Episode 350 | UNSCRIPTED
“And I would actually argue that pain storming is more important than brainstorming because if we do not understand the problem, we're creating solutions for the wrong problem. And so it starts first with having a clear eyed reality of what's on the ground.”
Host Sarah Nicastro welcomes Jeffrey Yip, Associate Professor of Management and Organizational Studies at Simon Fraser University, who teaches leadership in the Executive MBA and Management of Technology programs and conducts research on work relationships and leading change. Jeff shares why effective change leadership starts with listening to organizational pain, and explains how the practice of “painstorming” can help leaders improve field service change management, reduce resistance, and build stronger foundations for organizational transformation.
What You'll Learn
- What organizational pain is and why it often goes unheard by senior leaders
- Why effective storytelling in change leadership starts with listening, not messaging
- How the practice of “painstorming” helps leaders identify real barriers to change before jumping to solutions
- The PAIN framework (Priorities, Anxiety, Inertia, Noise) and how to apply it in real organizational conversations
- Why leaders must slow down, validate experiences, and reduce friction to successfully mobilize change
- How painstorming can significantly improve adoption and trust—especially during AI and technology-driven change
About the Guest(s)
Jeffrey Yip is an Associate Professor of Management and Organizational Studies at Simon Fraser University, where he teaches leadership in the Executive MBA and Management of Technology programs.
His research and teaching focus on helping leaders navigate change by strengthening listening, relationships, and human connection at work. Jeffrey works closely with technology leaders and executives, including through programs with CIO Canada, and his insights have been featured in Harvard Business Review and Psychology Today.
Jeff is the creator of the “Listen and Build” approach and a leading voice on the role of listening, organizational pain, and empathy in effective change leadership.
Follow Along
- 00:00 – Introduction to painstorming and change leadership
- 04:06 – Why listening is the foundation of effective leadership
- 07:00 – Understanding organizational pain
- 12:42 – Painstorming and the PAIN framework
- 33:45 – How painstorming enables successful change
- 39:53 – Applying painstorming to AI adoption and the future of leadership
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