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On IWD, Sarah welcomes Kristen Nowak, President of Field Service at Unlimited Service Group, to talk about her journey, learnings, and why it’s time for us to get creative as an industry.

Sarah Nicastro: Welcome to the Future of Field Service podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Today we're going to be talking about the reality that what got us to where we are in service is not what will get us to where we want to go. I'm excited to be joined today by Kristen Nowak, who is the President of Field Service at Unlimited Service Group. Kristen, welcome to the Future of Field Service podcast.

Kristen Nowak: Hi Sarah, thanks for having me.

Sarah Nicastro: Thanks for being here. Kristen and I met at the Field Service Connect event in Austin last fall, and we were both participated in some different conversations where I could sort of tell, we would hit it off and reached out after to see if we could connect and of course ask Kristen to come on the podcast and share some of her insights and opinions and experiences with you all. So Kristen, before we get into the talking points that we have today, tell everyone a little bit about you, your role, the company, et cetera.

Kristen Nowak: Sure. So like you said, I'm the president of Unlimited Service Group, which means that I look after our 30 unique brands of service companies that have 119 locations across North America with just over 1300 technicians committed to servicing commercial kitchen equipment for our manufacturer partners and customers in the market that we serve. I'm also very blessed and lucky wife to Ed and mom of four, CJ, Megan, Jerry, and Katie. So that's just to say that at any point of the day I'm probably worrying about one of those technicians and definitely worrying about one of those, at least one of those four kids. So if you should just use this time to take a nap. Because that's a lot and I'm sure you understand that Sarah too.

Sarah Nicastro: I do, I do. Yes. A mom's work is never done, that's for sure. Whether you're at work work or anything else you're doing, there's always someone on your mind, that's for sure.

Kristen Nowak: And service never sleeps, so all the time.

Sarah Nicastro: For sure. Yes. So let's talk a little bit about your journey into field service. Okay. So we talked about that you started in public accounting, so completely different. And I've talked on this podcast before about how when I started writing about field service, I had no idea what field service was. I mean, I didn't know that it was a group of industries. I thought, wow, this is going to be so boring. I didn't know that there was actually so much going on. And part of what we're going to talk about later on in how do we get people into this space? Part of it is I always say there's a branding problem. People don't think or don't necessarily know what field services the first time you hear that. And so I'm sure when you were in public accounting, you weren't sitting back thinking I would really love a career in field service, but here you are. So tell us a little bit about what that journey was like and how you progressed from where you started to where you are today.

Kristen Nowak: So I was recruited out of public accounting into the private sector and just like you, and maybe even worse, I started working in field service and I still had no idea what field service was. So I was recruited into a director of finance role. So it's just a little bit different than what I was doing when I was in public accounting, but right when I entered the business, I started seeing the kind of busy, chaotic, messy world of field service and coming from a very structured world and I just fell in love with it. And I was really fortunate to have great leaders, inspirational leaders who gave me opportunities to learn more. In fact, every time a project came up, they said, hey, here's an idea we have for the business.

I raised my hand and back then we were just one service company located in Chicago. So to look back over that 13 year span, the time that I've been in the industry, I raised my hand a lot and it was like I said, really fortunate to have leaders and mentors that gave me opportunities. I quickly moved into an operational role within six months of being in the company. So moved out of finance and became director of operations, and I finally started learning what the heck field service was.

Sarah Nicastro: By immersion. Right. Okay. So you went from finance to operations and then what was the progression from there?

Kristen Nowak: So like I said, we were just one service company at that time and I was still learning so much. I mean, I would venture to say I'm still learning so much, but I started riding along with technicians and kind of learning what their world looks like. I started leading our organization just in that company in Chicago, and at that time our parent organization was starting to look to acquire and I thought that sounded really cool. And so I raised my hand and said, hey, can I be a part of that first acquisition that happened to be out in the Boston area? And they said, yeah, sure, you can come along. And from there on, we kept doing acquisitions a couple every year, and I was fortunate enough to be a part of them, but every spot along the way, learning about the technicians in that market, the customers in that market, learning what the team in the office did to make service work, I just kept sitting with different roles and taking on more and more as I learned more and more about business.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah. So 13 years ago when you joined the company, it was one business in Chicago and you said today it's how many?

Kristen Nowak: 30.

Sarah Nicastro: 30 across 119 locations is what you said, right?

Kristen Nowak: Yeah.

Sarah Nicastro: So immense growth.

Kristen Nowak: So Canada all across the US. Yeah.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah. Which is just really interesting to think about how you've grown along with the business. So I'm sure that's been really fulfilling. And also to your point, given you a lot of opportunity to learn different things. When you think about, I always say when you come across people today that have been with one company for 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, it makes me think that either they're someone who loves complacency, which typically that's not it, right? Because even if they did, that might not be what the company needed, but more so it makes me think that they've had a lot of opportunity to continually learn and grow. So because if you hadn't had that where you are, at some point you probably would've felt you outgrew the opportunity at the company and you would've tried to go find that somewhere else. So it's really cool that you've been on these parallel tracks of the company growing and you being able to grow right alongside it.

Kristen Nowak: Well, I think it's interesting because when I first started, we were a very small company. We had less than 50 people in our organization, and I was the person in charge of trucks. I was the person that onboarded the technicians and other staff members. I was the person that reviewed payroll. I was the person that talked to customers. I was the person that dealt with the employee problems. And as you've proven, you can't do that. You can't be everything to everyone. And so you start bringing in team members that are experts in that area. And I have learned so much one about all the things I did wrong in the beginning, but learned so much about each running those areas of the business.

We have to great HR partners, great IT partners that I should not be setting up people's email accounts and fixing their printers, but we have great marketing partners and I'm still learning so much. So as the business has grown and I've grown along with it, I've just had exposure to people that are experts and just wonderful in the areas that they focus on. That's been a great opportunity for me.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah. Okay. So here is my next question, which is I can't remember what the overall statistic you always hear is, but you hear that women will only apply to a role if they have, I think it's like 100% of the qualifications and men, it's like 60% or 50% or something. And so we know that there is a real difference there. But what's interesting to me about your story is how you say you kept raising your hand. So I'm sure some of those things that you were raising your hand for, you weren't super experienced in, you wanted to learn about them. So there's two tracks to this.

One is the way, and I think we tend to, as women that have achieved a certain level of success, oftentimes I hear us defer to the one path which is, oh, it was great because I was given so much opportunity or I lucked out, et cetera. And so that is one side. There's sort of situations where you find yourself in the right place at the right time, or there's people within the organization that saw something in you and wanted to say yes when you raised your hand and give you those opportunities. But what I want to talk about that I don't think we talk about enough is what made you raise your hand? What made you have the confidence to do that or the desire to learn?

Kristen Nowak: And it's the best piece of advice I ever received in business. And it was from my boss at the time. And before you become a leader or a manager, you generally are portraying the qualities that are needed. So you're generally doing part of the job before you actually get the job. And so when the position for director of operations came open, my boss at the time said to me, what do you think about it? And I said, I'm not ready. I don't know enough about the industry. I'm going to break the business. My kids are too little. I had a hundred excuses of why I wasn't ready for the role, and it was a male leader. And just the great advice he gave me is he said, yeah, you're not ready for it, but when you're ready for it, somebody else will already have it.

So you can learn on the job, have the confidence to jump in, ask questions, and be continually learning. But don't wait until you're ready because when you're ready, it'll be gone. And that really motivated me. The other thing that motivated me was it actually has the name, he actually has the name, I have a son, one of my sons is special needs. And I knew that I've always known my why, and I knew that I was the one that was going to have to support and care for him long term. And every time I wanted to have kind of a crisis of confidence, I looked at him and was like, nope, I've got to do it for him and I've got to do it for my other kids. And so it was those two things, looking at my family and knowing that I had to protect them into the future.

And then hearing this, the best advice ever is don't be there when you're ready. Those two things forced me and it was way out of my comfort zone, raising my hand was not a natural to me. So yeah, it was a lot of internal pushing myself saying, remember those two things and that's what did it.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, I was just reading something in the last few days, and I'm not going to be able to think about where I was reading it or anything, but it was talking about this idea of most people that you see doing these things that you may sit back and admire or think, wow, look at that journey. It isn't comfortable for them. They're not doing it because they have some innate absence of fear or some right superhuman confidence. They're pushing through that fear, they're pushing through that discomfort to really put themselves out there. And I think in a lot of ways it's growing a muscle. That first time that you raised your hand you're probably sweating and I mean it was so hard.

But once you do it a couple of times and you see that nothing bad happened, maybe some really cool good things happened and you're learning, and then the next time it's a little bit easier and a little bit easier. And I think sometimes the only way to grow your confidence is through action. I can't just to that person's point, sit around and wait until you feel ready, because that might never happen. So I think that is really good advice. And I also think it's commendable that you took it and you did the hard work of pushing through your own discomfort to be able to take the learning opportunities that you did.

Kristen Nowak: And I remember October 4th, 2010, my first day at this job, I sat in the parking lot 10 minutes before I was supposed to walk in and said, okay, Kristen, you're going to go in, you're going to be different. You're going to talk to people. And it was so far out of what I was used to, and I'm so glad I did because having just that push of that of courage, that 30 seconds of courage really changed my life.

Sarah Nicastro: And I think it's really powerful for you to talk about that today because as Kristen who's the president, there are people that are coming into their careers that wouldn't know you had those feelings if you weren't genuine about it. And so sometimes that's so helpful to someone because they see the current version of you and think, oh, she's probably always been confident or courageous and knowledgeable on X, Y, and Z. But no, you had to give yourself a pep talk in the parking lot, just so many other human beings.

Kristen Nowak: It's the power of vulnerability, I think. When you're willing to be vulnerable and tell people your story, it brings them along with you on it.

Sarah Nicastro: Absolutely. Yeah, I'm a big fan of vulnerability. I think we're all human beings doing our best and trying to contribute. And the more we can share those experiences, I think it helps us and it helps others. So very good. So I want to talk about when we spoke to prepare for this, we talked about the fact that in the beginning, especially in 2010, you were very often the only woman in the room. And so I want to talk about two sides of that. So one is what did you find hardest about that? And then the second is, was there anything you liked about it or any part of that that you felt that gave you an advantage or an opportunity?

Kristen Nowak: So I think what was hardest about it, and it still happens a lot because it's a very male dominated industry that I'm in. And I think what I struggled with a lot and still do some days is feeling like I deserve to be in the room. Whether it is a room with our manufacturers and customers and other leaders in the industry, or if it's a room sitting talking with our technicians and our dispatchers, when we talk about the leaders in the industry sitting in that room, I didn't grow up through the industry, I was an outsider. So feeling like the piece that doesn't belong in there has always been something that I struggled with. And in the same way, sitting and talking to technicians and dispatchers when I've never done that job, I always struggled with that too. And the thing is that struggle is all on me.

Nobody really made me feel that way. That goes back to feeling like I didn't have the skills and the qualities to do that job. So nobody really made me feel that way. I can't say that the men in the room looked at me like what is she doing here? So that was more a confidence thing for me. But if you flip that over and say, okay, what opportunities did that bring to being one of generally the only woman in the room? And I think bringing the perspective, the unique perspective that I have of being a woman in a male dominated industry, being a wife and a mother, being an accountant, all of those different skill sets that I bring into the room offer a different perspective generally from the people that we're already sitting in that room. So I think that just level of thought diversity really made the companies better, brought different ideas to the room, brought that different perspective that I think as we continue to evolve as an industry is really, really important.

Sarah Nicastro: And that's where I kind of pushed you in the direction when I asked you about raising your hand to talk about within you, what did that take? But this is where we have to give the company credit as well because one, they were receptive to allowing you to have those learning opportunities and probably seeing that if not the pep talks you had to give yourself, recognizing that not everyone has the drive or the initiative to want to raise their hand and always say can I learn this? Can I do this right? Because there are situations, and I've had conversations with women that have been in similar situations as yours in those early days when they were the only woman in the room and they were treated in a way that reinforced that internal dialogue of I don't deserve to be here. And so this is where it's a combination of both.

It's a combination of pushing out of your comfort zone, but then we have to as organizations recognize that value of the diversity of thought and be open to hearing different opinions, perspectives, experiences. Because if they had been at all closed-minded to that, it would've shut you down and you would've probably ultimately went somewhere else or whatever would've happened, but they were open to it. So it takes that teamwork of being more open to things that are different than the historical norm and then forcing yourself to build that confidence of, no, I deserve a seat at the table just as much as anyone else here.

Kristen Nowak: So I am fully aware that there are so many women that went before me that didn't have the kind of support that I had. I had the support of the men that I walked into the room with from our organization, bringing me along and exposing me to those opportunities. Without that, I don't think as many doors would've opened for me, but because they brought me through the door with them, I was able to learn and grow. And now I sit at a place where I am not afraid to give my opinion, I am much more confident and comfortable to have those discussions and to walk through the door by myself. So that's not the case. I'm very fortunate to be in a company that had that level of support.

Sarah Nicastro: But they're very fortunate as well. And that's the thing is this isn't about, we're going to talk in a minute about diversity and different types of that, but this isn't about them bringing you along for the ride. It's about them understanding the opportunity to grow through involving people that were different than the historical norm. And the other thing is being in that situation, that mutually beneficial situation where you had the opportunity to grow, they had the opportunity to gain new perspective and skills, and you're also now sitting in a position where you can help others walk through that journey. And that is also really powerful thing.

Kristen Nowak: I think there is a piece of this conversation that you have to do that deliberately, you have to deliberately think of I want different perspectives and different ideas in the room and while combining that with the best person for the job as well. And so bringing those two together, always requiring that people are hard workers with high levels of integrity and commitment, but looking outside the box of what does that person actually look like?

Sarah Nicastro: I think we're at a point going back to the title of the podcast, what got us to where we are today is not what will take us to where we want to be. And I think we're at a point where there's this discrepancy in some cases of companies saying, and I'm not even talking about diversity necessarily right now. I'm just talking about overall, right? Saying they're open to change but not really meaning it. So in your situation, if we look back, that could have been you had an opportunity to sit at the table, but when you brought a different perspective, they could have very easily defaulted to, oh yeah, no, that's interesting, but we've always done it this way. So we just want to keep... So there's kind of this disconnect between recognizing we need to change.

But then really what does it mean to commit to getting uncomfortable and looking at just because it's always been done this way doesn't mean that's how we need to keep doing it, et cetera. I think a lot of people have some of those feelings you had of am I cut out to be here? Do I have the same right to having a voice and stuff like that? I know that today when I speak at a conference or give a keynote, I usually have people come up to me after and say, I enjoyed that so much because it felt so authentic. And that's for me, part of my journey that took building confidence and courage because early on I also was often the only woman in the room presenting to a room full of men. And I would let those feelings get the best of me to where I felt like I had to pretend to be something else.

And it took me some time to realize, no, I mean we're all smart in different ways and we all have different areas that are just not our strengths. And if we can just be ourselves, that's what brings something special to the table. And as soon as I started just letting go of what I felt I should be or needed to be or feeling like I needed to pretend to be smarter than I was in a certain area and just started focusing on being me, that's when I feel like I started actually being able to have an impact.

Kristen Nowak: Well, it's distracting and time consuming to try and wonder who you need to be that day to please the masses. That is incredibly time consuming. So when you just decide to be yourself, it just opens so many more possibilities and for you to focus on what's really important and what needs to get done.

Sarah Nicastro: But to your point, and going back to this parallel track, I have been a part of organizations that did not like for me to be myself or to have opinions that were outside of the accepted consensus. And when you find a place that really values that diversity and thinking and respects different perspectives and opinions and wants to blend that to figure out the best way forward, it makes an immense difference. So that kind of leads us to this next point, which is one of the topics of conversation that we experienced at the Connect event in Austin was around one of the biggest topics of conversation on this podcast, which is how do we bring in new talent to field service and to these roles? So we'll talk a little bit about this, but to start, can you just talk a little bit about how this challenge is impacting your organization specifically?

Kristen Nowak: Yeah, I mean this is something that I talk about every day, tends to keep me up at night. We are so far behind in recruiting and retention of technicians into this industry. It is a really scary thought of to see what 3, 5, 10 years down the road looks like if we don't change our way of thinking about this. To put it into some data in generally, we are eight days out on service if somebody calls now, that's not what happens in reality, we move things around. But if you just do the math problem and say the number of calls we get done in a day versus the number of technicians in our world, this is how long it's going to take us. This is how much of a backlog of work there is. And that's not me just speaking for unlimited service group. I have talked to leaders across our industry that are experiencing the same thing.

So we are never going to have a great customer experience if we can't tighten up those numbers a bit. And the other challenge is that when we are successful at bringing people into the industry, we are really bad at keeping them in the industry. We're not doing a great job of retaining talent. So there is so much we still have to learn and change about what we think technicians. And I'll expand that beyond, and what employees want today because we are not going to be able to serve the customers in the way that they expect and that they need in order to keep their kitchens up and running if we don't at least take a step towards solving this problem. And the ways we did it 13 years ago when I started are not the ways that work today.

Sarah Nicastro: So going back to the title of the podcast and thinking about what got us here versus what will lead us forward, what would you say about how diversity factors into that?

Kristen Nowak: Yeah, so I think there's a practical way of it. There's the practicality of we need to reach more people regardless of race, gender, any thought, we need to reach more people in order to educate them in order for our success to continue. That's just the practical nature of it. But there's also a thought around it that what worked attracted people into the industry, the type of people into the industry then is that type of person doesn't exist as much anymore. So back when schools used to have shop classes and people were attend to move towards that direction, it was much more accepting kind of back when I started and beyond when I was in high school as well. It was moving into the trades was not a default for someone that couldn't get into college or didn't want to go to college.

It was an acceptable, really sought after valued role. And then we went through this phase of, and we're still going through it where college was the only acceptable role, moving into post-secondary school that was college and now it's caused us this problem where we don't have those people that like to fix things anymore that are more inclined and well, they still like to fix things, we haven't taught them anything about that. And so we need to create those people. We need to teach those people that this is a really valuable industry to go into. It's what keeps the world running. We don't have people that can fix stuff. How do all the things around us happen? So we have to teach people again how valuable these roles are. And that is across gender, across race, that regardless of that, we need people to understand how valuable this is.

Sarah Nicastro: And I know you mentioned to me a book you had read recently on generational diversity. And so that's another area, again, I think the companies that are making the most progress are making that progress because they're not looking at diversity as one flavor of it. And they're not looking at it as, okay, well we have to do this either because society tells us we should or just because we need bodies in the door. We need to do this because we can learn so much. Not only because it's what it will take for us to continue to be able to meet customer demand, but also we can be a better business if we value diversity of thought and what that looks like for all of these different types of people.

Kristen Nowak: So it's really interesting, the book that you referenced was a book called The New Diversity. And what it was about is the diversity of generations. So what baby boomers value is not what millennials and Gen Xers and Gen Y, that's not what they value. And so when I got into this business, what the people coming into our industry valued from what their career looked like is totally different than what those coming into the workforce now look for. And we haven't adjusted what we're giving them. We're still basing our benefits, our pay, the structure of our job on what has always worked, and it doesn't speak to a new generation of employees. And so if we are stuck in that way of thinking, if we get somebody in the door, they're not going to stay because we're not valuing what's important to them.

We're not giving the benefits that's important to them. And so bringing a more generationally diverse thought diverse team into the company from a leadership level all the way down is going to have you start realizing what things that the new workforce coming into the industry values. It's so important if you want to start building for us the next generation of technicians that's going to stay 5, 10, 15 years.

Sarah Nicastro: And I think sometimes what happens here, when we spoke to prep for this, we talked about the fact that even within field service, there's a lot of different types of field service. There are field technicians that they do need to have a college degree or they are working in this type of environment, et cetera. And we talked about how for you, it is very much the traditionally viewed as more blue collar type service work. It can be dirty, it can be grimy, et cetera. And so sometimes I think organizations that fall into that category, and I hope you don't take offense to this, but almost use that as an excuse to not get creative because it's kind of like, it's this self-fulfilling prophecy of, well, this is already a challenge for everyone. And then you have these organizations where they're going to work in an IT environment, and of course they would just pick that and we're doomed.

And it's not to ignore the realities of those challenges, but it also can't detract from the responsibility the organization has to adapt. And I think that what I try and push or say to people is, no matter what your circumstances, there are ways you can evolve and improve. There are ways for you to change and make these roles more appealing for the candidates you have today if you want to. You just can't come at it from a mindset of, well, that would never work.

Kristen Nowak: That never works for us. And it was kind of a light bulb moment sitting in that conference with you, we were all talking about this challenge of bringing new talent into the industry, bringing into service. And I remember sitting there thinking, well, thank goodness it's not just me and everybody's struggling with this. There's comfort in numbers. And then I was like, oh, wow, everybody is struggling with this. We are all competing for the same group of candidates. And I did, I had the thought you just said the limiting thought you just said, wow, I don't have the best story to tell. We are working in chaotic, dangerous situations in sometimes dirty kitchens and at all hours of the day and night on holidays and on weekends.

It doesn't feel like a great story to tell, but it's our responsibility as leaders of the industry, those that are tasked with growing our companies to find the story that's compelling and I know this is a great industry. I know that they're great people in this industry. I have to tell that story instead of saying, hey, you want to come work for me and work on a fryer? It's got to be a better story than that, and that's our responsibility to your point, we can't just sit back and say, this is too hard.

Sarah Nicastro: And this is the intersection back to valuing diversity of thought generational and otherwise because if you're willing to move past that initial uh oh, like we have a hard challenge here, which again is true, but if that's the challenge you have, then if to move past the emotion, figure out how to start solving it. If you really value different perspectives, then it gives you the ability to go out and start engaging with different groups of people that you could potentially bring into this space and just initially do so with the objective of understanding what do they think of it? Maybe you start there, not even what do they want out of it, but what do they think of it and what narratives do you maybe need to work on shifting or telling the story better?

And then what do they want? What's important to them, what would make them stay at a job or not? And that's the insight that if you're open to it can help you start getting creative internally about what you can craft into something that is compelling to the people that you want to bring in. And yes, it's a lot of work. I mean, there's no way around that, but to your point earlier, your success in three to five years depends on doing that work. So it's hard work, but it's important work.

Kristen Nowak: And I think to your point, I think the most important thing that we can do to get past this is to listen. And then the second most important thing that we can do is to act, to go out and do the next right thing that speaks to our team members and starts giving them the things that they value and changing our organization so that it's attractive to future generations and sustainable for future generations.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, I always think to me, one category you always hear people really value today is flexibility. So I've heard plenty of service organizations say, well, we can't offer that service is 24 hour a day business, okay, yes, but are we picking this apart in the right way? Yes, it's a 24 hour a day business, but that doesn't mean every employee you have needs... And this is what I mean about people get very set in well, for the last 20, 30 years, we've had a team of people that worked this schedule and they just don't necessarily think, well, what if we did this? What if we did a rotation? What if we did whatever? And that's where I urge people to, you got to get creative. I mean, if the game has changed, you have to change with it. And it's not about continuing to where's Waldo find the people that will fit into the mold we've always had.

Kristen Nowak: Break the mold.

Sarah Nicastro: Yes, exactly. Are there other things that you think about when you think about figuring out the story you need to tell or figuring out how to accommodate what people value today? Are there things that come to mind?

Kristen Nowak: Well, I think you just hit on it a little bit. When I first started, I could not give away enough overtime for an example, everybody wanted the overtime hours. When I hired somebody new, they were like, well, what's that going to do to my overtime? Everybody filled the on-call schedule right now. I can't get anybody that wants to work, be in an on-call schedule or work overtime. And so it just shows that at one point they valued the saving of money and earning as much as they can, and now they're valuing more time is more their currency. I mean, you still have to have a great pay and all the benefits that go along with that, but you have to be able to listen to, okay, now time is more valued. So to your point, what is the end state? What does service utopia look like for a technician?

And then start working backwards to the small steps that you can take. So in order for me to have, if a flexible schedule is the end state, in order for me to have that and offer that, I've got to have this number of technicians, this volume of technicians, then I've got to develop what those shifts are that we can still meet the customer need, and then I've got to find people that can fit into them. So just do the next right thing to find what could get you there. Because you can't get there overnight. You can't say, tomorrow I'm going to offer flexible schedules, or I'm going to offer zero cost insurance or unlimited PTO, or anything like that. You have to start at what's the next right thing that I can do to start working towards that and bring those team members along with you in that conversation so they know what you're working for working towards for them. That's going to build a lot of value and a lot of loyalty, them seeing the process and the progress that you're making towards making their work environment better.

Sarah Nicastro: No, that makes perfect sense. If you think about how we started this conversation, what got us to where we are today isn't what will get us to where we want to go, are there other areas that you feel leaders need to be really thinking about and reflecting on?

Kristen Nowak: Well, it's a great question, and I think it all comes back to value. It really all comes back to what your team members value. So is it time, is it benefits? Is it pay? Is it work environment, work from home or work from the office? I think the pandemic it was such a challenging time for so many people, but it also taught us so much about our team and that we really can trust them to know what is best and to do the hard work for our organization. So I think what we have to do better as an organization, as an industry, and I would say for everybody, is listening and asking people what would make a successful work environment for you?

What is it that keeps you sticky to a company and staying around? What do you think we need to do to grow? I mean, all of these people have great ideas. We just rarely ask them. So invite others into the room with you and listen. And that's where, back to my early days where I was the payroll person and the HR person and the customer person, you don't need to be that anymore. Invite these people along to have the conversation with you, and you're just going to get better from there. More is better, together is better.

Sarah Nicastro: It's just like we said in the beginning, it's about valuing different perspectives. And to your point, I think if you're really open to listening to those different perspectives, it will guide you toward what the things are that you need to get creative about and work on changing. All right. Kristen, last question is 13 years in field service, and what is the biggest lesson you've learned as a leader in field service?

Kristen Nowak: Oh gosh. That I'm always learning. That I'm always learning, and that you can never have enough good people around you. There's no room for ego, there's no room for arrogance, and you're better together than on your own.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, I think that's great. And I think that mentality of not only mentality, but hunger to always be learning. I mean, that's what keeps people relevant over a long period of time. The worst thing you can do is feel like you've got it all figured out, right? If you know don't, and no one ever does, then you just continue that journey of soaking up the different knowledge and experiences.

Kristen Nowak: It's hard because you just like, okay, I know this. I'm just going to get this done. I'm just going to move forward. I'm just going to make this decision. When you don't bring people along with you, the unintended con consequences that you can alienate them. And while we always have to, as leaders, we're in the business of making decisions and setting strategy, and so sometimes you have to be the one that makes that final call, but it's always better when you brought people along with you.

Sarah Nicastro: Absolutely. All right. Well, thank you so much for coming and talking with me. I really appreciate it.

Kristen Nowak: Yeah. Thank you so much for having me, Sarah. I enjoyed it.

Sarah Nicastro: Absolutely. You can find more by visiting us at futureoffieldservice.com. I want to make sure you are aware that we have recently introduced the Future of Field Service Insider. If you subscribe to the Insider, we will make sure that every other week we deliver the latest Future of Field Service content to your inbox, along with some exclusives for our community. We also have announced the dates for the 2023 Future of Field Service Live Tour. We will be in six countries between March and September. So have a look at the schedule and register for the event nearest you. The Future of Field Service podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more at ifs.com. As always, thank you for listening.

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Celebrating the Voices of the Women of Future of Field Service on IWD 2023

March 6, 2023 | 9 Mins Read

Celebrating the Voices of the Women of Future of Field Service on IWD 2023

By Sarah Nicastro, Creator, Future of Field Service

This week is International Womens Day (IWD) and in recognition of that we have some great women-led content to feature! Coming up Wednesday, I talk with a woman field service leader about her journey, lessons learned, and vision for the future. For today, I thought what better way to celebrate than to showcase some of amazing women I’ve been fortunate to have as guests on the Future of Field Service podcast.

The IWD theme this year is #EmbraceEquity – with an emphasis on understanding the difference between equality and equity. Equality means opening up opportunities to all, while equity-based solutions to inclusion take into account the diverse experiences of individuals. That is a critical difference, particularly in industries (like field service and others) where the workforce is not exactly as diverse as it could be. There are barriers to entry that go beyond just the existence of available opportunities.

When it comes to the idea of embracing equity, I believe listening to women’s stories is a powerful way to learn. I am so thankful to the women who take the time to share their stories and insights with me and with the Future of Field Service audience. I love that there’s a good range of industries, roles, and topics represented – along with their own unique experiences – and today I’m reflecting back on some of the wise words of the past year.

At the Future of Field Service Live Tour event in Austin last year, I had a conversation with Sonya Roshek, VP Field Services at B+T Group that focused a lot on the ongoing challenges of being a woman in this industry, how things have changed, and what work still needs to be done, particularly around the cultural assumptions that still dog a lot of managers.

Sonya said: … I actually remember having my supervisor in Idaho, he's like, "I don't want to hire women, they can't lift." I'm like, "Our job description says 50 pounds, go get a bag of dog food, put it in your office. They can pick it up, put it on their shoulder, you're hiring her." [There is just a] mindset of, women can't do this. Not, "How can we engage women?" It was just, "Women can't do this." And so when I look at women in the workplace, I was talking to somebody in the back there and the reality is, it starts when we have children. We give girls a doll and we give boys a hammer and drills and a toolbox and let them go take things apart.

We don't do that with girls. I mean, so why are we expecting girls to be in field services and be technical, because we just don't train our girls to do that? I think it's getting better. Title IX helped a little bit. But … I think that's where initially I think we need to start looking.

Last November, I spoke with independent IT services contract technician Tamika Fields who had this to say about the value of both full-time and contract technicians, and the diverse points of view, talents, and experiences available for service companies: I feel like the available independent contracting opportunities in addition to the full time employment opportunities, they're going to continue. As you say, the need is there. It's just that if we keep open dialogue with the diverse sums of experience that are being leveraged, it allows capable talent and intelligent technicians to just contribute in a way that's more sustainable in the long run. It just allows individual contributors like myself to make a greater impact. And now, I think that'll just make us all stronger than any one individual part of the whole.

I recently interviewed Danielle Waterworth, VP-NA Dealer & Customer Solutions and Global Maintenance & Service Development at CNH Industrial (which specializes in agricultural equipment) about how the company is segmenting and evolving its service offerings, and the importance of considering the end-to-end use of the equipment when differentiating your service offerings.

Danielle shared: At the end of the day, you can design the perfect widget and think that it's wonderful … [but] then if you haven't figured it out though, how it's actually going to be utilized and acquired into the market – that's the key point, that should drive everything that you do. How is this actually going to provide value back into your customer and dealer base? And if it's not, then you need to go back to the drawing board because it's probably not something that you need to spend your time on.

And it's really important that when they're in the field harvesting that they have that assurance that their machine is going to perform, or that there are people behind them that are going to enable that to occur. So we look at not just selling them an asset anymore, but the whole captive finance model, base warranty, extended warranty. How can we make sure that we're looking at you and your dealerships from a maintenance and inspection perspective before you go into a planting and harvesting season, which are their heavy times of use? So it's looking at that in that holistic picture, and that really starts defining how you go to market versus your competitors.

I had a really interesting and thought-provoking discussion with Amy Herman, New York Times Best-Selling attorney, former Frick Collection Head of Education and art historian, and author of Fixed: How to Perfect the Fine Art of Problem Solving about the power of thinking out of the box.

Amy said:…Let me try something different this time to see if it works. And you know what, sometimes it doesn't, and it's an epic fail, but sometimes you fail forward. It doesn't work out, but you say, you know what, I tried it because I learned something. And sometimes you go back to your default thinking, but I want to give people another avenue because of all the problems we're facing right now, some of them are just intractable. Some of them are just such new dilemmas that I want to give people a new way to think.

Sometimes good is just good enough. Sometimes you have to solve a problem and you need to put all the pieces in place because you gotta get out the door or you can't let everything fall apart. So I don't think we need to strive for perfection every day. I don't. And you know what? That's hard … So, one of my biggest takeaways is don't let perfection be the enemy of the good. We don't have to be perfect all the time.

I recently welcomed Dr. Elizabeth Moran, former VP of Global Talent Development at ADP, who now works as a consultant and executive coach and recently published the book Forward: Leading Your Team Through Change.

Elizabeth shared:…As soon as you shift your mindset that somebody's reaction or tough question is not a barometer of my change-leadership ability ... And it might not even be a barometer that they're resisting change or not. Resistance is simply concerns that haven't yet been addressed. So, if you can shift to that, that often helps again ... As I like to say, as soon as we trigger curiosity in ourselves, that oftentimes alone reduces our own anxiety. In the brain, there's a different emotion that's now in line in your amygdala, and it's not fear or anxiety.

What I like to say to leaders is across the board, the one tip that will really help is, "Stop thinking you have to give an answer right away."

Last fall, I spoke with Elizabeth Dixon, who previously led Strategy, Hospitality, and Service Design at Chic-fil-A Corporate and has authored the book The Power of Customer Experience: Five Elements to Make an Impact.

Elizabeth said:…What's amazing is that the frontline employees typically are going to be the ones who come up with the very best solutions and they can anticipate the problems faster than anybody else. Why? Because they're dealing with it. And they're the ones who are thinking, you know, how we could do this better.

And so if we can go ahead and in that moment when someone comes along and says, "I have an idea," and we want to be like, shut it down, the best thing as leaders we can do is to just say, tell me about it. Open up the space. Give enough oxygen in the room for people to share the ideas that they have. We don't have to act on it, but let's at least be able to talk about it. And once we can talk about it, if we can then move to the place where we can actually have a system and a process for collecting pain points and solutions and making those connections better, and finding those people who are great at identifying the pain points and finding the solutions and put them in positions to be able to do that more often, then that's the next level.

In an important discussion with Darcy Gruttadaro, former Director of the Center for Workplace Mental Health, part of the APA Foundation, we discussed employee mental health and how to avoid burnout.

Darcy explained:…If you're an employee in an organization that shows they care about you, not just your physical health, but your mental health too, you're going to walk into that business every day, or get ready to go wherever you're going in the field, and you will feel much better about the fact that your organization cares about you. And in turn, you will be a high performer whether you live with a condition or not.

And the more they feel good about what they're doing because they're being treated well and they're in a culture that cares about them, the more they're going to project a positive image for the brand, which really matters at the end of the day with the competitive marketplaces we all work in.

In a conversation last year at the Live Tour in Stockholm, Berit Hallgren, Program Director at Tetra Pak, shared some excellent advice on strategic alignment, prioritization, and change management.

Berit said:…[Be] clear on why you are doing this. What are the problems you want to solve? Because if that is not clear, how can you communicate to your audiences? And then, what are the areas you want to transform in the end? It needs to also be very clear for people, so they understand we are not going everywhere. We are going in these specific areas.

So, bringing that and also showing to the organization, "This is where we want to go. This is where we are." That becomes really, really powerful. And then, I mean, "What's in it for me?" You need to be able to explain that for the customer, for the employees, and for the company as well, because it's not the same message to all of these people. And finally, I will say, have courage because it takes... That's probably one of my stronger skills. I'm persistent, "So, okay. Didn't go this way. Let's try the other way." Because you need that when you drive a big transformation. You have to be persistent because it will take time. There will be challenges, but it will happen if you have decided it will happen, it will happen, but you need to be persistent.

And Carolyn Stern, emotional intelligence and leadership development expert and author of the book The Emotionally Strong Leader: An Inside-Out Journey to Transformational Leadership spoke with us about how more vulnerable leaders are taking center stage.

Carolyn:…Here's the biggest thing that I get asked by executives. You do not need to be a therapist or a financial advisor or a lawyer for any one of your employees' problems. All you have to do is listen and coach them … [C]oaching others is really about asking them questions so that they figure out the answers, so you don't have to be the problem-solving hero, right?

I just hope if I could get leaders to just learn one thing, it would be [to] stop being so afraid of your emotions. They're just feelings. Feelings are not facts. They're not always factual. They can be factual, but they're not always. But they're fleeting, and we feel thousands of them, hundreds of them, lots of them throughout a day or throughout a week or throughout a month.

They're transient. They're incredibly personal. And it's hard to be an objective bystander from your own emotions, but that is the key to your success.

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Macro Themes Making Service More Strategic

March 1, 2023 | 28 Mins Read

Macro Themes Making Service More Strategic

Sarah welcomes Curtis Novinger, Regional VP of Service, P3 Services to discuss the trends he sees when evaluating businesses for investment on how companies are embracing opportunities to innovate and make service more strategic.

Sarah Nicastro: Welcome to the Future of Field Service podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Today we're going to be talking about some of the macro trends that are involved in making service more strategic. I'm excited to be joined today by Curtis Novinger, who is the regional Vice President of Services at P3 Services. Curtis, welcome to the Future of Field Service Podcast.

Curtis Novinger: Good to be with you Sarah.

Sarah Nicastro: Thanks for being here. So before we get into our topic for the day, tell our listeners a little bit about yourself, your role at P3 and your sort of journey in field service.

Curtis Novinger: Sure. Well, currently I'm Regional Vice President of Service for P3. P3 is a family of companies across the United States. We have HVAC, plumbing and electrical businesses, primarily in the plumbing space right now. And my job is to support those companies and help them grow and provide services that help them get better. So prior to joining P3, I was Vice President of Service Operations for Comfort Systems USA. That's about a $3 billion business. They have 40 companies nationwide, about 140 locations. I worked with teams in sales, operations, and then the last three years I was there, I was doing a lot of equipment as a service development, developing products and remote monitoring systems that allowed us to offer services, full service agreements. So prior to that, I got into the industry while I was in architecture school, I worked as a plumber nights and weekends. And when I got out of school, instead of going into private practice, I started a plumbing company. And then I sold that company in 2008 to Comfort Systems USA. I've got three kids, two of which will be driving next week.

Sarah Nicastro: Wow. Next week.

Curtis Novinger: I was doing parallel parking last night in the dark with trash cans as cars because we hit some trash cans. So I'll have a lot of extra time on my hands, but my insurance rates are definitely going to go up.

Sarah Nicastro: Wow, that's exciting and scary all at the same time. Okay. So when we were preparing for this podcast, we talked, you have quite an interesting background in terms of your experiences growing up and through school and how that, we talked a little bit about how maybe that impacts your viewpoints and how you look at things going on around you. Can you share a little bit about that?

Curtis Novinger: Well, I never thought that I would be a plumber. My dad and family, we worked on apartments that we purchased when I was a kid, so I would follow him around and fix air conditioning units and that kind of thing. But my mom was an opera singer. She passed away here a few months ago, but she was, had a master's degree in opera from Columbia University in New York, and dad was an international banker. So my parents got divorced. My mom said, business is evil, you should either play the violin, do something else. And so I went to school at McGill University and studied philosophy for four years, which I realized unless you don't want to be a lawyer, it's very difficult to get a job. And I had that same struggle. So kind of went back to what I did with my dad as a kid and started fixing houses and that's how I supported myself and until I went back to school.

But I think I studied philosophy partly just to try to understand some of the patterns behind how people think and what drives them. And I do that at work. That's just kind of naturally how I think and definitely enjoy identifying patterns in how the businesses operate and just how in general the market works mostly to identify biases that give people, if you recognize you have a bias and give you a competitive advantage if you can address it. So that's sort of what I've done over the last few years, both identifying ways in helping customers in unique ways, but also to build business strategy in a way that you're working in the blue ocean rather than staying in the red ocean with all the rest of the competitors.

Sarah Nicastro: And maybe that's how we got on that topic. My undergrad was in psychology. And I mean similarly, I feel like it leads into everything I do because I'm just very interested in understanding how people are thinking and how their mind is working. We had a podcast last week with an author who is a neuroscientist by trade and talking about change management. And it was so interesting to me to put that context to a lot of the challenges that the people we talk to regularly here have in terms of, well, we're trying to change X, but we're facing so much resistance. And then look at picking apart what's behind that. And I do think it's really interesting and it's a level of examination that maybe the average bear doesn't bring to those situations. And so having those conversations, understanding those perspectives can be so helpful in then working through some of those challenges. Or to your point, developing strategy or understanding biases, etcetera.

So, yeah. But then to your point, you know, you end up places you didn't really anticipate being and life unfolds and takes you in wild directions. But that's cool. Very good. Okay, so in your role at P3, you're helping evaluate a lot of different investments in service businesses. And so, kind of taking a look at not only to your point, how can we differentiate or how should we set a strategy that that's in the blue ocean, not the red ocean, etcetera, but really just taking in what's going on in these different organizations that you're having a look at or evaluating, etcetera. So, when you think about what you're seeing and also the experiences you had at Comfort Systems, so inside of the business, where do you think we are on this evolution of making service more strategic? So moving away from the very tactical break, fix, transactional type of service to what I know, you and I both have opinions on what it can be.

Curtis Novinger: And I think I can speak to my industry specifically. I think we're way behind a lot of the adjacent markets like aerospace, for instance, they're way ahead of us in that regard. Our industry is still very fragmented, which is partly why there's so much interest from private equity. There's about a hundred thousand plumbing contractors nationwide, give or take. And it's going up. It's becoming more fragmented even though there's a lot of consolidation. So what that means is that most of the businesses are small. They're run by a service plumber that struck out on his own, kind of like me. And he's not only just the plumber, he's the accountant, he's the bookkeeper, he's dispatching, and there's not a lot of time in a business like that to work on a business. So strategic thinking, if it didn't take place before he started and got in that gauntlet of meet and payroll every week and collecting money, then it maybe doesn't happen for quite a while.

But there's certain things going on in the market right now that's changing that at that level, that million to $5 million business, which makes up the majority of the market. Then there's the field service management software that's out there, Service Max, Service Titan, is doing much better job not just providing dispatch and routing, but they're offering workflows that allow you to structure a business in the most economical fashion. They have much better financial reporting. A lot of the dashboards give you insight. And once you have that system set up, that kind of strategy, working on the business, just becomes a natural part of how you do the work. So that effort, by and large, has been done by people outside of the business using processes from other adjacent markets to apply them to the plumbing industry.

The other thing that's happening, or I guess one of the things I said about, unless you start the business with a specific strategy in mind, a lot of times you're just being a generic plumber. So I look, when I'm looking at plumbing companies, I like to see a company that has a unique offering. Lots of businesses, you see the trucks on the street, they say they do everything. They think that that's a positive thing. They do residential and commercial, they do drain cleaning, they do boilers, they basically fix everything. Well, if you're working on everything, it's hard to be good at any one thing. So companies that start out, at least with a unique offering or a unique tool or a service that's provides them a competitive advantage, oftentimes they're built strategically from the get-go.

But as far as transitioning from break fix model to equipment as a service, we're a long ways away from making that happen globally in the industry, probably because of the fragmented nature of the business. And so a few of the companies that start out offering equipment as a service, and they evolve very slowly. I think the pressures in that regard are coming from outside the industry. So you have first tier distributors that are getting into equipment as a service and they're becoming direct competitors with their customers, the subcontractors. But that's becoming more commonplace. And I think that that's happening up the food chain.

So before that quote, say you're building a high-rise apartment complex before the actual construction documents get sent to the subcontractors, the equipment rooms are being pulled out of the scope of work and being given to a first-tier distributor. And so the subcontractors don't even see that scope of work. So they don't even know that their customers are, or their vendors, are actually a direct competitor. We have a lot of that here in central Texas with central plants being offered as equipment as a service and plumbing construction companies, they're putting in the piping, they, they're excited about doing the work, but the reality of the fact is that the highest profit scope of work in that high-rise building is the central plan.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah.

Curtis Novinger: So I don't know if that answers your question about strategic versus tactical.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah. No, it makes sense. So in plumbing, specifically, there's a long way to go. And it sounds like with what you're telling me is happening, that the progress that is being made is starting on the commercial side. Right? I mean, it's talking about building these new developments and that's where this concept that is likely mutually beneficial for the people that are building the infrastructure versus the suppliers that are offering the equipment as a service, even though I know they're leaving the contractors out of the equation. If you just take it a step up and look at how that relationship is developing, the people building these buildings know that there's value in being able to consume the equipment as a service. And the suppliers of that equipment are recognizing that even though they're not, the plumbing contractors aren't always recognizing that those suppliers are becoming a competitor. Right?

Curtis Novinger: Correct.

Sarah Nicastro: Okay.

Curtis Novinger: And 10 years ago, if we came up against, say, a train distributor in a new construction job and we realized they were also bidding the equipment, we'd call them and say, "Hey, we're a bid on this," and they would back out. Now, they're not in that situation because that scope of work isn't even offered to us. And so we're not in a situation where we can ask them to back out because we're not competing with them. They already have the work.

Sarah Nicastro: Right.

Curtis Novinger: That's how they're dealt with it. And that was 10 years ago. Now it's just a generally accepted practice. And I think, in some ways, subcontractors haven't realized how much work has stopped coming to them.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, that's interesting. So let me rewind back for one minute and then we're going to come back to talking a little bit about the as a service. So when you're looking at different organizations for P3 to potentially invest in, I want to talk about what stands out to you in terms of indicating that they're a good candidate. And then, on the other hand, what are some red flags that make you think, "We'll stay away from these organizations?"

Curtis Novinger: Well, when we do our market analysis of businesses before we even call the companies, we're checking the size of the business, the financials to a certain extent, and identifying whether it fits our investment model. But once we get to a point where we're doing site visits, if I'm going on a site visit, I'm looking for things like a lot of trucks in the parking lot. If there's a bunch of service vehicles that aren't out on the road, they're sitting there, that tells me about how the business is being run.

If I'm meeting with an owner, if they answer their phone every five minutes and they can't take an hour away from the business, that tells me about the fragility in some ways of the business. When we look for a company, we're definitely looking for businesses that have some kind of succession plan. They have a strong second that's working in the business, and the owner is in a position where they can step back and the business will continue operating without him or her. Things that concern us, believe it or not, rapid growth over the last year or two is something that we worry about. Sometimes it takes a while for growth like that to be absorbed into the natural processes of the company, and it can put it at risk of falling back to reduce in size once we purchase it. So we like to see regular sustained growth over a number of years as opposed to rapid growth over the last couple.

Sarah Nicastro: That makes sense.

Curtis Novinger: We look at employee retention, got great employee retention, says something about the culture. And then, of course, once we start getting into the due diligence piece of it, we're looking for any kind of legacy legal issues or high risk safety, OIR ratings, that kind of thing.

Sarah Nicastro: Okay. All right. Okay. So let's go back to talking then about some of these macro trends that you're watching, that others are watching, that are going on. So going back to the conversation around as a service. So, we started talking about where things are today, particularly versus 10 years ago, and what's kind of going on right now at the equipment supplier level versus the plumbing contractor standpoint. So, what I'm interested to hear your thoughts on then is, what is the untapped potential? How can this play out? Because I obviously don't know a ton about the plumbing industry, in particular, and so I'm thinking, I'm interested to hear how this is going to evolve or how you think it could evolve in the most positive way. There's obviously a lot of opportunity, and so whether it takes 10 years, 20 years to really see that opportunity land, what do you think is going to happen?

Curtis Novinger: Well, so I think of that in two terms. So in terms of what's keeping the brakes on growth and then what are the opportunities for maybe a different strategy or some kind of new business, new growth and it's no secret that the skilled labor shortage is causing an issue. So I feel like companies that can solve that problem better or faster or uniquely are in a competitive advantage and then have the opportunity to grow. It's 47% of the workforce is female, but less than 2% of the workforce is in our actual trade. And even smaller number is physically working in the field. They might be in dispatch or in accounting, but they're not working with their tools. That is a huge miss on our part. And you shouldn't be talking about a labor shortage without addressing that opportunity to fix it. How do you reach out to women and get them excited about working with their hands in the field?

One of the effects of having a bunch of small businesses in the plumbing industry is that the people with the financial decision power come from the field, because the companies aren't large enough to go hire a CPA and put them in a position where they're an operations manager or a CFO. It's a small business of maybe 10 employees. So if the majority of your industry is made up of small businesses in the one to 3 million revenue phase, then, and most of the decision makers are men because they came out of the field, then, the industry as a whole, has a bias against just seeing the world through a male lens. So not only is it an opportunity to solve this skill shortage by bringing women into the industry, but you bring in a whole new perspective of how to run a business, how to treat employees, what kind of strategies to use.

And in the residential space, 85% of the decision makers in the home are women. And so, why wouldn't you have women running the company so that they can communicate with their customer in a way that men just don't know how to do? So I think that's one opportunity. One of the, I was thinking about this, and of course there's a whole bunch of obvious answers to this question, but one of the things I've seen happen just in the last two years not only in Texas, but throughout probably the world, is two weeks ago we had an ice storm. I didn't have power for eight days, didn't have water for a while. It's not a good thing for your wife to say, "You're a plumber and you're the only one on the street that doesn't have water. Go fix it." But what is that? And two years before that, in Texas we had this massive snowstorm.

So within the space of two years, we've had two storms that were worse than anything else that's happened in the last 100 years. What's happening right now is the insurance claims are finally hitting market two years later. And so premiums are going up and people that are building high rise buildings have risk management programs and they're saying, "Look, unless you have a smart pipe system or this project, your umbrella coverage is going to be 10 times less or your premium's going to be more, or your deductible is going to be a lot higher." We just started construction on a 53-story high-rise apartment in downtown Austin, and the umbrella for leaks was $40 million. But then when they started doing the risk management program, they said, "Well, no, we're going to reduce, unless you have some way of shutting the water off if there's a leak, your umbrella coverage is $4 million."

Our personal deductible was $50,000 prior to the storm two years ago. It's now $250,000. So what's that mean? Where does that, what's that do? I don't think that trend's going to change. We're going to continue to have unusual storms that are going to cause wide scale damage. Insurance premiums will continue to go up. And so where's the opportunity for plumbing? Well, obviously, applying technology to piping to predict failure is an opportunity, and that's something that we've gotten involved in pretty heavily. We're installing systems on our construction sites that allow us to turn the water off at night if sensors, and we're also metering the water to determine whether or not there is a leak. And then we have a whole team of people that are monitoring those systems remotely. And we're offering that service as, that equipment as a service. So we're offering that as a program where you hire us for X number of dollars per month and we'll take care of the security of your water system while the construction is in service.

So other trends, ChatGPT, I'm going to throw it out 'cause it's all over the market right now. So how does that apply to plumbing? Well, a lot of decisions are made online right now, and when we hire a marketing company, unfortunately, they tend to create organic content that is just rotten because they have to throw in all these keywords and it has very little value. And what I see happening is that content's going to get better, but it's also going to become more common. So organic search is going to change rapidly over the next few years and figuring out how to be successful in that space is a limiter to growth. If you can't figure out how to be one of the top 10 search results for a new customer, then you're going to, you're not going to have a growth opportunity that you should have otherwise.

So I still think that there's space for true content and not only just to increase your results in Google, but to build culture and build family, build rapport with your employees and coming up with a program to generate that kind of talent content, celebrate your employees, document your potlucks and show people that your training opportunities is increasingly important. But ChatGPT is going to make it easier. We were just writing bios for our guys. So one of the opcodes when we dispatch the technician that sends a picture of the technician that's going and then a brief bio of who they are.

We use ChatGPT to do that. It took us 10 minutes. The bios are amazing. It was written by someone, one of the dispatchers where that would have taken all kinds of time going back and forth and editing it then. I mean, they're good. So, another thing I think that's going to happen is flat rate pricing is ubiquitous in the residential space. I see it going, I see it happening in commercial service really soon. It's already apartment complexes, multifamily businesses, they're already asking for it. I really think that that's going to expand into the commercial market, which means that the hourly employees in commercial service will be given the opportunity to work on commission. I think I see that expanding.

Sarah Nicastro: And how do you think that will change, not change, but impact the recruiting of new talent?

Curtis Novinger: It definitely increases the compensation for the employee. It takes the uncertainty from the employer away from paying an employee a lot of money. So it's, a lot of times there's a risk to paying an hourly employee a lot of money because it's not directly tied to revenue or to gross profit. Whereas in a commission based model, it's directly tied to profit. So if you set it up properly, if your plumber is making money for the company, they're making a lot of money and everyone's happy. And to a certain extent also the customer's getting better value because they have someone that's talking to them about their options. They're getting pricing before the work is done, and they're in more in control of how to spend their money. Whereas in a T and M model, the customers are buying a state not knowing what the market price is and they're sitting having to pay for it even if they don't like the state.

Sarah Nicastro: Makes sense. So one of the other things we talked about when we were chatting for this session was around leadership. So how does that factor into all of this?

Curtis Novinger: Leadership, in what context?

Sarah Nicastro: So we talked about plateaus caused by leadership. So what that makes me think of is that there's some really traditional old school leaders in place that aren't maybe as willing to see some of the potential or try new things or think differently, etcetera.

Curtis Novinger: Yeah, that maybe I'll get at it. We can probably get at this a lot of different ways, but one of the things I think about is when you grow a business, there tends to be revenue plateaus. There's a plateau at a million dollars, at $4 million, at $8 million at 15, 30, 50, 100, 150. And a lot of times each of those plateaus require, in order to get through a plateau, it requires the leader to evolve and develop new skills. So the $1 million plateau to the $4 million plateau is that leader has to get out of his truck and trust other people to do the work and take care of his customers for him.

For the $4 million to $8 million plateau, the leader needs to find someone in the office he can hand, or she, typically he, right, can hand off control to. So they can focus on marketing, growing sales, developing technicians. Oftentimes the reason $4 million businesses fail is because their business, they're not being run as a business. When you get into the eight to $15 million range, it's about bringing in multiple trades, multiple offerings. There's a different business strategy. You have to, over $4 million, maybe you're offering HVAC as well as plumbing or you're moving into a different market.

So being able to structure an org chart that's that much more complicated requires another skillset. But as far as leadership goes, I think some of it, leaders that can make that transition that can grow are leaders that are willing to spend time being ignorant, really, really being spending time going, "You know what? I don't know how to do this." Reaching out for help or just genuinely some reflecting and saying, "Man, I just can't seem to get past $4 million. What do I need to do differently?" And that's not an easy skill to develop, right? No one wants to feel ignorant, and yet being able to lean into that space is one of the main limiters to growth.

So leadership, in general, what does it mean? I think one of the struggles with transitioning from traditional break fix models to equipment as a service is having the guts to act on a very risky, scary transition. And we've talked about swallowing the fish and how do you deal with drops in revenue and cash flow issues when you're growing a new business? I think in our market, really, that's why I think that work will go to adjacent businesses or companies that start out with the goal of being in equipment as a service business and having backing perhaps from private equity. I don't see as many transitions taking place in the smaller fragmented market that makes up most of the plumbing industry.

Sarah Nicastro: And that was kind of a point I was going to come back to because when you were explaining what's happening right now with the suppliers starting to take that on and the plumbing contractors not even necessarily being aware of that competition. I was going to come back to that and ask, so can that even change, right? Because it kind of seems to me like that will only snowball. I mean, the more those suppliers see the benefit and the value of those partnerships, the more then they're going to do. And I don't see a plumbing contractor being capable in most senses, of taking that on. You know what I mean? Like winning that competition. But maybe that's just limited view. I don't know.

Curtis Novinger: No. I think of, like when you look at the, I'm trying to figure out how to unpack that. I guess I agree with you. I think in general that's going to happen less in a lot of equity money that's been hitting the market for decades now has been focused on aggregating fragmented business, showing value by buying a lot of companies. That's what Comfort Systems started doing in '99. So it's, I'm sure there's MBA terms for this, but you're essentially aggregating a bunch of fragmented businesses. I think the money that's going to change and help us transition to equipment of service is going to come almost from venture capital, angel investing where they say, "Look, let's start this whole new platform. We're not going to buy an existing platform. We're going to give you money to go play in equipment as a service and grow the business from the ground up."

And it might be that you take an existing company that's been doing distribution, you say, "Look, let's start and build a service business, but instead of just doing break fix, we're going to use your warranty team and we're going to do new installs as a service." I think that's where the main change is going to happen, unfortunately.

Sarah Nicastro: Do you feel the demand is there?

Curtis Novinger: Yeah, it makes sense.

Sarah Nicastro: It does.

Curtis Novinger: It just makes sense.

Sarah Nicastro: It does. And so much else in our world has already moved to a subscription model. I mean, it does make sense. Same the example you gave about the pipes and offering that as a service monitoring, etcetera. I mean, it's just, to me, consumers, whether those are individual consumers or commercial consumers, want the simplicity of just saying, "Yes, we will pay you if you worry about just making sure this works." You know what I mean? "If you can just tell us our building won't flood and that X, Y, and Z will happen the way it should tell us where to sign up, we'll pay you monthly for that and all is well." And there's obviously, in the examples that we've talked through on here, there's a lot of ways that that setup is equally valuable to the provider of said as a service, if they're understanding the opportunity for what it is.

And that's the challenge with what we're talking about is who's capable of transitioning or is it more, to your point, new entrant. If you think about just a couple of the stories we've had on this podcast, we did an podcast with Care in Singapore, and they have over, I think it's about a decade, converted their entire business to as a service. Really cool story. We did a podcast with Baxi in the UK and there're earlier on in that journey, but doing something similar. Now, there's some differences though in the sense of there being nudged significantly by environmental regulations. So it's like there's this additional pressure to react where if you strip that out, would they still be where they are on that journey? But then you think about, another one we did was with Koolmill. Now different industry. They're a rice milling company, but they are a disruptor in a very traditional industry who came in to your point, and Alec from there, and I even talked about the fact that he has it a lot easier not having the legacy to overcome.

I mean, this is how it was begun. It's different. He's not saying it's easy, right? Because he still has to navigate the existing way of doing business with the people he's selling to, right? It's still different for the customer, but that's one battle. Instead of being a company that's transitioning who's battling that plus a whole internal battle of, "No, this is different than what we do, we do this." That sort of thing. So, I guess I've seen examples on both sides. Care is one that did a good job of transitioning a legacy business to as a service. Koolmill spoke about the advantages of being a new entrant and not having to do a lot of that evolution. But I think what's clear is the demand is there and will only continue to increase, and the opportunity is there for someone to take, right? It's just a matter of who and how.

Curtis Novinger: No, I agree. I think there's another way of going at this. Well, first of all, a lot of the money going into our industry from private equity particularly, is being invested in that aggregate model as opposed to coming up with a unique business strategy, like equipment as a service. And there's still a whole lot of good work to be done there and efficiency and the better training, better safety, there's a whole lot to be done there. So I think that will continue.

If you step back and you ask yourself from a customer's perspective, what conversation do you want to have as a customer when you have a broken system? Do you want to talk about the plumbing? No. Most people don't care about the plumbing. And yet, back to the whole fragmented nature of the industry, most of the people coming to talk to the customer want to tell you all about the experience because they're proud of it. That's what they want to talk about. And so there's this natural disconnect right at that interface between the customer and the technician, between what the customer wants and what the plumber wants to talk about. That's why I think the solution's not going to come from our industry, it'll come from an industry that knows what the customer really wants and what they care about, which is for their air to have cold air.

And it's not even cold air. They don't care about cold air. They care about the conference room being the right temperature for when they have visitors come in or they want their plumbing to work when Aunt Melba comes over and they're having Thanksgiving. So I think, and just to give you a concrete example, about five years or so ago, we had a national program to increase the full service agreement sales at Comfort Systems. We had this major effort. We spent a lot of money, Comfort Systems spent a lot of money training sales staff.

We took a bunch of sales staff that was used to selling preventive maintenance or scheduled maintenance and brought them in and trained them on all these new tools about how to sell full service, which is the first step towards equipment as a service. It was a complete flop. It did not work. And because it was fundamentally a different conversation that had to take place about financial benefit and not taking care of the equipment and just checking off the task list that the manufacturers recommending you do. So how do you make that transition? I don't know. I honestly don't know how do you do it inside the industry for those two reasons.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah. So we definitely don't have time to get into this today, and it may be a bit too deep, but when you were talking about how this may evolve, and you said about how customers don't care, they don't want to hear about the plumbing details, they just want it to work. And how, ultimately, we could find ourselves at a point where it is as a service, it's just, "I need this thing to work. I will pay you to do that. I don't care about any of the details." What I started thinking about is, and this is deep, so bear with me, is how does that compound the challenge we already have getting people into the trades?

Because you're essentially taking a situation where historically, and maybe even currently, you have trades, usually men or women, running these companies that take a lot of pride in what they do, but the less interest the customer has in that trade, and the more it becomes this kind of just high level, no, you just make it work conversation. Does that exacerbate the challenge we already have today to get people in? Because at the end of the day, that work still has to happen. You know what I mean? You can include remote monitoring and even remote resolution and you can modernize it, but there's still going to be a need for a plumber that goes to a building and fixes X, Y, and Z. So, the less interested the customer becomes in the details, does it become harder to get people that want to do this invisible job? You know what I mean?

Curtis Novinger: Yeah. That's such a good question. I love...

Sarah Nicastro: Like I said, we might have to park on it and come back, because we are almost out of time. But that just got me thinking about the path this will all take, and maybe it's worth thinking about and coming back and talking about how do we solve for that, right? What's the answer? I don't know. But it's interesting. And this is how someone with a degree in psychology...

Curtis Novinger: I was going to say, it's a psychological question.

Sarah Nicastro: For sure, for sure.

Curtis Novinger: But there's opportunity there.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah. And it's just something I guess to be aware of. I mean, it's one of those things that we might not be thinking about all of the implications of what I think is a huge opportunity, don't get me wrong. I think as a service is one of the coolest opportunities that exists for companies that are installing and servicing things. Because when it works, it's so mutually beneficial and it's really, really cool to see it come together. But I'm just wondering if, from a marketing perspective, I always say we have a field service branding problem, and will that branding problem be amplified as we get further down this path? So.

Curtis Novinger: I have one comment, it's a psychological comment, so maybe I appreciate. When a plumber arrives on a job site and there's something broken and they're able to fix it, they get an emotional charge. I mean, it is so much fun to be, and I could tell you stories about it, right? So if that system doesn't break, how do you give that same employee that same self-satisfaction? There is no, he's not the superhero coming in to save the day. And I think that's something that should be acknowledged.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. So good food for thought. All right. Okay. So Curtis, we've talked a lot about your viewpoints on the industry and what's happening and what will continue to happen, but if we just look inward for a moment and think about your own experiences, what would you say is the biggest lesson you've learned from being a leader in service?

Curtis Novinger: I think ultimately, and this is my hope, but I think there's some truth here. People genuinely at their core want to help other people. And I saw that with the ice storm. All the people helping each other get trees out of their houses in their front yards. They genuinely want to. And fundamentally, that's what the service industry is all about. It's providing, showing up, and being of service. And if you can, as a leader, maximize the amount of time people can focus on that and minimize the amount of time that they're worried about politics and detail fixing processes, then you'll have a much happier company and much happier customer.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, that's very good advice. I like it. Well, thank you so much for coming on today and sharing your thoughts with us. I appreciate it.

Curtis Novinger: Thank you.

Sarah Nicastro: You can find more by visiting us at futureoffieldservice.com. Make sure you subscribe to the Future of Field Service INSIDER, which will make sure that you get the latest content we've produced, delivered to your inbox every other week. You can also now view the schedule for the 2023 Future of Field Service live tour dates and register for the city nearest you. You can do all of that on the website. The Future of Field Service Podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more at iffs.com. As always, thank you for listening.

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The Significance of Optimizing Spare Parts Management

February 27, 2023 | 5 Mins Read

The Significance of Optimizing Spare Parts Management

By Sarah Nicastro, Creator, Future of Field Service

Supply chain and logistics challenges have been in the news a lot the past three years, and parts availability (or lack thereof) has certainly been a challenge in the service sector. In last week's podcast, I spoke to Ivo Siebers, Senior Vice President of Global Logistics at TK Elevator about how his company has fundamentally changed the way they manage the flow of parts to technicians. Those efforts resulted in huge gains in how frequently technicians had the right part in their trunk (or readily available from the depot).

In manufacturing, supply chain management is complicated by the whims of consumer demand. Field service logistics, on the other hand, is governed by the installed base of equipment in a given industry – that makes it a little easier to predict and manage.

But knowing what equipment is installed where is only part of the challenge of service logistics. It has traditionally been difficult to forecast what parts were going to fail when, and at what locations. New technology is making it easier to analyze maintenance histories, spare parts consumption, and other data to make those predictions even more accurate. Real-time operational data can add another layer of reliability.

At TK Elevator, technicians service a wide range of elevators and escalator systems, and having the right parts on hand for a given job was a huge challenge. According to Ivo, technicians generally only had the right parts in their trunk around 10% of the time and were able to obtain them from the depot same-day for another 10% of jobs. Most of the time, they had to order parts and then wait, impacting service level agreement (SLA) compliance, first-time fix rates, and customer satisfaction.

Data-Led Approach Drastically Improves Parts Availability

Using data and analytics, the company has been able to make impressive improvements in spare parts availability. Right now, Ivo says that technicians have the right parts available 80% of the time. To get there, TK Elevator leveraged different types of data, including parts usage and failure rates. “We want to avoid breakdowns or down time of the equipment,” Ivo said. “We try to better understand our portfolio, we try to better understand each and every type of equipment that is under maintenance with us and try to use this knowledge, this big data, in order to become more predictive.”

One part of their approach has been more intelligent forecasting. The company is using the data it already has on hand about parts consumption, previous maintenance, and condition monitoring, to predict the parts the technicians are most likely going to need in their trunk stock or positioned at regional depots. That data also guides the technicians to pay close attention to certain parts during regular inspections and maintenance, so they can service those parts before a breakdown occurs.

Data analysis has played a big part in TK Elevator’s success in optimizing spare parts, but the other aspect is how the company has changed its approach to storing and delivering inventory. The technicians have access to a digital catalog of roughly 100,000 different parts that can help them accurately identify what they need. With the digital catalog, technicians can send orders directly to a central warehouse to fulfill the request instead of using the local branch office as a sort-of middleman.

“And instead of sending it to the branch as formerly done, the warehouse will send it directly to the technician. That might be a pick point, that might be the car trunk, that might be a PUDO, that might be a location close to his workplace. Wherever it suits, it'll be sent as close as possible to in order to save his travel time,” Ivo told me.

As more data is collected about the systems each technician services on their route, the trunk stock can be replenished and updated proactively, which helps reduce the number of special orders the technician has to make.

Having these capabilities can have a significant effect on SLA compliance and other critical metrics. It has also led TK Elevator to question some of its own biases and old practices when it comes to spare parts inventory. In supply chain management, inventory has been a dirty word since Lean and Just-in-Time practices came to the fore, but cutting inventory can make it hard to meet SLA requirements when you have to wait for parts.

With predictive data about what parts you are likely to need, you can improve service levels without increasing stock or obsolescence.

The key is having the right stock. TK Elevator has already cut its warehouse stock 30% while still improving SLA performance. With input from the field service operation, the ERP system, and other systems, the company has been able to rebalance inventories, so the stock is optimized based on actual utilization.

A misperception that Ivo says the company had to work around was the idea that the technicians and the depot managers would resist the new inventory management approach.

On the technician side, the worry is always that staff will see the new technology as a way to reduce employee workload or headcount. The company also feared that supervisors might feel cut out of the loop since techs could order parts straight from the warehouse.

But Ivo says that the frontline techs quickly saw the value in eliminating the aggravation of showing up on site and then not being able to complete the job because they did not have the parts. With better stocking decisions and more visibility, technicians can do a better job of keeping the customer informed and happy. Supervisors were also happy that they no longer had to manage parts logistics.

“[The technicians] feel really empowered and they took it really [as a] positive. And from the field supervisor's side, they said, "Nobody likes this task, so taking it away from us, it's great." So sometimes you are a victim to your own biases,” Ivo said.

During our conversation, we also covered a lot of ground about employee buy-in, the need for accurate data, and how TK Elevator plans to leverage condition monitoring to do a better job of predicting future part failures. You can listen to the full podcast here to find out more about how predictive inventory management can boost service performance.

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TKElevator’s Path to Predictive Logistics

February 22, 2023 | 27 Mins Read

TKElevator’s Path to Predictive Logistics

Sarah welcomes Ivo Siebers, Sr. Vice President of Global Logistics at TKElevator, to discuss the company’s journey to removing as much uncertainty as possible from its spare parts operations and the impressive results that they’ve achieved.

Sarah Nicastro: Welcome to the Future of Field Service podcast, I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Today we are going to be talking to Ivo Siebers, who is the Senior Vice President of Global Logistics at TKElevator, about the company's path to predictive logistics. Ivo is the senior vice president of Global Logistics at TKElevator, and he and I met at Field Service Europe late last year and had a conversation about the journey the company is on to really modernize and transform its logistics operation, and he is here today to share some of that insight and perspective with you all. So Ivo, thank you so much for being here.

Ivo Siebers: Thank you.

Sarah Nicastro: So before we get into the predictive logistics topic, can you just tell our listeners a little bit about yourself, your role, and maybe just give a brief overview of TK Elevator in case anyone isn't familiar?

Ivo Siebers: Okay. Thank you Sarah. Let me start to introduce myself. I'm 30 years in construction supply industry. I worked in R&D in product management, product line management, branch manager. I was service manager so I occupied a lot of different position in this area. Since more than 20 years, I'm IN the elevator industry and since 13 years with TKElevator, formerly known as ThyssenKrupp Elevator.

So TKElevator is an elevator and escalator company. We are producing elevators and escalators and we also offer after-sales services. My current position within TKE is I'm head of global logistics and this means I'm responsible for the service supply chain or to be a little bit more concrete, the spare parts business around the world.

Sarah Nicastro: Which you described to me when we spoke is, the overall goal of the journey is really taking something very unpredictable and making it predictable. So when we think about logistics and spare parts and supply chain, particularly over the last few years, right, it's been very unpredictable. So to really accomplish that objective, to put as much predictability into this ecosystem as possible, what does that mean in terms of some of the ways that TKE needs to modernize? So what is the importance of embarking on this journey and looking to reduce as much as you can of that unpredictability?

Ivo Siebers: Well, that's a very broad question. So my understanding of our business and here I'm concentrating mainly on the after-sales part, which is about 50% of our revenue stream, we have a common interest with our customer, which is we want to avoid breakdowns or down times of the equipment that are under our maintenance. And everything unpredicted means there is a breakdown, there is something where we have to react instead of act and that has the potential of increasing the number of breakdowns but also the time that the breakdown takes to be fixed.

I think it's in the utmost interest of everybody that we reduce that to the minimum. To doing so, we must understand better the systematics patterns, how it occurs, and that's exactly what we try to do. We try to better understand our portfolio, we try to understand better each and every type of equipment that is under maintenance with us and try to use this knowledge, this big data, to make predictions in order to avoid that.

Sarah Nicastro: Okay, that makes sense. What it makes me think about, Ivo, is when we think about the overall landscape of logistics and particularly spare parts, inventory and things like that, over the last couple of years there's been a ton of headlines about the volatility and having trouble getting inventory in certain places or having delays in getting things that you need, et cetera.

What you are saying, what it makes me think about is any company cannot remove all unpredictability, but you can focus on, internally. So this is kind of what I think you're saying, is there might be things outside of TKE that you can't control, but the focus is to make sure that your own operations, you are looking at how to remove as much of that unpredictability as possible. Does that make sense?

Ivo Siebers: It makes sense, but I would phrase it a little bit broader, and we had the experience of the last two and a half, three years with a lot of interruptions of the supply chains globally. And it's more, as you know, what you will need in the future that better you can tackle that by building up stocks upfront by being the first of ordering critical stocks and by rebalancing the stocks around your own network where it's really needed.

Sarah Nicastro: So basically, having visibility into what you have currently, having the intelligence based on that visibility into what you will need allows you to do more forward-thinking, forecasting and planning so that you get ahead of some of the external challenges. Is that what you're saying?

Ivo Siebers: Exactly. What I'm saying is I think when we are talking about prediction, we are usually talking about digitization, about condition monitoring, so trying to figure out when which equipment breaks and try to avoid that. What we are doing, it's a little bit the opposite. What we are doing is we are using all the data points that we have anyway, so we are using the data points of the consumption of material, of the equipment in order to predict for the future what is needed and put it into the cars of the technicians upfront and direct them also beforehand to take a closer look into certain components before they break.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, okay, that makes sense. So let's kind of rewind a step and talk about the environment that you've moved away from. So if we think about what the before looked like versus the ideal state that you're working toward, what were some of the biggest challenges, and I guess the indicators that you needed to modernize and take a different approach?

Ivo Siebers: I think before we can discuss that, I have to give you a short journey how the typical workplace of the technician with TKE, a service technician of TKE, looks like. So usually, each technician maintains the number of equipment over a longer period of time, so we are talking about years. TKE is a multi-brand service company, so we are servicing not only the equipment that we produce ourselves, but also equipment from our competition. So we are maintaining each and every brand, which makes it even more complex.

But in essence, the technician has a number of equipment that he maintains that he's responsible for. Most of the technicians go to the sites by car when they're doing maintenance and they try to fix everything that they can during their regular maintenance visits. Nevertheless, there are incidents, there are call-outs where the system breaks down. And when he goes there, often he can only fix it with the help of exchanging spare parts. That makes a huge difference, whether his car is equipped already with the right equipment, or whether he has to order it and come back to fix it.

So typically, how the process works is if the technician sees that something is broken or will break, he will try to identify the part and get the part ordered and collects it somewhere, and brings it back to site and fixes it. That is the normal procedure. What we are trying to imply with the system or what we try to do with our system is to bring the parts already to the technician before he needs it, so that he do not have to order it. He has it in his car already, he consumes it, and he can fix the elevator in one stop.

Sarah Nicastro: Okay. So this is a journey that you are still in the midst of. Can you talk a little bit about where you've gotten to today and then what the complete ideal state looks like, so where you're ultimately heading?

Ivo Siebers: When you look at TKE, TKE is built up of a lot of different country organizations with different setups, and what we have done is we defined target states that fits for all that can be applied to each and every country organizations of ourselves. But obviously, we couldn't roll it out in one big leap, but we tested and piloted it in different countries and we are now in the rollout state, country by country.

So the current status is that we have rolled it out already in some countries, and there, we have the feedback of the improvements so we can prove what you can gain from implementing it, and we're currently rolling it out further to other countries.

Sarah Nicastro: So just to understand a little bit more, if you go back to the initial process, so you mentioned that the technician would need to identify what part is needed, order the part, pick up the part somewhere and then go and make the repair. Are they determining what's needed with a visit on-site?

Ivo Siebers: That's the normal process. Yeah, it could be during a regular maintenance visit, so they do maintenance and see that a part could break and they order the part before it breaks. Or it's really a call-out where the elevator is already, where the part is already broke, where failure happens, and then he's going out not really knowing what to fix, identifies the root cause for the failure, identifies whether you need a part, identifies the part, orders the part and comes back when the part is arriving to him.

Sarah Nicastro: And in that situation, I don't know if you know this, but how often, percentage-wise, do you think they had the part needed versus needing to order it?

Ivo Siebers: Before or after?

Sarah Nicastro: Before.

Ivo Siebers: Before we started the initiative, and we call it spare part business excellence, so that's the overall name that we are running it under, we had an investigation in two bigger established service countries, country organizations. And we figured out that in the car, the technician, in 10% of our cases, the technician can find the part he needs for a fix, then he would think, "Okay, we have branch around the country, "so you would find it in the branch inventories, but that only fixed it within 20% of our cases. With the new system, we are now at 80%, so it's a magnitude.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, absolutely. So 80% before they had to order that part, and now 80% of the time they have the part. Okay?

Ivo Siebers: Correct.

Sarah Nicastro: But just going back to the process itself, if I remember this correctly from our initial conversation, the other change is that before, when they would order that part, they then had to pick it up from the branch location. And now, rather than going through that longer process of identifying, ordering, waiting, picking up, going back, you are looking to forecast what will be needed, have it in advance, and proactively stock into their vehicles so that they have those things that first visit. Correct?

Ivo Siebers: Correct. So let me explain the entire process, how it's designed. So we really tried to get a seamless digital solution end-to-end, from the technician to the technician. It starts with a technician who is onsite, who needs a part. He has a catalog, a digital catalog in which he can identify the parts. That's extremely important for us because we have a variety of approximately 100,000 different parts, or per country organization maybe 20 or 30,000 different parts that might be broken.

So it's important to give him a good tool in the sense that he can do an accurate identification, meaning he can identify the article number. With that, he can then set a request to a central warehouse which fulfills the request. And instead of sending it to the branch as formerly done, they would send it directly to him. That might be a pick point, that might be the car trunk, that might be a PUDO, that might be a location close to his workplace. Wherever it suits, it'll be sent as close as possible to him in order to save his travel time.

Further on, we are using the data of consumption of his route and also routes around in order to understand which equipment has which need at what time for spare parts, and try to configure his car stock in the way that it fits best to his specific route, so to the elevators that he maintains regularly. That is a kick that allows us to go away from this one-to-one order and fulfillment to replenishment, replenishing of his car and then reduce the orders that he has to place to a minimum.

Sarah Nicastro: That makes sense. So going back to thinking about the progress that you've made and the benefits of doing this from the before to today. So just to clarify for listeners, we said that before 10% of the time he had the part needed another 10% of the time, so 20% of the time he could find the part nearby and get it from one of the local branches, 80% of the time he had to order, wait, pick up and go back. Okay?

Now in the updated system, 80% of the time he already has the part he needs, and the other 20% is fulfilling that request. Let me also ask though, with the change in how those orders are fulfilled, how much faster does the technician get the part needed when he does need to place an order? So I'm just thinking about the difference between ordering, it goes to the branch, picking up, versus it going directly to the technician.

Ivo Siebers: Yes, it's a full digital process. Each request that the technician sets to the central warehouse is immediately in the warehouse, and there's a cutoff time in the afternoon until if he places the request until then, he will have it in his car or at his pick-up point early in the morning, before he starts, so that's what we are fulfilling today.

Sarah Nicastro: Okay.

Ivo Siebers: Obviously, there are exceptions of where you need the part immediately, let's say an elevator who is going directly into an emergency room in a hospital. There, we would find a solution to bring it directly there and install it during nighttime, if necessary, but that are really exceptions.

Sarah Nicastro: So it's less than 24 hours from the time that the technician submits the request until they have the part in their hands, for the most part.

Ivo Siebers: Actually, we designed three types of service level and the technician can choose from them. One is next morning, one is immediately, and one is planned, then he gets the part when he wants the part to have, because it doesn't make sense to bring out the parts to him if he needs it only next month.

Sarah Nicastro: Right, okay. That makes sense. So the other question, I'm just thinking about how to phrase this in a way that is clear, so bear with me. The other question I have is thinking about the predictability of parts, and so how much you've been able to evolve to using all of the data that you have access to on usage, typical product-related insights on the average duration of how long a certain part lasts, et cetera, plus the technician's individual portfolio of what they're servicing.

How much have you been able to move to this world of looking ahead and planning in advance? So what I'm thinking is yes, you still have this 20% of time that they're ordering a part, 80% of the time they already have it in their car. But overall, if you think about how you're getting ahead of, like we talked about at the beginning, what you need to order from different suppliers and doing that in a way that allows you to meet those SLAs, right?

I mean, the only way it's possible to meet those three SLAs you spoke about is if you are already doing a good job of stocking parts in your distribution centers, because otherwise, you would be running into situations where the next morning isn't happening because you're not doing a good job of evaluating the demand you need for parts to have them already available in the distribution centers.

So how has that process changed in terms of the forecasting and planning so that you are kind of getting ahead of the curve to make sure you're doing a good job of stocking things at these distribution centers to make this possible on the sort of last mile?

Ivo Siebers: That's actually a very good question. Actually, we learned ourselves a lot during this process, during our first piloting phase. And one of the things that we learned was that all the biases that we had about our business being already quite okay or quite optimized were totally wrong. So as I said, 10% of everybody, the former procedure was that the technician together with his field supervisor determined what parts he puts into his car. Everybody was thinking as they are so close to the customer, so close to the equipment, that they know what they're doing. But they are no specialists and they do seldom really put a lot of time into it. So this bias, we broke through, and it actually showed how seldom really they got a hit.

The second bias is that you need more stocks in order to increase your service level and what we are seeing now is that we have already reduced at the warehouse 30% of our Stocks. And if we can trust the predictions, we can go another 50% down with higher SLAs than before. So there's the takeaways, there's a lot of unused stock lying around that is there because we don't know what stock we need in which location. And what we are doing, we have a quite well-working inventory planning system that is fed by different systems, our ERP system, our field operation system. It has some preconditions set in into, and this plans each and every location instantaneously. So it plans which part should be positioned best in which location, and by that, you can optimize extremely well your inventory.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, that's really interesting because we talk a lot about this idea that in the last, let's say, 10 years, we've talked so much about how important... Data, data, data, the importance of data. Right? But now, we talk about the fact that data in and of itself really doesn't do much, right? It's the intelligence you're able to turn it into that is impactful. And a lot of companies struggle with that, especially the more data they have, the harder it is to identify what data is useful.

And this is a really good example of taking data from, like you said, different systems, consolidating it, and gleaning that insight from it that is helping you make a significant impact on the business, both in fulfilling those spare part SLAs for the technicians, which is helping them to improve first-time fix and mean time to repair, I mean I have to assume.

And then also, reducing the inventory stock that you have while improving the inventory availability that the technicians have of what they need, when they need it. So it's a really good case study in terms of taking a bunch of data that's being gathered from all of these different places, and making a really good use of that data converting it into intelligence that's helping you make really specific positive impact on the business.

Ivo Siebers: Let me answer with my takeaways from my experiences here. I think we have a lot of data already in our companies and we talk about data, not information. So data in the company are of different qualities, that was also something we learned. And I think you can't make compromises in the quality of the data, that is already one of the big hurdles in order to realize something as we have done it.

So you have to be extremely strict, garbage in, garbage out. You have to be strict at the point of entrance that you get correct data in the system. And think about, we have 25,000 technicians, 25,000 technicians have to be disciplined, trained to do it correctly. It's not an easy task, it's really not an easy task. They have never done it, they are not IT specialists, but you rely on the quality of their input. And that makes it so difficult to implement.

Yes, I think we have a lot of data but of different qualities. So first you must ask yourself, "Is what I'm seeing really what is a representation of the reality, or is this corrupt?" And then you have to clean it up. A big hurdle, really one of the very big hurdles. Then the second thing is you have to make sure that if you design an end-to-end process, you must be aware that you are crossing border lines between different functional silos.

And usually, at the end of each silo, things fall down and at the beginning of the next silo, they are picked up and worked on again. And that, you have to avoid. So you really have to design a process that seamlessly works end-to-end, and where everybody relies on the quality of the work that has been done before. And this is also not in our genes, so this trust is also not in our genes. So it's a huge transformation process to design such a system in an existing elevator company.

Sarah Nicastro: Those are excellent points, and I think that the point about data cannot be overemphasized. I think that that's something that a lot of organizations, when they embark on a journey like this, they don't account for enough time, they don't understand what the work might look like. To your point, when you talked about the biases earlier, they may overestimate the quality of the data they have and then not be prepared to face the reality of what it actually is. And so then, companies can get really frustrated but there's no way to avoid that bulk of work if the goal is to achieve these outcomes.

And I think the point you made about this end-to-end process is something that in service is increasingly important, because we see more and more sort of focus on the overall customer experience or customer journey, which means that internally we have to look at more of those end-to-end systems and processes. We can't be good in one silo, poor in another, and expect the overall experience to be a positive one. And so this idea of going through that change, of those functions really working together and being able to depend on one another is a really important point as well.

Ivo Siebers: And it also, I think it's as a side effect that we see, you not only increase the competency on all levels about digitalization or you make it to something that they start believing in, but also it's something about the self-esteem going into the next project. If you have such an experience done already, you are open for the next one.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, absolutely. There was a podcast that I had early on when we started doing these, and it was a gentleman named Greg Lush. And he spoke about this concept of digital reputation and this idea of how important that digital reputation is when you have any sort of digital transformation initiative within the business. When you don't handle it well, the ripple effect that causes in the distrust your employees have of your ability to execute change makes everyone after that much harder.

And on the flip side, when you do this hard work that you're speaking of, you really confront those biases, you do the hard work of the data integrity and getting everything the way it should be, you really work on breaking down those silos and getting everyone to work together, the outcome of that is not only visible in the amazing results you've achieved of really flipping from 80% unavailability to 80% availability, but also in how your employees feel about your ability as a company to introduce tools and change that actually help them. Because to your point, when it's time for the next thing, they have a trust and a belief in what TKE can do that makes them a lot more open minded, and makes that next change just a little bit easier to accomplish.

Ivo Siebers: That's another point that I think is important. When we talk about digitalization, often it's connected to job reduction, cutting down costs and so on. And I would like to give it a little bit different perspective. So as you see with the examples that I made, it's not really, we are still growing, so what we achieve with the efficiency gains we are putting into more workload for the people. So we use the time with the same people, we are not reducing headcounts there.

In addition, I think we should have to look a little bit ahead we have some baby boomer generation which goes out of business during the next years. Everybody is talking about lack of talent, especially for the technical jobs. Here's a possibility, digitalization gives us a possibility not only to fill in the gap, but also, and we have to do it now, to codify the knowledge of the people who are going. And I think that are also two aspects that we have to think when we talk about digitalization that are important.

Sarah Nicastro: Absolutely. Yeah, I think that's a great point. It's about working smarter, right? I think with the point you made about the talent gap and all of the struggles, companies across the world are having to bring people into these roles at the pace they need to. Technicians should not be concerned for their jobs, that's not what this is about. It's about efficiency for the sake of not wasting people's time and not just burning through money just unnecessarily and not delivering the customer experience that you are quite capable of delivering if you just use these tools.

That's what it's about, it's not about getting rid of anyone. It's just about working smarter and allowing you then to serve more need with either the same amount of people or being able to grow and expand with the same amount of people. So I think there's this unnecessary fear of, "Automation is here to take my job." It's an often an outdated perception. I think it's really, there's plenty of work to go around, it's just about doing it in a way that is smart and allows them to shine in a way.

Instead of showing up and assessing the situation and saying, "Okay, customer, now I need to order this part, wait for it to come in, pick it up, I'll be back in however long," they're showing up, and 80% of the time they're getting the job done and they're fixing what needs to be fixed and they're achieving that higher customer satisfaction. I mean, that has to make them feel better about what they're doing day to day. So there's a lot of really positive points that come out of this for the technician itself as well.

Sorry, I was just going to say one last thing, which is I think when digital transformation is done well, what's really interesting is it's mutually beneficial to the customer, the company, and the frontline worker. There's things to gain for all of those stakeholders. It's just a matter of making sure you're looking at that change from the context of how it benefits all parties, not just one party.

Ivo Siebers: I just wanted to expand and give an example for something which hit us unexpectedly. When we first discussed this quite broad new concept, there were a lot of discussions about, "Oh, we are giving the technician quite a bit of authority. He's ordering the parts, he's warehousing, in a way, his car, he's consuming the parts, he's receiving the parts and all these data points he has to do accurately. So we are expanding his area of responsibility quite a bit." And we thought, "Okay, then we go into discussions about increasing salary. Will he ask for more? Will he accept this responsibility? Will he fill his car unnecessarily with material because he can now?" That was one of the questions.

Another question was if we are cutting out the branch out of the entire process, because it's an end-to-end process between the central organization that warehouses the parts and the technician and nobody is anymore in between. We thought that the field supervisor who formerly did all this work would protest because they can't see any more really what his technician is doing when he's doing repairs. And we did a pilot in Brazil. Brazil is a big and very experienced service organization for TKE, and we did a pilot there. And guess what? It was exactly the opposite.

So we started the program and I talked myself with quite a few of the technicians and they said, "Great that somebody is doing it. We always have to telephone for the parts, we're in the front of the customer and we have to rectify this part not coming. Now we are in the driver's seat and we know when the part is coming, we can directly give the information to the customer." So they feel really empowered and they took it really positive. And from the field supervisor side, also the opposite, they said, "Nobody likes this task, so taking it away from us, it's great." So sometimes you are a victim to your own biases, when you discuss things.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, that's a great point. And I think you want that frontline worker to be someone who is capable of portraying your brand really well with customers. And if you just think about, as human beings, are they better equipped to do that when they're this resource that the company feels it needs to micromanage, it always has to be watching, it's questioning what they do, versus this resource that's empowered and trusted?

I'm sure there's always anomalies. Maybe you'll come into a situation where there is this one individual employee that doesn't handle that responsibility well, but generally speaking, I think that employee feels more valued and more appreciated because they are in the driver's seat and that is reflected in how they interact with customers then. I mean, there's just a real difference of someone, I think the energy they have showing up to a customer site when they have this feeling of being trusted and being empowered. I just think that's a different energy that they'll give off to the customers they're interacting with. So I think that's a really good point, a lot of good lessons learned.

Ivo Siebers: Actually, want to add, where we put a lot of emphasis on and put also a lot of time into was to think about each and every stakeholder. So first of all, the technician, if he don't likes it, he will give corrupt data. You can't run such a system without the help of the technician and full acceptance of him. So what really is in for him?

So really sitting down, building a pitch for him, really trying to address all the uncertainties, but also what is in for him, and really get a good pitch together for him and for the branch, for the field supervisor, for the warehouse. So for all different stakeholders to understand really what drives them and what can you achieve for them. This is really an important step that we took and it proved to be extremely important,

Sarah Nicastro: I think it's such an important step, because a lot of times, companies either, they go out communicating the benefit of the change to the company, which some people are going to care about but a lot aren't. And then other times, they come up with this generic why, right? Something that's just, "Well, you should care because X," without really, what you're talking about is personalizing that change management message for every role that the solution will impact.

And that's when taking the time to put yourself in their shoes and think about what does it really mean for them, I think is such an important aspect of managing change well. Because number one, it shows them you took the time to understand them as an individual function instead of just throwing out this, "Here's why we're doing this and you should comply." I always say there's a difference between commitment and compliance, and that difference a lot of times is how well you manage that change.

You don't want employees that are just complying, because at some point, the pressure will be off to comply and then they might not care if they put in the data the right way or they do the steps they need to do. You want them to be committed to the new process because they see the value in it. And then, that's when you have technicians that are always following what they need to do or using the tool the way it's intended to be used because they want to. That should be the goal, not just force or getting them to do what you're saying to do just because, so I think that's a really good point.

Ivo Siebers: And I think you also have to, during the implementation process and afterwards, you really have to give them a word. So you have to go there and really ask them honestly about the experience and take it with you. You might not change everything that they want to be changed, but at least you have to take it seriously and answer it. And the good thing with technicians is, at least with the technicians I met during that, is that they usually are quite honest. They are seeing everything from their own perspective, that's clear, but usually, once you have some warm-up behind you, then you get quite qualified answers to questions.

Sarah Nicastro: And if you're open to really listening in that implementation phase, you may pick up on some points that make a significant difference in how the solution is adopted in the wider rollout. Right? I mean, to your point, not every piece of feedback will be relevant or addressable, but there may be some that if you are listening or points that you hadn't considered or will make the end product a lot better.

This is, again, where I think some of the aspects of change management that are tough are coming back to, "Are you willing to put the time in, to personalize the message, to actually listen?" Employees are smart enough to know, "Are you asking me my feedback just because you're trying to pacify me and make me feel like you care enough to listen, or are you asking me because you genuinely care and if I have something important to say, you may actually take action on it?" I think people can tell the difference, and if you are willing to really listen, there could be some very helpful things that come out of that, so that's a good point.

So Ivo, last question is really just around, you've made significant progress here, but if you think about the future, I'm talking three to five years from now, something like that, and you think about what else may change in the logistics landscape, what do you see coming along? What further refinements or changes, what do you think will be sort of the next version of the ideal state that you're working toward?

Ivo Siebers: I think in the nearer future we are planning to do something quite obvious, actually, we are working already on it. So the system that we are using at the moment is working with data from the past, so we are using consumption data plus something else, mix it together, do some big data analytics and then come out with a prediction. But in essence, we are looking back to predict the future.

The next step will be, you might have heard about our condition monitoring system, we call it Max, and Max is throwing out condition monitoring data and we are working on algorithms that give us hints of future events, future failures. And obviously, that would be helpful for us to integrate that also into our prediction methods, so that we not only look to the past but also into the future where the condition monitoring, that's, I think, the nearer future that we are working on at the moment for the concept.

Obviously, as byproduct of everything we are doing, we get a lot of data and a lot of insights about equipment, about failure, pattern of equipment. And when you think that further ahead, it'll give you also very good ideas for the route planning, for time, assumptions for certain tasks. You might vary your work plan depending on the necessities of the equipment because of your experiences on that, you might have different contract models for different equipment. I can see a lot of use cases for those data.

What you also can do is you can use the data in order to re-engineer or synthesize some sort of service problem. So as you know what was consumed, you could also take a bunch of the consumed parts and say, "Okay, this is the equipment I'm maintaining," without really looking into it. This is also important for old equipment, where you might not have the data available. So there are a lot of things that I can see in the future, without talking about 3D printing and about picture recognition and about artificial realities and so on.

I think one point I see definitely for the future too is, as I said, we are looking into the future where talents are scarce and where a lot of knowledge get lost, where a huge amount of people will go out of business. So I think we have to find ways now to conserve this knowledge, and digitalization, digital tools, virtual reality gives us also a huge opportunity to do so and we should start using it.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, very good points. Well, I mean, kudos to you for everything you've accomplished so far. It's really impressive to hear how far you've come from the before to today, and then to also think about some of the ways you can continue to refine what you're doing to make further improvements, so I really appreciate you coming and sharing and it was a great conversation.

Ivo Siebers: Thank you for having me.

Sarah Nicastro: Absolutely. You can find more by visiting us at futureoffieldservice.com. Be sure to register for the Future of Field Service INSIDER, which will deliver our most recent content to your inbox every two weeks. Also, take a look at the schedule for the 2023 Future of Field Service Live Tour. We are visiting six countries this year. The events are free to attend, so be sure to register for the location nearest you. You can find all of that on the website. The Future of Field Service Podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more at ifs.com. As always, thank you for listening.

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**You Encounter Resistance to Change, But Do You Understand It?**

February 20, 2023 | 4 Mins Read

**You Encounter Resistance to Change, But Do You Understand It?**

By Sarah Nicastro, Creator, Future of Field Service

A few weeks ago I spoke to Adam Gloss at McKinstry about the role leaders play in service transformation, and how such an important part of that role is in getting buy-in from team members during what can be pretty tumultuous shifts in how service organizations do business. On last week’s podcast, we had to opportunity to dive a bit deeper into the art of just how leaders manage change – even those that are pretty resistant.

To find out more about some of the science behind managing change, I talked to Dr. Elizabeth Moran, the former Vice President of Global Talent Development at ADP. A clinical psychologist by training, Elizabeth serves as a consultant and executive coach who works with teams from new start-ups to Fortune 500 companies. She also recently published a book, FORWARD: Leading Your Team Through Change, that provides strategies for navigating change based on neuroscience principles.

As she points out in our conversation, the “people management" aspects of change often take a back seat to the project management component, which can create friction and even undermine the long-term success of a project. Change seems constant and accelerating at most companies, particularly when it comes to digital transformation and the rapid evolution of technology. It can be hard to keep up, and overwhelming to both team members and leaders alike

This is where her neuroscience approach provides some very helpful guidance, because while we may think we are managing people and projects based on objective data and business goals, our brains (and co-workers’ brains) are reacting in ways that are not necessarily rational or readily apparent. Elizabeth outlines five neuroscience concepts that, when leaders understand and accommodate, can help make these transitions easier and, in turn, make change leadership more successful.

The first is the threat of uncertainty. When people are uncertain, they get anxious. That ties into the second concept, negativity bias. Our brains are wired to expect the worst when we don't know what's going to happen next. For leaders, the key is to address that uncertainty (let team members ask questions and give them as much information as possible about what the change means for them), and then try to move them back toward a neutral or positive position.

“We started with uncertainty. Now, we're automatically tilted to what's going to go wrong. That's just a way that we are always hardwired to protect ourselves," Elizabeth says. “So, [that is] why it's so important to not only think about what could go wrong in a change and allow your people to talk about it. It's also important to basically think about, ‘Well, what could go right?’"

The third concept is the switch-cost effect – basically, team members may think the personal cost of change (in learning new technology or processes) is higher than they are willing to pay. How do you deal with this as a manager? Make sure you help people understand what they are being rewarded for, and that they won't be penalized for the extra time (or increased errors) associated with learning a new system. “In this case, what we're looking for is not perfection in somebody doing a task or doing it the exact same way we've done. We're going to reward people for trying something new. And that's a way you can counteract the switch-cost effect," Elizabeth shares.

Balancing Analytic and Empathetic Skills

Elizabeth also explains the difference between the analytic and empathetic networks in our brains. The analytic network is the project management system in our heads that can analyze data and establish schedules. The empathetic network, on the other hand, takes a wider view of things and helps us tune into the verbal and non-verbal cues our colleagues are giving us. “The kicker is when one of those is active, it suppresses the other," she says. “And so hence, when we're very focused on a project in getting something done, we are not able to attend to the human side of change, which is why the best leaders who do this really almost have to specifically imagine they're putting a different hat on."

Finally, the fifth concept is the value of optimism and positivity. This is critical for counteracting the negativity bias mentioned earlier. A good leader helps the team imagine positive outcomes and provides feedback on incremental successes. In scenarios, which have become more and more common, of change fatigue, understanding and embracing the value of optimism is especially important.

All five of these concepts really point to the critical role of communication in change management. That's more than just announcing a change. Leaders also must be prepared to answer tough questions, reassure team members about how the change will affect them, and admit when they don't have the answers. Using the neuroscience perspective, leaders can better understand that there is always going to be resistance, but that resistance is not a permanent state; providing the right information, feedback, and support helps employees shift their mindset. As Elizabeth puts it, “Resistance is simply concerns that haven't yet been addressed."

Our conversation covered a lot of great tips for managers that are trying to find a better way to address change fatigue and resistance, and the entire episode is well worth a listen! You can find the full podcast here to hear more about these fascinating neuroscience concepts, and how understanding them can help field service leaders be more successful in supporting their teams.

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The Neuroscience of Leading Through Change

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The Neuroscience of Leading Through Change

Sarah welcomes Dr. Elizabeth Moran, former VP of Global Talent Development at ADP who now works as a consultant and executive coach and is passionate about helping teams and organizations successfully navigate and evolve through change using a neuro-transformational approach. She gives an inside look into her new book, Forward: Leading Your Team Through Change, and offers honest advice for change management success.

Sarah Nicastro: Welcome to the Future of Field Service podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Today, we're going to have a very interesting conversation about the neuroscience of leading through change. If you've been following the podcast or our website content for long, you know that change management is one of the biggest topics we discussed because it is one of the biggest challenges that you all have. So, we're going to have a great conversation about that today. I am thrilled to be joined by Dr. Elizabeth Moran, who is formerly the Vice President of Global Talent Development at ADP. She's an experienced leader, consultant, and executive coach, passionate about helping teams and organizations successfully navigate through change with her organization, Elizabeth Moran Transformation.

Dr. Moran partners with Fortune 500 companies all the way to technology startups and works to support everything from large scale to small scale transformations. She holds a master's and doctoral degree in clinical psychology from the California Institute of Integral Studies, a PCC level coaching certification from the International Coaching Federation, and a certification as a neuro-transformational coach. Ooh. She's also the author of the upcoming release or maybe brand-new release, Forward: Leading Your Team Through Change. Oh, that was a mouthful. Thank you for bearing with me. Moran. Got it. And if it's okay, I'll switch to Elizabeth. Is that okay? Okay, perfect. Okay. Elizabeth, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. That was a lot to cover, but obviously, you came to my attention through your brand-new book, which is really exciting. But then in looking at your bio, you have a lot of experience with very relevant organizations, some of which I'm sure are listeners of the podcast.

So, that's very exciting. We're talking about change management today and how leaders tackle that, "What do we need to do to equip leaders to successfully manage change?" I think there was a time where change management as a topic was almost like a project. You have a project. If you understand the importance, you have a change management process with that project, and then you move on. Today, it feels a lot more like an ongoing necessity. What are your thoughts on that first?

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: I think you touched on two important things that people are noticing more and more about. One is that when you think about change management ... I say change leadership. I couldn't care less which you use. There's two pieces to that. You highlighted the one, which is super important, is being able to manage the project aspects of a change. But then there's managing the people aspects of the change. And so those are two different things. And oftentimes, people focus on the project aspects, rightly so, at the expense of, Well, are people getting it? Are we setting them up for success, including leaders?" And so when you think about that, that's important.

The second piece that you mentioned is it's constant ongoing change, not only multiple changes, but so many changes are years. They continue. They're rolling. And so leaders are faced with a change that changes and changes again. Actually, there's a quote in there from Ashley who is a service leader in the book, who was saying, "Yes, that's exactly what we're saying, 'Hey, thanks for this change, but just so you know, this change is going to be changing, and then we'll change it again.'" And we all laughed. But it was true.

Sarah Nicastro: That's exactly what I mean. When I started in this space, it was 15 years ago. Yes, there was change, but it was a more static landscape compared to where we are today. You know what I mean? And so if there was change, it was done, it was stable for a time, and then you moved on to something else. Today, the hits, they keep coming. Right? If it isn't one thing, it's another thing. It's this thing. And now, this thing we just changed is changing again. And then it's just that we live in a very real time, constant flow of information, constant flow of needing to react, et cetera. So, there's this, I think, increased intensity around it and also amplified need for leaders to really get a grasp on the people part of that change leadership.

So, the volume and the intensity has sped up. I think leaders are reacting in a variety of ways. Some maybe intuitively are better at it than others. Some are really struggling, but we need to make sure that we're equipping people to navigate this because it's not going away. That intensity is likely here to stay. Here's where I want to start, and then I want to get into some of the details. In your book, you are giving five simplified neuroscience concepts that every change leader can and should use to their advantage. Let's use that as a starting point, if you can talk us through those five concepts.

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: The first thing I tried to do with the book is to understand that everybody is overwhelmed. And so it was very important to me to provide something where it wasn't just, "Hey, here's the concept, one, two. Here are some things you can do, which is why I call it a playbook. So, here are some steps." And then number three, which to me was often missing, is, "Here are the words you can say. You have to have a difficult conversation with somebody that you think might be resisting. Here's how you approach that. Or when you announce a change or you're going to have to talk to your team, here are most likely the common tough questions you're going to get. And here are ways to answer it." First of all, even when I think about the neuroscience concept, they are five concepts with the caveat that, look, we are learning so much all the time, everything changes. But I tried to give a simple overview. And then, "So what? What does this mean for you?" I'm going to look at the book to make sure I capture all five. The first one was what we call the threat of uncertainty. And that ultimately is what the change leaders, themselves, are experiencing as much as people are.

Our brains hate uncertainty more than anything. And so the goal is, if we know this about ourselves, "How do leaders create ... " When I say certainty, I don't mean that that means that they know everything. But that means two things. One is when people are already in uncertainty, they think the next thing that is going to happen, in other words, what's in the unknown, is going to be bad. So, part of the leader's job is to know that we're already geared towards the negative. So, how do you help people course-correct back to neutral? And there's techniques to do that also for ourselves. That's super important. And then the other thing is when you think about telling your team what's known, it's just as important to say what's unknown because most people are thinking about ... Ultimately, the first question that runs through anybody's mind is, "What does this change mean for me?" And so that's why we talked about it's totally fine to say, "I don't know." And we'll get more into that later.

The second concept is negativity bias. That means we automatically have a brain that's tilted towards looking for that. We started with uncertainty. Now, we're automatically tilted to what's going to go wrong. That's just a way that we are always hardwired to protect ourselves. So, why it's so important to not only think about what could go wrong in a change and allow your people to talk about it. It's also important to basically think about, "Well, what could go right?" The third thing is switch-cost. And many times, I hear from service leaders ... Leaders in general, but service leaders, particularly if they have employees who've been around for a long time, is, "Oh, my gosh. The people, they don't want to change. It's so hard to get people to change." And so this gives leaders an understanding about why. I like to say there's a little geek in your brain that's calculating the cost-benefit analysis for you to make the effort to change. And so a lot of times, we like to stay in the ideation phase, "Ooh, that sounds great. That would be so cool." But actually, when it comes to doing the work ... And I give an example in the book of when I tried to learn a foreign language. Sounded like a great idea when I was living in Italy. My brain was like, "It's not happening."

Didn't matter how kind the Italian people were, wasn't going to happen. The switch-cost was too great. So, then I talk to leaders, "Well, how do you deal with this?" And one way you deal with it is helping people understand what they can get rewarded for. So, in this case, what we're looking for is not perfection in somebody doing a task or doing it the exact same way we've done. We're going to reward people trying something new. And that's a way you can counteract. Do you want to jump in?

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, I was just going to say one thing on that because sometimes, one of the challenges I hear is in that ideation phase ... Let's say digital transformation. We're adopting this new tool, and we're going to do this, so it will improve X, Y, or Z about your Mr. or Mrs. Frontline-Worker, role. "Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Sounds good. Sure, I'll consider that." But then adoption doesn't actually happen. So, there's this initial acceptance when the change management plan is initially rolled out. But then after the implementation of that tool, the leaders really struggle with its use. It's not being used at all. They're just defaulting to the former tool, or it's not being used in its intended manner. So, this switch-cost idea makes a lot of sense because that initial acceptance is sort of this, "Yeah, okay." And then there's this recognition of, "But I'm so comfortable doing this thing. I don't want to actually learn how to do this new thing." I was just kind of putting it in the-

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: Perfect.

Sarah Nicastro: ... context and thinking about how much sense it makes. Okay, sorry.

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: Yes, you're absolutely right. And some of that is needing time, but there are a couple of other things that leaders can do in that case. First of all, is making sure, "Is everybody clear, first of all, of what we're trying to do? Does everybody get it? Fine." The leader can think about and make room for, "Okay, as you adopt this new tool, what concerns you, or what excites you? Also, what might be gained, or what might be lost?" Giving people a chance to say, "I like doing this. I was an expert. I could do my job very easily. And now, depending on what some of those metrics are that people will be measured ... You have to make sure they're not being penalized for taking more time or having to learn a system. So, it's really looking at the whole reward mechanism.

And oftentimes, it's like, "Yeah." And it's the leader simply saying, "You're right, you're right." And just making some room for that, "It's hard to not be the expert anymore, and it is hard to take longer." So, a lot of times, the leaders has to just acknowledge, "Yeah, you're right." And there's not much more to do about that, again, except, "Hey, do you want to walk through this together? Should we try it and see what it's like?" And then giving the person more time and, as we said, trying to reward them and encourage them for struggling as opposed to being perfect.

Sarah Nicastro: Makes sense.

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: Humans, right? This is a thing. We're dealing with humans. Two other things, and they all kind of flow together. Number four is the analytic versus empathetic networks in our brain. This was a huge light bulb going off for me, and it gets to the heart of what you're talking about, the project versus the people aspects of the change. The analytic network is those groups of systems in our brains that are responsible for analyzing data, looking at timeframes, putting specific actions together, getting things done. It's planning. It's all of that stuff. Most organizations reward for analytic network activity a lot. The other part is the empathetic network in our brains. Two major functions here. One is it allows people to almost pull back out of the details and see the larger, broader picture, which is a lot where you can see patterns. It's where innovation comes from, the ability to pull out and think about doing things in new ways. The other thing is it enables us to be tuned into the verbal and non-verbal cues of people. The kicker is when one of those is active, it suppresses the other. And so hence, when we're very focused on a project in getting something done, we are not able to attend to the human side of change, which why the best leaders who do this really almost have to specifically imagine they're putting a different hat on, and they have different questions.

Even in groups when we were meeting, doing training around this, and we were having leaders, service leaders in particular, practice, we would assign, "Okay, your job in this conversation is simply to wear the people-hat. You put yourself in the role of people. What are you thinking and feeling?" And they felt permission to do that while everybody else was focused on getting it done. That's really critical. And then the fifth is optimism. And I hope this makes people feel good. For me, earlier in my career, I used to sort of roll my eyes at optimism or positivity because it just didn't seem serious. Now that I'm a complete nerd when it comes to brain science, it's, again, helped me so much appreciate that, again, we went back to ... Because our brains are tilted towards the negative, actually, some say we give three times more psychological weight to the negative than the positive. Again, you can understand our bodies are trying to keep us safe. But when it comes to constant news and things that make us feel very anxious, unless we specifically try to scan for the good, we are always going to fall behind.

In this case, practicing optimism would be getting your team together and imagining a positive future, imagining a positive outcome, really taking some time to think about what's happening, what could be really beneficial for clients even in the short run, if we're struggling. It also is taking time to celebrate that movement towards adoption. Even if it's like, "Oh my gosh, I did this. It was the complete failure" It's still, "Congratulations. What can we learn from that? I so appreciate you making the effort. It's wonderful. What can we learn from this?" And then it's also celebrating more of the traditional successes. I'll stop there.

Sarah Nicastro: That makes sense. I'm looking at our outline and thinking we don't have enough time because I have so many extra questions. But I was thinking when you were talking about the analytic versus the empathetic ... I'm sure part of it is putting on those different hats, but I have to assume also people are geared in one or the other. And so I think I was just thinking about ... Clearly, I would be on the empathetic side, but that's not for this conversation. But I think on the flip side, there's a lot of leaders who aren't, and that's tough. And knowing that the people part is tougher than the process part, then it kind of exacerbates the challenges. The other thing I was thinking about when you were talking about optimism is you're working toward whatever this that outcome is. But we tend to focus so much on the end goal that we don't look for those positives all along the way. I'm just thinking about ... Going back to ... The second point was around ... Remind me. The second point was around?

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: Negativity bias.

Sarah Nicastro: Yes. Or maybe it was when we were talking about the switch-cost. But you said that you might not change anything, but that person just wants to be acknowledged. And so this is where this gets really interesting to me. I have a degree in psychology. That's probably why. But I struggle so much in talking with people about this because I think so much of where we go wrong is in really simple details. Do you know what I mean? When you think about acknowledgement, that person that's frustrated with that feeling of failure because they went from a process they know they could do in their sleep to something brand new that feels so, so hard, the frustration there, leaders sense that or are made aware of that. And they react in a way that is either panic or force rather than just acceptance and acknowledgement. And maybe all that person needs is to feel heard and feel validated that, "Yeah, I know. It is hard because it's new, and that's okay, but we're still going to do this because of this why for you."

And the same thing with the optimism, yes, you have this end goal, but work backwards from there even in advance and think about, "What are the realistic milestones that you can look for to celebrate so that people don't get so disengaged, waiting to get to the finish line?" It makes good sense to me. All right. Let's go back to your point about ... Communication is obviously a really big part of this. There's this need to have, you said earlier, a clear message, "Why are we doing this?" And I think one of the things we've talked about before is also acknowledging as a leader that the why is different depending on what stakeholder you're talking to. The why for the CEO is different from the why to the frontline worker, et cetera. So, you need to have this clear message. But you mentioned also that it's okay to be clear about what you don't know. Let's talk a little bit about that and this idea of clarity, compassion, and then, "Communication doesn't mean you have to have all of the answers.”

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: We hope in organizations, but I still hear that it doesn't happen, that the organization is providing their leaders with some information, enough information that starts to answer some key question, "What's changing, why is it changing?" And maybe, "What happens if we don't change? What are the actions and results? What are we trying to get to? And then what are the benefits we're hoping to achieve?" Now, many organizations will have answers to some of that, but in a much more sort of big picture general sense. It's up then to the change leader to take that information and really be able to answer the questions for their people in a way that's relatable for them. If there's one piece of advice that all of this boils down to is take some time before you talk to your folks about a change and simply put yourself in their shoes, and say, "If I was in their shoes, what would I need? How is this announcement going to land? And what might I need to adopt? Even if I'm resistant at first, that's okay."

It's thinking about, first of all, just the overall consistent basics, "Do you have that?" And if you don't, go to your leaders and ask some of those questions. Then it is, "Okay, I'm going to communicate this to folks. But before I do, I'm going to take some time to anticipate tough questions or reactions they may have so I am not surprised." And then it is going to be okay. But it involves a mindset shift because ... I know I can go in a bazillion different directions because of the overlap, but I'm trying to stay focused. If you think about what your job is in the different stages, first, it's just to announce the change, make sure people get the technical details enough, and then they can ask questions, and then they can have their reactions. So, you have to get into a mindset that says, "My job as a change leader is not to have all the answers. My job as a change leader ... I know I'm successful, is I can actually unearth a ton of questions I can't answer yet because that tells me I'm giving my folks an opportunity to engage and to get involved. I'm also trusting their wisdom and their knowledge. They're on the front lines."

And the problem is a lot of leaders are exhausted. They already feel like they're going to hear people being like, "Oh, are you kidding me? Another change? What about this? And this one still isn't working." And that's fair. And then it's like, "Okay, let's map this out. Let's talk about that." And it's giving 20 minutes. Now, what I'd like to say to leaders is, "It's okay." For instance, as soon as you shift your mindset that resistance isn't a problem, resistance is normal, this is what people do, that's cool. But resistance isn't a permanent state. And then over time, it becomes a different conversation. But at first, my job is to understand, "Do people have enough information now?" And then it is to make sure I ask questions if I have an expectation. That is, "Do you understand what you need to do differently?" Which is the clarity priority. We can touch on those in a minute. The clarity priority bottom line is, "Is everybody clear on what they need to do differently on a day-to-day basis as a result of the change?" That's usually the part that's missing.

A change gets announced, there's not as much conversation or clarity around, "Okay, now, what is it like to actually implement this change? Do I need new training?" And almost making room for, "Look, this is how it looks now, but it's probably going to change as we start to roll it out." And setting that expectation upfront so people don't think, "Oh, now, you're changing again. That must mean it was a problem." No, this is normal. I'm going to dovetail into the communication priority. Clarity priorities, making sure people are ... Really, they understand what they have to do differently. Communication is two-way. It's not just telling. It's making room to ask. And that's why I hope the book is helpful because I do outline conversations and guides for a ton of tough questions, including, "Am I going to lose my job?" Which is a big one that freaks leaders out.

It is all about, "How do you become curious and not look at somebody's negative reaction as either a total roadblock to your trying to move ahead in your analytic network and get things done? And also, how do you welcome it as good data?" It's important for me to know this. And so as soon as I go into curiosity mindset, I'm not defensive. I don't have to convince anybody. And then it's compassion, is really where I like to start. As I said, you are able to understand that resistance is completely normal, that my job here is to really try to put myself in that person's shoes, which I've got to say service people are so good ... The most successful ones all the time. It's what causes a lot of their frustration.

As I said, they love their clients. They feel like they really want to support their clients. So, how do you end up really allowing ... Put yourself in your person's shoes, but then allow them to put themselves in their client's shoes, and talk to you about what this is going to be like from a client or user experience perspective. We're talking about a lot here, but I want to make sure we focus down on that most leaders right now, they are already change leaders. They're doing it. So, the goal is, "Let's figure out what you do that works?" And if you're coming up against some particular problems or challenges, I'm hoping this book can make it easy for you to try a couple of things differently to get that change adoption,

Sarah Nicastro: That makes sense. I think this idea of, "It's okay to say I don't know." Also goes back to authenticity, which builds trust. To me ... I'm probably more skeptical than some, but the worst thing someone could do if I ask a question and they don't know is to make something up because I will just smell the BS and just walk away, rolling my eyes. And that disconnect is what you want to be avoiding. You're better off just being honest and transparent, "I don't know, but let me find out. I don't know. I'll come back to you. I don't know. Let's whatever." So, it almost is part of the compassion piece for me of-

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: Totally.

Sarah Nicastro: ... "Don't let your ego make you feel the need to make things up. It's okay to not have all the answers. It's better to not have all the answers and figure them out together than to pretend you do if you don't." Now, you mentioned some of the tough questions. I want people to get the book and read the book. So, we don't need to go through all of the examples, but-

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: I'm happy to.

Sarah Nicastro: What is the advice on ... Obviously, you should anticipate that you will get some, but how do you navigate those tough questions or those moments of extreme resistance without taking it personally or losing focus, confidence, energy on where you're trying to get to?

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: I think the whole point is these conversations are hard. So, what I like to say is it's not that you're ever maybe going to feel great about having these conversations or that you're going to like them. It is, again, shifting a bit to be able to tolerate the discomfort. And most people that I have found, they build the skill over time. And then they start to have a couple of things, which is what's in the book. So, let's talk about that. The first thing is it's normal. As soon as you shift your mindset that somebody's reaction or tough question is not a barometer of my change leadership ability ... And it might not even be a barometer that they're resisting change or not. Resistance is simply concerns that haven't yet been addressed. So, if you can shift to that, that often helps again ... As I like to say, as soon as we trigger curiosity in ourselves, that oftentimes alone reduces our own anxiety. In the brain, there's a different emotion that's now in line in your amygdala, and it's not fear or anxiety. That's one.

Two is if I've taken some time in advance, given what I know, and prepared for some tough questions like, "Why do we need to do this when everything's going so well?" Or, "I'm already overwhelmed." Or, "Am I going to lose my job?" Or whatever. [inaudible 00:31:22] you take some time in advance, there are ways to handle that. What I like to say to leaders is across the board, the one tip that will really help is, "Stop thinking you have to give an answer right away." And again, we think about where I should be asking more and telling. If someone clearly is coming forward with a question that's very clear that they just have the wrong information, then yes, tell is like, "Hey, let me just make sure I'm clear." Oftentimes, it's simply playing back, which is what service people are trained to do with clients, "Let me play back. When I just want to deescalate conflict, let me play back what I hear you saying. Okay, great. Yes, boom."

If there's more of an emotion behind it, telling can start to get into a debate. That's what you're trying to avoid. First of all, as you know this, you can say something like, "Hey, that question makes sense. I think I understand why you're asking it, but I'd love to get some more information. Why is that coming up for you now? Or can you give me some more information?" That does two things. It enables the person to sometimes even get clearer on what it is, especially if there's emotion involved. And so it could be, "Hey, what are you concerned about? I think it's this, but tell me more." So, the leader is simply there, helping the person get to the bottom of stuff. But that does require in that moment, that the leader has already kind of come into it and said, "Okay, I'm going to take off my analytic network hat. I'm simply going to put on my empathetic network."

Now, you had said you are probably more geared towards having a preference. Me too. That said, when my brain is focused on a goal, I'm on a tight timeframe. I got another meeting coming up. I'm in my analytic network. And so I'm going to be much more likely to tell. So, part of it is being very clear in this conversation ... This may be a tough one. So, I'm going to have some notes. I'm going to have a couple of questions I can ask back, and then I'm going to make sure I take time. And if we're running out of time, I'm going to say, "Hey, let's continue this." But the whole point is can you ask a couple of questions first, let the person talk a minute and then say, "Huh, that's a great question. If I was in your shoes, I could understand why you're asking it. Here's what I know right now, and here's what, still, we don't know."

The other thing that's really tricky here, and this goes back to the neuroscience concept of uncertainty, oftentimes, it's hard for people when, again, change wasn't their idea. It's being foisted on them to feel okay about moving forward if they don't have all the answers, but leaders and frontline people. Oftentimes, it's important for the leader to say ... If they are not able to answer a question, be very clear about, again, "Great question. I can understand why you're asking it. We don't have an answer now. Is not having an answer preventing you from doing your job right now? And if it is, listen, that's good to know." But oftentimes, people just don't like not knowing, and they'll feel bad about it. They'll feel uncomfortable. And that's important for leaders to say, "Look, I totally get it. Your question makes perfect sense. Here's my commitment to get you an answer. But I think in the meantime, you'll still be able to do these things even if it's uncomfortable. Am I right about that?"

So, it's just always trusting your people that they're trying to do the best they can with the information and pausing for a minute, and just simply joining them. Doesn't mean agreeing. It just means, "I'm going to be present enough for you for these next 10 minutes just to make sure I'm getting what it is that is important to you.”

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, I think that distinction that acknowledging emotions does not mean agreeing with them is a good one because people want that acknowledgement. They want to feel heard. That doesn't mean you are agreeing, conceding. It's just a matter of allowing them to feel that way and feel heard, and then to your point, finding the solution. Okay. One of the things I want to talk about is change fatigue. We have had a whole lot of it over the last few years. I think service, we had a big push of digital transformation and technology change. We've had changes in, "What are customer expectations, and how do we shift service delivery or business models to meet those needs?" And then obviously, the last few years, that's all been compounded by changes as a result of the pandemic, et cetera. What are the thoughts on change fatigue and how it factors in both for leaders and for employees?

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: I think you said it beautifully. The question is, "What is it that will help both employees and leaders when it seems like there's no relief really coming?" And so part of that is, first of all, understanding that this idea ... Let me say this another way. As soon as you understand that our brains are automatically tilted to the negative, that's really important information. Once you understand that, you're able to stop and pause, and stop thinking that just because your brain is saying, "Oh my God, there's something wrong. There's something wrong." Doesn't make it true. And this is the most important thing. 100% of my clients are overwhelmed and exhausted. And so the first thing we have to do is help them understand, "You are in habit." Most people's brains are in the habit of anxiety, and it's exhausting because we are not built to constantly be in fight or flight. We also know ... Little more neuroscience research, that there's been research done about ... They put people in MRI machines. They flashed images. They were trying to understand, "Is there a difference between something lodging in what we call the unconscious brain, which is more of the inner brain versus the outer brain? And yes." What they discovered was people's amygdala could be lighting up and flashing, and reacting to stuff in the environment even though their conscious brain wasn't recognizing it.

So, the first thing for leaders to understand is you have to take care of yourself. And that may mean not giving yourself access to all this bad news. It's allowing time for quiet, and it's allowing time for reflection and honoring your state. That's one. Two, it's then saying, "I'm in the habit of bad news. I'm in the habit of telling myself the worst case scenario is going to happen. I'm in the habit of focused on fixing problems. I'm in the habit of catching people doing things wrong. I'm in the habit of criticizing myself." Once you see how tilted you are to the negative, then it's figuring out, "Are there one or two things I can do that bring me joy?"

And all good change leadership, which is basically good leadership, starts with you. So, start with yourself and say, "How am I feeling about this change? Does this exhaust me? Okay, I need to take a moment and honor myself, listen to my concerns." I have tips in the book for, "Hey, if this is your concern, here's a way to reframe it." It's not ignoring it. It's not acting like it doesn't exist. It's just searching for a more empowering, optimistic way forward. Again, it's so hard for people because we think the negative is more real or more true, and it's not. It's simply our scalps working over-time of all the things that could go wrong to try to protect us. So, it's developing a new habit. Once you do that, that even alone, to start to scan for the good, to see things that are going well. Even if it's a little thing, that builds energy and resilience. The other thing is people being really clear, and you can do this with yourself, and then with your people.

And again, I used to roll my eyes at this, but not anymore after both experiencing the magic and power as a leader of using this, is strengths. What that means is, "I am clear myself, as well as my people. We know the activities that we love doing, that energize us. Doesn't mean we're going to do them all the time. It's just, "We all know." They might be a little different, so we can leverage each other when there are things that drain me, somebody else might want. Now, that's different than a skill. For instance, I'm good at PowerPoint. Thank goodness, I can do it right. It's a skill. I don't love it, but I can do it. Versus Excel makes me want to poke my eye out. That drains me. So, how do I find people who love doing that? Let them do it. Part of this is honoring on your team, "Are people more often than not doing activities that they love, or are they doing activities they love, but the organization is making it so difficult for them?"

And then how do you as a leader focus on a couple of things and practice shared leadership with your team, which is saying, "Yes, let's figure out what are the obstacles right now that we're facing? What are the things we can fix or at least speed up? And what are the things that we can't do anything about right now. It's just where the technology is at. And so what can we do to make sure we all are taking care of ourselves?" And then it's celebrating success, as you said. It's a little thing. It's a little thing. And in the book, I have a framework called Great Job 2.0, which really is most people ... Because again, we're so focused on solving the problems. Again, we're paid to do that. That's great.

But Great Job 2.0 is simply like, "Hey, let's take 10 minutes and have a conversation about what went really well, what enabled your success. Here's where I saw you shine. Thank you so much. Well done, you. And what success do you want to preserve that we can take forward? Hey, can we do this in a team conversation so we can celebrate together? Who else helped you?" It's these little things that are like 20 minutes. It's, again, changing some habits, and then also really asking your team what they need, trusting the wisdom of your team so you as a leader, aren't working so hard.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, I think that there's so much of this that I think is really impactful. But the whole time you were talking about the fatigue, it just made me think of how very, very important it is to really believe in the need for and the power of that optimism because I think there's a lot of people that ... Like you said earlier, there's a point in your career where you would've rolled your eyes. I think a lot of people feel that way. But when you think about not only what you're saying about how the brain is wired, but the realities of the negativity that we have all experienced and are experiencing, there is a need to bring more of that to the table. Whether it's big things, little things, personal things, team things, I think that there is a real responsibility for leaders to take that seriously and to think about how to harness that power to offset not only change fatigue, but a lot of the realities that they're facing today. It doesn't erase at all. But if that's something you can do without spending a ton of money, without exerting all of your time, that can offset some of that. Why would you not? Right?

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: Exactly. It's usually just learning about it, is what you've said, because a lot of it is leaders taking a minute and just asking themselves first, "What's stopping me from doing this? Is it a knowledge thing? Do I know how to do it? I'm not really sure I buy it." And that matters. If you don't buy it, okay. But you don't buy it probably not because it's not true. You don't buy it because you don't know enough about it yet. I learned this ... Again, I was lucky being at ADP, and then we bought the Marcus Buckingham company. Marcus has been amazing in the work he's done with Gallup and the research. Really, the couple of key questions that are the things that he's focused in on, data, after data, after data of the most engaged teams are, one, "I get a chance to use my strengths every day at work." And two, "My teammates have my back." Is a big one. Another one is, "I'm clear, basically, what's expected of me."

We talk about all of those, compassion, clarity, and communication. And again, the leader doesn't have to all of a sudden ... I think in our mind, we go to black and white thinking, "I have to become a cheerleader, and oh my God." No, you do not. You simply just have to find your own authentic way of saying, "Well done." But the other thing that really gets in the way of this is people, themselves, feel weird acknowledging their strengths and what we know ... And you've probably seen this as well, when they've done the research, joy is one of the least trusted emotions at work. And again, it's like, "Wow, we have all been conditioned that we have to be miserable." And this is what's changing now. The external world used to be a lot more comfortable to go out there and get some feel-good. It's not as much like that anymore.

And so what's happening is many people now, I believe, are truly being directed inward, and we need to find these senses of joy, whether we get it from a partner, an activity, nature, a pet, just those moments of joy. Our brains need to spend at least 20 seconds in that feeling of feel-good, so it actually chemically makes a difference as opposed to the rampant anxiety that is nothing more than a thought or an emotion. It's not real, most of it.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah. I think too, the other kind of excuse that I could foresee leaders having is, "I'm just too busy. I'm too busy. Even if I say I get it, I'm too busy to make time to celebrate small wins because I'm focused on this big thing." And I think what we're talking about today is really the argument that it's too important not to. When you think about the intersection of how leaders are leading, and like you said, really every leader is a change leader, and then the issues that organizations have with retention and recruiting, and company culture, and employee experience and satisfaction, this is what a lot of it stems from. We can't just continually drive, drive, drive. People have to feel some sense of reward and connection to what they're doing, which comes from leadership. Super interesting.

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: Could I actually follow up on-

Sarah Nicastro: I think this is ... Yeah, go ahead.

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: I want to follow up on that because listen, I honor and fully believe ... And trust is wisdom. A leader saying, "I'm too busy." And so all I would say is, "I totally get it. I'm sure you are." There's no need to argue with that. If you're getting the results that you want with your current approach, that's great. If you're not sure and you really feel too busy, again, talk to your team. Ask your team, "Hey, I'm considering this, and I know we're all tired. I would love to hear from you all." So, leader doesn't have to do any more work. Maybe there's somebody on your team who's like, "Actually, I have a story of when this really helped me, and I'd love this." But it's making it safe for the team. And so again, it's simply saying, "Try and experiment." You don't have to, again, change who you are. You can do your, "I'm not sure I believe this. I'm reading this book. Do we want to talk about it and try it? Are we all rolling our eyes? And if we don't want to do it, then don't do it." [inaudible 00:49:18]. But that's what I say about shared leadership and, "Don't work so hard as a leader.”

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. Any final thoughts? I guess one final question I have would be, if you were to want to surface one major misconception you feel leaders have about how to handle change or navigate change, what would it be?

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: I think it is that resistance is a problem. I think in that one thing, simply shift to say, "These are just people with good brains. These are just being good humans, and how do I look at it? Oh, probably some really good information there." And now, I can become curious as opposed to being like, "Oh my God, there's that difficult person again." And they may be a difficult person. I'm not saying they're not. But if you can be like, "Oh, I trust you. You tell me. What do you think?" And just ask a couple questions, that really could change a lot.

Sarah Nicastro: And expecting it instead of having an unrealistic expectation that you won't get it, knowing it's normal. It's not a reflection, like you said earlier, of a failing. It's not personal. That makes sense. Okay. All right. This is the book. Tell everyone where they can find it. That was my Vanna White moment.

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: Well done. It's on Amazon. You can get it through IndieBound, Barnes and Noble, an audio book's coming soon. But that's where it is. And also, if people want more information, they can go to my website. I do this work because I'm a nerd. As I said, I love it. So, executive coaching, if leaders want some training, it's there too.

Sarah Nicastro: That's awesome. I love people that love what they do. It makes me very happy. Okay. Excellent. Elizabeth, thank you so much. I'll make sure the links for the book and for your website are in the podcast show notes. I really appreciate you coming. I could easily talk to you for another few hours. So, maybe-

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: Me too.

Sarah Nicastro: ... we'll be lucky enough to have you back sometime.

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: I would love that, Sarah. Thank you for the opportunity to connect with your listeners and you.

Sarah Nicastro: Absolutely. All right. You can learn more by visiting us at futureoffieldservice.com. I want to remind everyone that we recently launched the Future of Field Service Insider, which you can now subscribe to. That will make sure that every other week, you receive the latest content we have published directly to your inbox, along with some exclusives. We also recently announced the 2023 Future of Field Service live tour schedule. We will be visiting six countries this year. So, have a look at the website to see where we will be and sign up for the event nearest you. Ah, the Future of Field Service podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more at ifs.com. And as always, thank you for listening.

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Are EVs Ready for Field Service Prime Time?

February 13, 2023 | 4 Mins Read

Are EVs Ready for Field Service Prime Time?

By Sarah Nicastro, Creator, Future of Field Service

Sustainability is an increasing focus for companies across industries and around the globe. When it comes to the ways that changes in field service operations can impact sustainability initiatives, the list is longer than you may think. Planning and scheduling solutions that help minimize necessary travel help, remote capabilities eliminate some travel need altogether, and Servitization has many ties to environmental impact (get a feel for exactly how by checking out stories on Kaer, Baxi, and Koolmill).

Another topic of conversation that comes up when we discuss how to make field service greener are electric vehicles (EVs). EVs have the potential to significantly reduce carbon emissions, and a number of countries have pledged (or even passed legislation) to reduce or eliminate gas-powered vehicles over the next several decades. In the U.S., California is leading the charge with plans to ban gas–powered cars by 2035.

I had an interesting conversation at Field Service Connect in Austin last fall with delegates on what exactly this will mean for field service organizations. For those in regions where regulations are looming that will force a shift to EVs, the pressure to purchase new vehicles is more intense. Other companies, though, have considered potentially shifting all or part of their fleet to hybrid or full-electric vehicles as gas prices have soared.

There are examples of EV fleet conversions going on right now – a number of cities have rolled out electric buses and garbage trucks. More significantly, the U.S. Postal Service plans to roll out 66,000 electric vehicles over the next several years. Beyond reducing emissions, there are other benefits to be had from EVs. For one, fuel prices continue to be volatile (and in many areas outside of the U.S., those prices were already much steeper). EVs also have fewer moving parts, do not require regular oil changes, and in some cases can provide businesses with valuable tax breaks.

What came into question during that conversation at Field Service Connect, though, is just how practical this change is in present circumstances. This varies, of course, depending on the type of service business you are running, and the geographic area served.

Practicalities of EV Use in Field Service

First, can you get an electrical vehicle that fits your business? If you primarily rely on cars or pick-up trucks, the number of hybrid and EV options is expanding. But the standard in many industries is a van, often with a fairly hefty load capacity. Currently in the U.S., there are only a few options when it comes to EV vans, and a further complication is that many of them offer a fairly limited mileage range. The Ford E-Transit, for example, offers versions with a range from just 108 to 126 miles between charges.

European firms have a better selection, and more electric vans are coming to global markets that offer longer ranges and a wider variety of sizes. You can read about some of them here and here. The cost of some of these vans is close to their gas-powered counterparts, but the limited range will likely remain a significant challenge for some organizations.

Which brings about the second major question, which is around how advanced the charging infrastructure is in the areas your field service teams operate. While EV charging infrastructure in the U.S. is coming along quickly, some of the participants in that conversation felt it isn’t yet extensive enough to support their operations. While some people envision gas station-like charging hubs, EV charging can happen just about anywhere a vehicle can be parked, so expect to see more of charging ports in parking garages and lots. If you service commercial customers, you may even be able to plug your van in while the technician is working. There are also portable charging units that can add range for vans that do not report back to the depot often.

Fleet operators will likely have to install their own rapid charging infrastructure to use when vehicles are not in service, as well as charging hardware for technicians that take their vehicles home. The logistics of charging multiple vehicles are a little more complicated than just pulling them up to a gas pump one at a time, so that could cause complications, too, particularly if you are trying to take advantage of off-peak charging rates.

You also have to consider how you will manage a mixed or fully EV fleet. For companies that rely on fleet management solutions, EVs can currently pose a challenge. There is, in fact, a whole new ecosystem of fleet management solutions aimed directly at EV fleets. In addition to tracking EV-centric fleet metrics like charging status, these solutions are tailored to gather data from vehicles that do not necessarily conform to the same vehicle standards as gas-powered vehicles.

While the cost of EVs is generally higher than traditional vehicles (for now), there can be some long-term cost savings both in fuel and maintenance, in addition to benefits related to compliance and tax savings. EVs are generally quieter than gas-powered vehicles, and in some cases can serve as a power source to tools and lights. There is also, of course, the impact on your company’s sustainability initiatives.

Cost, range, and overall practicality probably mean that in the U.S., outside of California, EV adoption in field service will remain relatively low in the immediate future – but I expect that will change quite a bit in the next three years. In Europe, where gas-powered vehicles will be banned after 2035, there will be more rapid adoption, but also more support from governments to make that practical.

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What Disconnects Are Holding Field Service Back?

February 8, 2023 | 20 Mins Read

What Disconnects Are Holding Field Service Back?

Sarah talks with Jason Hamm, VP of Networks Strategic Programs at Ericsson, about what he’s learned from traveling the globe about the gaps between field service potential and intent versus execution and outcomes.

Sarah Nicastro: Welcome to the Future of Field Service podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Today, we are going to be discussing the question of is a leadership disconnect holding field service back. I'm excited to be joined today by Jason Hamm, who is the Vice President of Networks Strategic Programs at Ericsson. Jason, welcome to the Future of Field Service podcast.

Jason Hamm: Thank you.

Sarah Nicastro: Yes, thanks for being here. So, before we get into our discussion, tell our listeners a little bit about yourself, your role. Anything you want to share.

Jason Hamm: My role is Strategic Programs. What does that mean? I'm looking at five to 10 year time horizon, thinking about what will be trends and themes, and what could be, which is slightly different. Trying to think about opportunities to say, how do we need to transform or continually adapt, to continue thriving five years, 10 years out? That time horizon working back with the organization.

Something about me is I started as an installer in telecommunications, and have worked my way through a lot of different roles and positions. I find the greatest satisfaction in leading teams, understanding individuals, and then working with individuals to work together as a team. That's what fascinates me most.

Sarah Nicastro: Okay. How long have you been in your current role?

Jason Hamm: Only for about two, almost three years now.

Sarah Nicastro: Okay. Yeah, I think it's really interesting. This idea of the timeframe you're specifying five to 10 years out, right? We've done a lot of content and had some different conversations about, organizations obviously need to be innovating. And by that, I don't mean incremental improvement. I mean actual innovation, which is really what you are looking for. What are those opportunities?

And we have had some conversations about how sometimes, organizations expect that their operational leaders should just also put on that hat of identifying the opportunities and areas to innovate. And that's really tough, right? Because they're two different hats.

That's not to say someone can't do both or see both sides. But I think with the pace of change that we live in today, it's kind of an unrealistic expectation or unfair ask, to task a leader of a business who's responsible for meeting today's expectations, to also figure out. And in your free time, what should we be doing in five years? So I think it's really good that Ericsson has invested in that role specifically so that you can balance that out. So really cool.

And we're going to talk about this a little bit today. But I know in your role, you do a lot of traveling around, and engaging with folks, and really taking in a lot of what today's landscape looks like, and what people are thinking about the future.

So one of the things that we discussed is that we hear a lot today about people focus, right? We've had a lot of podcast conversations about we need to focus more on employee experience. We need to improve our company culture. We need to improve retention. We need to lead better through change, etc.

So there's this acknowledgement that it's important, and I think you said really well, that you feel most leaders have really good intentions, but there's this disconnect between those intentions, and then what action is being taken to really treat people differently or change that experience.

So you said, and I like this. "Many leaders do more business admin than they do actually leading. They're more comfortable talking about balance sheets than organizational psychology." And I think that's a really good way to put it. So talk a little bit about what you've observed, and how. And then, what do we need to do to close that gap between the intention and the reality?

Jason Hamm: Yeah, good. One of the things I've learned, some years ago, I did a 52 market... Within the US, 52 market tour. I asked the business leader to put forward their top 2%. Top 2%. These were technicians predominantly. And I met with those 52 markets worth of top 2% technicians.

And one of the questions I asked was, "Think about the best leader that you've ever worked for. And what were the attributes?" And it was just on an old school whiteboard, no bad answers, etc.

What I found fascinating was zero said things like they're a subject matter expert in technology, etc. And one thing that was unanimous across the board was the leader gave them constructive feedback.

So I think that's a fallacy that it's almost like an unwritten rule. All of us under a cost pressures these days, that's not going to change ever. It's very common for a leader to have the right intent and think about, "My top performers, what I need to keep doing is telling them they're rock stars." That's a common word I hear all the time. "Jimmy or Sally, you're a rockstar. You're a rockstar. Keep doing what you're doing. Thank you so much for your contributions."

But what I learned from those rock stars in 52 different markets asking open questions is they're so hard on themselves. They're harder on themselves than any leader ever could be. They feel dismissed if they're not given some, "Yeah, but coach or leader, what can I do better?" Even if you think about professional athletes that are the best in the game, they're constantly looking for coaching and advice on how they can be even better. So I think that's one fallacy maybe for leaders to consider. Another thing I would say is I think it's the vernacular when you say things like psychology and philosophy. It just feels like it doesn't fit in a business context.

But if I shared with you that psychology is a study of how we do think and philosophy is a study of how we could think, then it's like, "Wow, if you think about especially in a services community, all we have is people." And all this sudden that kind of jumps up to the top of the list to be thinking about.

So I would encourage leaders to think differently. Don't be afraid of the psychology and philosophy term. Think about what's most important for you to focus on. Your subject matter expertise as a leader is leading coaching and developing. And that requires you to really understand people as individuals, how they think, how they're motivated, how they're demotivated, etc. So those are a couple observations I've learned over the years.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah. Is there any other gaps you would identify thinking about the disconnect between good intentions, but not actions that match those intentions?

Jason Hamm: Design thinking is a common buzzword these days. I'm not sure which consultant firm came up with that. It's very simply thinking about who you're trying to help.

I think that again, leaders consult with a lot of different folks. Leaders have the right intention. They want to get with let's say tower climbers, or plumbers, or whatever the service is, and understand their problems.

The reality of what that looks like is, it may be a crude analogy, but it's like gold mining. You have to sift through a lot of dirt to find those flakes of gold. And I genuinely believe that sometimes a leader will have a preconceived idea of what the solution might look like. They ask questions. And the questions typically, if you're asking the people that are working the challenge, they're not going to just articulate, "These are the top three things, and the ROI." They're not going to turn it into those kind of business terms that maybe a leader will have to translate it to.

So the challenge I would offer out there is really extreme immersion in design thinking. Really breathing the same air, walking the same shoes. And then constantly checking back to say, "Do I have this right?" And you got to have people that will speak up and tell you, "No, Sarah. That's not what I said. That's not what I mean when I say this. This is what I mean." You have to encourage that.

And one of the first things to think about and consider is I am not a reflection of the community I'm trying to help. That's really difficult for me personally because I used to be in the field doing field services. And I like to consider myself well grounded, and I remain connected, and I understand.

The truth is though, that's been a long time ago. And I don't think exactly a technician thinks these days, I have a different mindset, a different perspective. So that's one of the first ways, and I continually have to remind myself is really understand that you do not represent your logic. Even with your best intentions, you do not represent the people that you're trying to help. That that helps you talk to people with a more open mind and really hear them, what they're trying to say.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, that's a really good point. So there's really this big area around listening. And like you said, immersion. So not just surface level. "We did an all hands, and we did an open forum Q&A once this quarter." But really getting entrenched in the business and being exposed to what are the frontline workers thinking, struggling with? What's the real perspective? Okay. I like that.

So one of the other areas we talked about where there's maybe some disconnect and some opportunity to really evolve is around learning and development. So you mentioned that it's human nature for people to go after what's comfortable. I know you can't speak to every business. But when we think about learning and development, what is that disconnect? What are we not doing that we should be, or trying to do that's not really working? And what's your perspective on how we need to innovate in that area?

Jason Hamm: Yep. I'll tell you a quick way I learned something in that. On this topic, I've traveled all over the world as far as Australia. Asking people from all different industries. Field services was the common connection.

And one question I've asked the audiences all across the US, other countries, including Australia, is think about the best technician that you've ever worked with. And just raise a hand, shout out words that describe what made that technician the best one that you've ever worked with.

And I'm a little bit fascinated when you have unanimous statistics. Unanimously, not one single time. All across the world, all these different groups that don't even know each other. Not one single time have hard skills been brought up. So under technical knowledge, or Excel expertise, or etc. 100% of the time it's been the soft skills. It's been things like their ethics are second to none. I completely trust them. Their work ethic is remarkable. They have insatiable curiosity. They are a real team player. Anytime they learn something, they try to help the next person.

So what that tells me, and that's real data. I've seen it. I've talked to all these people across the world. What that says is the most important thing, as we think about developing our people, it is the soft stuff.

So that doesn't say that AI, and ML, and machine learning, and all these different, cool things. Those are really important for certain groups to know in certain aspects. Or maybe if it's in a plumbing, to really have that technical knowledge. I'm not discounting that.

What I'm saying is what I've learned is the most important thing is finding the right talent and developing that talent further. You're going to get way more ROI, if you want to call it that, by investing in people's soft skills.

So when you look at your L&D, critical path learning, etc., if you find trade specific hard skill at the top. And perhaps missing or way, way down the priority list, things that are behavioral. Check that. Think about that. Is that really the right thing to do?

And then the second part of your question is what do we do about it? Without freaking people out, there are a lot of behavioral personality tests. You can have semi guided. Basically you just take something online, you have a professional come in. They're not going to use a bunch of psychology terminology or whatever.

What I've found is people absolutely are fascinated with those readouts, because it's not a Sarah's better than Jason kind of discussion. It's a spectrum of these behavioral areas to say, "Here's how Sarah is, and where Jason is. And here's how they might complement each other in these kind of scenarios. These are the kind of areas where Jason would go to Sarah and lean on her for help. These are the kinds of things that cause tension between people like Sarah and Jason, etc."

People are absolutely thrilled by that. And it also takes a lot of the emotion out of the day-to-day business, where maybe I'm an extrovert and you're an introvert, for example. That's a pain point. And you just think, "I wish Jason would go away. He's annoying me, he's super extroverted." After having that discussion together as a team, taking your team through that, you can point to that study. You can point to that readout and just go, "Jason, you're being a little bit of extrovert," or whatever. You can take some of that emotion out of the business. And it really helps with teamwork, camaraderie, I would say. That's just an easy example.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah. So I do think that that response you got is interesting. I also would say it's in line with what I've heard over a lot of conversations. Which is, there are aspects from a soft skills perspective that certainly are trainable. There's also aspects that sometimes are innate, that are hard to teach. Whereas those technical skills, I think there's a general agreement that they can be taught.

And so how do we shift from always looking for experience, certification, these technical things? Versus figuring out what some of those traits are that are common among our top talent, and then figuring out how do we find more of that, right?

I think what's also interesting though is how if you think about, going back to, I know some people don't like to talk about psychology, maybe like you said. But I do.

And I think when you go back to people that have that, you said insatiable curiosity. People that have that drive and that sense of ownership, etc. How they need strong leadership to feel connected, and engaged, and to want to stay.

So in an environment where for instance, they log on to the learning and development platform, and it's all just these super technical process-based things. And they're not feeling that there's an outlet for some of those traits. They might not feel they have the opportunity to really utilize them in the environment where they are. So that's where there's different connection points back to what is the philosophy of the leaders in the organization around people, and managing those relationships, and offering them training and development, career paths, etc. How are we giving people that have that drive the outlet to use it, right? What are your thoughts on that?

Jason Hamm: I'll give you an example of one solution I've used several times. And I'm sure there are many competitors that do the same. But it gets back to approximately 20 behavioral attributes.

And what's really cool, if you just go into an organization, let's say an organization says, "Hey, I really want to focus on these five roles. These five roles represent 80, 90% of my employee base." What you can do is even if it's subjective, have the leadership team say, "What are your top 2% or 5%?" Whatever. The top 5% of your whatever technician role, let's call it. What you can do is have them take this personality assessment, and it groups. So we all know, hopefully we can agree these are the top 2% or 5%. This is what the profile looks like. And it's a one to 10 spectrum. 10 is not better than one, etc.

And what you see with that is as you look for future candidates for these roles, if you see a tight, let's say it's a seven, eight. Is the spread of the top two or 5%. What that means is anything outside of that seven or eight is a stress point. Doesn't mean that someone that's lower than seven or higher than eight can't do it. But it does mean that the more they stray from that on that particular behavioral attribute, it's going to be a stress point.

So if you think about sales and extrovert. If you're a straight up one on the introvert scale, and you're in cold call sales or door-to-door sales, that's a great example of that's going to be really stressful for that individual. Doesn't mean that that individual can't do it, etc.

To me, that's really no different than if you want Cisco certification or a certain electrical license. Those hard skill things, we look at that all the time. We look at that on resume, we ask those questions on interviews. And if we believe what I learned across the globe, what I said earlier. The more important thing is these personality things, the behavioral piece. So leading from the front and taking even 50% of the same rigor we put into the hard skills, into the soft skills. It really can be easy to measure and think about.

And it's also blind. A lot of companies thankfully, are starting to really think about their diversity, inclusion, unconscious bias, things like that. What behavioral assessment is. It doesn't care what gender or color, etc., that you are. This is the truth about that person. And then you can make decisions based on what works from a personality perspective. So it kind of can help, depending on how you use it in those areas as well.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, that makes sense. So going back to the point about from a leadership perspective, intent versus what action looks like today, we talked about some people are more comfortable talking about balance sheets than they are organizational psychology.

Now obviously, balance sheets are important. So no one's saying to ignore that. But how do we, I guess upskill, or help our leaders be more comfortable with these conversations, these topics, and really help them to take appropriate actions that match that intent?

Jason Hamm: Depending on your setup, if you have the luxury of having some training budget for leaders, I think it's most important that you do something together as a leadership team. As opposed to if you have 12 leaders, each one going for themself. What's really ideal and has a profound ripple effect is to take them all through the same thing together. They'll have the same vernacular, etc. Then they start leading from the front, and then cascade it into the organization.

That's the most powerful approach. I would just suggest not a certain name or company, but what I would suggest is find something that's not focused on business administration. Rather, focused on how to understand people, how to motivate people, how to have difficult conversations with people. When you look at the curricula or the syllabus, those are the kind of things you're looking for. Not the business administration piece. That's quite different.

If you can't get that, if you can't get that training, there are so many, depending on how you, there's books on Audible. There's YouTube free videos of some fantastic different podcasts, etc., that you can get these sound bites and books that you can read, for very inexpensive to even free. You can really educate yourself. And it's a grind.

What I would say is it's uncomfortable. And it's just like any habit. Whether it's trying to go to the gym and you haven't been going to the gym, it's a grind. You have to commit yourself to it. And what I suggest to leaders that are really serious about it, find four hours a week. And treat that four hours like a religion. During those four hours, you're going to block off all communication unless it's an absolute real emergency. And for those four hours, you're going to work on yourself, in these specific areas.

And that may look different to you, and me, and someone else. So I think that's the part. Just get into the grind four hours a week, or whatever you can afford to give. And then all of a sudden you'll look up six months later, and A, it's become natural. It's become part of your day-to-day routine. And then B, you've grown, you've learned. And you're thinking it's more front of mind than way, way back here. So therefore, you'll be more comfortable in those conversations. And all of a sudden you'll find yourself, when you're conversing with your employees or your managers of employees, etc., you'll have these thoughts come out, because that's what's relevant on your mind. You're reading about it, you're consuming podcasts, etc. These are on the front of your mind now, so therefore it's going to be on your employees and managers, etc. So it's just a grind to get set up and go after.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah. I think that's an important point is some portion of that disconnect between intent and action really comes back to default to comfort level. If you don't make it mandatory, if you don't put parameters around it, you're just going to get sucked back into what you know or what the demands are of the day, the week, etc.

And the same goes for employees. Going back to the learning and development. If they log on, and the technical courses are mandatory and they're at the top, then they'll do them and move on. If the soft skills stuff is at the bottom and optional, you're not doing anything as an organization to really force, gently force some of that change.

So I think it's a good point of making it as mandatory as possible, making it measurable, and making that commitment. And for a company that really wants to evolve to some degree, doing that by subset of leaders. And like you said, trickle down.

I'm not going to ask you to name your top or anything, because I don't want to put you on the spot in terms of what's the best. But just to share some of your personal sources, is there anything that comes to mind when you think of good books you've read, Audible, podcasts, etc.? Anything you would name for folks to check out?

Jason Hamm: Yes. Including a company is okay?

Sarah Nicastro: Sure.

Jason Hamm: There's a company out of Florida called ADEPT, A-D-E-P-T. And I've worked with them over a lot of different years, different companies, totally different groups. I find their approach to be the best I've ever worked with. It's highly immersive, and it's a long term. Typically, your shortest term is six months. So as a leadership team, whoever goes through it, goes through it together for six months. Every two weeks you have a session.

I think that's a really powerful approach because it's way better than let's say other things. Even if it's the same content. You get kind of immersed for a week, but then you go back. And it's so easy to fall back into your BAU. I did read Mindset recently. I do find that to be very powerful. It's the first book I believe that's been written on the mindset as I understand it. I think that might be one of the most important pieces if you think about character, who a person is, etc.

Another thing I would say that's very practical. You were talking about mandatory training and things. I agree with that. Whatever you focus on. One of my mentors said one time, "Leadership focus is like fish food to fish. Wherever you focus, the fish will come." And that's absolutely true.

Most people, probably they're listening to your podcast or leaders of leaders. And in your staff meeting, ops meeting, whatever you call your meetings, your cadence. If you're talking about the finances and all these things, if you're not talking about leading coaching and developing, if you're not spending at least five minutes of that time, every single time you talk on these soft skills and all that, you cannot expect the organization to adopt and make some of these pivots. So that's one really free. It's a free thing to do is just talk about it.

And even if it's clunky at first and awkward for that five minutes each meeting that you're having every week, that's okay. You got to start wobbly legs and clunky at first. And then all of a sudden, it will become more advanced. And people read, and become more informed, and educated, and comfortable thinking about it. So that's an easy, free way to do it as well.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, that's good. So we said at the beginning your role is really to look five, 10 years out, and think about what's coming. What challenges are coming, what opportunities, etc.

And so when you think about that viewpoint and the things that you look at day to day, and then what needs to evolve from a leadership perspective, what are your thoughts on what needs to happen, how things will need to change, how the gap will close or continue to widen? What comes to mind when you think about how the topics you're looking at from a strategic perspective match to what we need from leaders going forward?

Jason Hamm: If you think about the pyramid, it's going to turn upside down. We're going to move toward, some people call it the gig economy, where it's transaction based. And what does that really mean? That really means that the human doing the work, the human that has the knowledge, skill, and ability, that's performing the given task and work is in control. And it's not any longer a matter of, "You work for me at my company as a W2, and therefore you just go do what I say."

Those days will evaporate. And what we will be left with is if Sarah is a top 2% performer, and I'm representing a company as a leader and I want the top 2%, I'm going to have to use honey, not a stick. We're going to have to be the most attractive, desirable. We're going to have to have a brand that people are drawn to. That connect with their hearts, not just their mind. We're going to have to do the work. We're going to have to be the most attractive to people that have the knowledge, scalability, the top talent. It's not going to be a, "We'll pay you a little bit more and demand you to do crazy things," or whatever.

So we're going to have to fundamentally change. Some people are further ahead on that spectrum than others. But this whole 1980s type of leadership where you just kind of put your fist down on the desk and demand of your employees, those people are the dinosaurs of leadership. And either they need to change completely, or they will be obsolete. That's what's happening.

And I see some companies, I think Ericsson's at the front of that for sure, leading by example. And I see other companies. And sometimes it's the smaller field services companies that they're looking at three ring binders instead of using technology. And also, their leadership style is very much 1980s fist on the desk kind of thing. So it's an eyeopener, I think, for leaders to think about how are you leading. Because if you think about leading, just by definition, if you look it up in Webster, whichever dictionary you choose, it's not about mandating. That's not what leading is about. It's about influencing people, which requires buy-in, etc. So that's what I would throw out there for the future.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, I think it's very well put. And I could not agree more. So thank you for that Jason. Thank you for your insights. I really appreciate you joining me and sharing your perspective today. So thanks for being here.

Jason Hamm: Happy to. Thank you for having me.

Sarah Nicastro: Absolutely. You can find more by visiting us at futureoffieldservice.com. I want to remind you that the Future of Field Service INSIDER is now live. And you can subscribe on the website. That is a newsletter of sorts, where we deliver all of the latest content to your inbox every other week, along with some exclusives. Registration is also open for the Future of Field Service 2023 Live Tour. So we will be in six countries, various dates throughout the year. So have a look and register for the location nearest you.

The Future of Field Service podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more at ifs.com. As always, thank you for listening.

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