I went to attend a Darren Hardy masterclass in San Diego. Darren Hardy is SUCCESS mentor. Well-known for what he's done through the publications at SUCCESS magazine for over a decade and interviewing, you name it, talking about world changers from the Oprahs to the Elons to the Jacks to the ... I mean, all across the board.
Jordan Babineaux: And then since, he's branched out and created his own platform and we share conversations around mentorship and getting myself to operate at high levels and through performance and that sort of thing. I attended his masterclass and in the middle of, it must have been day two, we're heading to lunch and before our break he says to ... It's a 100 business owners across the globe. Very intimate setting. And he says, "If anyone has been thinking about writing a book, come back a few minutes early before lunch and we'll have a conversation. I'll introduce you to my book team. And there it is.
Jordan Babineaux: Sarah, I'm one of those persons that if you give me an opportunity or you invite me to do something or there is a way in which that I can achieve something, you have my interest. We can't explain why some people do and some people don't. You give 10 people a book. All 10 people won't read the book. But the one person who gets the book obviously thinks something of it and reads the book and they take something from it, adds it to their own life and then a year later you see this person blossom. And then suddenly everyone has this, wow. This overnight success birth of this person that no one's ever heard of when over time the work has certainly been put in and the days of progress has been stacked to reach this culmination of what some people will call an overnight success.
Jordan Babineaux: Well, it's not the case. We went through this process. I come back and I was like, "Well, that almost feels like a dare in some way." I was like, "Wait. Are you really saying that I can do this and you're going to give me access to your resources?" "Absolutely. I'll take you up on that." Here we are. I mean now it's 2021. I finished the book. Once we got started, I made the introduction to my book team, once we got started it became like a 16 or 17 month process of back and forth communication with the book team. I was writing. And Sarah, on top of that I had just rolled into my MBA program at Seattle University. Lo and behold I thought, "Why the hell would I decide to write a book in the middle of my MBA program?" I had no idea what that process would look like or how it would turn out to be.
Jordan Babineaux: But the timing of it for me, Sarah, it was right on. I talk about my childhood and the things that I went through and the early loss of my father and having the battle, the challenges of growing up in a single parent household, five kids and some of those things that we had to overcome. Well, it's certainly built a lot of resilience and perseverance over the time to go through these things and know that there's still light at the end of the tunnel. While I was enrolled in my MBA program, we were in this leadership component of the first three to six months and Seattle University is a Jesuit school to have old Catholicism and practices around formation of the individual and the self and the human body and the person. And it was right for me.
Jordan Babineaux: When I tell you that the discoveries in which I learned in going through these courses brought me and moved me to tears, I finally understood myself a lot better. I understood my triggers, I understood how I felt around certain things, whether it was conflict resolution, finances, relationships. All of these things that we don't know that shapes us through our environment, the people we hang around. Even just embedded in us from our parents. Some of those things that are just in us comes from our parents and their philosophies and thoughts around that. Well, I didn't understand that until I really had a chance to do some inner reflection and turn my lens to focus more on me, and it was very moving.
Jordan Babineaux: In the book, Pivot to Win, I share a lot of those stories and I get real personal. When I say, in a way that's vulnerable. But I'm okay with it now, Sarah. I went through this process of using sports to fuel some of the aggression and anger, but also the joys. It wasn't just about I was just this angry person or anything like that, but it was a way to free myself from all of the things in which I was dealing with. I mean that was why we got involved in sports in the very beginning anyway, because mom saw what we were going through. We were also battling the challenges of peer pressure and dealing with street and violence and drug abuse and all of those things that was just natural in our community.
Jordan Babineaux: But that process, Sarah, when I say I had a chance to just really let go, all of those emotions in which as a child that I masked and just swept under the rug while developing myself into this alpha male macho mentality of a sports figure, I was able to look at them and reflect on them and have a deeper understanding of myself. It was really moving. And it led to Pivot to Win and so I'm happy to share the book, happy to share the stories and my hope is that people will take away the lessons and the successes away from the book and add it to their own life and use it to their own purpose.
Sarah Nicastro: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Okay. Good. That was a lot, but there's a lot there that I totally can resonate with. I think it's really easy to spend a lifetime really distracting yourself from what's at the root of you as a human being, particularly if you've had any challenges in your childhood and your early years. Stuff that maybe you didn't know what to do with, how to process or you didn't have the resources to or you didn't have the emotional energy or the tools to do that. And when you make the choice to dig in, it's very interesting.
Sarah Nicastro: Let's talk about some of the things that come up in the book. You talk about the importance of change and your belief that we must embrace change as a catalyst for growth. One of the things you say is that change can feel like you've lost part of your identity, but it's important. Talk about that belief.
Jordan Babineaux: Great question. Let me think. Here we are, still in the middle of a global pandemic where change and uncertainty, the anxiety of having to deal with what we're all going through both personally and professionally, is more challenging than any time in human history. Certainly I'm still ... Sarah, I'll just say I'm under 40. I'm not revealing my age just yet. But as I push closer to 40, I know that we have seniors and elders who have been through similar situations when faced with tough adversities across our country, across our condition and our economy.
Jordan Babineaux: But change is consistent. It's the one thing that we can guarantee. We used to say this in the NFL in the locker room, is that change is one thing that you're promised. But we also looked at it too as a revolving door. I used to look at opportunities like, "Okay, well if this franchise doesn't think that I'm no longer welcome or my services are no longer here, then there is 31 other teams that I could choose from."
Jordan Babineaux: Change is consistent, but when we pivot and create these moments of change, there's two ways we can look at when going through change. One is, we can refuse to believe that it's actually happening and it's easy to mask or be in this state of disbelief where it's unreal. This isn't happening. Then a year later, five years later we're kind of stuck on a treadmill. Sometimes this treadmill can be a mental treadmill. It's like I haven't even overcome acceptance of my new realities. I think in moving through transition and moving through pivots, we have to first get this understanding and acceptance of what the new reality is. So change from moving and uprooting, from one city to another, or leaving one company and going to another. Change also in the form of our habits. The death of the old self and the birth of the new from a mental standpoint.
Jordan Babineaux: Change really offers us the ability to have this two part. One, we can remain stuck and in disbelief as if things are what we've always thought that they would be. This norm, if you will. And we can define that, if you'd like, as a fixed mindset. It's like, "Oh, this is what I know. This is what I'm used to and I'm going to stick to it." But we can also embrace change. I think when we embrace change from that perspective we look for new opportunities. And though there's loss in change, I understand that, but there's also the birth of something new.
Jordan Babineaux: I think the human mind can really be this incredible cycle and mechanism that can either leave us or move us either way. Where we can be stuck in a way that we're confined mentally. That our circumstances have more power over than what we're able to accomplish or how we're able to move past some of those situations. And then there's also the challenge of the growth mindset. Of, "I'm willing to try new things." Person that's willing to learn and accept change in a way of the filling and belief of new discoveries. I'm not saying that change is easy. Moving through change is one of those challenging things. But I think while focusing in on what's ahead, we can get our mind to shift in a way where it's more powerful and we look at change as new opportunities.
Sarah Nicastro: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Yeah. And this is a big theme in the content that we produce for our audience because if you look at some of the transformation journey the companies that we speak to are on, this idea of managing change and overcoming resistance to change within the employee base, and even just creating a culture of change from the top down, those are all themes. Because it is uncomfortable for human beings. You do tend to want to stick with what's comfortable and what you know and it can be tough to push yourself outside of that.
Sarah Nicastro: Now, as a part of talking about change, you talk about this term. You say, "A personal ground zero." What does that mean?
Jordan Babineaux: Yes. Moving away from the NFL into life after football was the biggest pivot for me. It was such a challenging time both from a mental standpoint, a psychological standpoint and there were times where I felt like I was stuck. I went through this process of kind of understand what it's like to go through change and this certainly ties into the question what you just asked about change and where we are. Fixed mindset, growth mindset. And so I went through and kind of developed what I would call a model, a pivot model to help us move through change. It's five step model, and certainly there are a lot of change models out there.
Jordan Babineaux: A lot of them deal with a two part component. There is an internal side of change. You know, how I feel about myself. Many people suffer from what's called an imposter syndrome. It's like, "Am I good enough? Am I really this person that I portray to be or how does other people view me?" That's the external side of this change model, this pivot model in which we're working through. Because change is tough. Simply put, it is a tough thing to deal with and to have to navigate.
Jordan Babineaux: Ground zero is what I would identify as step three in this change model. The first step is to recognize. It's like, "Well, am I in a pivot? Am I in a change? How do I know when it's time to pivot?" You can really maybe answer that question in a way that, "Do I feel like I'm living in my purpose? Am I being of value? Do I feel stuck?" Those kind of questions. Those personal reflection questions could help us answer whether we're doing meaningful work.
Jordan Babineaux: I think, Sarah, we all want to feel more valued. We all want to create greater impact in our lives, but how do we do that? And sometimes this step one of recognizing, "Am I in a way where I can leverage my relationships, position or skillset to provide more opportunity or to create the greater impact that I want in my community or for my family?"
Jordan Babineaux: Then there's a decision process. It's like, "Okay, well ..." I mentioned this term or this phase of being stuck and this sense of acceptance of the change. It's like, "Well, do I want to accept the change or not?" To me, there's a decision right there and that's the powerful stage. I was pivoting away from the NFL and I was moving into my broadcasting career. But at the same time in my mind, I was living in Los Angeles and training to go back for year 10. But I also knew that life would happen and eventually I would be a former football player. I would be a former athlete. And so what was the transition in being able to set myself up to have a smoother transition, a smoother pivot?
Jordan Babineaux: Pivots, planned or unplanned, there's still challenges in change. We can have a planned change and still have to navigate success or re-identify success as I say that I had to do. It was no longer tackles and interceptions and touchdowns. Suddenly success became a lot different and I wasn't clear about what success looked like for me. But I had to make a decision. I remember working with my speech coach, my on-camera coach and he was noticing that I was kind of still answering questions in a way that I would as if I was protecting the team, like I was still in a locker room. Not willing to throw guys under the bus or really in a sense, for the viewer, not being truthful.
Jordan Babineaux: I think when he said that it's like, well, the viewers don't come here to get this shallow type of delivery on whether your position around protecting a player, just because they may have given up a touchdown or been at fault for a missed assignment. All they wanted was the truth. And so I started thinking about that in a way. How do I be more creative in a way that doesn't feel like I have this sense of hatred or anger or bitterness toward these players who are still playing because I still want to play? But also, because I want to give my viewers something truthful.
Jordan Babineaux: So my wording changed a little bit and I would use words like, "Well, this position, which should have covered this area of the field may have bid on a play action." Anyway, I said it in a way where you can create gaps and it was digestible for the viewer to still understand it. So the decision part, for me, are you a player or are you a broadcaster? It was a tough decision but it was an easy decision because the NFL is kind of like either I can sit back and wait on someone to call me and still go through the politics. There was a new collective bargaining agreement that just happened in the CBA, so you saw teams moving to younger players. Even the base salary for where I was in year 10, a team can get three players and younger. So I made a decision. I was like, "Yeah, I'm moving into broadcast. I'm going to create my own opportunities. I'm going to take this path and I'm just going to figure out what it is."
Jordan Babineaux: So here we are at ground zero. Ground zero is step three and it's kind of like this, "What is my new norm?" Things change. Accept it, dude. Something's changed in your life, now you have new routines that you have to create. You have personal values in which I had to reflect on and get real with myself. I think that was it. It's like, "Dude, get real with yourself, okay? You're no longer a football player." And this cycle of that mentality is the same reason why you see professional athletes pivot away from sports, then in a few years later have relationship issues, financial issues. It's because this mentality of still living as my old self, the habits that I created, has really set me up for disaster. And so there's this state of reality.
Jordan Babineaux: I'll move through step four and five rather rapidly but because ... I talked about the imposter syndrome. Well, step four are these continuous acts of courage. It's like, well, even though I feel like a broadcaster, I majored in communications, I knew this was the path that I wanted to take, it just didn't feel like normal. I didn't feel like me. So I was in this process of discovering who the new Jordan Babineaux was.
Jordan Babineaux: You know, Sarah, you hear people say it's like, "I want to reinvent myself." And it's like, "Oh, well. I cut my hair, or I dyed my hair, or I changed my wardrobe." Well, that's not a way to reinvent yourself. I mean, you changed your looks but if your habits, your activities and your mannerisms are still the same, then you're still this old person with shorter hair. And really looking at how we want to reinvent ourselves. I think the one thing that you have to get real with yourself is what are my behaviors? What are my attitudes and what are my habits? When we start to ask those questions, that's when the real process of change starts to happen.
Jordan Babineaux: The fifth state is transformative. It's this level of transformation where I'm in a state of acceptance, I understand my new values. It maybe be re-identifying what those are, establishing something new, creating new habits. But the reality in this transformative state is that I'm no longer feeling stuck. I'm no longer feeling like the work that I'm doing is meaningless. The people that I'm touching, my customers or even my family for that matter can see this new sense of me and I'm moving into this transformative state. But it's this deeper sense of awareness where you feel more connected to that purpose. Ground zero is a way to help you get there.
Sarah Nicastro: Yeah and again, just relating this back to, I guess, insights that our audience would be familiar with. When we talk about projects or efforts being derailed by a lack of change management, I think relating it back to, Jordan, what you're saying is because as service leaders, as companies, they can overlook steps one through four and just try and get right into the transformation and the employees as individuals haven't yet come to grips with the fact that resistance is futile and that they need to adapt and that can cause some issues.
Sarah Nicastro: Okay. Let me see. Okay, so a couple of other things I want to talk about. One is as we change, personally or professionally, we're going to falter and even fail. There is no way to perfect this process. I don't think that failure is normalized enough. For us as humans, but particularly in the business setting. Talk a little bit about any advice you have on how to embrace mistakes.
Jordan Babineaux: Well, let's pick up from the business side. I think one of the toughest things to do is implement change within your company. Again, we have the growth mindset versus fixed mindset but take for instance change in the medical industry as where we are now. You have an extreme change in terms of now you see doctors and institutions move into telemedicine. From a doctor's standpoint it's that they're embracing this change whether they wanted to or not. Certainly it was forced upon them. But then there's other elements around change that seems to align or help create a sustainable or successful change.
Jordan Babineaux: I'll give you one instance. Let's take for instance the skills, a skillset. It's like, well, the skillset needs to change. Let's take implementing a program. Whatever software or program that doctors are using, but they may not have been familiar with them. Those things have changed. Does the change support the company culture? Does the change support the company values and the mission? We haven't even got to the human element, so let's add that. Because people naturally are resistant to change.
Jordan Babineaux: I was reading a book called Switch by the Heath Brothers. It's like they describe change by the elephant and the rider. You have the rational side of, "Yeah, I know I should change," or being able to understand that maybe the value of the change is greater than the actual change itself. But then there's the elephant. There's the emotional side too as well. When you add that part of it in, then it's well, the elephant always wins, man. Come on.
Jordan Babineaux: But back to the medical example that I'm giving is that in change too, particularly in the medical field, is that there's a gap. You have change agents and you have recipients of the change. Take for instance our elders who are used to personal touch, who are used to going to the doctor. Who for some, that may be the only time that they get outside, is to go visit their doctor. And then there's barriers with that. You have people who don't have adequate internet, who have WiFi challenges. Or now having to have a conversation with a doctor through video conference and the doctor is going to diagnose me through video or ... So there's a certain level of trust that's lost in that change as well.
Jordan Babineaux: I just look at change from the perspective of, on the business side of this world, there's so many elements that's associated with the change to make it a successful change. Number one, one way to make a successful change is you have to get all your stakeholders on board. I reflect back when I decided I was going to MBA school, I didn't really give much conversation to my wife around why this was a good idea. Though she may have understood it, what I didn't know was the ripple effect, the emotional weight that it would have on her in having to deal with me spending 12 hour days in class away from the house, away from the family, et cetera, et cetera. So change became challenge in the sense of it can be challenging if we don't involve all of our stakeholders.
Jordan Babineaux: I'll get back to your question around embodying and embracing failures along the way through change. There are some companies who will invite change where a way where it's part of the culture. Like, "We want you to fail, we want you to go out and try things." There's this learning process, I think, that's more powerful to let's say your sales team who are out in the field, who are having this personal touch with the customers. And they're the ones who are having to be the recipient or the gateway between a product and a customer's success rating. Some companies embody change in a way where saying, "It's okay to fail. We want you to go out and try these things. We want you to be successful in that way."
Jordan Babineaux: Then there are companies who have sales teams who are just standard. They're just the status quo. It's just it is what it is. I mean, it's just the way that we do it. We don't believe in innovation and in today's age where change is so rapid and the growth is so substantial in terms of exponential in the sense of pace. That it's almost like shoving a square into a round hole. It's that we have to be adaptive in today's age. We have to be adaptive in our company culture. We have to be adaptive in the way we serve our customers. We have to be adaptive in our own lives. To me, this tone of adaptability is one of the things that I think that is a great quality to possess when going through change.
Sarah Nicastro: Mm-hmm (affirmative). Okay. Very good. Last question, Jordan, is knowing change is hard and it can be tiresome, how do you stay focused and motivated for the long run?
Jordan Babineaux: One of the things I talk about in Pivot to Win is that when I first came to the NFL, I was a sponge. I used to watch the veterans. I watched the older guys and see what they were doing. During drill work I would see and understand and learn from either their successes or their failures and taking note and certainly I had my chance to do it too. Not that I did everything perfect or everything right. It's that I was just more aware of how can I give myself the best level of success.
Jordan Babineaux: Now Sarah, you may not understand what it's like to be a undrafted free agent going into this highly competitive arena of professional sports. Well, I mean it's almost as if you're a body and the odds are stacked against you. I think one of the things that helped me was develop a routine. I talk about a routine. Routine to me is just simply a process that can give us a little bit more control of a situation with a result in mind. Now, it doesn't necessarily mean that success is automatic, it doesn't mean that winning is guaranteed but it does give you a sense of control.
Jordan Babineaux: Take for instance a basketball player at the free throw line. He throws the ball, dribble twice, twirls it, shoots it. Every time. Doesn't matter. It's his routine. Or a golfer, for instance, who has a pre-shot routine. One swing, two swings, play with the wind, pick some grass up. Whatever that routine is, I think that we all should look to develop a routine. And you say, well how do we create more success in that routine? Simply, not in any kind of superstitious beliefs but I think that a routine, whether it is you're walking into your office, before I sit down or before I start my day, before I go into a sales meeting, whatever that level of comfort is for you to put yourself in a routine and to a state of mind where you're going in and you're feeling like you have control of the situation. I think it's important for each of us to find that routine of what that is to help us increase our level of success.
Sarah Nicastro: Mm-hmm (affirmative). That makes sense. All right, good. Well, this has been great, Jordan. I really appreciate you joining and sharing some of this with us today and I found the conversation to be very insightful. Let folks know where they can find more information about yourself and the book.
Jordan Babineaux: Yeah, thanks Sarah. So Jordan Babineaux across all platforms on social media. LinkedIn, Twitter, Instagram and Facebook. I can be reached there. The book is now available on Amazon.
Jordan Babineaux: And more than anything, I think one of the things that I like to share about the book, it's a quote by Muhammad Ali that really embodies the core of the book. The book is about growth. The book is about what's possible. The book is about not letting your circumstances outweigh what it is that you have for yourself or the person that you desire to be, the things that you want for your company, your family, your own life.
Jordan Babineaux: And then the impact and legacy that we each want to leave. And so I shared this quote by Muhammad Ali. It says, "The man who views the world at 50, the same as he did at 20 has wasted 30 years of his life." Again, embodying the growth mindset and being adaptive to change, moving through change when it's uncomfortable. Because more than anything, and I think we all can agree, that change is consistent and if it is consistent, we need to find a way to get better at it and move through our states of being stuck both mentally and physically.
Jordan Babineaux: So thanks Sarah. I really appreciate you coming on and letting me share a little bit about my journey, about my growth, my personal development journey as well and about everything in Pivot to Win. It's a book not just for professional athletes, Sarah. Because professional athlete or not, we all will have this battle between the body and the mind at some point. This willingness to do something, but this challenge of actually doing it. And that's what change is.
Sarah Nicastro: Absolutely. Well, thank you Jordan. Love the quote. Great way to end. Appreciate you being here.
Sarah Nicastro: You can find more of our podcasts and other content by visiting us at futureoffieldservice.com. You can also find us on LinkedIn as well as Twitter @thefutureoffs. The Future of Field Service podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more about IFS service management by visiting www.ifs.com. As always, thank you for listening.