joanna.darby@ifsworld.com, Author at Future of Field Service

Tyler Verri, Customer Service Manager - Training and Installation Strategy at Sub-Zero Group, Inc., talks with Sarah about the crucial role training plays in ensuring a positive customer experience – particularly as Sub-Zero relies on third-party providers for service.

Sarah Nicastro: Welcome to the Future of Field Service podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. On today's podcast, we're going to be discussing the criticality of effective training on the customer experience. I'm excited to welcome to the podcast today, Tyler Verri, Customer Service Manager for Training and Installation Strategy at Sub-Zero Group. Tyler, welcome to the podcast.

Tyler Verri: Hi Sarah.

Sarah Nicastro: Thanks for being here. So before we dive into today's topic, tell our listeners a bit about yourself and your role at Sub-Zero.

Tyler Verri: Absolutely. So I'm Tyler Verri, I've been with Sub-Zero about 14 years. Sub-Zero Group is a manufacturer of high end residential cooking, refrigeration, and we recently got into dishwashing products. 12 years I actually spent in IT, managing a variety of teams, and the last two years I've actually been in customer service, as you mentioned, as the manager of the training and installation strategy.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah. So, you and I had caught up prior to this and I said, "Wow, the transition from IT to customer service is an interesting one." So how have you liked it?

Tyler Verri: It's definitely been a unique path to get here. Obviously, my role in the past in IT, very focused on internal operations and support of our organization, and now I've shifted to one where I'm supporting external partners and direct contact with our customers. It's definitely been a welcome changed, it's pushed me to expand my business knowledge, and learn how we go to market, how we support our products in the field. So extremely grateful for Sub-Zero and the opportunity to develop my leadership in different forms.

Sarah Nicastro: Cool. Yeah, it is an interesting transition, but in my former role, I hit the 11 year mark, not quite 12, and it was time for a change, so it's a good time to try something different and expand horizons. So what I want to talk about first is the structure of Sub-Zero's installation and service business, because, I think, for our listeners understanding how you do those things is going to be important in framing the conversation we have around training, and what effective training entails, and how training impacts the customer experience. So Sub-Zero, for both installation and service, you leverage partner networks for both functions. So, talk our listeners through what that structure looks like.

Tyler Verri: Yeah, correct. So network is a bit unique in terms of we leverage certified third parties to provide our installation and service of our products. So our service network is a bit more defined than our installation, being we have control, we pay the service companies if they're doing warranty work for us, and we've really narrowed that down to specific service companies in very large metro markets. And they can provide, and majority of them do, sole support of the Sub-Zero Group brands. Our ultimate goal by doing this and leveraging third parties, we really want to make sure that we're giving them the most touches on our products, whether it's from an installation or a service perspective. So we really try to drive the majority of our business, for our customers, through the certified companies that we have in our network.

Sarah Nicastro: Okay, good. So you leverage third party for both installation and service functions. And in talking with the service community, one of the biggest concerns we hear when it comes to the pros and cons of relying on contingent workers or a third party workforce, is really that loss of control over the customer experience, right? So that tends to be one of the biggest hesitations in embracing that model. So at Sub-Zero, and in your role, you are relying heavily on training to preserve the customer experience. So what I want to talk about first is some of the aspects that you feel make for effective training, that therefore help companies retain some of that control.

Tyler Verri: Absolutely. I think the big thing, for us, on creating an effective training is making sure that we understand what are the needs of our partner organizations, and ensuring that we're building to meet the different learning styles. So not just creating something that is web-based when we know, some people, they can't sit in front of a computer and do something. These are technicians, they work with their hands, they want to get hands-on. So making sure that, yes, we do have some content that is web-base, engages videos, but we also want to make sure that we also are creating hands-on curriculum, forcing critical thinking, understanding what are the tools that they can leverage that we have built for them.

Tyler Verri: But then also understanding that as much as we want uniformity in our network, we want to make sure that they have autonomy to continue to fit the needs of their culture and identity as their organizations. The thing that I do find unique, we're a family-owned company, third generation, and a lot of the companies that we have partnered with, they're very similar in that manner, they're smaller scale, but they're usually family-owned, multigenerational companies, you have owner-operators, from that perspective. So I really see the ties of culture connecting that way, and it really helps us in the synergies.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, that makes sense. And I think that what you articulated, that balance between autonomy and uniformity is really what companies are striving to achieve. And I think that that balance is really relatable, not just for companies that are leveraging third party workers, but even companies that have a really large geographical footprint and have different divisions of their business, regions of their business that have traditionally operated fairly independently. And as organizations look to really standardized service delivery, making those, either departments, or in this case, partners, feel that we're not trying to control you and we don't want to take away all of that autonomy, but we do want to be consistent with our customer experience, and we do want to provide some level of uniformity that people can be assured to have when they have a Sub-Zero service, right? That is a really important balance. And I'm curious, what are some of the ways that you, from a communication perspective, try and strike that balance?

Tyler Verri: So communication, for us, is leveraging key partners in the field that have been vocal about what we're doing and how we're doing it, and making sure that we engage them on a reoccurring basis of, how are we performing and what are the things that you need? And we've created an advisory council that leverages both service, installation. We bring them together as a peer group because, yes, they're usually two very separate businesses in terms of how they operate. Service generally isn't doing installation, and once again, installation is not generally doing service, but they are... Ultimately the goal of providing that customer experience and aligning us from manufacturing all the way to service is key, and that's why we do bring these groups together and engage them.

Tyler Verri: How do we do it? We generally, on a yearly basis, have a partner summit. Obviously, with the current climate we live in, we've had to think differently in how do we continue to engage and get this feedback. But for us, it is tying very closely to our partners, and making sure they understand what we're doing, we understand what they're doing, and how do we all continue to march in the same direction.

Sarah Nicastro: That makes sense. So, you touched on the importance of a multi-format approach when it comes to training. And so, rather than as an organization thinking about it from the context of what's the easiest and most efficient way for us to get this information out there, you really need to be thinking about the fact that, as you mentioned, not everyone can learn the same way. Not everyone consumes information in the same way, so that multi-format approach is important. And as you said, you're looking at opportunities to leverage digital and video, hands-on, and also when possible, an in person aspect. But we also talked about in that multi-format approach, you have three tracks of training that you're focusing on. So share with our listeners what those three tracks are and why they're important.

Tyler Verri: Absolutely. Yeah, as we were looking, knowing that our partners are onboarding new employees, especially from the service and installation companies, there's turnover, there's retirements, there's a lot of things that play into the changes and growth of these organizations, and we wanted to make sure that we meet those changes. So as we were looking at how do we deploy and develop training, we developed three tracks. So we have the e-learning, which is our first and I would say our basic track, it's self-paced, you go online, it's on demand, you can take it as you need it, and we generally structure them to be about 20 minute classes. So you go in, a new employee can come on, they really can learn about Sub-Zero, Wolf, Cove culture, and do a 20 minute training onboarding them to the brands. Before they get into the technical weeds of everything, it's just, "What am I supporting?" And starting at that level.

Tyler Verri: The next is regional based training. We understand that taking technicians off the road, whether they're doing installation or service, that's taking away profit from those organizations. They're not able to go out and make money, so we really wanted to provide a training format that limits their amount of time off the road. And so we've developed a regional training spaces to really fit those major markets, where are the majority of our partners so that they can travel there, receive some of that hands-on. Especially understanding, from a regional basis, if we sell specific products in that market, we can train specific to that. Not a, everybody gets everything, because that's not successful in terms of, if you don't see the product often enough, you've wasted that individual's time.

Tyler Verri: And then finally, the immersion one, which is factory training. Bringing them back to the Sub-Zero campus in Madison, Wisconsin, immersion into the Sub-Zero culture. So that's usually multiday training, it involves at least two days of travel to get here. Madison, not a major airport, so some of those issues we run into from a travel perspective, but it's a huge commitment of time for our partners to be able to take a week off the road to getting here. But that's where once they've made that investment in the organization that they're joining, or have been a part of it for a significant amount of time, that's usually where that fits, where you come back to the factory and get indoctrinated in what we're doing and how we're doing it.

Sarah Nicastro: Okay, good. So what I want to talk about next is some of what you're covering in this training. So you had said, before we get to the technical stuff, which obviously is important so that they can be effective in the service they're providing, but before you get to that, you really want to do some training on the Sub-Zero culture, the Sub-Zero brand. And then there's the technical training, and you and I had also talked about a really heavy focus you have right now on soft skills training. So tell us about some of those areas and what type of insights you're striving to provide through the training, and then secondly, why that soft skills component is so critical.

Tyler Verri: Absolutely. Yeah, soft skills is a key component of the customer satisfaction. We've noticed, it's not just fixing the product in the customer's home, but it's also, now you have to fix the customer. They're frustrated, you have to step back and resell them why did they make the investment in the product that they did. And these individuals aren't salespeople, but they have to put on that salesperson hat of reselling why do they buy it, and the product is fixed now, but what do we need to do as we move forward. So soft skills, for us, we had been doing it and developing it regionally, and one of the things I wanted to shore up was consistency of how we deployed that. So I actually spent some time working with our sales and marketing team, and they had created a selling skills track for their dealer network a couple of years ago.

Tyler Verri: So we took the fundamentals of that training, and really transformed it into an essential skills training to fit the way that we engage with our partners. And we're actually going to be piloting soon with our partners, and it really aligns so that we have a seamless transition when a customer goes into the showroom, when they're interested in looking at getting our products, and then they work with a dealer, and next they work with the installer. And if necessary, they have to work with a service provider and receive service, we want to make sure that those experiences, being their third party individuals, are really aligned to the brand and what we're doing. So that's been a big push for me, how do we ensure that continuity all the way through the process and aligning with what have they been told upfront, and making sure it's consistent all the way through that chain.

Sarah Nicastro: So that continuity that you're striving for, whether it's from the showroom to the dealer to the install to the service, when you think about it in the context of the customer experience, what are some of the priorities in terms of that customer experience you're looking to provide all the way through? What are some of the characteristics that you focus on teaching so that the customers experience those characteristics from the showroom to the dealer to the install to the service?

Tyler Verri: For us, I think it's focusing on luxury. Our appliances are pretty expensive, and making sure that we're tying to the luxury, as well as the quality of our product. Now, everything that has a computer or technology in it, it will break down at some point. So that's where, for us, you've invested a significant amount of money, so how do we make sure that you're realizing the investment, you're understanding that the value of the product, but you're also understanding the use and care. What do you, as a customer, need to do to maintain it to ensure it's operating at the proper state, as well as all of the features and functions that are a part of the product? Because I think that's a lot of the things that are overlooked, that it's, "Well, it cooks or keeps things cold." Well, there's so much more to it, and if you don't have everybody through that process, continuing to tout the features and functions, that's where you start to break down of, "Well, it was really expensive, but it keeps things as cold as my other refrigerator that I spent half the cost on."

Sarah Nicastro: So when you think about the soft skills perspective in particular, and let's take service for example, what are some of the soft skills that you're focusing on so that when that service technician goes into a customer's home, they know to do X, Y, or Z? Or not do A, B or C, right?

Tyler Verri: For sure. Well, for the course that we've constructed, we really have them do prework before they even show up, to think about what are some of the experiences that they've had as a customer, to really put them in a frame of mind of, "As me, the customer, what would I expect?" And so we put them through that exercise. And then when they come on site, it's really understanding what their role is and making sure that they're following suit with asking specific questions, pointing them in the right direction and not, "Well, that's not my job, or I don't know who sold it to you or gave you those benefits."

Tyler Verri: So it's not placing the blame, it's understanding what's going on. And they have enough knowledge of the network to say, "Here's what I know, but I think you need more information. I can get you to a dealer or a showroom where they can provide you more tips and tricks around how you do certain things." So making sure that they really have the skills to break down the customer, to make them understand that there is a network of people out there willing to support any of the needs that they have around the products, versus, "Well, this is my only hope, is this individual, and they didn't give me what I need so now I'm done."

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah. It's an interesting conversation, thinking about how important it is to prioritize soft skills in training when you are a luxury brand, right? So I was having a conversation recently with another luxury brand, and just talking about, from a customer experience perspective, if you're selling a premium product and you're sending folks on site that maybe have really strong technical knowledge but are not polished in how to present to the customer, it's not going to give the premium or white glove experience that you want those customers to have, knowing that they've made a significant investment with your product. So it really is important. I honestly think that the correlation between a focus on soft skills and how that impacts the customer experience is an important correlation, whether it is a premium product or not, but even more so, right, when you are selling something like that. So that makes sense. So you have been leveraging a learning management system to help you keep track of and manage all of this training, so tell us a bit about that and how it's been helping you?

Tyler Verri: Absolutely. So my amazing training team spent a year developing and building out this system. We actually just rolled it out in March, and we're already starting to realize some of the value of just the speed with which we can deliver training now, and roll it out to our partners. Whether it's through all the three mediums that I mentioned, e-learnings, regional trainings, factory trainings, the ability to get that out there and have that visibility to our partners is critical. For us, the really big part that we're able to gain from this is the reporting on who's done what and when, down to the individual technician level. And we can slice and dice the data to really understand within a territory, do we have an issue with a specific product, do we need to level up some of the training, have they attended the training, but there's still issues with first call completes, what can we do, what do we need to develop?

Tyler Verri: And allowing us to continuously improve what we've developed, and or develop new content to fill some of the gaps that we're starting to notice based on what the data is telling us. In the past, it was spreadsheet upon spreadsheet and manual work, and so to do this it would take a tremendous amount of time. Now it's a few buttons, you're clicking, you're building reports, and you can provide it out to those individuals within the field, and we really have a better view of what's going on. So it's still in its infancy in what we can do, but it's been incredible to see the quick wins that we've had with getting people in, and really pushing some of our partners to make sure to sign everybody up, to get people access. Because it was amazing to see the amount of people that actually did not have access into our system and the tools that we had available to them. So, the ability to make them more efficient through this process has been great to see as well.

Sarah Nicastro: Now, do you correlate any of that data that you're getting on the training completion? And looking at how that relates to first time fix and therefore, perhaps, effectiveness of the training or what have you, do you correlate that at all to customer feedback?

Tyler Verri: Yeah. And that's one of the goals as we are now rolling it out and have better visibility. So we're creating the baseline of tying that to the customer feedback, CSAT for service, installation, first call completes, on the product that we've trained on. And then also measuring our trainers and their effectiveness, because that's been the biggest challenge of, it's a tremendous investment to build out training, to have trainers, and we want to make sure that we're proving our value and showing the worth of the team. Otherwise, it's very easy to have that cut from the budget and back to the days that we had in the past. And so that's our goal, to be able to track and trend and really show that we're moving the needle.

Sarah Nicastro: That makes sense. And I think it just gives you the insight you need to create effective training, rather than just creating something that you hope will resonate or hope will work, and throwing it out there and crossing your fingers, so that makes sense. And I think it'll be interesting to see what you find when you cross reference the insights from the learning management system with the customer satisfaction data, so that you can really start to pinpoint areas that you need to focus more on, or training that maybe you thought you created perfectly that you need to go back and look at why is this causing this reaction or what have you. So that makes a lot of sense. So the next question, Tyler, I wanted to ask is, what do you feel are the biggest missteps that companies make around training, and what advice would you provide on avoiding those?

Tyler Verri: So, few missteps? And I think I have a different idea kind of taking it from internal, obviously we're working with external partners, so some of the things that the partner organizations... For me, there's no secret. The technician of today is different than the technician was 20 or 30 years ago, especially for our industry. I mean, just the sheer number of products that we developed 20 years ago versus what we developed today, it's tremendous, and the complexity of the products is so vast. So keeping that in mind that I'm going to go back to, they don't invest enough in building training in different formats to meet the way that people learn.

Tyler Verri: Whether it's a young technician that's very used to technology that will embrace watching a YouTube type video to learn how to do it, versus you have an older technician that they want to be hands on, they don't need to hook up a computer to diagnose it, they can do it by listening and testing certain things. It's trying to find the way to navigate both of these worlds. So, for me, the biggest takeaway and misstep is making sure that you engage with your participants in training. So survey them, talk to their managers, what works, what doesn't, be flexible to their needs. And as I mentioned, the training program should encompass continuous improvement along that way to ensure that we're meeting the needs of everyone that's taking and participating in that training.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, that makes sense. And I think that, going back to what we just talked about with the learning management system, I don't know that I would say that it would be a misstep to not leverage something like that, but I do think that it is a significant opportunity to understand the impact your training is having. So I would think that would be an important area of focus for folks as well.

Tyler Verri: Second misstep, for me, is when times are good or you're busy, training is usually shifted to the back burner, and when it's done right it should be a part of your organization. So really making training a part of your culture, whether it's biweekly, weekly, monthly, I think it's evaluating what fits for your organization. Everybody's going to be a bit different, but showing that focus and commitment and investment to your employees and training is critical, because I think it's very cyclical of, "All right, we have time now, let's cram in a bunch of training," and it's the wrong mindset. It should be continuously learning, and in making that investment and enhancing knowledge, creating those efficiencies which ultimately should make you more money.

Sarah Nicastro: I would think there's also a psychological component to that of, if continual training as a part of the culture and ongoing learning is just something that is built in, it feels different than if all of a sudden we're going to focus on this, which means you must be doing something wrong. So we don't always do this, but now we have this focus on X because you're falling down in this area. That then gives a totally different feeling to someone than being able to bob and weave a bit with something you always consistently do, by just feeding the insights of what you feel like those folks need to focus on, rather than having those periods of not doing any training and then heavily focusing on something.

Tyler Verri: For sure. And one of the last points, I think, from a misstep is the mindset of, "Well, I provide training all the time." Only to have them leave to a competitor, or the job has high turnover so they make the bare minimum investments in training. I think it really is seek to understand why do employees leave, build a culture that can continue to keep them coming back every day. I look at it as create a pay scale or a recognition program that reinforces training, do so many classes, achieve a certain level, you get a wage increase or time off. What fits your culture and your organizations and your employees, figure out how you do that to move that training process and program forward.

Sarah Nicastro: That makes sense too. Good. All right. Good. Well, any other comments or closing thoughts?

Tyler Verri: No. I just want to say thank you, Sarah, for the opportunity to share with the community. To me, it's exciting. I'm very passionate about what can I share, the learnings that we've had here, because I learned so much from others. Whether it's the same industry or not, we're all in this together to create that customer experience that really leaves the customer saying, "Wow." And telling their friends, because that's ultimately what it's about, word of mouth, spreading that way. And I realize everybody's trying to monetize social media and all the different aspects, but it really is hearing it straight from the individual that had that experience and selling it that way, that's really been the cornerstone of our company and has driven where we're going from a customer service perspective.

Sarah Nicastro: Well, I appreciate you being here, Tyler, and sharing your perspective. I mean, that is what we're all about, so we love to hear from different folks and learn about what they're up to, how they're innovating, how they're tackling challenges. And training isn't a topic that we've discussed a whole lot, even though it's a very, very important one. So, thank you for coming on and for sharing today.

Tyler Verri: Absolutely.

Sarah Nicastro: You can find more content on training, on engagement, on customer experience by visiting us at www.futureoffieldservice.com. You can also find us on LinkedIn, as well as Twitter @thefutureoffs. The Future of Field Service podcast is published in partnership with IFS, you can learn more about IFS Service Management by visiting www.ifs.com. As always, thank you for listening. All right.

By Sarah Nicastro, Creator, Future of Field Service

Perusing tech news headlines or looking at conference agendas, you see AI everywhere. While you innately know better, with the messages being delivered, it can be easy to be persuaded into thinking, “I bet AI would solve all of my problems.” We had Seth Earley, author of The Artificial Intelligence Powered Enterprise, on the podcast not long ago to discuss why he feels AI has failed to deliver on its promise to businesses everywhere and his advice for how derive value from the technology.

The AI Conundrum

Seth points to a few reasons he feels AI is failing to deliver on its promise. The first is what I eluded to in the intro – the hype surrounding the technology. “One of the biggest challenges we have with AI and machine learning is the tremendous amount of hype in the marketplace. AI is an umbrella term and the technologies we're seeing today have a history of components and underlying algorithms that have really been around for decades,” he says. “We see anything with an algorithm being called AI and what that does is it creates the wrong expectations.”

According to Seth, this hype leads organizations to look at AI as something that is brand new which feeds unrealistic expectations. “I think the big problem is that organizations are looking at AI as something that's brand new, and that it is going to solve problems that they haven't been able to solve,” he says. “In some cases that may be true, but it also creates unrealistic expectations. That's partly because whenever there's a big shift in technology it creates uncertainty about what this means to the business. This leads people to start making investments without really understanding the capabilities of the technology, or what processes they needed to really address.”

Seth isn’t saying AI isn’t valuable, but rather that companies need to look beyond the hype into the realities of not only the capabilities of the technology but, more importantly, what the business case is for their company for AI. “We see a lot of money being wasted on AI projects that are trying to boil the ocean or solve very intractable problems,” he says. “I think the biggest challenge is that many organizations don't have the basic foundational elements in place. Foundational processes, or the quality data that they need, and they're not necessarily understanding the nature of the problem they're trying to solve before going down this path.”

Advice for AI Success

To derive value from AI, Seth offers some advice to help organizations avoid the hype and unrealistic expectations and look at the technology through the lens of how it can solve business pain points. The first step is to know what those paint points are – to know what problem you are trying to solve. “The foundational piece is understanding what problem you're working on solving. And then, looking very carefully at the technology and saying, "What can this technology do, realistically?" he says. “There's a lot of successes out there, but there's a lot of failures. The reason for those failures really has to do with a lack of understanding of the true capabilities of the tools, and the processes that people are trying to enhance, and the business outcome that they're looking for. And, of course, not having the data.”

With the hype surrounding it, AI can be portrayed as a superpower-like technology – but the reality is, it isn’t magic. Like all technologies, for it to work for your business requires a strong foundation. “You can’t automate something you don't understand, and you can't automate a mess,” says Seth. “While AI is powerful, you still have to teach the technology about your business – your product, your services, your solutions, your customers. You have to give it the terminology that you're using, and the concepts that are important to the business. An ontology is basically a framework for that. I think the key piece for leaders to understand is that this is not magic, and there's a lot of foundational work that needs to be in place to make AI work. It's not sexy, it's really the basic blocking and tackling. You still have hard work to do; governance is important, and metrics.”

Part of this important foundational work is knowing the needs of your customers. “A lot of organizations fall down by not necessarily understanding the needs of their customers,” says Seth. For instance, we worked with a company that wanted to do personalization for their customers. So, we built the architecture, had some algorithms. And then, at the end of the day, they couldn't define what the personalized content should be. They couldn't say, well, how is this audience different than this audience? What do they need? They didn't know. They didn't know enough about the customer in order to use the technology to personalize that experience.”

Seth suggests starting small and building upon success. “Starting off with big, ambitious goals that stretch the organization and stretch the technology is inherently risky,” Seth explains. “That doesn't mean you can't have a big vision of what AI can do for the organization but going through the process of planning and doing small experiments will yield a lot of value. These experiments deliver learning and maturity that needs to be built up in order to be successful.”

By Tom Paquin

This is part of an ongoing series on the state and standards of service management software in 2020. For the first article in this series, click here.

When defining service management software, it’s typical to measure the worth of software by the breadth of capabilities that are offered, but that can be very misleading. In 2007, an Apple iPhone and Motorola Sidekick both had web browsers, but there’s no comparison between the depth of execution between the two, so everything here should be taken with a grain of salt.

So where do you even begin when defining the capabilities of service software? What is one expected feature that is so mature it’s a lifeline for service businesses? What is the latest killer app poised to shake up customer expectations or save a ton of money? To cover all of this, I will massively oversimplify the nuances of service software by putting them into three broad categories: Service delivery, operations, and customer experience.

In the coming weeks I’ll break down each, but today, let’s take a look at them holistically.

Service Delivery Capabilities
We’ll start with the most basic set of capabilities, and usually where people start (and many end) when considering field service management software. This is about as boring as it gets on its surface: Contract management, appointment management, Service-level agreement management, and so on. These are the bread-and-butter service utilities, usually with a direct paper counterpart that they’ve been implemented to replace.

More interesting capabilities typically go beyond the act of cataloging service and serve to enhance service delivery. To borrow a phrase from Forrester Research, these would be “Business Technology” utilities rather than simple IT: tools to help win, service and retain customers. The most prevalent of these tools are things like knowledge management and on-the-job training utilities, which take many forms. We’ve spoken a lot about Augmented Reality recently and with good reason: it’s a quick way to upskill technicians without having to over-encumber a business with a bunch of technological overhead.

Operational Capabilities
For the purposes of this massive oversimplification, I’m going to limit this to the movement of people, tools, and parts through a system but here we’re basically talking about one of my favorite topics: Optimization. Generally we speak about planning and scheduling optimization purely through the spectrum of technicians and appointments. Good systems allow appointments to be scheduled through multiple channels and optimize appointment delivery. The best tools can dot that optimization quickly, and with the power of AI, and provide real-time updates as the nature of job delivery continues.

Further than that, parts and reverse logistics management also become necessary (and frequently overlooked!) pillars of optimization. Within that there are a wide varity of considerations, as well. Getting a full operational picture, end to end, is functionally the key to service success, and it’s where a lot of companies fall flat.

Customer Experience Capabilities
The orthodoxy police will lose their mind when they hear this from me, but I would argue this is the most overrated capability set within service. Yes—customer experience is important, but customer experience is not piloted exclusively from customer management utilities. The truth of the matter is that customer attrition doesn’t come from customer relationship management in some sort of automated system, it comes from your technicians working efficiently and delighting customers.

I’m by no means implying that customer experience is not important, and there are certainly transformative experiences to have within CX. Good customer experience utilities enable frictionless handoffs that guide the customer through the service lifecycle, but their main purpose is to automate redundant tasks and reduce the load for the back-office staff, which has its clear benefits and drawbacks. Engaging and forward-thinking systems build chatbots to resolve common issues and routine maintenance without tying up a line or forcing a customer to wait on the phone for a human. CX exists as a steward through the various service systems that you have, not as the centerpiece of service delivery.

That pretty much does it for our high-level capability overview. There are naturally several glossed-over capabilities here and we’ll dig into greater detail about what makes those capabilities integral to service in the coming weeks. Next time, we’ll dig into the meat of service delivery. See you then!

Tim Baines, Professor of Operations Strategy & Executive Director of the Advanced Services Group at Aston Business School, joins Sarah for an engaging deep dive into the forces driving businesses on the journey to Servitization and outcomes-based service and the framework his group has created to help guide organizations through that journey.

Sarah Nicastro: Welcome to the Future of Field Service podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Today, I'm excited to welcome to the podcast, Tim Baines of Aston Business School to discuss the Advanced Services Transformation. We all know that organizations are somewhere on the journey to Servitization and outcomes-based service, and we do a lot of coverage on those topics. Tim Baines is the Professor of Operations Strategy and the Executive Director of the Advanced Services Group at Aston Business School. And they do a lot of work and research on these topics that I think our listeners today are going to find incredibly valuable. Tim, thank you so much for being with us today. I appreciate you joining the podcast.

Sarah Nicastro: So, before we dig into some of the insights that you have with your research, can you tell our listeners a bit about yourself and the work that you do with the Advanced Services Group at Aston?

Tim Baines: So, my work is all about the Servitization of manufacturing. It's all about helping companies who are coming from traditional product base to compete through services and particularly advanced services. And we use the term advanced services to really represent a cluster of high value, disruptive business models that manufacturers can adopt to help them compete inside the marketplace. My work in manufacturing goes back to 25 years. I started my career working as a technician apprenticeship inside manufacturing industry, and then moved slowly but surely through business and then into academia. So, all my work has been about manufacturing operations. Our research center was created specifically to really push forward the agenda of Servitization, both in the UK and internationally.

Tim Baines: I'd like to think of us very much as like the center of gravity for both the academic and the industrial community coming together to debate, understand Servitization and move forward with this innovation.

Sarah Nicastro: That's very cool. So, you mentioned you've been in the manufacturing space for about 25 years. I've been in this role or a similar role of covering this industry for about 13. I came into this evolution about midway through your experiences, but it's been very interesting for me interviewing service leaders and manufacturing business leaders day in and day out. How this has evolved, and what these opportunities are, and really how far we've come with a common understanding of why this trend is so important and how relevant it is to the future of these businesses. And then of course, as we'll talk through today, really getting into the complexity of such change. And coming up with the plan for a successful journey.

Sarah Nicastro: So, I'm really interested to hear your perspectives today. So, I've had a look at some of the research you've done on Servitization in the Advanced Services Group. And as I mentioned to you before we kick this off, I think it's excellent. I think it's clear that it comes from a deep understanding of the industry, and it's really quite easy to understand which I think makes it very helpful for companies in charting their own path. So one of the pieces of content that I had a look at is, what the Advanced Services Group has identified as four forces behind Servitization, two of those internal and two external. So I'm hoping to start, you can talk with us about those four forces and give us an overview of what they are.

Tim Baines: Sarah, if I can, I'll just take you a bit of a step back first of all, just to comment upon some of the introduction you gave to Servitization. And if I may, almost explain why it's such an important phenomena for manufacturing businesses. And the story goes like this, that, as a university professor, as a senior professor in a top university in the UK, one of our roles is to be almost like an authority and a custodian of this knowledge upon a phenomenon. And the phenomenon that's interested me all the way through my career, is this manufacturing operations, on what does good look like? And I think it's very interesting when you think about it from the perspective of an academic. Of course, we come across a lot of very senior business leaders that are engaged with business transformation, and they're in the trenches, like they're bringing about this change.

Tim Baines: As a professor, quite often you have the luxury of taking a step back and reflecting upon the trajectory industry as followed over hundreds of years. And it's the very popular term and quite the idea of a paradigm for manufacturing. And we have coming out of Germany Industry 4.0 as a paradigm. And it might be shocking to some people to understand that not all professors subscribe to Industry 4.0 as a Fourth Paradigm for manufacturing. This is a very technological view of the evolution of industry. And there is another view, which is almost like the social changes which are taking place inside industry. It's right behind what you're seeing with Servitization.

Tim Baines: And the story goes, something like this, that, if you go back to the very birthplace of what we recognize as an irregular manufacturing now. You go back, you know what the concept of a factory, what was the world's first factory that we recognize? It was actually, Boulton and Watt's manufacturing in Birmingham, UK manufacturing steam engines. And then you have Henry Ford coming along and creating something that we recognize as mass production. And that was the paradigm. And in the 1980s, and 1990s, and the 2000, we have this concept of lean. And everybody's now thinking, "Well, what is the next thing? What are we going to do if Industry 4.0 comes out?" And Industry 4.0 impart, is part of actually, in which it's an incomplete part, because everything we've seen so far, it's been a combination of a reaction to both market forces and what you're seeing in terms of technological change.

Tim Baines: And where you are today with Servitization, it's really about a shift in our understanding of what it looks like to be a manufacturing business. Because the bottom line is, that for many industries, the model of production and consumption, make, sell, dump, that's gone. The rich carbon based business models of the past in many industries, are on a very limited timeline. What's happening, is society is moving away from the consumption of products, moving towards the consumption of service businesses. Developed economies like UK, like the States, they are service based economies. And Servitization is all about manufacturing businesses responding to the shift in the societal appetite for services over society's appetite for products. And not just services which are about repairing a product, or providing spare parts for product, but services which provide outcomes.

Tim Baines: So when you think about the big picture that we're seeing, Servitization to me is the shift towards this new emerging paradigm about what it means to be a manufacturing business. And most industries will get into that paradigm sooner or later. And when you think about the forces which are causing it to happen, it's the same forces which have shaped the paradigms for manufacturing over the past 200 years. They are the pull from society coupled with the technological innovations. Innovation takes place as the interplay between market pull and technology push. And that's what we're seeing. Manufacturing businesses and a lot of service businesses are all being caught up in this, that they might not recognize it, that's what's actually happening.

Tim Baines: So when you think about service transformation side of business, two of the big macro pressures which are determining what's going to happen, are these two sets of forces on the outside. There are others, but they're the two which are first and foremost to keep in mind. That, change is inevitable, it's going to happen, the only thing you have control over is to some extent the rate of which is going to happen. Does that start to set that context for you?

Sarah Nicastro: It's one of the best explanations of Servitization that I've ever heard. I think it's perfect. It makes total sense to me, and I think it will make absolute sense to our listeners. And I think that to your point, or at least if I'm understanding, one of the points you made is, as a business is considering how this journey applies to them specifically, it's important to make sure that their next steps are not dictated only by the technological forces, but also by those market forces.

Tim Baines: Exactly. Yeah.

Sarah Nicastro: So really understanding that social and societal aspect of, what's at a very high level driving this need for change. And I'm sure we'll talk more about this today, but I do think that that is an area where people veer off course because you have these advanced technologies and they're really exciting and they're great enablers. But if you start to go down a path of leveraging them and deploying them without a clear understanding of what those market forces are for your business, and ultimately what your customers want from you related to those outcomes and those experiences, then you're not looking at the big picture. So I think it's a great explanation and that makes total sense to me.

Tim Baines: And what you've just described, I see that in businesses around the world, and it's not a conversation where the technology is more important than customers and markets, it's a conversation as both are important, it's the meshing together. So, when we look at this change process, when you look at changes taking place inside a manufacturing business, and I'm referring to manufacturing businesses, but it's not exclusively manufacturing businesses by any means, but let's just focus on those for a moment. You've got a situation where change is going to happen either as a reaction where you are forced into, make a change because of the circumstances, or it's going to happen, because you are looking forward and you are trying to shape the future for your business.

Tim Baines: And when we look at Servitization, when we look at those businesses which have really been at the forefront of their adoption of the more advanced services, and I'm thinking about some of the cases, people like Rolls-Royce for example, it's probably the best example I can think of in terms of their development of... Well, people recognize power by the hour.

Tim Baines: When you look at somebody like Rolls-Royce, I barely manage to see it, but I understand that Rolls-Royce were pulled into this space, and they've been pulled. And a lot of businesses are looking at people like Rolls-Royce, and they're saying, "How did they do it?" Well, they got pulled into this space. But that doesn't explain how businesses should do it, because it's about how you shape the future can be informed by what people at Rolls-Royce are doing, but it's not about following their path.

Tim Baines: And it's about looking forward, understanding how technology and how markets can be combined, and how you can exploit those through these more advanced services. And the advanced services, we recognize them in various ways. Some people will talk about them as being outcome based contracts, or performance based contracts. So, I purposely used the term advanced services because I don't want people just to think about it as a contract. It's much bigger than that. It's a collection of different forms of business models, which are high value and disruptive. And really speak to the shift towards an outcome based society, that's what we're talking about. Responding to an outcome based society.

Sarah Nicastro: Yes. I had a call recently with someone who was a service leader within an organization. And he was asking me some questions around, "Well, we've deployed IOT and no one wants to buy it. None of our customers want to buy it." And I said, "Well, how are you marketing it to them?" I mean, are you telling them that you've deployed IOT, so you want them to buy it? Because one, they probably don't understand what that means. And two, it doesn't matter to them. That's a tool your company has within its arsenal to provide an outcome to your customer, but that is not the outcome, right? So we could get into a whole discussion I'm sure about different examples and whatnot.

Tim Baines: We have a separate conversation that we ought to have, which is really about the form of those business models.

Sarah Nicastro: Yes.

Tim Baines: And about how you describe those business models, and how you make sure that the language you use to describe those business models, isn't simply a replay of what it is that you do with that inspired your organization to deliver the outcome. Or it isn't overly suggestive that says that, it's always going to be a panacea, because that's not true either. So, we'll park it for the moment, maybe we should come back and speak about the business model specifically. I know you're interested today in transformation.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah. That's a really good point, so I'm going to make a note of that and I'd love to have you back. And the other point that we should probably not dig into it in an effort to stay on track with what we've defined today is, you talked about these companies really are either going to be forced into this change, or they're going to see this opportunity and be proactive about making this change. Right? And one of the conversations we've had a lot of this year is, how COVID-19 has played a role in that first idea of some of these companies that were lagging. In either accepting that this change is a reality or they had accepted it, but they were lagging on taking action on actually embarking on this journey, have been propelled forward.

Sarah Nicastro: And I'm really interested to see over the next few years, how that plays out in a spur of progress through this journey. So I would love to talk with you about that too. What?

Tim Baines: Yeah, we should embark on that section.

Sarah Nicastro: We would be here for a few hours obviously.

Tim Baines: It's good.

Sarah Nicastro: So, I will write those two topics down and we'll have you back soon. Okay. So we talked about the need to consider both the market forces and the technological forces that are leading to this. Tell us about the other two forces that play a role here.

Tim Baines: I think the way to think about this is, when we work with a manufacturing business to try understand what's happening. First of all, you have to be quite clear, some people will talk about it as a shift from products to services. Now, we don't use our language. And the reason that we don't use it is that, we don't want to suggest to a company that it has to abandon products and production, there's a danger in that. People who are today in the production operations of a company, it can cause them anxiety. We don't need to worry about that. So we don't talk about shift, we don't talk about transition, we talk about transformation. And we'll talk about Servitization in simple terms, for a manufacturing company, building revenue from services rather than just products alone.

Tim Baines: And we're interested in a particular type of services, and these advanced services. So we're about a business which makes product looking to expand itself, not just to deliver services which support the product's condition, but to deliver services which ultimately deliver the outcome that a product enables. So we're about providing the shift from selling, gas boilers to how it is to selling kits to service. A shift from selling air conditioning units, to selling cooling as a service. From selling automobiles and cars, to selling mobility as a service. That's the shift that we're talking about. Now, when we look back, and we do quite a lot of work where we've looked at manufacturing businesses and included in our mix of manufacturing businesses, we've studied are companies that you will know, and people like Rolls-Royce, Caterpillar, Goodyear, Alstam with opening up MICS, we've done case studies in all these companies, and we've looked back at the journey they've been through and we tried to rationalize it.

Tim Baines: When you think about the contribution that the research community makes to this conversation is, it's all about providing the frameworks which help people to understand what's going on is, we providing for them the skeleton, which they can then dress them in a way which reflects their organization. We're providing the bare bones of, this is what the change looks like. So looking back, when we try and make sense of what we see, we see an organizational transformation, because that's what it is. It isn't just about selling a few services, it's about an organizational transformation because it's the organization which delivers the services, they don't just appear. So it's about an organizational transformation from production to also providing services, especially with these more advanced services in organizational transformation. The success, and the rate of that transformation is being determined by forces, which you can group into four categories.

Tim Baines: Two, we've already spoke about, the market pool, the customer's appetite for their services and the technology push. If you go to a group of customers and they really want these services, they'll pull you into this space. If you've got lots and lots of technology and it's everywhere, you're going to spot the opportunities. So, the interplay between the market pull and technology push, are very, very powerful. A set of forces all about where you are in a value network. So, if you as an organization are dealing directly with the customer, would be interested in acquiring these more advanced services from you. You're going to find it easier to gain traction and likely more successful than an organization that is much, much further down the value chain.

Tim Baines: So an organization which is perhaps developing an engine, which then goes on to a gearbox, which goes into a generator, which is sold through a distributor specified by an architect, ends up inside a building, which is rented by somebody, that becomes a more complicated situation. So, where you are in the value network affects you. Almost like culture, the conditions inside your organization. If you've got a management which is committed to this, you move faster. If you've got a management which is skeptical, you move slow. It's very interesting. Even during COVID-19, people react to change in different ways. And we have seen, one of the businesses we're working with in this space, are very... Up until recently, we're starting to incubate some of these things, there's more advanced services.

Tim Baines: COVID-19 hits, and this particular business as kind of abandoned its plans to move into services, move back to pushing boxes. And when you say, "Why?" Well, the managing director of this business, he's looking forward to his pension, he's only got another 18 months in the position. So he is making sure that his business fulfills those needs he has to make sure that his pension part is there. So, that's an indication of the internal culture inside the organization. Even people like you and I are going out there and absolutely advocates for this, and believe it, and he might even believe it in himself, or when he's thinking about his own pension part, it's a different story. So you've got these two sets of forces, which are more about the positioning of the organization, both externally and internally, which are affecting it. And what really, we think that all the shape, the rate in which an organization progresses can really be determined by those four sets of forces. Does that fit with what you've seen before?

Sarah Nicastro: Yes. I think so. And I think that, really those organizational forces are what either propel a company through or really get them stuck in the muck, you know?

Tim Baines: Yes.

Sarah Nicastro: And so, yeah. It's very interesting. Okay. So, we talked about the four forces. Now those four forces are leading companies through phases of this journey Servitization. There's four phases that you've identified, so can you tell us what those four phases are?

Tim Baines: Yeah. Okay. So, it's interesting. You can approach the conversation about this transformation from different angles. Quite often, I would actually start to talk about first and foremost, those almost like stages of organizational maturity and then think about the forces. We've spoke about the forces first and now we'll talk about stages of organizational maturity. It doesn't matter, it's just really... For people listening to us today, I guess it's just a flag at this stage that, you can think about the transformation from two different perspectives. And this stages of organizational maturity is the second phase, the second way of thinking about it. So people will come and they will say, "Okay, I'm interested in Servitization. But I don't know what it is, I don't know what type of services I might offer. Well, I need to go buy in a more senior executive. Which customers should I pilot with? How am I going to get paid for it? What investment? What will I do with technology partners? I'm going to have to have a new organization, what will I do with existing products?" They're overwhelmed. Okay.

Tim Baines: Very often when we start a conversation with people about Servitization, they're absolutely overwhelmed. They'll say all those things too. They'll typically say something like, "Should we have a separate organization for services?" And we'll say, "You might, but you don't need to worry about it yet. You can push that forward." And that's what this transformation journey is all about. It's about saying, "Look, there's lots of these decisions that you're going to need to make. A lot of decisions leading to actions." But you need not worry about all those things upfront. When you look retrospectively at the businesses which have been successful and had success in this area and map it out, you will see they'll go through four phases.

Tim Baines: And when you start to think about the decisions and actions relative to those four phases, the whole thing becomes simpler. And the four phases that typically they will go through are, the first phase of exploration, where they're thinking about whether Servitization is relevant to them, they'll be asking questions such as, "Are we're going to make any money out of it? Do we need senior management support?" Et cetera. That's this exploration phase. If a company is successful, it's exploration, it will mean that they've built up a conviction inside the company there is value in Servitization for them. Now, engagement is where companies start to experiment with different business models based around services. The whole conversation based about, what is a business model? And what's a revenue? And what's a service delivery system? It's a separate conversation to have, which we haven't got time to go in here.

Tim Baines: But the engagement phase is about unpicking what that business model looks like, going to customers, understanding pains and gains, bringing it all together, testing it, piloting it, reviewing it. And it's all about the organization demonstrating to itself that there's value in this stuff. Once the organization has really got to that stage, we've got evidence. We believe it, we can see it with evidence that there is opportunity here. Then the organization moves into scaling, and scaling as you can imagine is all about rolling out new customer value propositions, new business models in different regions. Once it gets through scaling, it then will move into a phase of exploitation. And exploitation is where it's looking for efficiencies, so it's delivery. So if you take an organization like Rolls-Royce aerospace, quite a lot of what you see at Rolls-Royce will be an exploitation phase.

Tim Baines: What's the initiatives or where the efficiencies will be about ensuring effectiveness of their value services. Whereas if you take companies that we have worked with in the past, companies that you might not be so familiar with, but we've worked with people like, Initiator and stuff like that. They're much more of this exploration phase where they're trying to see whether there's an opportunity for them in this space. But in terms of these four phases there of exploration, engagement, expansion, and exploitation, the value of thinking about it like that is, you can look at it and you can say, "There's conversations which are typical to this phase, and that's where I am. So I only need to focus on these and I'll get these things right before they're moved to that phase, and then to move to that phase, and then to move to that phase."

Tim Baines: And your progression through these phases is not really prescriptive. I wouldn’t go to a company and say, "The first thing you must do is, A then B then C." Because of course companies situations change. A framework like this is helpful to give a structure to what's going on, but it doesn't prescribe. It doesn't say, "You must do this, and you must do that, and you must do the other." Because of course, the entry points differ, companies differ. So I just said a lot there, is there anything particular that you'd like me to dig into or clarify?

Sarah Nicastro: So I think it makes sense. And I think what you mentioned at the beginning, that sense of overwhelm that companies often come to you with, this framework helps minimize or reduce that overwhelm, right? If you can say, "Here's where you are, so let's just focus on this box first." Right? And these specific steps that commonly happen in this phase, and before you worry about this end of the journey. So I think that makes sense. And I think that one of the points that I always bring up to folks is, I think this journey applies to businesses of many sizes. Obviously there's different scales, but those societal and social themes that you talked about really are trickling down from the largest companies all the way through.

Sarah Nicastro: And so when you think about that, that means that at some point, a company like Rolls-Royce has developed a team specific to, this Servitization stuff. But in some of the midsize and smaller companies, oftentimes it's someone that's leading this charge at least initially in addition to doing their "day job." Right? And so that overwhelm can be crippling to making progress because it just seems insurmountable. So I think something like these phases that talks about, like you've said, it's not prescriptive, but it's based off of interacting with a lot of different companies and observing those commonalities. It gives people some areas of focus to ease some of that overwhelm. So I think that makes good sense. Go ahead.

Tim Baines: No, I was just going to add, it was interesting, because if you look at that roadmap, that framework, and it's published in academic journals and it's on our website, et cetera. That came from this research, which observed these case studies of businesses. And I use companies like Caterpillar, and Goodyear, Rolls-Royce because you'd be familiar with them. But we also study small businesses just like you've said. And we work a lot with small businesses. Small businesses because of the committee, incredibly agile. And it's very good. So, one of the businesses we work with is a company. It's a British company, it's looking to sell its product in China, and it, well, sorry, it's not looking to sell its products in China, it's trying to break into the Chinese market. And to do so, it's saying, "Right. We're not going to try and sell rice milling machine, we're going to sell rice milling it to service." A small company, relatively sneaky, but it fits exactly what we've seen.

Tim Baines: That's one of the tests to frameworks like this is that, they have to be relevant to businesses large and small, and they help you just get this clarity about what it is that you're trying to do. I mean, some of the, I'm sorry. It's interesting when you look back at some of the management literature. So the frameworks that people use in everyday business operations, frameworks like SWOT analysis, they're just valuable, straightforward, simple frameworks. And they've been around for many years and it's that type of framework, which I think is most helpful to businesses, not something which is too convoluted, it's too complex to understand.

Sarah Nicastro: Absolutely. So I was curious to ask, Tim, right now, based on the interactions you have and what you've witnessed in the market, in those four phases, where do you see the majority of organizations today?

Tim Baines: Exploration and engagement. Absolutely. We have two businesses that work with the research center. And one is a consortium based around large businesses, and the second is a consortium based around small businesses. The large business consortium tends to have a few number of businesses, but we tend to have a more deeper intervention with those. And we do this, it's called the Advanced Services Partnership. We work with these businesses because we help them and they help us to understand the process of Servitization. And when you look at these businesses, these businesses, they're great companies to work with, because they're genuinely committed to this, and they're pushing ahead with it.

Tim Baines: And when you look at them, invariably, they're in the exploration engagement phase. And when you look at where they sit compared to their peers in the marketplace, invariably they're ahead of the game. We first started to work on Servitization, my first paper on Servitization was late 1990s. And when we started to do some of our very early research and publications in the late `90s, early 2000s, we were using this term Servitization, and the common question people would say to me is, "How'd you spell it?" And they were, "Do you spell it with a z or an s?" And everybody in the UK was trying to change it to an S. And I would stand up and say, "No, it's a z, because it's American phrase, it's an American word."

Tim Baines: I also then went into history and said, "Actually, the American language is a true representation of the old English then the quarantine." But that's a different story. So the use of z's was actually English language previous, anyway, long story. But use it with a z. And we had a whole conversation about Servitization and radius, well, this word, what does it mean?

Tim Baines: And then you say to people, it's where we're competing through services." And they say, "Oh, we do this already. We sell spare parts." And then you get into a canvass. Now, today, people don't come to me and say, "What's this thing called Servitization? How do you spell it?" We've moved beyond that. So we are in the expert, we get in, slow but surely through exploration. But they're the conversations they're having is, "What's the business model look like?" And then I'm saying, "Be careful in your mind, there's difference between business model and revenue model and service." Et cetera, et cetera.

Tim Baines: So we start to unpack that, and then we'll talk about pains and gains. So they're entering that, they've an interest in business models, but of course we're talking about a subset of business models. So they'll go and get, for example, the business model canvas, which is a great tool, but it's a very generic tool. It's like using SWOT's analysis, great tool, but it's too generic. So we're talking about the subset. And so there are tools out there which help specifically with that subset. And that's where companies are, they're poking at it. Today, of course, lots of businesses immediately are concerned about COVID and such like that. And they want to innovate the way out of it.

Tim Baines: And you're saying to them, "Yes, let's innovate. Let's innovate the business model and let's innovate the business model towards services." And that's the way to break out of it. Most businesses I would say, Sarah, their exploration, early stages of engagement.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah. I think that makes sense. And that's very much in line with what I would see from talking with a lot of these companies as well. The one observation I had when I was looking through the framework is, while it's a much smaller sample of businesses that have reached the exploitation phase, the one thought I had that I was curious to get your thoughts on is, those companies that are leading this charge, that have worked their way through those four phases, and they have successfully reached the exploitation phase. So you mentioned some of them by name, it seems to me that this would not end, right? Like it's not, "We reached exploitation, we've crossed the finish line, let's put our feet up and have a cocktail." It would naturally revert back to exploration. Because in my mind, once companies have understood the criticality of this journey and they've experienced walking through it and going through those phases and understanding those forces and developing value propositions and successfully turning those into service models and whatnot, they would naturally continue to look for those next opportunities. Do you think that's an accurate observation?

Tim Baines: Yes, Sarah, you're exactly right. That's exactly what happens of course. If you take a step back and you see these four phases, and of course, those four phases are true of whether you're developing a service, an advanced service, or even just worrying about products. And this is the secret is that, the reason that they stack up is that one of the things that we did as a group of researchers, one of the things that's important to do is to go back to theory. Theory has to apply press amongst industrialists. Very often they'll say, "Don't give me theory type of words like in practice." And I think really what they're saying is, "Look, don't be too abstract. Make sure that what you're telling me is relevant to what I'm doing." But theory is helpful. Because theory tells us, how different variables relate to each other.

Tim Baines: Theory tells us in a very abstract way, how things change. On the pins, the model that we've talked about today is, the theory of business growth. And business growth goes through phases and often the people will scroll up the badges perhaps going through five phases of incubation. Explaining the basics by all those types of things. And then we rationalized it to whether it's four, seven, six, it doesn't matter. It's the fact that it's the business growth. And the way business growth happens is that, you start off, you go through a period of relatively smooth changes, you're starting to get to grips of what's is you really doing. And then you go through a period of very rapid, very disruptive change. Then it settles, and then you move on and there are rapids that they'd wrap around changing and then settles and move on.

Tim Baines: And this is Grey phase, the process is called punctuated equilibrium. Equilibrium punctuated by these... And you go through, then move on. And that's the basic theory, it's equivalent to Einstein's theory of relativity, it was a social science theory. That's his basic theory, which from independence has changed. And that's what you're actually seeing. You're seeing the theory explain it. So when you say to me, "Tim, is this model true of all? When we think about, a business it's moved, it's developed, it's exploiting these things." Yes. And then it'll move and we'll think about the next one. Yes. And it moves off what's called the services staircase. Separate conversation that fits with our business model conversation.

Tim Baines: It moves up that staircase. However, it does make an assumption there. And the assumption is that, the business doesn't forget, and businesses do forget. If you go to some businesses who are actually advanced in this space, and you say, "How did you get here?" They've forgotten. They've got some excellent examples of more advanced services, but they're in isolation. It was created because we had a particular customer, who pulls into that space, we formed a group of people, We pulled this all together, we made it a success. We've been running it for 10 years and all those people there have now retired. Businesses do forget. So I think it's important to keep that in mind, but you are right. Servitization is innovation. We gave this name Servitization to describe the innovation of an organization. It comes right the way back to where we started our conversation today.

Tim Baines: The root of what we're talking about, is coming up with a picture of what an organization in our world, the manufacturing organization looks like to compete in the world in the 21st century. We know what an organization looked like, that manufactured model T-Fords. We know what the organization looked like, which manufactured steam engines. What does the organization look like that manufacturers services? That's the question that you dealing with, with all this?

Sarah Nicastro: Well, Tim, I could ask you many, many more questions today, but I know we're almost out of time. And so, I would love to have you back soon. I think there's at least the two conversations we mentioned earlier to dig into, and I also think it would be interesting to have a conversation around, what are the common missteps? Where do companies veer off course? But let's have you back and dig into those if you would be so kind. And I also wanted you to tell our listeners, the Advanced Services Group is having a World Servitization Conference in September, which I'll be a part of, and I'm so excited for. So, can you tell folks a bit about that and where they can sign up and find some information?

Tim Baines: Yeah. Well, first of all, Sarah, thank you for the conversation today. I too have enjoyed it, thank you. Right. So, part of our activity at Aston is very much about cultivating international community around Servitization, academic community, and practitioner community. And for the past 10 years, we have run something called the Spring Servitization Conference, which is a prestigious academic conference, research conference in this space. And that's moved around Europe and it's done extremely well. This year, the academic community has a great platform for having a conversation on Servitization. But the industrial community doesn't. The industrial community doesn't have the same platform, which is, how can I put it? Is a neutral platform where people can come along and see what manufacturers that are leading the space are doing, learn from them, and not feel pressurized necessarily to buy something or to take on some consulting or whatever.

Tim Baines: So we wanted to create this platform for the industrialists to have an equivalent conversation to the academics. So we've created the World Servitization Convention, it's on the basis of what we've done before. This year, of course it's virtual, but it's been dealt with a lot of care. We've gone out and acquired a platform, which gives us an experience which is as close to the experience that you would have as if going to a physical event. So we've got a whole platform of keynote speakers and we've got 25 businesses exhibiting what it is that they're doing in this space. And there are leaders that are executives will be there, and they'll be talking about, their shift, their business models, there'll be time just to have a conversation with them. And it's going to be as close to having a physical exhibition as we can get using digital technologies.

Tim Baines: So it's in September, we'll post you the links there after this. And if people would like to come along to that, it's targeted manufacturing community, and IFS is sponsoring you this, and yeah. We're delighted they're supporting it. So if anybody listening to this podcast would like to come along, send your link, register for it, just come and listen to people that are actually doing that. The purpose is all about forming the industrial community to advance Servitization.

Sarah Nicastro: I'm looking forward to it, I really am. We'll make sure we post the link in the show notes, which will be on the podcast episode page. So, we'll make sure we do that. Tim, it was a pleasure having you today, I really appreciate your time and I look forward to having you back very soon. So, thank you again.

Tim Baines: Thank you, Sarah. Bye. Bye.

Sarah Nicastro: You can find more content on Servitization and other topics by visiting us at www.futureoffieldservice.com. You can also find us on LinkedIn as well as Twitter @TheFutureOfFS. The Future of Field Service podcast is published in partnership with IFS, you can learn more about IFS service management by visiting www.ifs.com. As always, thank you for listening.

By Sarah Nicastro, Creator, Future of Field Service

I came across an article from HBR recently that got me thinking about the opportunity that may currently exist for service organizations to put a major dent in the much-discussed talent gap. We talk a lot about the seismic shift that’s happening within businesses to become more service-centric, and what that shift means in terms of the skills required from frontline workers. We’ve also discussed at length the challenge companies are faced with in recruiting and hiring talent.

The article from HBR about reskilling points out that “the past few months have seen a rapid acceleration of three major forces: deglobalization, digitization, and corporate consolidation.” The article discusses the uniqueness of our current situation as not only an opportunity, but an imperative. The article states, “This is a unique scenario — millions unemployed on the one hand, and rapidly evolving and growing skills needs on the other. There is an opportunity for the former to solve the latter’s problem. With it, comes an urgency for companies, governments, and workers’ organizations to join forces and offer the global workforce clear reskilling pathways. In 2019, the ILO Global Commission on the Future of Work stated, ‘Today’s skills will not match the jobs of tomorrow, and newly acquired skills may quickly become obsolete.’ The commission strongly recommended that governments, employers, and workers invest in education and training. Today, we believe this need is no longer just a recommendation, but a necessary step to economic recovery.”

Perhaps this necessary step to economic recovery is also the service industry’s answer, at least in part, to the major talent problem? It will require companies to think outside of the box and become more creative and flexible in both their hiring and training processes. But if we’re being honest, companies need to evolve in these ways regardless. The HBR article gives a couple of examples of companies that are investing heavily in reskilling. One example, Orange – the French telecommunications company, stood out to me as being particularly relevant to our audience.

Orange Embraces the Opportunity of Skills Development

Orange recently published a press release about its commitment to this endeavor, sharing that it will invest over €1.5 billion. The press release states, “Major technological disruptions and their effects on the world of work require us to continuously adapt. With 148,000 employees, Orange is directly affected by these changes. This is especially true given that by 2025 the Group will look nothing like it does now. It will be more international, more focused on B2B and younger, while remaining multi-generational and at the forefront of new technologies. To support these evolutions and meet its ambitions, Orange has decided to make the ‘skills challenge’ a central component of its new ‘Engage 2025’ strategic plan.”

Orange highlights three main priorities of its plan: to strengthen its “tech” expertise over the next five years; to develop in all business lines the use and understanding of data, AI, and cybersecurity – in particular with marketing and network management teams; and to offer every employee the opportunity to develop soft skills with the goal of training 100% of employees in these key skills by 2025.

Considerations for Realistic Reskilling

Whether you look to reskill from the inside, like Orange is doing, or from the outside-in, you need to consider setting realistic expectations for your reskilling initiative. A few important points that come to my mind when I think about how companies struggling to hire talent could incorporate reskilling are:

Define what skills, not experience, you need to hire. All too often companies seek to hire based on experience alone and that experience is getting harder and harder to come by. To be able to view the idea of reskilling as an opportunity for augmenting your workforce, you need to think about what you should look for outside of what you may be used to looking for (experience)
Another way to do this is to separate out what aspects of the jobs you’re looking to hire for are trainable. Yes, that training may take more effort that you’re accustomed to putting in – and that leads to another conversation around how to effectively reskill – but if you can teach good talent how to do some aspects of the job, it is well worth doing so
With the skills necessary for today’s increasingly demanding definition of service rapidly evolving, use this as an opportunity to examine what skills gaps you have and how you may use reskilling to fill them. We know that the field technicians of today need to be more polished and have better soft skills, oftentimes be an active participant is consultative selling, need to be more tech-savvy, could benefit from better understanding customer centricity, and so on. Think about what roles you may be able to reskill in that would, with training, nicely compliment the more traditional skill sets your workforce has
Be realistic about what reskilling will entail – you need to consider how you’ll bring potential talent in from roles/industries/backgrounds that you may not have been pulling from historically, the time it will take to effectively reskill for the roles you’re looking to fill, how you can use some of your more experienced workers to assist in this process, and much more

I’m not saying this is a magic solution to the talent problem, but I do think it is a piece of the puzzle that is well worth some serious exploration.

By Tom Paquin

Back in December, in honor of the holidays, I was compelled to write about service through the lens of a popular movie series. It now being the end of July, when the sun-bleached late afternoons carry a certain sense of ennui not present at other times of the year, I feel compelled to again go to the well of movies as analogies for service delivery. This was inspired in part by the fact that, due to COVID, a 27-year-old movie was the #1 film in America last month. It just so happens that the film in question was one of my favorites: Jurassic Park.

Jurassic Park is remembered for a variety of reasons. It was a return to top form for Steven Spielberg, who would close out 1993 with another instant-classic, Schindler’s List, two dramatically different films that exemplified his incredible range and talents for visual storytelling. It represented the start of a revolution in visual effects as one of the first films to render realistic-looking creatures using computer animation. And it had dinosaurs, which are inherently cool. No movie since has quite captured the awe, nor the terror, of dinosaurs in the same way. I was just old enough to convince my parents to let me see Jurassic Park in theaters when it came out and not be traumatized, and it ignited my imagination like nothing ever had.

For those of you who don’t remember, Jurassic Park is about a lot more than running away from dinosaurs. The inciting incident that initiates the action, oddly enough, is corporate espionage. In the film, Jurassic Park’s lead programmer, Dennis Nedry (played by the incredibly underrated Wayne Knight) strikes a deal with a rival genetic engineering firm to steal live dinosaur embryos. In order to access the cold storage and flee the island, he needs to deactivate a series of automated systems that he developed, so he creates a piece of malware that tramples through the subsystems, deactivates dozens of automated systems, and ultimately releases several dinosaurs from their enclosures to destroy the park and threaten the guests.

Watching the film recently, it was impossible not to draw some parallels to the increasingly automated world of service management systems. Jurassic Park’s automation existed on a closed system, but was, just like in service, a series of interlocking systems. There were internal assets, there were the dinosaurs themselves, there were both electric and gas-powered vehicles. These all existed on a singular platform, just like service systems strive for today. So what went wrong, and how can we prevent the same mistakes from manifesting themselves in service?

The truth is that the management of Jurassic Park made a series of mistakes that are just as repeatable—or avoidable today. Below are a few of them worth considering, both within the context of the film, as well as the context of your business.

Having One Subject Matter Expert
It’s easy to lay the blame for Jurassic Park’s failure at the feet of Nedry, but we need to take a look at his bosses. In this instance, we’re talking about Lead Engineer Ray Arnold (Samuel L. Jackson), and the owner of Jurassic Park and its parent company InGen, John Hammond (Richard Attenborough). When Nedry executes his “white rabbit” program, which goes on to deactivate the door locks, allowing him to steal the embryos, as well as certain sections of fencing, allowing the T-Rex to escape, he attempts to cover his tracks by saying that he’s running a debug program, and that some systems will go off and on as a result. When attempting to fix the problem, this is the result:

Now we can’t assume that every company will carry with it a bad actor that will sabotage systems and sell off intellectual property (I genuinely hope that is a rare prospect), but for service firms, it’s an obvious mistake to put the entirety of your mindshare in the hand of a single individual. This stresses the importance of choosing technology and automation tools that are adopted widely across the organization, and teaching employees not just the how, but the why behind the decision-making process. We actually talk about this quite a bit, and it’s imperative to developing a system, especially an automated system, that you have stakeholders from across the business. The days of IT existing in a vacuum are over. IT touches every area of the business, and business leaders need to develop systems to meet that.

Let’s take this out of the realm of IT for a minute as well as talk about mindshare in general. What do you do when a technician retires or quits? What about within the context of COVID-19, when travel restrictions and public health issues make travel impossible? It’s important to have a solid plan for knowledge management to meet those moments as well. Perhaps it’s as simple as employing augmented reality, or perhaps you need to look and different ways of passing on information to your technicians in the moment.

A Lack of Redundancies
In Jurassic Park, even the door locks in the office are automated, so when the system is deactivated, the characters are unable to barricade themselves safely anywhere within the facility. This becomes a particularly dangerous problem when the velociraptors figure out how to open doors.

I never quite understood why the security doors were networked to begin with, it seems like a terrible idea, but a three-dollar latch really could have solved that problem for them in that moment. In fact, we see one being employed expertly three minutes earlier in the film.

I’m not saying every single automated process needs to be backed up with a manual one. For complex automation systems like planning and scheduling optimization, that would be nearly impossible to manage at the same scale. Nevertheless, continuity plans are the key to successful business operation.

Depending on your business, this could be extremely low-fi. If, for instance, you can’t manage inventory virtually via field service software, are you in a position to bypass that, pick up the phone, and get inventory levels quickly from a warehouse or depot? Or, on the technical side, could you offer service parts visibility through, for instance, your ERP software? And in either example, how do you ensure that if one system goes down, it corrects itself when it’s back up and running?

Over-customization
We know that in the context of the film that Nedry built the automation systems from the ground-up himself. The “build or buy” discussion has more or less flown out the window in the world of service, and for good reason. Organizations who want reliable systems trust companies with the domain expertise to build those systems to their specifications. By doing so, you create a secure framework that can easily be managed and serviced internally or externally. Configuration is now the name of the game with any software implementation. That way you can avoid issues like this:

You never want to be in a situation where you say, “I cannot get this system back online without one individual.” You always need to have a support system available. This starts with a diverse and powerful technology partner, through to integration. And it all needs to be predicated on the fact that you do not over-encumber your systems with complex customizations.

Velociraptors

Cloning velociraptors was a terrible idea. In the film they’re six-foot tall super-predators that are bred to kill (we’ll ignore the fact that the velociraptors in the film are ostensibly a fiction. In real life, actual velociraptors were closer to the size of a turkey). They are way too scary for a zoo attraction. Kids will not like them. They exist only to maim and horrify.

Ok, that last point is a bit of a joke, but for the others, it’s surprising how much modern service systems can learn from the mistakes of Jurassic Park. I can’t promise that any of these lessons will help you successfully launch a theme park full of cloned dinosaurs, but they certainly offer some food for thought when it comes to service.

IFS CEO Darren Roos talks with Sarah about key themes from the 2020 Gartner Magic Quadrant for Field Service Management, what he believes is most critical for technology providers to offer service organizations, and how he as a leader has managed change at IFS.

Sarah: Hi, Darren. Thank you so much for allowing me to talk with you today about some exciting news we had this week. IFS has been named a leader for the fifth consecutive time in Gartner's 2020 Field Service Management Magic Quadrant.

Darren: Yes.

Sarah: Not only are we named a leader but this time we are clear ahead of the competition. As we've all said on social media the picture paints a thousand words. So I'm excited to talk with you today about the recognition.

Darren: Yes.

Sarah: So to start off, our position on the MQ this year is fantastic, so I want to talk a bit about that. What would you attribute our success to?

Darren: I think that there are some qualitative things and some quantitative things. I think that on the qualitative side clearly we have an amazing talent pool. We've been very focused in our determination to become the outright leader. And what that means is that we've gone and we've built this fantastic talent pool across our product organization, across the consulting organization, really throughout. And I think that that's made a huge difference, because it means that we have a much better understanding of the domain now. That investment, listening to our customers, investing in the talent, having that domain expertise means that we're able to really engage with customers and get to where the pain is with them much quicker, and then be able to address that pain. And you can't do that without the domain expertise. If you're a vendor that specializes in something else and now you're trying to pretend to be an expert, it doesn't really work. And when we look at the other vendors in that quadrant, by and large they're not specialists. Whereas we legitimately are specialists in the space now.

Darren: And then from a quantitative perspective, obviously there's been consolidation. And I think that the fewer players there are there the more obvious it becomes where everybody fits. And I think that it's played well to our strengths and the investments that we've made. So we're super happy with where it is and the next mission is how do we stretch that?

Sarah: Yes. I love that one of the first words you said was determination. I think that is a really good adjective to describe the culture at IFS, determined. And even you as a leader, right before I joined IFS I heard you speak at World Conference, I was there as a journalist, and that was one of the things that I noticed right away is the way that you are determined to make the company strong and to win. And it's been really fun to be a part of that.

Darren: I mean, it'd be interesting, you obviously joined us, I think that what we've tried to do is we've tried to really focus on this domain and married to that focus on service management is this real determination, I use the word again, to be focused on our customer. So I think it's not about the software that we provide, it's not about the revenue that we have, it's actually it's not about the MQ. What it is about is how do we really help our customers better serve their customers? And I'm curious from your perspective, you're obviously chatting to a lot of people in this space, I imagine COVID-19 and what's happened with the pandemic has made this more relevant.

Sarah: Yes.

Darren: And I think that's what we're seeing, but I'm curious what your input is.

Sarah: Absolutely. And I think that IFS has always had strong products. I think it's that commitment to be even more focused on customers and even more focused on what customers need from us in the domain expertise and outside of just the software that is why we see the strong showing that we have on the MQ this year. And I think that people are taking notice of everything we're doing in this space and really seeing us as not only a leader, but a leader that has great potential going forward. And I think that we're going to discuss COVID-19 in a bit so we can come back to that more specifically, but I absolutely agree that it's going to be even more important going forward.

Sarah: So let's get to that. But before we do, what I wanted to talk about next is what you led off with when I asked you the first question, which is we've been determined and that determination has paid off, but the work is not done right? So it's really just started because now we have a responsibility to defend this position and continue to strengthen. So what is your thoughts on how we maintain and even build upon the success that we've seen with the MQ this year?

Darren: I think listening to customers is critical, and you do a lot of these discussions. I see emerging technologies playing a really critical role. We've done a lot with IFS remote assistance, and there's no question that emerging technologies are in reality, machine learning, next generation IOT technologies are all things that are definitely moving the needle for customers. And I don't know about you but when I talk to them, what they're looking for is they're really looking for us to be able to make these accessible for them. How do I, within the technology that I currently have, get these new capabilities embedded in their technology rather than having to go and buy another bolt on or something else, that's really not what customers want. They're looking for simplification.

Darren: The technology world in general is becoming increasingly fragmented and what they're looking for is for us as technology vendors to make their lives simpler. How do we bring them these next generation or emerging technologies into their environment, into their workplace, so that they can leverage them to better serve their customers? And I think that if we double down on that, and we've already done a lot, but if we continue to focus on what is going to help our customers easily serve their customers better, than I think that helps us to extend the need. And that is the focus, ease of use, ease of deployment, time to value and leveraging emerging technologies to deliver value to their customers.

Sarah: Absolutely. Yeah. I think the simplicity that you mentioned is critical. I think back to when I started covering this industry everything was its own like you said bolt on, it's own piece of software, its own solution, and it's so complex and so hard for companies that we tend to forget that investing in technology and running these projects for a lot of these organizations is in addition to their day job of keeping their businesses running and being successful. So making it easier for them to do and putting more value into one solution instead of having them have to look so many different places is a huge value to them, so that makes sense.

Sarah: So we touched on this a bit but let's revisit it. So I want to talk about what leading in service is going to take. So we're obviously making immense progress in doing, that and having a great product is important but to your point it's not the only element that's important. So what are some of the other elements that have trajected IFS's position in the leadership and really helped us to stand out from our peers on the quadrant?

Darren: I've touched on it already but I think it really comes down to two things. It comes down to focus, not being de-focused, not trying to do lots of different things, not trying to be a CRM vendor and be an HR vendor and lots of different things, right? We are focused now on the service management space and what we believe it takes to put around service management in order to really move the ball forward. And I think that's critical, that focus without a doubt the most important thing.

Darren: And then the second thing for me is back to people. The best talent is going to help us progress the solution, it is going to help us to be able to engage with customers, to understand their problems at an industry level, because the problems happen in an industry, in a business rather than horizontally, broad horizontal service management is not a thing. Utilities and telcos and manufacturers all have distinctly unique challenges that they're facing, and us having the talent that have that domain expertise in a specific industry is going to help us to be able to both interpret the problems and build solutions that are going to help customers to see real value quickly. So I think it's about people and about focus.

Sarah: Okay, good. So let's talk about how service management excellence impacts in a couple areas. So I remember hearing you say at a conference service is the future of IFS, and I would say that that future is here now, right? We see that with what we're talking about today. So how does service excellence... First I want to talk about how does this position on the MQ and our commitment to service, how does it impact our service management customers?

Darren: So look, I think it impacts all customers. I think there isn't a business out there today who isn't in some way making the transition to be more outcomes based, more service based rather than just building a product. We talk about the servitization and we want customers to know that they're really in safe hands choosing IFS because in the industries where we focus and the technologies that we focus, we really can help them based on the depth of experience that we've had across a broad customer base.

Darren: And then we offer configurations that are really catered to the customer's business today. We offer them the power to cater to their business and the insights that we get from our tooling and from other customers, and help them to do a better job of serving their customers, whether that's leveraging components of the enterprise asset management or the resource planning capability that we have to compliment the service management, but without adding complexity to their environment. If they need capability out of the rest of our suite then it is natively integrated and can bring that capability to bear without adding complexity to them.

Darren: So I think that that's really, really important, that we're committed to supporting their business model, the workforce changes, the technology changes that they need today and into the future without adding complexity. And I think that's the challenge that we see. Everybody's very aware that digital transformation is something, a journey that they need to go on. But I think a lot of companies and CXOs that I speak to I'm daunted by the complexity, this idea that they need to go and buy lots of bits of technology from lots of different vendors and then try and stitch it together is incredibly complex. And it's made more complex by the fact that a lot of vendors purport to have an integrated solution when in fact what they have is a very heterogeneous set of products that aren't natively integrated, that don't have the same user interfaces that frankly confused their IT departments and confused their users.

Darren: Whereas what we bring is this homogenous suite of technologies, single data model, single technologies that really enable customers to have cross business processes that really help them run their business more effectively. And that's what we remain committed to, making it easier, quicker to deploy, and help them to really streamline the processes in their business.

Sarah: Yeah. So what you're touching on is some of the very common missteps or really significant challenges that companies face when they look at the world of digital transformation, right? So that overwhelm is one, the complexity is one, and I think that there's a lot of marketing tactics, there's a lot of technology terms that are used to really distract people from what's important, which is determining their business case and finding solutions that fit that and not worrying so much, to your point earlier, about the terms IOT or ARAI.

Darren: Stories shouldn't be the tech, the stories shouldn't be the tech at all.

Sarah: Yes, exactly.

Darren: The story is not what we do. The story is what is the problem that they're facing and then how do we leverage the depth of experience and the technology that we have in order to help them solve those problems? That's the story, that needs to be the narrative. And people often say to me how do we go about this? And I go don't worry about the digital transformation, worry about the business pain that you're facing. What is it that you're trying to do? Is it that you're trying to make your organization more efficient in terms of how you provide that service? Is it about improving the service levels? What is it that you're trying to do? And then let's figure out, given the experience that we've got in your industry, how we can help you do that.

Darren: Don't worry so much about the bits of technology behind the scenes, worry about time to value, worry about how easy it's going to be to maintain those systems afterwards, let us talk to you about those things. Don't worry about the bits of technology as much. The vendors that don't have an integrated, homogenous story are going to worry about the pieces. When vendors start talking about the pieces they're on the wrong track.

Sarah: Yeah. And I think that what's really compelling about IFS is we have the ability to meet those customers where they are, right? So digital transformation if you look at it, or servitization, any of these big evolutionary trends in service, if you look at them on a continuum there's companies that are really at the foundational level and they need to start building from the ground up. And then there's companies like Munters right? I mean, we did an article with them about their use of remote assistance. They had some strong foundational technology in place, but they were really ready to evolve and take it to the next level and solve a new problem. So I think it's really interesting and compelling that we have the ability to meet those customers where they are and help them on that journey no matter where they are on that continuum. I wanted to also ask how this MQ placement and our commitment to service has an impact on some of the other areas of our business. So our ERP customers, EAM, and the A&D business, how does this impact all of them?

Darren: Yeah. So I think, look, what is increasingly important is I've talked about the fact that we have this integrated suites, and this has been our direction for some time, it continues to be our direction. And I think that it's a bit difficult because the markets, the analysts, in fact many customers still think in terms of ERP, EAM, our aerospace and defense solutions and FSM. But it's really... I don't think it's helpful to be thinking in those terms because in reality you can't solve an internet business problem with one piece of technology. You have to be thinking from the problem backwards and saying okay, how do we solve this problem? For every customer we engage with it will take pieces of the ERP, pieces of the EAM, and that's the way we should be thinking about it is how do we solve the problem? It doesn't matter which bits of technology in this single core we need to use, because it doesn't matter. We can find a commercial proposition that makes sense, but what matters is how do we solve the problem efficiently?

Darren: We don't want to be thinking about these systems as silos of data or process silos that then needs to be bridged by technology if you're with another vendor, that's not the way it should be being done. If you need information out of your warehousing system or out of your invoicing system, it needs to be able to go get that information without the complexity of, okay, well now we need an API and an integration point into another system, that's not the way it should be working. So for us it's really a focus on what is the business problem, with the industry expertise that we have, and how do we bring these things together in order to solve the customer's problems. And that's the way it should be.

Sarah: Yeah. And what you said earlier is really true. This servitization journey is a journey that most businesses are or outcomes based service, depending on the nature of the business, are on. So companies in the A&D space, companies in all different industries, it doesn't matter what acronym they fall under, they're all somewhere on this path and we can help them with that.

Darren: Well I think, and I've said this before and it's a little, I don't want to say controversial because it shouldn't be, but really if you're the CXO in a business, and you're not thinking about how you innovate leveraging technology in your business, probably won't be there for long.

Sarah: Right.

Darren: There isn't a scenario where any C level person in an organization can not be thinking about how they leverage technology in their business today. I know as CEO of IFS we're constantly looking at ways that we can better serve our customers leveraging technology and had it not been for the technologies that we have we would never have been able to weather the storm of COVID-19 without there being a disruption to our customers. So I think that's really, really important. And all of our customers have got to be thinking about how do they make their businesses more resilient to the types of disruption we've seen now? How do they improve service levels to their customers because of the types of disruptions we've seen? And I think that's really important, the ways in which technology can help them do that.

Sarah: So you gave me a perfect segue back to the COVID-19 topic. And I certainly want to talk about that because the reality is it's top of mind right now and has been throughout most of this year. So to answer your earlier question about what I've seen in talking with different service leaders, there are a couple of big trends. I think that it's an unfortunate situation obviously, and it's heartbreaking, and I myself am very frustrated that anyone is dealing with it. But that being said, when I talk with the service leaders there are some positive things that are going to come out of this from a business perspective and even personally. And I think a couple of those trends, one is in areas where there have been some barriers to change, they're really being broken down. It's been a huge wake up call for companies that not only is changing important and critical right now, but they're more capable of doing it than they ever thought they were.

Sarah: And as such, I think we're going to see big acceleration in these digital transformation initiatives because companies that fall into the camp of already having strong technology are ready to take that next step. And companies that maybe were lagging on their adoption of these tools have realized that they need to get in gear.

Sarah: And the final thing is I think we'll see that path to servitization or that path to outcomes based service really speeding up as a result of what it is their customers are demanding right now. So I think that there are going to be some positives that come out of this, and I think it'll be really interesting over the next six, 12, 18 months to be speaking with these companies about how they've evolved and how they'll continue to evolve. So I wanted to ask you your thoughts on those changes, any other changes that you've taken note of and what you see for service organizations going forward?

Darren: Yes. Look, I think no question things have accelerated, there's definitely a recognition in all companies that something that maybe they were unsure of or vacillating about in terms of whether they should go ahead and do it or not, they've overcome that now. In fact I did an interview with Ganesh [inaudible 00:21:02] from TCS yesterday and Ganesh was saying there's this huge realization that some of the problems that people perceive with technology problems, it's now turned out that they're actually organizational inertia problems. And because there hasn't been the option to wait, they've overcome those organizational inertia problems because organizations have gone look, we've been thinking about this problem for six months, we've just made the decision, we're going to go ahead and do it now, and the technology is there to enable it.

Darren: So there's no question that this fast changing environment has led to a compression of decision making cycles and I'm confident that we'll see technology being leveraged more quickly. There won't be as many modifications done, people won't customize things as much as they used to, that'll bring down the cost. People will see value faster, more efficient use of technology, I think there are loads of positives that will come from it. In addition to the changes around the way that we deliver these projects with less time being spent, traveling, lower carbon footprint for projects, there are loads of benefits that will follow.

Sarah: Yeah. We talked about this openness to change even at the employee level, right? So if you think about a technology like remote assistance, historically I've talked with some organizations where there were pockets of employees that maybe had been there for 25 years and they were just a little bit resistant to a new tool. And even those folks, I mean, there hasn't been another option this year, right? It's if you want to continue to work, if you want to continue to deliver service, this is how we're going to do that. And that little bit of force has really, I think, opened the eyes of even the frontline workers of how powerful these tools are and how helpful they can be and how they're not meant to replace any of their knowledge or talent, so it's been really neat to see that. And like I said I'm excited to see how that continues to evolve over the next while because I think those positive changes are going to be lasting changes that is going to really create a new waive of innovation in this space.

Darren: Yeah, for sure. Look, I think everything you've said is right. We'll see this compression of timeframes, more value quicker, definitely going to make a huge difference.

Sarah: So the last thing I wanted to talk with you about Darren is I was reflecting on the timeframe that you joined IFS and how much has changed since then, in my opinion in very, very positive ways. But I was thinking about how that parallels the changes that are underway within a lot of the service organizations that I'm talking to. So when you think about these trends, these digital transformation, innovation, servitization, outcomes based service trends, I think a lot of times we as vendors have a tendency to oversimplify those things and we can make them seem like this is what's happening in all these businesses and this is where you need to go. But when you dig into the layers of what that really means for these businesses in terms of just redefining their business strategy and changing their processes and selling differently and marketing differently, I mean, there's so much to it, it's significant change.

Sarah: And I was just wondering, I think the journey you've been on leading this company through some significant changes, not really unlike the journey a lot of leaders within our service customers are on leading their businesses through significant change. One of the questions I almost always ask our podcast guests is what's the biggest lesson you as a leader have learned, whether it's recently or during COVID-19 or et cetera? So I wanted to ask you, what do you feel is the biggest lesson you as a leader have learned with your time at IFS so far?

Darren: I think having been in the industry between the ideas and coming to IFS which is a really good business when I joined, I'd like to think it's a great business today. And I think that's reflected in our financial results, it's reflected in our customer satisfaction, it's reflected in these MQs frankly, I think it is that everybody today, generalists, don't ever place. The days of being the big behemoth that does a little bit of everything just doesn't work, it doesn't certainly doesn't work in technology. I don't know whether it's particularly relevant anywhere but I think it is incredibly important that you are really, really, really good at the things that you do well, because customers, they have choice. We live in an incredibly globalized time and people can buy the service or product that they want anywhere from anyone. And that means that you are being held to a higher standard.

Darren: And I think that the biggest lesson that I've learned is in focusing the business at IFS, in really striving to be outstanding and being customer obsessed in driving value for our customers, that that value comes back to us. And I think that's probably the biggest lesson that I've learned. I felt like that was the case, I believe that that is what would happen that has been great to see over the last few years, that that strategy was validated. And really the way in which it's impacted the culture of the organization in getting behind that customer centricity and that focus to be really outstanding at that one thing that we do better than anyone else.

Sarah: Absolutely. It's been great to be a part of the journey and I really appreciate you letting me talk with you about the FSM MQ. So thank you so much for your time and look forward to having a very similar conversation next year.

Darren: Thank you Sarah.

Sarah: Take care.

By Sarah Nicastro, Creator, Future of Field Service

We share a lot of stories of companies on the path to servitization or outcomes-based service – companies looking to leverage service more strategically by moving beyond their traditional product or break/fix models. I’ve recognized within the leaders I speak to a now common understanding that advancing service within their businesses is the way forward, but I do wonder how they’ve gained that recognition. Is it an active, true understanding of what’s driving this evolution? Or is it more of a passive acceptance that this seems to be the journey everyone is on (and therefore we should be too)? The fact of the matter is that this is a journey everyone is on, so the latter mindset isn’t wrong, but do I think that digging in to understand the forces that are driving this evolution can really help in avoiding some common pitfalls along the way. Click to enlarge the image.

I had a conversation recently with The Advanced Services Group at Aston Business School and they shared with me the image you see here. I want to dig into some of what’s illustrated in this image and discuss, in my own words, what it means when it comes to what’s being demanded of companies undergoing service transformation today.

What’s Driving this Service Evolution?

First, let’s talk about the text you see around the perimeter of this photo – this is defining four forces that impact need for and progression toward what Aston refers to as advanced services. I believe that understanding these forces before you begin this journey is helpful in helping you chart a successful path. I’ll discuss each and try to summarize what’s important to consider.

Market-centric forces. I put this force first because I believe it is the most important. The market-centric forces are really what should drive your desire to evolve and what should dictate what the evolution needs to look like. The market-centric forces are what your customers need or want from you – they are the opportunity that exists for your company to do service in new and different ways to create revenue growth and drive profitability. But all too often, companies start with the desire to create that growth rather than starting with the market-centric forces that will ultimately provide it – this results in offerings created that “miss the mark” because you started without first understanding what your market wants from you. Market-centric forces are being shaped by companies like Amazon, Google, and Netflix that are leading in providing a stellar customer experience with the utmost ease. To really drive service success, you must begin with determining what your customers need and want from you. This entails both asking them directly, but also understanding that they may have unmet needs or desires they can’t articulate – so also do some research on what unsolved problems they have, what else they are purchasing, and so on.
Technology-centric forces. In many ways, technology-centric forces are tied in with market-centric forces as the world’s digitalization has completely transformed the customer experience across industries and brands. The market demands of things like guaranteed uptime, peace of mind, pay-per-X, real-time data flow, and super simple customer experience are made possible by how companies have transformed digitally. Just think about how experiences have evolved from even a few years ago – why would a customer call to schedule an appointment when they can easily self-book online or through an app? Why should a customer accept an eight-hour service window when technology exists to get the right person there at a specified time? Why would a customer accept a technician needing to return to complete a job because they don’t have the necessary information/parts/skills to do so the first time? Why would a customer want to wait for downtime to ask for service when they could be guaranteed peace of mind? The technology that is driving these expectations is also what is enabling them. Look at the technology-centric forces as your catalyst to meet the market-centric demands that present the greatest opportunities for your business. You cannot achieve advanced service success without fully embracing digital transformation.
Organization-centric forces. This is where you begin to examine what within your company’s current structure and processes will either spur you to or hold you back from success. Most often, we see the latter. The reality is that the change needed to evolve in the ways being demanded of companies on this journey is immense and far-reaching. This evolution can’t be done in a silo, it needs to be a company-wide strategic initiative. What’s required of companies to meet these market-centric needs reaches into every facet of the business – your value proposition is changing, how you market and sell needs to change, how you deliver service will change, how you develop products and take them to market will change, how you use technology will change. That’s why this is a journey, not a sprint. There’s no way to circumvent these organization-centric forces but knowing how important they are to consider, realizing how often they stand in the way of progress, and being prepared to tackle them head on is an important first step.
Value network-centric forces. When you begin to work through the last phase of the advanced services journey, you will realize that you could meet more customer needs and demands by working with others, or perhaps acquiring other parts of, the value chain. While this is good to be aware of, it’s important to work through the other forces and steps of the journey before really needing to dig in to this aspect and I think, for the most part, the majority of companies we speak with are not quite here yet.

Charting Your Path to Advanced Services Success

As you look at the main part of the image, you see that The Advanced Services Group has defined four phases on the roadmap to advanced services: exploration, engagement, expansion, and exploitation. I would say that most of the companies I interview are in the engagement or expansion phases, although some are certainly still exploring, and few are in the exploitation phase. Taking a detailed look at this roadmap, and The Advanced Services Group’s research in general, is well worth your time. But I’ll comment here on what I’d pick out as the most critical step in each phase of the roadmap based on my observations of where companies most commonly veer off course.

Exploration. Okay, I lied – here I have two points to note. First is understanding the business landscape. This goes back to all that I said above about digging into the market-centric forces. You must start this journey from a place of understanding your customers’ wants and needs, what the competitive landscape is for those, and how you are able to meet those needs. Beginning this journey from an uninformed perspective to “grow revenue” is a recipe for failure. Secondly, secure senior management buy-in. As I said before, this evolution is a company-wide strategic play – it can’t be done in a silo and the willingness to do the work must be shared.
Engagement. I think the idea of hiring a senior leadership role dedicated to advanced services is important. Achieving success in this transformation while also trying to “keep up with your day job” is a tough proposition. Someone dedicated to researching, planning, testing, and implementing specifically on this is a good investment (and I’d note that this could also be a promotion from within or a dual role as long as the person is given the time to dedicate to this).
Expansion. What stands out here is the importance of building a service culture. Recognizing the need to manage this change at the company-wide level and considering how the culture will need to evolve is really important, because this can be a sticking point for many organizations even after significant progress in the first two phases has been made.
Exploitation. Thinking about what the integration of products and services will look like is important. The marrying of these two things is really what most customers are after – it provides a more seamless experience and is what helps you achieve the trusted advisor or solutions provider (versus product or service provider) status in their minds.

Being able to hear about and witness so many companies’ journeys to advanced services is really neat – I love the conversations I get to have and the collective perspective they bring. The Advanced Services Group is putting on a virtual World Servitization Convention September 14-16 which I’ll be speaking at. If you’re interested, check out the agenda and join us.

By Tom Paquin

We spend quite a lot of time around here discussing what defines exceptional service delivery, whether it be the strategies for managing customer retention, transitioning to new business models, or navigating an unprecedented crisis. Through our often lofty discussions about these topics, it’s easy to forget that each organization is at a different point in their service journey, and for some, investing in field service software might not even be on their radar.

I was reminded of this recently when I was asked to answer the question in the title of this article. What an incredibly refreshing question! Putting aside all the bluster, all the acronyms, and all the business goals, actually defining the tool for its purpose was a great reminder of what it is that we are actually talking about here every day. So let’s try to answer the question:What is service management software?

I used to be a high school teacher, so would like to think that I’m pretty good at synthesizing definitions into as close to a singular idea as possible, then using that as the foundation to explore and connect more complex theories and practical applications, so let’s try that. Here’s what I came up with:

Service Management Software is a tool, or series of tools, that allow businesses to track, record, and optimize their field operations and service processes.

That doesn’t actually say much about what makes service management software important, or what makes for good service management software, or even what sort of things are tracked, recorded, and optimized, though. The truth of the matter is that answering those questions requires more than the software itself allows. It requires an intimate understanding of not just service operations, but business operations on the whole.

And that’s part of the challenge with defining service management software. Service functions for businesses are so complex, so diverse, so tribalistic, and so disconnected that getting a piece of software that fits around all the flailing tendrils of your business is not as easy as installing a new piece of project management software.

Don’t tell that to some vendors, though, who build their service software based on a binary checklist of service needs. Many companies, especially those new to the service game who are seeing the revenue potential of service management, build products with feature sets as basic as their other applications. This requires businesses to shove their service processes into a pre-built mold, which always means that you have to saw off elements of your service delivery plan (sometimes entrenched with years of experience) to compromise to software limitations, or invest in even more products to get back to square one.

Because of this, service management vendors that simply have a long list of capabilities, even if those capabilities look particularly flashy in a demo environment, need to be held up to greater scrutiny. Will this parts management system work for the multiple tiers of service appointments that I deal with? Does this crew management system allow me to manage my workers the way that they actually work, or does it just throw names into a list? Does this optimization software manage the scope of global appointments that my company much have oversight for?

So does that mean that depth of execution always trumps breadth of capabilities? Obviously not, but it’s important to understand how the two areas compliment each other. Then you’ll need to take it a step further, and look at what embedded systems exist today, and how they can be integrated or deemed redundant. Then you need to look at your one, five, and ten-year plans for implementation and ensure that there’s a development roadmap that matches up. Then you need to look at implementation, onboarding, the list goes on.

Each of these steps could take months or longer, of course, and there are often hundreds of considerations, stakeholders, and use cases. This new “Back to Basics” series hopes to tackle those issues one by one, and explore all those elements of service delivery, starting with the capabilities that set service apart. Whether you’re looking to invest in a whole new system, or pare down and streamline the systems you have, or just focusing on perfecting service delivery, these will service as an opportunity to revisit, dissect, and perhaps reimagine what actually defines service management software.

There are obviously a dense web of contradictions in even writing about this topic depending on the industry that you are in, and I’d like to flip over as many stones as possible. If you want to share a story or have a question with respect to this series, please don’t hesitate to reach out.

Mita Mallick, Head of Diversity and Inclusion and Cross-Cultural Marketing at Unilever, has an important discussion with Sarah about how to tackle courageous conversations on race, how to be an ally in both professional and personal settings, and how to foster greater diversity and inclusion.

Sarah Nicastro: Welcome to the Future of Field Service podcast. I'm your host Sarah Nicastro. I'm very excited for today's conversation because I think it's a very important conversation to have. I'm very excited to welcome to the podcast, Mita Mallick of Unilever, and we're going to be talking about having courageous conversations around race. I came across Mita recently on social media with some of the content that she's written on this topic and she graciously accepted my invitation to come on and talk with us all today about something that is top of mind for a lot of folks right now. So, Mita, thank you so much for being here and joining us on the podcast.

Mita Mallick: Thank you, Sarah, for having me. I'm delighted.

Sarah Nicastro: Absolutely. Okay, to start let's just learn a little bit about you. So anything you feel comfortable sharing with us about who Mita is, what your journey has been, and your current role as Head of Diversity and Cross Cultural Marketing and Unilever.

Mita Mallick: Well, I'll start by saying I'm in week 18, day two of the pandemic. I live in Jersey City in 1500 square feet with my partner who's also working full-time and a five-year old and a seven-year old. So I lead with that because that's my reality and I always say behind the best banana bread you've ever baked and drive by birthday parties and all the pictures on Instagram, we don't know what's going on in people's homes and lives right now. Everyone's on their own COVID-19 journey and my journey is different, but it's not harder or easier than yours and to really just have a sense of empathy for what people are going through. You don't know if somebody has grieved the loss of someone. And you can't even grieve during this time and you don't know and I think, Sarah, we've talked about this because you also have children. I had a friend not too long ago say to me, and there was a Washington Post article about this, about single women during the pandemic, saying to me "I remember the last time somebody touched me and it was when we went out to dinner months ago." And also being alone during this time and what that means for your mental health. So I just start off by saying that. That's really important. That's where I'm at right now. That's me-

Sarah Nicastro: Yes, that's everyone's journey right now and it does look different for everyone, but it's hard in different ways for everyone. And I know that we just recently met, but if you listen to a lot of our recent podcasts, it's been a recurring theme this idea of more empathy and more humanity because it's just a such crazy time for everyone and you see that through different industries and varying levels of management and leadership, how people are really prioritizing that human connection because it's super important to us all. Also, a good disclaimer because if either of us have any guest interrupters, everyone will know why.

Mita Mallick: Popping in. That's the soundtrack of our lives, right?

Sarah Nicastro: Exactly.

Mita Mallick: It's the soundtrack of our lives.

Sarah Nicastro: So I know you had said to me that with your current role at Unilever you feel like your personal purpose has started to be realized. So I want to hear a bit about what your role entails and what you mean when you say that it's been a good vehicle for you to realize that personal purpose.

Mita Mallick: Absolutely. So my role is a mouthful. It's Head of Diversity and Inclusion and Cross Cultural Marketing. I know many people also have equity in their title. I think equity is at the heart of this work, so I don't have an extra word because it would really another word in my title. But diversity inclusion, it is about diversity with thought doesn't happen without diversity representation, so we're trying to build a workforce that represents North America and the changing demographics. That's what it is. I think Unilever is really ahead of many companies and I know many companies are joining us, especially particularly with what's happening in this country over the last several weeks, is that it is equally as important to think about how your products and services show up in the marketplace. So no longer can you afford to separate those two things, right? You have to think about how you authentically serve with purpose all different communities, backgrounds, individuals, right? And so you can't separate, I think, those two things anymore. So that's my title.

Mita Mallick: Why it feeds my purpose? I think there's two big personal reasons. I would say that at Unilever we're helping everyone unlock their purpose and we know that when you think about your purpose and your capabilities that's when the real magic happens. It's tied to my family history. I am the proud daughter of Indian immigrant parents. My younger brother and I were born and raised here. My dad's mother was married when she was 10 years old and my mother's mother was married when she was 12 years old and they were both married to men in their 20s. They had very large families and they were simply remarkable women. And I share that really openly because it is the truth of what still happens in many parts of the world today, but it also is I am living proof of what progress can look like in less than just three generations when you think about what gender equity means. And so that's really important to me and I know purpose is a lofty term. It's like what's my purpose? My purpose singularly is to be present with Sarah right now.

Mita Mallick: It's to be a good mother, sister, wife, daughter. But it's also what is it that gets you up every day other than the paycheck or my four year old kicking me in the head, well, now she's five. But what is it? Or your children. What is it that gets you up? And I think I would answer the second piece of why it matters to me is it matters to me in terms of being an ally because I didn't have a lot of allies growing up and in particular, I grew up outside of Boston in a time where it was not cool to be Indian, wasn't cool to listen to Indian music, wasn't cool to bring Indian lunch, wasn't cool to wear Indian jewelry and I was physically and verbally bullied for much of my life and it started with the name calling, sticks and stones don't break my bones, names can never hurt me. No, names can hurt you and I think that's what we have to sort of reeducate our children on as well. And racial slurs that showed up on our driveway, the n-word, the s-word. I had no idea what any of this meant growing up when I was that age.

Mita Mallick: But it escalated into my freshman year Intro to Physical Science class where two of the white boys who had been bullying me decided to set my hair on fire and decided to throw, it's just very vivid when I tell this story, right? Any of those memories you think you're transported back, but lighting matches and throwing them into my braid, which was quite long at the time, which was to my knees. And my lab partner who hadn't spoken to me in the four weeks that we were doing lab together said, "Oh my God. Your hairs on fire." And so that was the first moment in my life that an ally actually stood up for me. The boys were suspended and it was my guidance counselor at the time who also happened to be the coach for Cross Country I think figured out I was not really coordinated, but I was really fast so I could run fast and so he pushed me into joining Cross Country. And so sports is a great equalizer and running is what I go to throughout my career now and my life in points of crisis and points where I need solace and comfort.

Mita Mallick: But I say all that to say one of the other reasons why this work is really important to me is I wish I had more allies standing up for me in my life because there are perpetrators, there are people who are doing terrible, mean, evil things, the spectrum. But where are all the other people that could stand up and intervene? And so that's what really drives me.

Sarah Nicastro: Okay. So I can imagine how some of those early experiences translated into what I found in an article you read about being painfully shy and some of the lessons you learned as you started your career on how to become a more vocal leader. So to kind of find your voice and get comfortable using your voice after all of those years of feeling probably the need to stay quiet to avoid more hurt. And so just looking at your title, even if I hadn't read some of the content you've written recently, it's clear that having a voice and being able to use that voice is imperative in your current role and in the current landscape. So tell us about the journey to finding that voice and how you're able to use it today.

Mita Mallick: No, thank you for that question, Sarah. Now that I've explained so much of my upbringing, you wouldn't be surprised now if I had said I was painfully shy and actually, I think that's different than being introverted. It's painfully shy. And people who meet me now as I'm on stage or speaking on podcasts, I would have showed up sick five years ago. I would have been like, "No, Sarah. I'm out." But only my younger brother and mother remember that and I would say it's a journey and I would say using your voice is a skill. It's a skill like being an athlete. I'm not an athlete, but it is with practice and I had someone years ago on my team who was comfortable presenting in 20, 30 groups of people but as soon as it got larger she froze. And she would laugh at me, but I would say it's practice. And what do I mean by that? You can ask my husband. From the time I started my career practicing in empty rooms getting ready for presentations, practicing in the shower, practicing in my empty bedroom, practicing on the drive to work, practicing if I was going to be presenting something, practicing actually if I was just going to be in a meeting because I was in a place where I couldn't even make comments or questions in meetings because I was so nervous about exactly to what you said.

Mita Mallick: I didn't want to be noticed because early on in my life, I think you've just hit the insight, when I was noticed then I was picked on. So I just wanted to disappear and you can't really do that in corporate America. So I found a lot of mentors and allies who helped me along the way, but you have got to practice using your voice whether that's in writing or a podcast or just speaking up in meetings.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah. So that's a really good point and I want to come back to that because later one we're going to talk a bit about some actions companies can take to really put an emphasis on fostering diversity and inclusion and equity in the sense of doing it, not talking about it. And I want to come back to that point of using your voice because I have a story to share around some things I think can happen in organizations that make people be quiet and then do a disservice to that sort of mission. But before we get there, we're talking about finding our voice and using our voice and we were chatting a bit before we started recording about some of the things that are happening in our country and in our world today and I was so happy to have you on because I think that it's such a critically important conversation for us all to be having because to your point, when you were that little girl that was being bullied, where was everyone?

Sarah Nicastro: Where was everyone that could be standing up for you? And we all have a responsibility to use that voice for the greater good right now and it isn't easy to do, but it's important to do and so I think it's a good conversation to have. So before we talk about kind of the meat of having hard conversations, what I want to talk about first is, and I found this in some of the content you've written, is that the very first step is an important step, which is to acknowledge that color does matter and racism does exist because we sometimes have a tendency to think that if we default to terms like we all bleed red and all of those things that we're helping, but in reality, to affect change we first need to acknowledge the fact that it is not the same and that it does matter and that the racism does exist because if we don't do that we can often unintentionally reinforce different stereotypes. So I got that question from some content you've written, so can you share your thoughts on that and why that's so important?

Mita Mallick: You have to stop being color blind. I had a leader years ago say to me "Well, I don't see color." And I was like, "So you don't see me as brown? What do you see me as?" And it is this idea that we live in a utopia, everyone is equal. But it's not. And I do think it's something that many of us were raised on that we have to unlearn now and there's so many things that we have to unlearn or relearn or learn for the first time. And so this idea that you would look at me and say, "I don't see color," my browness has defined me from the moment I've entered this world. It defines me when I walk into meetings. People see that before they even hear me speak or before I sit down or before I present.

Mita Mallick: And so I think it's also a privilege, I would say, it's a privilege to use that term if you think about it. Maybe there are. I don't know many people of color who would say they don't see color. I could be wrong, but it's just thinking about too is who is the person that's actually saying they don't see color? Because it's not something I would say because it's defined my existence since the day I was born. And it's defined, it's actually you're not acknowledging that persons existence or identity or what they might have been through in their lives. So I think it's so important. I don't think you can have a courageous conversation on race if you don't acknowledge that race exists.

Sarah Nicastro: Absolutely. I think it's a natural inclination of white people because that acknowledgement... There's a lot of fear around saying the wrong thing and there's a lot of fear around should I acknowledge? Am I doing something wrong by acknowledging? And so I think that's where some of that comes from. I've been reading the book White Fragility, I don't know if you've read that book-

Mita Mallick: Robin DiAngelo. We had her come to Unilever a few years ago-

Sarah Nicastro: Did you?

Mita Mallick: She's amazing. It was the most profound professional experience I've had going through her workshops. Phenomenal.

Sarah Nicastro: That's awesome. I would love to do that. But what she says in the beginning in the book I think it just made me wish that everyone would read it because I think that there's this perception of racism as this active, bad intent. And what she kind of explains to disarm people is that's not always true. That can be true, but there is a lot of racism that exists passively and subconsciously. So if you want to better yourself or if someone points on something you're saying or doing that you shouldn't be, it isn't that they're attacking your character or they're accusing you of this malicious intent. We have to get comfortable examining some of those thoughts and behaviors that are so built into our society if we really want to start breaking down some of those barriers. So I think that we can't do that from the stance of I don't see color. It's not only failing to acknowledge people's history and people's roots, but it's not going to help us get better going forward. We need to acknowledge that it is a thing, that it's okay to not know the right thing to say or do, but you shouldn't let that prevent you from positive forward motion.

Mita Mallick: Absolutely. I think that's a super important point, especially as you think about microaggressions. Microaggressions are a form of racism and that's we experience every day. It's the subtle remarks, the jokes, the comments and the moment you have to ask yourself who are you going to be in that moment as an ally when those things happen? Are you going to laugh uncomfortably? Are you going to sit in awkward silence? Or are you going to say something or do something? And so microaggressions, I'll give you examples, is if I come off stage from speaking and somebody comes up to me and says, "Wow, Mita. I just want to say, your English is so good." That's happened to me on many occasions. Or constant mispronunciation of my name or people thinking I speak Spanish and get very angry at me. I don't speak Spanish. Bengali is my first language and then English is my second language. I just think in those moments, how can you intervene when you are witnessing that? And that's what I think Robin's talking about is that it's just so pervasive in everything we do and what you think racism or racist looks like and sort of even that's stereotype and debunking that.

Mita Mallick: And I will tell you, spending time with Robin DiAngelo as a person of color validated my life experiences because it's also very uncomfortable to read that book or go through her work as someone who's not white and then you're like, "Wow. This is everything that I've been through. Suddenly I feel validated. Somebody else is telling me that this is hope." So it's pretty remarkable.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah and as a business, as an employer, I think it's amazing that Unilever had her come, but when you think about how those microaggressions take place in the workplace, it is important to consider how are you providing education and training that breaks some of those down and fix some of them because it makes it not a great environment for people of color and I think there's far more of that happening in the workplace than there is overt racism because it's easier to notice and address. Those microaggressions can go on and on and on because they can be more difficult to kind of rise to the top and be addressed by leadership or what have you. So educating the workforce and arming people with information on how statements that they might not realize are hurting someone hurt someone and why it's important to not use that type of language.

Sarah Nicastro: So okay, so we talked about the fact that acknowledgement is a critical first step. Acknowledgement of differences, of color, of the fact that racism exists, all of that. So next I want to talk a little bit about what it takes to be a good ally. I shared with you before we started that this is something that I'm really focusing on right now and you have, again, a lot of articles on this. So share your thoughts on why... We talked about why it's important for you to be a good ally, some of the experiences that you've had, but let's talk a little bit about how to do that. What does a good ally look like?

Mita Mallick: I would say the first part is there is a piece, there's a balance between education, learning, listening, and acting, and I think they have to be in parallel. There is a great Washington Post article I saw that I posted on which said when black people are in pain, white people start book clubs. And I was like "wow." I read that piece and there was such great commentary because people are also scared. Allies are like, "I don't know enough. I have to learn more." But I would say it's continuous, it's dual path. It's not like you're going to learn and get a certificate in school. It's not like there's a point where you're like, "Okay, you're an ally." No. It's a continuous journey and I think the thing we have to acknowledge is we are going to make mistakes and that's okay. And we're all so scared.

Mita Mallick: I think one of the first things after the whole stop being colorblind I would say is that oftentimes I think the job of an ally is to educate yourself and not to put the burden on black and brown people. In this case, let's say the black community because I come into this conversation as an inclusion leader, as a brown woman. I identify with the black community. I don't identify as black. So I am also entering this conversation as an ally for the black community. My job is to educate myself and if you can find the best banana bread recipe on Google and post it on Instagram after you bake it, you can Google these topics on how to be anti-racist. You don't need a primary source to tell you what it's like to be black in America. And I think as I go back to my roots as marketing and storytelling, storytelling is one of the oldest forms of human tradition. People want stories to relate to, but you have to ask yourself at what cost do you want to continuously ask your block colleague, your black friend, the people that you know in the black community to tell a story that consistently traumatizes them?

Mita Mallick: And this is intergenerational trauma. So I know the instinct is let me go ask my black friend or my black colleague about blackout Tuesday, about Black Lives Matter versus All Lives Matter. You don't understand as an ally potentially the trauma that's being faced on them because you're not the only person asking them. And at the same time, I would say, when it comes to listening and learning, if I choose, if a friend chooses to share a racist encounter they have had with me, it's a psychologically safe space, they have called me and they want to share this. My job is not to be an investigative journalist and to ask lots of questions. My job is to not minimize and say, "I know Mita. I don't think that's what she meant." And my job is not to problem solve. And so that is what I think is at the heart of everything is that we are being raised in a world that doesn't shut up and we are told to speak and speak and speak and talk and talk and talk and the job of an ally sometimes is unlearning all that to allow for psychologically safe space for me to share my truth or my friend to share my truth and to honor that truth. And to know that you will leave the conversation without any resolution.

Mita Mallick: And when my friends comes and tells me about a racist experience she's had at the store shopping, she's not looking for me to fix the store policy or brainstorm or problem solve, which as leaders is what we want to do, which makes all of this so uncomfortable. So I would also say don't go to every person of color in your life and ask them to educate you as a white ally, but I would also say if they do, honor it and just listen and say thank you.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, absolutely. And I think if you're just willing to look there is so much content to consume. Really, really good content to consume and learn from. Everything from books to audiobooks to podcasts to TED talks. There is so much out there to listen and learn from without having to put the onus on someone who hasn't already shared. A lot of people have shared experiences that you can get a really good new perspective from. A couple other things that I picked up from some of your writings around this topic that I think are just important to mention is diversifying your circle. So I was-

Mita Mallick: Let's talk about that. Yeah.

Sarah Nicastro: I was listening to a podcast on this and I was thinking about, I'm not going to be able to get it right, it was a Renee Brown guest, but you can't do this as a token. It can't be that inauthentic of just "Oh my gosh, all my friends are white. I should try and find a black or brown friend so I can check a box that I'm doing this thing right." That is not what you mean by diversifying your circle, but by really looking at the people you engage with on a day-to-day basis and thinking about is this representative of who I want to be and do I have relationships beyond my own comfort zone? So in real life, I do, but one of the things that I've been working on is my diversifying my social media followings so that I can be more intentional about the content that I'm consuming and I can incorporate black authors and I found a really good Instagram account the other day because I'm a big mental health advocate and I think it's a black female therapist or something along those lines, but it's a great account. Information for anyone. So how else can we work on diversifying our circle?

Mita Mallick: Start by acknowledging that your circle's not diverse. Start by thinking about who is in your trusted circle? Who are the five people you call when you have great news to share or you're going through a life crisis, you need a shoulder to cry on and just think about that. And if they look like you and they act like you, you need to start building meaningful cross cultural relationships. And what I would say in this work, we do a lot of great work at Unilever and as many as organizations are doing, but if you are wanting to be a white ally and you show up at work and you want me to talk to you about Black Lives Matter and how you can be an ally but you don't know a single black person in your life, in your community, I don't know how to help you. Because so much of this work and the stereotypes and the things that we pull in our heads and unconscious bias from one encounter, one conversation, one article, one TV show we saw, all of that needs to be undone. And that's where the hard work starts.

Mita Mallick: So unconscious bias training is actually critical, and it can be very effective if you start to think about your own biases and working them through. But then if you go home and your community is everyone who looks like you and thinks like you and acts like you, how can you undo any of that? Where's the practice? So what I would say is think about all the different moments in your life and I know this is tough because we're talking about in a pandemic, but where do you go grocery shopping? Have you thought about shopping more local? Do you support black and brown owned businesses and is that something that you can make part of your routine? If you are thinking of volunteering at your local church or temple, why don't you think about going and volunteering somewhere else? So really just challenging all of those moments of things that you want to do. What do you do on a Saturday? What about going to a cultural event and looking up what's happening in your local paper rather than doing what you normally do?

Mita Mallick: And a lot of those things are uncomfortable and scary, but I think you have to put yourself in environments that are different than what you normally operate in to start meeting people to build those meaningful relationships. If you're a parent like we are, if you think about interestingly as my children are growing up the relationships they're making with friends, that's an opportunity. As your children make cross cultural relationships that are meaningful that you can actually build those relationships with their families. And so I just think that there's so many opportunities, we just have to be more intentional about how we liberalize day-to-day and where we can interrupt.

Sarah Nicastro: I have a really recent example of, I guess this crosses race and gender, but my older son just turned five in June and he wanted a superhero party. Well, of course, we didn't really have a party because COVID, but we still had a birthday week. I probably, honestly, went above and beyond because I was trying to still make it special for him and-

Mita Mallick: This is the opposite of my daughter turning five. We went the other way during COVID.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah? You went low key?

Mita Mallick: Well, I had her birthday, a store bought cake and that was it. Yeah.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah. So we did a superhero thing, but I started as I'm reading some of the stuff and trying to be more intentional, I stopped and thought of all the superheroes we bought him, they'll all male and they're all white. So I just got on Amazon and looked up female superhero, black superhero and bought whatever came up first because it was just a moment for me to think intentionally about what am I exposing him to and what dialogue or unconscious experiences or biases am I planting for him? And is that how I want him to grow up? And so I just I'm glad I caught it because it was just something that came to me before he got his gifts and just last night he was like, "Mommy, I want to be Wonder Woman. Can you get me a Wonder Woman costume?" And I was like, "Yes!"

Mita Mallick: That's great!

Sarah Nicastro: It just made me so happy.

Mita Mallick: It's so important thinking about what they watch, what they play with, where are their role models coming from? It's critical.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah. Okay, so I think when we talk about being a good ally I think one of the most challenging parts, and I just shared a story with you before we started of me doing this very recently with a family member, is having the hard and courageous conversations. So when you see someone saying or doing something that you know is wrong, avoiding the path of least resistance and facing it head on. So let's talk about this from two perspectives, so you wrote an article recently for Create Cultivate on having courageous conversation and this is an article that was written around how to be an ally to and for people of color in your life. So I think we've covered this a bit, you brought up some really important points which are don't put the onus on them to educate you, work on educating yourself and if they come to you with a story, don't try and fix it just listen and let them share openly. Is there anything you would add to that in terms of being courageous in how you engage with your friends of color and people of color in your life to be a good ally to them?

Mita Mallick: I'll give you two responses. I think one is in those moments that matter, intervene. And I think that means not just at work, in our school yards, in our public spaces, places like the public library, the grocery store. You see something, say something. That's where it matters and starts to look at what's happening in our communities and so don't be a silent bystander when these things happen. That's what I thinks so important. I think going back to the conversation on having courageous conversations with family members that can be so tough and difficult. I was just having a conversation earlier with someone about this before we go together today is that you have to have patience and understanding in the relationship with the family member. I actually think sometimes these conversations are easier to have at work, and hear me out, because there's a level of professionalism. There's a level of professionalism, we all conduct ourselves at work. And suddenly on a virtual happy hour or dinner with a family member and someone says something and you just flip out.

Mita Mallick: And I think to myself if anyone I can move in the family, it's me who's going to do it. But there has to be a moment of creating a psychologically safe space where they can share what they're feeling and for me to educate them. And not to shut the conversation down by saying you're a racist, you're a sexist, you're a homophobe. No one wants to be called that and then suddenly it's all dissolved and you won't be able to move them. And I'm not saying that's going to work for everybody because some people have their beliefs and they believe what they believe and it's not going to be a healthy situation to continue and it's not going to be that you're going to be able to move them, but a lot of times it's people said something or did something and you're like, "Did you realize what that means?" And the person says, "Well, no. I actually didn't." Do you know where that word comes from? The roots of it? Do you understand why that's derogatory?

Mita Mallick: I'm not going to say that's always the case, that's not. But I like to live my life and I have to do this glass half full. This is why I do this work is that 99% of people live their life with good intentions and they don't realize their impact. There is 1% of people who don't, of course. But I just think thinking about how you can take a deep breath, be patient, and think about how you can have this conversation with the family member and not be triggered by some of the things they're saying, especially if it's a white ally trying to talk to another family member who's also white who you want to become an ally and do these things with you. That would be my advice.

Sarah Nicastro: Okay.

Mita Mallick: Not easy, not easy.

Sarah Nicastro: Right.

Mita Mallick: I know you know.

Sarah Nicastro: So I get that you're saying it's a bit easier in a work situation because there is a level of professionalism and people are just going to carry themselves and handle themselves differently, but I do want to ask with your role at Unilever and in your experience with this, if someone sees or hears something in the workplace that they know is wrong what is the best way for them to address that? How do you do that without being scared that you're maybe overstepping or maybe that gets into the company making people feel empowered to speak up in those situations, but what is the dynamic on how you suggest handling that stuff in the workplace?

Mita Mallick: Yeah. And listen, courageous conversations are not easy at all, whether it's professional or family. I just think sometimes because we're so close to our family emotions tend to rise a lot faster than they would at work.

Sarah Nicastro: Right.

Mita Mallick: Because we know people and we're so familiar with them it's like going to extreme emotions and when we're at work it might be a bit different. Not in the way in which we might approach a conversation. It's really about empowering the bystander and I would say we all work so hard to create these amazing cultures, we all contribute to them, and we want to be agents of change to help protect them. And so if you see something, say something. And I would say often in my career, and this happens, maybe I will have seen something and I will rewind it in my head and I never said anything in the moment. It's not too late to go back and approach that person. And I think it depends on the situation and the level of comfortability. If it's a large meeting in which some things have been witnessed, you might not feel comfortable saying in that moment, you might need a few days to think about it and go back and approach the individual and something that you observed. You might pull someone aside privately so many times often in my career is mispronounced and I would say if somebody is constantly mispronouncing it, the same person over and over again, huh? What is it there's so difficult to learn about my name?

Mita Mallick: So, Sarah, in that case, might pull that person aside and say "Listen, I need you know..." And that's allyship and that's allies moving to being advocates because you're actually advocating like "You don't pronounce it my-ta, you pronounce it me-ta. And I just want to bring that up because I noticed in the last few meetings that you've mispronounced it and maybe no one has ever told you how to pronounce it, but this is the impact it's having on her. And so I think it's about you have to be comfortable depending on the setting and I also think it's never too late. And you can always go to someone else to talk about it and try to strategize on how you can go and approach somebody. I think there's so many ways to do it. There's not one way.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah.

Mita Mallick: Not one way.

Sarah Nicastro: That's a good point. That's a good point and to one of the points you made earlier, you're bound to screw it up. It's an area where this is all really heavy, complicated, sticky stuff and so if we want to do better and we want to be catalysts of change and forward motion it's not going to be a smooth trajectory. We're going to screw up as people and we have to not let that fear prevent us from doing our best. So what practices can businesses put into place to foster more diversity, inclusion, and equity in terms of real action? So I think any business would say that this is important to them, but if you had to give a few tips on real, tangible action to take to make progress on this within their businesses, what would you suggest?

Mita Mallick: Lots of tips and advice. I will try to keep it brief. I would say that hire a head of diversity, equity, and inclusion, a chief diversity officer. You need somebody to do this work and lead and strategize and that person needs to report into the CEO and not four levels down or five levels down because that's not where the work gets done. You need to think about best practices like starting a diversity and inclusion board. Diversity Best Practices is an amazing organization, they're a diversity think tank and so much of what I've learned is from them, but there's so much out there in terms of best practices on having an inclusion board, setting targets, you know what gets measure gets done, thinking about the recruiting pipeline and where you're getting candidates from, thinking also about... I often get called by smaller companies for advice and that's a critical moment when you're a smaller startup and you start to think, "Well, do we all look like and act like each other?" And "What happens when we start to refer our friends to come work here?" You just sort of perpetuate the issue of not being diverse because you are doing something very well intentioned and tapping into your own networks.

Mita Mallick: But your own networks might actually look like you and act like you so there's so many things that you can be doing to really think about that and I think it really starts from the top, in your leadership and what's their commitment to this? To having someone run it, to having a team, to having funding. This work certainly isn't free, it's not for the faint hearted, and it's a lot of work. And so you have to invest to show results in return. Absolutely.

Sarah Nicastro: And I think it goes back to one of the things we talked about, which is it needs to be an authentic desire to have a culture of diversity, inclusion, and equity and not just, again, be trying to take measures to make sure you're covering basis or checking a box because part of this is following best practices and creating metrics that will help you achieve the goals that you've set and things like that. But I think you can achieve diversity and not derive the full value from that diversity if you don't actually realize the benefit of having it. And that goes back to if you have a diverse set of people in your workforce that are working on finding and using their own voices but you fail to listen, then having that diversity is not helping you all that much to begin with. And that was something that I thought of when we were talking about this earlier. In my former role with my former employer, it was the company is almost all men and there was a number of times that I was shut down as a woman speaking up because they just did not want to hear what I had to say and they made that known.

Sarah Nicastro: And it was a frustrating situation and ultimately, it wasn't a good fit for me, but it's just there's so much value in diverse thinking and diverse experiences and diverse opinions that I just wanted to bring up the point that it isn't just about being able to say, "Yes, we have diversity within our workforce." But it's harnessing the power of that diversity to make your business stronger. And I think that's an important part as well.

Mita Mallick: No, absolutely. You will be at a disadvantage from a business perspective if you don't have diversity representation because it goes back to what we were talking about. How do your products and services show up in the marketplace? On are you capitalizing on the changing demographics of this country to serve those populations, all populations? And so that's why to your point, Sarah, why it's so critically important.

Sarah Nicastro: So I was really curious to ask this question. I know that you're very passionate about the work you do and it's so super important, but as someone that is heading up cross cultural marketing I wanted to ask what brands do you see that you think are really doing this work well? And why? So that our listeners can kind of learn a bit from those examples.

Mita Mallick: Well, I would be remiss not to talk about Ben & Jerry's, Dove, Dove Men+ Care. I won't make this a commercial for Unilever because there's a lot of great products. We have beauty, personal care, home care and food and refreshments, so hopefully a product that you own and use in your household. Thinking about non-Unilever brands, I would say Instagram, as we talked about, Sarah. There's so many brands on Instagram. It's just phenomenal to follow. One of the brands that I've been following for a few years is Billy's Footwear. This gentleman was a frontline emergency worker, I believe he was a fireman, Billy. He fell 15 flights and became paralyzed from the waist down and he realized that he didn't have a shoe that he could put on himself and he started Billy's Footwear. Universal design with a zipper. It's also very easy for children to put on.

Mita Mallick: So you think about what an amazing idea and thought from a tragedy and this is products that are being sold around the country, his footwear. But there are so many examples of inclusive brands. Another one is called Nunude. N-U-N-U-D-E. And they are about, they actually petitioned the Oxford Dictionary to change the definition of nude from lightest pink beige to all skin tones because they sell products that are apparel that matches your skin tone.

Sarah Nicastro: That's awesome.

Mita Mallick: So lounging, underwear, garments, etc. But there's just so much out there I think. You look at what Rihanna did with Fenty a few years, it's a few years old now, but the amount of shades of foundation that is just groundbreaking and even that idea that makeup for all and really for all skin tones. And so I think there's just so much out there. To your point, if you really want to look at fine inclusive brands, fine brands that are living their purpose, there's just so many on Instagram.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah.

Mita Mallick: Pretty amazing.

Sarah Nicastro: Another one that I have liked for quite a few years is Aerie.

Mita Mallick: Yes.

Sarah Nicastro: Because I think they do a good job of, especially as women, just representing a broad spectrum of across the board. And I think I wanted to ask who you thinks doing well because I think it's good to take a look at what are those companies doing and how could that potentially apply to some of our listeners? And it's not too hard to find the ones that aren't doing a good job either.

Mita Mallick: Yeah. I would add to the list Tommy Hilfiger. There adaptive clothing line, again, thinking about the experience. Similar to Billy's Footwear, but if you have a prosthetic leg, if you only have use of one arm, single use zippers, magnetic buttons. Just they have done, I think, a really phenomenal job if you follow Tommy Hilfiger adaptive clothing on Instagram as well.

Sarah Nicastro: Cool. Good. Okay, so we're pretty much out of time, which is so sad and I knew this would be a longer podcast because we had a lot to talk about.

Mita Mallick: I feel like we could talk for hours.

Sarah Nicastro: We could, we could. And I would love to have you back-

Mita Mallick: Oh, thank you, Sarah.

Sarah Nicastro: At some point. I think we could do probably a podcast on its own just in terms of best practices around diversity and inclusion. So perhaps we can do that at some point in the future, but, Mita, I really appreciate you being here. I've thoroughly enjoyed the conversation and really grateful for your insights.

Mita Mallick: Thank you so much, Sarah, for having me. Thank you.

Sarah Nicastro: Absolutely. You can find more content by visiting us at www.futureoffieldservice.com. You can also find us on LinkedIn and Twitter, @thefutureofFS. The Future of Field Service podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more about IFS Service Management by visiting www.ifs.com. As always, thank you for listening.

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