sarah.nicastro@ifs.com, Author at Future of Field Service

The shortage of skilled labor is a problem that has been hanging over the field service sector for years, and only got worse in the aftermath of the pandemic. We’ve talked about this challenge from a variety of standpoints – how technology can help maximize resource utilization and speed the onboarding of new hires, how we need to change recruiting practices, and how we must work harder to collect and democratize the institutional knowledge of retiring techs.

But are we overlooking an opportunity to find better or different ways to work with our older technicians? The Harvard Business Review ran an article earlier this year exploring the ways that companies can keep older workers engaged on some level to help fill in the labor gaps they face.

Through at least 2030, one of the biggest challenges is going to be the retirement of Baby Boomers, all of whom will be at least 60 years old by the end of this year. Each day, 10,000 of them hit retirement age. The article also cites a ManpowerGroup survey that found the share of companies reporting a talent shortage rose from 35% in 2013 to 77% in 2023.

In response, many companies are finding new ways to approach the graying of the workforce, including attempting to keep older workers around past age 65 in full-time, part-time, or hybrid positions to help keep staffing levels up while training and mentoring younger co-workers.

According to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics, more than 10 million Americans over the age of 65 are still employed. That figure could rise to 15 million by 2032, and 27% of senior citizens are actively looking for jobs.

Of course, field service work is not the same as, say, being a doctor, a teacher, or a software programmer. Depending on the industry segment, technicians can be expected to do a lot of very physical labor and/or to work in harsh conditions. Some technicians would likely bristle at working past retirement age while others would love to stay involved in some capacity.

There are numerous ways that field service organizations can benefit from working with their older technicians to optimize the timing and degree of their retirements. They could, for example, encourage older technicians to stick around as mentors, supervisors, or support staff. They can help get new hires up to speed and keep projects on track. Some companies may be able to keep older technicians involved on a part-time or contract basis handling basic troubleshooting or light-duty service calls or pitching in during peak demand times. With remote assistance technologies, there are more and more opportunities for older technicians to aid in service resolution from an office or even home, or to give “hands-on” support to a mentor, from a distance.

There may also be opportunities for companies to recruit older or retired technicians from adjacent industries. A tech may have passed the point where they can safely work on an offshore oil rig but could still be an asset in a less arduous service environment in an industrial or residential service field.

HR departments at service organizations could look at the existing pool of technicians and start having open conversations about their retirement plans and try to coordinate that with the onboarding of new hires. Those discussions are going to vary a lot based on age, health, family situation, and industry. The point is not to start pushing people out the door or trying to get them to stay past the point they want to work, but to find common ground that helps them meet their retirement goals and still make sure the business can support its customers. Just like a good company has paths to career advancement, they might want to create formal paths to (for lack of a better term) de-advancement – shifting into less-demanding roles as they reach or pass the typical retirement age.

There are ways this can be appealing or helpful for technicians, too. They may need to maintain company health benefits, for example, or they could use the extra income. According to the HBR article:

“If older people have more years to enjoy purposefully, they also have more years to fund. Many Americans approaching or in retirement do not have nearly enough savings. The Boston College Center for Retirement Research has found that nearly half of working-age households are at risk of not being able to maintain their current standard of living in retirement, even if the people in them work to age 65. Our recent research found that more than 40 million workers were thinking of retiring later than planned (by an average of five years), most often for financial reasons. Working longer is prudent for many—and necessary for some.”

Don’t get me wrong, that’s not a great scenario. People shouldn’t have to keep doing hard, manual labor into their 70s because the cost of living is too high. But there is probably an opportunity for employers to work with older technicians to ease that burden, address some labor shortage issues, and better protect institutional knowledge by taking a fresh look at how retirement works.

Has your company found novel ways to keep older techs engaged and involved in a way that’s mutually beneficial? Send me a note and let me know what you are doing!

Episode 277

In this episode of the Unscripted podcast, host Sarah Nicastro welcomes Alban Cambournac, VP of Consulting and Digital Services at Schneider Electric, to discuss the company’s digital journey and how it is taking its lessons learned and best practices and helping its customers achieve success as well. Alban shares his lessons learned in a global career, Schneider’s being named the most sustainable company of 2024 by TIME magazine, and what he thinks of all of the AI buzz.

With over 25 years of experience in digital power, buildings, and energy management, Alban is an experienced leader at Schneider Electric, driving growth and innovation. He leverages his strong background in product marketing, strategy, and engineering to lead the US Consulting and Digital Services team, delivering value-added solutions through connected services. Alban holds an MSEE from SUPELEC and an EMBA from Vanderbilt University.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

The Show Notes

Alban - 00:00:00:

I think Schneider Electric has always been a pioneer in the adoption of digital technologies in the domain of energy management and industrial automation. We're very focused in our strategy and applications areas. So really our future is actually focused on the adoption of these technologies and making sure that these are making an impact for every business and every people around the world, right? To make the most of the energy, our energy, to make the most of our resources.

Sarah - 00:00:35:

Hello, welcome to the UNSCRIPTED Podcast, where you'll find discussions on what matters most in service, leadership, and business transformation. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Let's jump in. Welcome to the UNSCRIPTED Podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Today, we're going to be taking an inside look into Schneider Electric's digital journey, talking about how to avoid common woes, amplify wins, and what that journey looks like, not only today, but into the future. I'm excited to welcome to the podcast today, Alban Cambournac, who is the Vice President of Consulting and Digital Services at Schneider. And notably, Schneider was just named this year by Time Magazine, the world's most sustainable company of 2024, which is an incredible acknowledgment. So welcome to the podcast, Alban, and thank you for being here.

Alban - 00:01:30:

Thank you for having me, Sarah. Hello to every listener.

Sarah - 00:01:33:

Yeah, and some of them may be familiar with you. You do your fair share of speaking at different industry events, and I've personally always enjoyed your sessions and looking forward to our chat today. So before we get into everything we have to cover, just tell everyone a little bit more about yourself and anything you'd like to share about your role, about Schneider, etc.

Alban - 00:01:55:

Yes, thank you so much. To get started, where is home for me? Home is in Nashville, Tennessee. Actually, I'm in our Nashville hub office. So I've lived in Nashville for about 25 years with my wife and my two sons who are now grown up and in college now. And I've worked with Schneider Electric for 25 years. I lead the consulting and digital services business. I was very, very fortunate 25 years ago when I moved to the U.S., to join a very fast-growing business focused on the digital transformation of electrical systems. And this is where my digital journey started. And I had a career both on the engineering side, but also on the global business development side with an opportunity really to travel all over the world and do business in over 50 countries. So really very, very interesting career. And on a more personal basis, I'm passionate about, a little bit some of the extreme sports a little bit, but I do quite a bit of skiing, scuba diving, started kite surfing.

Sarah - 00:02:51:

That's really fun. Yeah. The kite surfing part, I don't know. I don't know about that. I don't know. Now, I was going to say, we can see in your background that you're in Nashville, but you don't have that traditional Nashville twang. So can you just sort of talk a little bit about, I know you said you've been there 25 years, but where did your journey begin and how did you land in Nashville and end up calling that home?

Alban - 00:03:13:

Yes, yes, for sure. And this is my typical opening in keynotes that I do is I talk about the fact that I don't have that Nashville twang. Yeah, so my wife and I are actual first-generation immigrants to the U.S. we're from France originally. My hometown, for those who know a little bit about France, is Lyon. And I went to college in the Paris region. And my background, original background, is electrical engineering. The interesting story here was we were looking to move to China, actually, with my wife. And the Schneider Electric called me back and said there was a great opportunity for me in Nashville, Tennessee. And not knowing where Nashville, was on the map, we actually said, hey, this sounds like a great opportunity. And 25 years later, here we are. We never looked back and are very happy.

Sarah - 00:03:54:

That's wonderful. China, Nashville, a little different, but I'm glad that you're happy with where you ended up and have enjoyed making a home there. I've been to Nashville myself. It's a great city, but also a beautiful part of the country. When you think about doing a lot of the outdoor activities that you said you like to do, there's some great options nature-wise within a bit of a road trip from where you are. So that's really nice as well.

Alban - 00:04:18:

Absolutely.

Sarah - 00:04:19:

Done. Okay. So you mentioned that you've had the opportunity in your career to work through a lot of different countries. So you've been in a global role for about a decade. And so I'm wondering if you can just share any notable observations, I guess, one on how do you feel like having the opportunity to be in a global role has impacted you in your career and in your life? And then two, are there any observations when it comes to digitalization on commonalities, major differences? What comes to mind when you think about the global ecosystem?

Alban - 00:04:56:

Yeah, perfect. And it's a great question. And actually, I did not mention, but I spent four years in India. Very fortunate to be there with my family. And at the time, I had a chance to manage the whole Asia Pacific business development and spend actually the time in China that we wanted to spend among other countries. So this was great. One of the key benefits and understanding that I got from this experience is really an understanding of cross-cultural communications and then also how to collaborate in very diverse teams. And this is useful, of course, when you manage global businesses and global teams, but also just here in the U.S., we always work with very diverse teams. I like your question on commonalities, because what you hear often, and I hear it from business leaders or from marketers, is they think that there's like U.S., has unique needs that nobody else in the world has or China has unique needs that nobody else in the world has. And while this is true in some respect, the fact is that there are underlying common requirements that we see from the market, that we see from our customers that are pretty much global. And one of those is really around the trends around digitization that you're mentioning or sustainability as well. And the need for having reliable resilience type of business operations. All these are really common kind of themes. And you can pull a lot from these commonalities.

Sarah - 00:06:21:

Yeah, I love that because we talk a lot on this podcast about, I think we have far more in common than we do differences. Yes, there are those unique layers that are from region to region or industry to industry, but there are these common set of not only challenges, but objectives. And I just think as human beings, we have more in common than we do our differences. And I think it's really cool that you've had the opportunity throughout your career at Schneider to work in all of those different places because you learn so much. And I also think I mentioned to you when we were prepping to do this podcast together that I've had quite a few folks from Schneider on the podcast. Many of them have really good tenure with the company. And I always say that to me is evidence. Anytime someone has been... In a business today for 10, 15 plus years, it's indicative of an organization that is giving people the opportunity to grow and evolve and innovate within the business instead of feeling like they need to go somewhere else to do that. So I love that you've had those opportunities in your role. Okay. When we think about the digital landscape today, can you just start by talking a little bit about your view of what are the biggest opportunities?

Alban - 00:07:41:

Yeah, at Schneider Electric, we see two major trends around the world. And it's the need for electrification on one side and the need for digitization on the other side. And this is to help overcome some of the world's biggest challenges today around climate change, around energy transitions, where people, but also and especially businesses, need way more energy than they needed before. And there's also a global equilibrium shift that we've seen since COVID with really the need to simplify supply chains, have more local and regional kind of presence. And so these are really areas of key opportunities with the underlying also need to accelerate decarbonization. You see all these pledges for front end zero. And you mentioned the Time magazine like ranking as well. So these are very important. And we see this cross segments in the market. It's infrastructure, it's data centers, it's commercial buildings, even residentials. They're all experiencing the same disruption that is brought up by the need for more energy, but also for cleaner energy and more reliable energy. If I use one example, it's in where we see most of this is in the data center world, where the need for capacity that is linked to the explosion of generative AI and so forth is really leading to a big expansion in this area. Also, you can find in the news several. And we're building plants very close to this trend to make sure that we are building the right level of modular prefabricated type of infrastructure to help sustain this type of energy transition and doing this in a very standard way and also in a very digital way. So these require quite a bit of disruptive methods, if you were to be able to handle the uptime of these data centers, but also make them more energy efficient.

Sarah - 00:09:36:

I'm just thinking about when it comes to the customer perspective, what are some of the expectations that they have of Schneider as a digital business?

Alban - 00:09:48:

Yes, it's both in terms of being able to deliver, of course, on time these technologies, but it's also ensuring that we have a very strong foundation for cybersecurity, for data security. These are always top of mind when it comes to those expectations.

Sarah - 00:10:07:

It's interesting how within Schneider, there's this intersection of some of these major trends and themes, right? So we talked about the sustainability piece and the time recognition. We talked about electrification. We're talking about digitalization. And then obviously our focus is service as well. And there's a huge aspect of that really interesting and exciting time to be a part of the business. That being said, it's never just about the excitement or the opportunity, right? There's always hurdles and challenges that come along with modernizing the business, keeping pace with customer needs and with external situations and really having that culture of continual innovation. Can you talk a little bit about some of the challenges or hurdles and how you and the business are working through those?

Alban - 00:10:59:

Yeah, I think one of the biggest hurdles around digitization is having all the layers of a business organization, understand the importance of this digital transformation, not only at their core business process, because typically we see the first adoption of digital and AI is going to be around their core business process. But it's also looking at it from their building infrastructure or their plant infrastructure and looking at the needs here for digitization and giving the impact that they are looking for also from a sustainability standpoint. Some of these hurdles come often from a lack of information. So that's one thing that we work a lot on is on the thought leadership, of course, but it's also one to one with our customers around these conversations and then also addressing concerns about cybersecurity and data security.

Sarah - 00:11:52:

Yeah, that's probably a piece that at least in some of the events that we've attended together or that sort of thing, it isn't maybe talked about as much as it needs to be. Is that concern of in this digital world, if you want to be able to leverage the technologies that exist to provide uptime or to add value to the customer experience, it requires that connectivity and there can be some valid concerns in that regard. So how are you at Schneider kind of working through those concerns with your customers to put them at ease and to make sure that you can progress forward?

Alban - 00:12:30:

Yeah, and a lot of it sometimes is to draw parallels with their current business processes and what is the environment of cybersecurity and data security for their standard business processes. Everybody in their HR function, for example, is using some kind of a connected and online tool. And it's really showing, drawing those parallels and showing that pretty much from a building infrastructure basis, we're pretty much using the same type of technologies and approaches to cybersecurity and data security. This goes a long way in terms of addressing these concerns.

Sarah - 00:13:03:

Okay, that makes sense. Yes, it's a different application within their business, but it isn't necessarily a different world than what they're used to entirely.

Alban - 00:13:12:

Exactly.

Sarah - 00:13:13:

Okay. Now, what about the other thing that I want to talk a little bit about is the need we have as the digital transformation continues or becomes more and more refined or more and more intelligent to upskill employees to be able to navigate that world, embrace digital, and even the need for maybe different roles than we've had in the business before, that sort of thing. So when you think about that gap that can exist between how fast the digital world is moving and then how we need to keep up as businesses from a talent perspective, how do we keep pace with that? And what are some of the changes that you think companies need to consider?

Alban - 00:13:55:

Yeah, and this is a topic, we call it the digital gap. This is a topic I feel very passionate about. And because unfortunately, we really see that actually all generations, it's not a generational aspect, but all generations to some extent struggle with the digital transformation and the evolutions there. And sometimes it really starts with very simple challenges with efficiently using software applications or new technologies and new software technologies. It reminds me of very early on in my career, I was a software engineer and I read a book which was called The Inmates Are Running the Asylum by Alan Cooper. And it's a very interesting book kind of explaining why people are struggling so much with using software or using new technologies, because in the end, the people who have been designing those have not thought too much of the users they're looking at, right? And not everybody is an expert. There's a definite digital gap. And it comes also by sometimes having a lack of access to learning or even sometimes the motivation to learn about these critical new skills, be it digital, be it AI, be it cybersecurity. So one thing we do at Schneider Electric, for example, we're very fortunate to have excellent learning platforms that we use, both internal and external learning platforms, and where we put really programs towards digital upskilling. And now not only about... And all topics are digital, right? And we cover cybersecurity. Of course, we cover all the type of AI and other types of key, also ethical conducts. It's very important in this environment. So we have a full digital citizenship program and we call it Digital Boost. And we're really looking at what is our baseline of competencies here and what is the digital gap and then getting... And our goal is to get over 90% of all our employees worldwide to really undergo this digital upskilling. And this is actually something that we report on Schneider sustainability impact. So it's available externally as well. And it's part of that program to have the digital upskilling. So there's a real motivation and excitement that goes with this and is an example on how to address this digital gap.

Sarah - 00:16:07:

I was just thinking as you were explaining some of the things that program covers, there's, depending on the role within the business you're talking about, there's areas where an employee is really going to need to learn to use a new tool, right? They're going to need to have a fundamental change to how they perform their role. But then there are these other topics that they might not need to be personally firsthand involvement in, but they need to have an acumen about. So cybersecurity, you might have, if we just think about a field service engineer, they might not be directly involved in anything related to how Schneider puts its cybersecurity practices in place and all of that. But if they're on site and a customer says, but what are you doing from a cybersecurity perspective? And they just say, I mean, that's not going to give the impression you want to give of having at least that baseline knowledge and that acumen to be able to understand. The concepts and understand the approach, even if it is outside of their core role. So I think that whole idea of providing actual upskilling in skill where it's needed, but also providing context and knowledge beyond that person's role is really important to help them understand that bigger picture and to help them engage appropriately with customers as well.

Alban - 00:17:30:

And for us, it's an essential knowledge for everybody in the company. And it includes our field service people. It also includes our executives, right? We call it essentials training. Everybody goes through this every year with a very big focus around this topic.

Sarah - 00:17:47:

Yeah. Now, are there any roles that you see on the rise that as the business evolves throughout its digital journey, are there new roles that are becoming more prominent or that you're thinking about how the business will need to hire for those things, etc.?

Alban - 00:18:04:

The more we have roles at the intersection of the business application, but also a very strong understanding of the IT environment. And it's able to bring these two elements together is an area that we're looking for. Connectivity, cybersecurity on one side, and then also data analytics and AI on the other side. These are some of the two critical type of roles that for our digital connected services, we're really looking to strengthen.

Sarah - 00:18:34:

Yeah, you didn't necessarily say it this way, but just to sort of paraphrase, you made mention of the fact that digital transformation is not just an IT initiative. It's a business initiative, right? And so to your point, we have to bring those worlds together in a way that everyone can get on the same page and find the path to what's most valuable, etc. So that makes sense. Okay, so when you think of the big wins at Schneider, so stories of connected customers that you feel the company has executed very well, what stands out from those stories in terms of is there a common through line or is there a common approach? Like what helps take all of these things we're talking about conceptually and make it a success in reality?

Alban - 00:19:28:

Yes, at Schneider Electric and in our business, we manage millions of assets worldwide with connected customers in the U.S. and in the rest of the world. There's a few common elements to winning and to having a great relationship. And first, it comes from really having a known sponsor in our customer organization who's really getting it and is able to transmit this vision and is helping the digital transformation at our customer company. The second one, and we mentioned it, is really having both the business contact and business relationship, but also the buy-in and working very closely with the IT department. So that both on the business side and the IT side, we have a strong understanding of what is the vision, what are we trying to achieve. And when you have this recipe of sponsorship and then putting at the same table the business and the IT, then you are able to... Overcome those hurdles that we talked about. And now you are able to really have some very, very nice stories. And for us, it's all about ensuring reliability and resilience of an infrastructure. And so we have plenty of success stories there where we have remote engineers, remote agents looking and identifying changes in the patterns and behaviors of, for example, an electrical system. And it's able to quickly contact the facility and the customer and say, hey, we have noticed a change. And we're able to dispatch, for example, our field service representatives before it becomes an issue. And an issue can be a power outage, which causes big business impact and lost revenue. But it can be worse and it can some situations can lead to fire and all this, with much bigger consequences there. So really, we have plenty of stories from these assets that we manage around the world of being able to really anticipate and then predict some type of behaviors and address these concerns.

Sarah - 00:21:27:

Yeah, yeah. No, that's great. And I think understanding what that recipe looks like for success in any business is really important to being able to not only replicate it, but recreate it as circumstances change in the technology that is accessible or what the customer needs are, etc. When we hear stories of digital gone wrong, I've heard plenty of these at some of the events we've both been at. Do you feel like there are any common missteps or mistakes that companies are making today with the approach they're taking to digital transformation?

Alban - 00:22:06:

Yeah, you can pretty much take the opposite of the win characteristic I just mentioned. And things go wrong typically when there's a lack of understanding and a lack of adoption of those digital technologies, taking too much of a weight attitude, which can have some consequences, and also the lack of planning around IT and cybersecurity. So that's where things can go wrong a little bit. And I think one story I had mentioned in one of my keynotes was the story we have of working with a facility manager in Mexico and introducing these technologies to be able to do continuous type of thermal monitoring, for example, where you monitor the temperature of equipment or electrical infrastructure. And unfortunately, that site didn't adopt the technology fast enough. And there was a big event, right, where with power outages and major business revenue loss and all this, and really this resulted, I mean, just the business, the power outage and not having the revenue, but also it cost a job to this facility manager and for not having adopted and having the technology in place to be able to prevent this type of things from happening, that's areas where taking a wait and see type of attitude can be problematic versus the success stories we talked about earlier.

Sarah - 00:23:22:

Yeah. No, it's interesting the idea of, I totally agree with you, the wait and see approach can be detrimental. At the same time, the other thing I see companies do is they want to race so quickly to get to the most sophisticated use cases of the technology without getting some of the fundamentals in place. And that can be problematic as well. And I think a lot of that stems from the point you brought up, which is, are the stakeholders aligned? Is everyone on the same page about what the digital journey needs to look like and how the company is going to achieve those objectives? Because if we're looking at it as just an IT initiative, it's going to fail. We have to be thinking about it as that overall view.

Alban - 00:24:06:

Can we see, if I can complement what you're saying, we really work on our relationship with our customers to really be those trusted partners, right? And we go over this setting up these foundations to be able to have success in the adoption of these technologies.

Sarah - 00:24:22:

Yeah, for sure. Now, one of the areas I think companies are either racing ahead to or rolling their eyes at is AI. It's coming up everywhere, headlines, podcasts, events, a lot of hype. I'm curious your perspective on the topic of AI and is it worthy of all the buzz? Is it overhyped in any way? What is your take?

Alban - 00:24:45:

Yeah, and as anybody, I'm sure, you know, I'm spending a lot of time these days learning more about AI and also like using it on a daily basis pretty much. It's an interesting question. I would draw maybe a parallel and maybe I'm going to date myself here, but to the internet, right? End of the 1990s, you had a foundation, a technical foundation, right, of the emergence of the Internet and all this. And a lot of hype around all the applications that you could have on this. And there were a lot of startup companies and all this and a few ended up thriving and then but many ended up not continuing. And I think it's sort of the same thing with AI, right? You have a baseline of technology and the disruption that this technology is bringing to the market. And then on top of that very sound foundation that is here to stay, of course, you have a lot of different experiments of different startups applying AI to different areas. And then figuring out what is going to work and what is not going to work. So I think we're going to see a little bit of this, but it's a revolution. It's a foundational technological that change that just like the Internet is going to be the basis for every transactions in the future.

Sarah - 00:25:57:

Yeah, no, that makes sense. I agree. So when you think about what the next five years might hold, what do you envision for Schneider's digital journey?

Alban - 00:26:07:

This has been really some of the great experiences that I've had, like joining Schneider Electric 25 years ago. And I think Schneider Electric has always been a pioneer in the adoption of digital technologies in the domain of energy management and industrial automation. We're very focused in our strategy and applications areas. So really, our future is actually focused on the adoption of these technologies and making sure that these are making an impact for every business and every people around the world. To make the most of the energy, our energy, to make the most of our resources. That's what we're very excited about. And that's why I'm very excited about to work at Schneider Electric and with our customers to really leverage digital AI applied to energy management, applied to industrial automation and improving sustainability and efficiency overall.

Sarah - 00:26:59:

And you have that TIME magazine recognition that you have to uphold and continue to defend. So that's important work to do, though. And you can feel good about coming to work every day and making an impact.

Alban - 00:27:11:

A lot of it comes from doing this inside Schneider Electric and applying these principles of sustainability inside Schneider Electric, but also helping our customers and helping the societies apply the same things that we're also applying internally. So it's kind of this combination of things that makes Schneider Electric pretty unique.

Sarah - 00:27:31:

Yeah, yeah. 25 years with the company, and we talked about some of the different roles that you've held, a lot of the different places that you've had the opportunity to work. What would you say is the biggest lesson you've learned over your career thus far?

Alban - 00:27:48:

Yeah, and actually our conversation around the adoption, right, of digital technology and the wait and see. I think one of my biggest carolists and maybe a summarize in a quote I always use from Michael Jordan. He says, some people want it to happen. Some people wish it would happen. And then others make it happen. You always want to be on the side of those who make it happen and building a reputation for service excellence while forking the talk. So that's really has been the focus of my career is to really understand what people wish or want to happen. And then really applying myself and my teams and my businesses to making these strategies and visions happen. Now, I have also a more personal example is my wife and I have learned to leverage the power of two. So we've led parallel careers our entire life. Together, we've accumulated like 50 years of professional career. And so we have supported each other through the ups and downs of having two, ever challenging roles and also building a family. So that's another aspect of more personal of the career lessons.

Sarah - 00:28:51:

The power of two. I like that. Yeah. As someone who is still in the thick of it, and my kids are almost eight and nine right now. So it's we're still doing all of that. And you definitely need that support. It makes a huge difference.

Alban - 00:29:03:

Absolutely.

Sarah - 00:29:05:

Alban, thank you so much for coming on and sharing. I really like the Michael Jordan quote, and I think it is really important today to walk the talk, like you said. There's always going to be challenges and hurdles, but the companies that use those as excuses, consciously or subconsciously, to stand still, are very, very quickly falling critically behind. So there's ever more reason to take action, like you said, and work through the challenges and figure it out. So I love that perspective and appreciate you coming on and sharing.

Alban - 00:29:39:

No, and really appreciate our conversation. And thanks again for having me. And I really love your podcast. So congratulations on running a very, very successful podcast.

Sarah - 00:29:49:

Thank you so much. I appreciate it. And it was a pleasure. You can find more by visiting the home of the UNSCRIPTED podcast at www.futureoffieldservice.com. The podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more at ifs.com. As always, thank you for listening.

I live about 30 miles from the beautiful Chautauqua Institution in New York, yet somehow my first visit was just this summer. The Chautauqua Institution is a 150-year-old nonprofit education center and resort that serves as a catalyst for creative exploration, educational growth, relaxation and recreation. Each summer the Institution brings to its campus a stellar lineup of guest speakers and last month I had the opportunity to go hear a talk on AI given by Joanna Stern.

Emmy Award-winning Stern is the Sr. Personal Technology Journalist at the Wall Street Journal. She’s interviewed countless tech leaders and is well versed on today’s trends and tomorrow’s promises. She began her session with a bit of a farce – a video clip of her apologizing for not being able to deliver her talk live. As the audience grumbled, she walked out on stage and shared that the video was entirely AI-generated.

After talking about both the upsides and risks of AI, Joanna was asked by an audience member whether she feels the upsides of AI outweigh the risks. She took a long pause before answering, which surprised me. Then said, “Tough. Yes – it’s the natural evolution of technology. Humans have persevered through others – like the smartphone, which has its own positives and negatives. But we do need to be thinking about the potential negative consequences.”

Joanna began her talk with an overview of AI types and recent advancements, sharing examples of the sophisticated capabilities that have been developed particularly with GenAI. She shared some anecdotes from her interviews, such as Microsoft CEO Satya Nadella stating that his view is, “AI will help us do our jobs better, reducing drudgery and lowering barriers to knowledge work, even creating more jobs.”

Nadella’s points about reducing drudgery and lowering the barriers to knowledge work are ones that hold tremendous promise and could really positively impact service organizations. She also shared the views of Sam Altman, CEO of OpenAI, who said “I’m not scared of jobs going away; I think it’s good. But we need to contend with the speed of which this will happen. Humans will keep finding things to do.”

I feel less warm fuzzies about Altman’s statement, in part because of course the CEO of OpenAI isn’t going to go on record saying he fears how the technology will take jobs. That said, I do think there’s some truth to the point he’s making – if AI is used appropriately, yes it will automate some work – but it makes room for humans to deliver their irreplaceable value elsewhere.

The Potential Dark Side of AI

Joanna readily stated that “We are at a phase where AI doesn’t live up to its hype – but we’re moving fast.” And this is both good and, potentially, bad. She explained that where we are today aligns with the statements made by Nadella and Altman, but where we are going (AG1) becomes murkier. She summarized for the audience a number of AI risks, including:

Hallucinations
The lack of regulations and laws
The need to indicate if something is AI-generated
How AI-generated audio has fooled a bank
How AI has been used to clone presidential candidates and mislead voters
The unknown impact AI will have on our children
The resource constraint being created by the exponential growth of AI
Uncertainty on how to protect IP
Questions around how to keep AI ethical
How AI can perpetuate social ills
The use of synthetic data

She even said at one point that she didn’t mean for the session to cause fear or seem negative. While she is excited about what AI can do today and the potential it holds for tomorrow, she wants to illustrate the need to take both the benefits and the risks seriously. As we determine how best to apply this technology, and when – and when not – to trust it, we should be “thoughtful stewards” of its use, and I think it’s a very important reminder.

Joanna was asked by another audience member what she feels makes us human, to which she responded “creativity.” I think my answer would be empathy, which we should apply as we forge our path of AI. What would your answer be?

Episode 275

In a session from Future of Field Service Live in Cologne, Germany, host Sarah Nicastro talks with Jelle Coppens, Product Domain Expert of Service and Repair at Electrolux, about how the company is working smarter to maximize the impact of its workforce.

Jelle has been with Electrolux for six years, starting as a resource planner for Electrolux Belgium and quickly becoming involved in the company's digital transformation. His expertise led him to join a project enhancing technical solutions across Belgium, the Netherlands, Luxembourg, and Denmark.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

Episode Highlights:

[04:04] - Before adopting a new technology, the biggest pain points for Electrolux were inefficiencies and lack of visibility in field operations. Jelle and his team planned technician schedules but couldn't track progress or respond to cancellations effectively, leading to wasted time and frustrated staff. By implementing the IFS service management solution, they connected their systems, improved resource planning, and minimized travel time, allowing technicians to focus on their strengths.
[15:36] - Implementing the IFS PSO (Planning and Scheduling Optimization) allowed Electrolux to significantly reduce idle time and increase productivity. This system integrates with the company's FSM app, giving resource planners real-time visibility into technician progress. When cancellations happen, Jelle and his team have streamlined the process to fill gaps quickly, ensuring efficient scheduling. Moreover, a dedicated gap-filling team has boosted visit rates by 8% in just a year.
[28:13] - Maximizing resource utilization offers exciting potential through creative solutions like online training platforms and stock-taking tools. By encouraging technicians to use idle time for short refresher courses or inventory checks, businesses can enhance efficiency and productivity. Exploring and sharing best practices with other companies can reveal even more opportunities to optimize and make the most of every resource.

On a recent trip to Texas, I made plans to stop and catch up with James Mylett, SVP U.S. Digital Buildings at Schneider Electric. I first met James over a decade ago when I interviewed him for the cover of Field Technologies magazine and I’ve since admired his demeanor, his open mindedness, and I always enjoy talking with him about how the world of service is evolving. He has a reputation for his impactful leadership, and we discussed his views on the demands of modern leadership in a two-part podcast, which you can find here and here.

When I arrived at Schneider’s Dallas Hub, James greeted me at the door with a smile and I got checked in. We stopped to get a drink in the common area and an employee visiting from California excitedly approached James and began “talking shop,” not realizing at first that I wasn’t another employee. The three of us chatted for a bit, James happy to engage and never once making her feel rushed. I was thinking about how they say that the best conversations happen around the water cooler and how, as employees walked by and waved to James, he must have many interactions just like this.

After we finished talking with her, we did a quick tour of the facility which was remodeled during Covid and is modern with a fun Texas energy. As we walked over to sit down at a table and talk, I asked James if his office was on the second floor. He responded, “Oh, I don’t have an office.” He travels on a frequent basis, visiting other offices across the country and well as partners and customers – but when he is in Dallas, he opts to set up his workspace in the common area and uses a conference room when he needs privacy for a call or a meeting. He explained that he much prefers being out in the open where he has the opportunity to have those casual catch ups and keep up on the pulse of the working environment.

Now in retrospect, I’m not at all surprised. But in that moment, I was thinking – an SVP in a massive company, and no corner office? If not unheard of, certainly uncommon.

Breaking Down Walls

So, what’s better than an open-door policy? Perhaps a no door policy! Forgoing the corner office is truly representative of James’s approach. He doesn’t have an ego to feed, feel the need to take up space based on his position, or have the urge to demonstrate any sort of power. He would rather be in the midst of it all not only because I think he genuinely enjoys it, but because he knows staying closely in tune with what’s going on with his employees is the best way to be effective in his role.

He shared with me that in the company’s most recent employee engagement assessment, the Dallas Hub had the highest scores, and I’m not at all surprised. This isn’t to say that is entirely attributed to James, but I know he plays an important role.

I share this for other leaders as food for thought around what we need more of in service (and beyond). There are still plenty of companies with leaders who sit in those corner offices, detached from the realities of the frontline workforce and enamored with their positions of power – and those companies are quickly falling behind, because the culture that creates is untenable in today’s talent landscape. Now I’m not suggesting there’s anything wrong with a leader having an office, or that everyone should move themselves out of theirs. My point is the mentality – that’s what matters.

We need more leaders with less ego and more of a mind to serve. We need more leaders who focus on diversity and inclusion not because they know it’s “important” but because they believe it is imperative to their organization’s success. We need more leaders who make employees feel valued, respected, and heard – in big ways and small. We need more leaders who are more interested in listening than in talking. We need more leaders who are more invested in helping build future leaders than they are in protecting their own value. We need more leaders who realize their role today isn’t to know it all, but to curate teams of talent that compliment one another and then allow that talent to be creative, to weigh in, and to make a difference. We need more leaders who are looking around them to see who they can lift up rather than looking in the mirror at their own accomplishments.

Episode 275

In this episode of the Unscripted podcast, host Sarah Nicastro talks with Clinten van der Merwe, SVP and Head of Global Service and Project Management at TOMRA Recycling, about moving away from the “aftermarket as an afterthought” mentality, his North Star process, and the importance of storytelling in creative influence. This session was recorded at Future of Field Service Live in Cologne.

Clinten is a well-established Senior Service Management and Leadership Professional with vast global experience leading significant business transformation and optimization initiatives. He excels in addressing complex business challenges and implementing process and cultural changes to enhance organizational effectiveness. Throughout his career, Clinten has contributed to companies like Rapiscan Systems, Alubat Middle East, Multi Glass and Mirror, and Glass South Africa.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

Full Show Notes

Sarah: Hello, welcome to the UNSCRIPTED Podcast, where you'll find discussions on what matters most in service, leadership, and business transformation. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Let's jump in. So before we get into it, I know we did our brief introductions, but tell everyone a little bit more about yourself, the business, whatever you want to share.

Clinten: Just easy to understand. I'm Clinten. I'm South African, and it's not a Dutch surname, it's an Afrikaans surname. So born in South Africa, grew up educated. Straight after school, I thought the best career for me would be in accounting. So I started accounting and then found out it's pretty boring and then started looking and then obviously entering the service industry. Worked in various industries from auto glass right through to building glass applications, architectural, then in aerospace, where I worked for quite a number of years in aerospace and defense industry. And back in 2016, moving up to Germany, where I currently reside with my family and now working for TOMRA. Joined TOMRA Recycling just a little bit two years ago. Very exciting industry to be in. TOMRA is a Norwegian company, provide different types of applications. It's on a collection side, for the ones of you that live in Germany or Netherlands, when you take your fund back to the shopping centers, those machines are coming from our collection division. We are on the recycling side. We actually provide sensor-based NIR technology type equipment that waste management companies use to sort different types of plastics, paper, which is quite trendy at the moment, especially from sustainability point of view. But also a very fast-growing type of industry that we see, especially due to regulate changes and sustainability is a major priority for a lot of corporations at the current moment.

Sarah: Okay. Just to frame our conversation for today, we spoke this morning about the move to outcomes-based service. You and I talked about the concept of aftermarket as an afterthought. That tends to be true in a lot of organizations where they still use that terminology of aftermarket service. A lot of times, aftermarket and afterthought can be synonyms. And for TOMRA, where are you at in that journey? And how are you thinking about, as a business, how are you viewing and thinking about service?

Clinten: Maybe I'll go back. I think a lot of us know in the 90s, they actually said, there's no place for field service going forward. Just due to the fact that people will manufacture stuff, they'll throw it away, buy a new one, manufacture, throw away. Guess what? It's actually been completely the opposite. And I think that's what's making it exciting. Although a lot of companies are still stuck in that traditional way of thinking. The mindset is still traditional, the culture is still set up in such a way that it's not really driving that change. We're still looking at processes that are still designed for just call Mr. Or Mrs. Fix-It, I'll go fix it, and everything goes well. When I joined TOMRA, because of the growth of the industry, I remember my EVP said to me during the, because I asked him, where do you want me to focus on first? And the first focus was catching up because the market was growing so fast. It was selling so many units and service took too long to actually transform. When I started, the first thing I started doing was looking at our organization and looking at how do we actually get a compelling vision and mission that we can design within the organization that looks sexy, that looks accommodating, that we can bring service more to the forefront. I got my team together. Some of my team members are here today as well. Got the team together and we started hammering it out. What does a mission look like? What does our customers want? What does the organization want? How do we embed everything within our DNA? Like, how do we do this? And this is why we started then with our mission, which is really a good tool for you to use as well internally and driving that mindset change of it's not aftermarket, afterthought. Service should be on the forefront of driving everything because we are involved in every facet of a business, although we are very complex. So if you speak to a CEO or CFO, they don't want to understand because it's too complex. So how do we actually change that mindset of making it a little bit more in bite-size? Not be too detailed or in the weeds, daily weeds, but really taking that back to your organization and then sharing that and also sharing the good news of what service really means.

Sarah: Yeah. And I think part of that complexity that people don't necessarily want to understand is that it's intangible. It's a lot easier to understand the products, the line items. It's a lot harder to understand the intangible value of service and everything that can represent. When you came in and you started trying to set the strategic vision, what were the biggest hurdles you faced when it comes to the legacy mentality or culture?

Clinten: Changing that mindset, I think, was in some cases a culture shock for different parts of the organization. What is really nice about service, and I think you all can resonate very well on that, is the fact that we are quite resilient and we're quite adaptable to change. Service is the easy one to convince. The most more difficult is that's upper-level management, your sales teams, your operation teams, your R&D teams, because there comes the tricky part. And you're 100% right. It is a complex organization. But if I look at 2019 BC, before Corona, companies didn't really think of service in such a way as a real revenue driver and as the unique selling point for your products. And when COVID happened, actually, companies then started switching around. And I know one of the companies before this total service revenue was only 30% of their total annual revenue. When COVID hit, it became 55% of annual revenue. Suddenly, the CEO started now understanding what service means and why service is very important, especially for a sustainable business platform. And I think this is really the tricky point. For me, it was more of how do we design that strategy? How do we break it down, you said, in smaller pieces that is understandable for the organization? Because if you come up with a big area, you are going to lose your audience. This is where we looked at, this is our strategy that we want to achieve over five years. And I'll get to my 10-year aspirations. And how did we break that down to come into what is our strategic priorities for this year? Small five, maximum five strategic priorities, which each of my direct report owns. And I have cross-functional support to drive that. And through that, we actually have a win situation. And we tick the box. Great. This is now in. We fixed the baseline in certain areas. Now we can grow and develop. Next year, we get together. We start doing the next strategic for that next second year to build further. And I think this is really important. Don't be too far. Otherwise, you lose the audience.

Sarah: Yeah. When we chatted, Clinten. you said when it comes to setting strategy, you want to think about what is aggressive, but attainable, inspiring, but relatable. Can you talk a little bit about looking at your remit through that frame and any advice you have on what strategy setting works that meets those criteria? Like, how do you achieve those objectives when you're laying something out? Obviously, you're talking about one year at a time, five things max. Any other advice for making it? Aggressive, but attainable, inspiring, but relatable.

Clinten: Again, a lot of the information that we get from customers are filtering through from our service organizations. A field service engineer sees a customer seven times more than a salesperson in a year timeframe. It's a known fact. And this information needs to come back to the organization. You need that information to build that strategy on where the areas are. Also need to fully understand where are your weaknesses. And weaknesses is a fantastic thing. I think in a previous service event, somebody brought up that, how will you improve if you don't know where you are going wrong? And that's really important because using that information, put the improvements in place and then convincing customers that things are working and working with those customers. Once your customer is your best speaking partner for the rest of the organization, when there's trade shows, I can share that we had a previous trade show and we only had good comments with what is happening in service and they speak to all, at all levels of the organization, so these customer feedback is absolutely important, and that really helps you to get that strategy in place and then get buy-in from others. Look, there's something happening within service that actually places you a little bit more on the forefront. And it helps them with the influencing. And it also helps me now to, as I said, quite an aggressive timeline for my 2035 vision. It helps me already to influence our board on what is going to be our investment needed over the next 10 years to reach that. And again, not just coming and say, I need 20 million investment in service. It's really just, listen, next year, maybe we have a million. The year after that, just chipping away at it. And then using that, as you said, as your business case starts growing.

Sarah: You might know you want 20 million over the course of however long, but you're not putting that all out there at one time. You're making it more digestible by having your bigger strategy, but sharing in a more pragmatic manner. I love the point you made about weaknesses. I always say the only difference between, challenge and opportunity is perception. And I think the same is, could be said between weaknesses and growth, right? If you can understand where you're weak, it gives you the opportunity to grow and be better. If you turn a blind eye to those weaknesses, you don't have that opportunity to improve and to evolve.

Clinten: Just to add to that, Sarah, the thing for me is, we all know SWOT analysis. I turn around and call it a toes analysis, which means rather focus on the threats as well as the weaknesses than on your strengths is important. You need to keep that as a baseline. Your opportunities will come at the end of the day, but really focus on the TO area, because that for me is really where it will help. What is the threats coming in from the market? And especially what I do quite often is, I do quite a bit of benchmarking, looking at benchmarking reports from different service industries, which really help you to see into the future what is coming. And we know there's a wave of skill shortages, people not, you can't find skills anymore. I mean, there's a lot of, everybody of us here today probably have field service roles open that we can't fill. In some cases, more than a year open. And this is threat that's coming to us as service industry. But we, instead of us just going, trying to hammer out the traditional way of let's get hiring, let's pay people more, let's do this more. Instead, what is it that we're going to do to really adapt to this? Because if the skills are not there in 10 years, you're going to be selling the machine, but you're not going to get the service. And just imagine you that are also a customer, if you buy a car, you best car on the market, want to pay top dollar, but you're unable to get a service technician to fix the thing for you. This is something that keeps me awake at night.

Sarah: Can you talk about your North Star process and the importance of that?

Clinten: Our industry is extremely fast growing, fast paced, as I mentioned before. And it's really a fantastic industry to be in. We talk with a lot of people, sustainability is important. Having circularity built in, in everything we use is extremely important. Although if you get onto the ground level where our people work, where our customers work, it's filtering through the waste that we generate every single day. Then it's not that sexy anymore, right? Although you're doing a fantastic job, you're doing a great job in terms of helping customers to sort through, turning that waste into a value for them, as well as building in that circularity. So it's fantastic. However, skill sets as well as people are lacking. And how I looked at this is we need to change. Because even we run a lot of university events where we want to attract new talent. And we speak to people. First, people, when I come to your field service, first question, can I work flexible work hours? A hundred percent. And it's, yeah, you can. But if you are three weeks in a field sorting out a customer site, you can't come home two days after that and tell the customer we'll come back again in three days time. It's not sustainable. But this is the viewpoint. And that made me think of how do we adapt rather than adapting to that? So I use the phrase always. How do I make sure that I have a field service engineer, to support the industry 24 by 7, working at their own flexible time, sitting in a coffee shop with their flip flops on fixing a machine? How do we get to that? And that's where I set the North Star. Our North Star vision is really related to how can we make things more sustainable for service? How can we make things more sustainable for our customers? Also giving a bit more leverage to our customers that we are a 24/7 organization, but not be able to parachute an FSE every five minutes onto a site because skill sets are not there or the people will not be there. So this is where we set the strategy that by 2035 will be fully digital, which is very ambitious. I know. And when I had that conversation and I shared that with our sales team, the eyes went, but as I mentioned before, the challenge is that we are going to have these, we don't want to sit in 10 years time selling machines, but unable to support our customer.

Sarah: Yeah. And you have to think big going back to the title of the session and some of what I spoke about this morning, if you are only focusing on incremental improvement, you're not going to be where you need to be 10 years from now. How would you describe the role and importance of storytelling in your process of setting the vision and then creating the influence to sort of get people on board with that vision and help you ultimately execute?

Clinten: Maybe a question, when you have customer, let's say customer compliance, normally it's the rooftop every time it comes through right up to the CEO level sometimes. But how many of us do share good customer comments coming back for that CEO? That's where it starts already. Start influencing there at your senior leadership team, sharing the good news. And I can tell you it's turned around already that we have about more than five good compliments come through. We have maybe one escalation now that gets top level. Escalations will happen. In any organization, it will happen. Something will go wrong. But we should not have that negativity towards what service need to fix this. And this mindset, I had to change for myself because in my previous organization, actually, I had some skip level discussions with some of our senior VPs. And I went to our HR VP and we asked her, what do you think of service? Straight question. And the question of the report back was, I think it's our get out of jail free card. That's really compelling to tell that to your people that you are only here to get the company out of sticky situations. That's not what service should be. We're not a get-out-of-jail-free card. We should be really in the forefront of using that success stories that we have and using that influencing skills and market ourselves. Also, what I've seen is we are all weak and I count myself in. I don't have marketing skills. I think I should have done an MBA on marketing. I should have because we need to market ourselves much better. And this is something that I'm adapting to at the moment is looking at how can we get marketing in place. And I know larger organizations already had a transition to have marketing individuals, service marketing already embedded within their service. But I think this is really also a key point in terms of how do you develop? How do you put service aldi? Because I can tell you in future, we will see that capital investments will become more scarcer. And you're going to see as a service will be taking a much more forefront because we see that in our organization. If you have as in as a service, you actually have more control over that product because then you look at sustainability. How can you get some of the components back? Do refurbishment on it. Send it back in, which lowers your costs, which helps the environment and which drives a lot of areas of modularity as well as if you design something that's modular, you don't need to send somebody there to fix it. Ask the customer to plug and play, send the old one back. You have a repair center. That's the type of thinking that you need to think. But it's one of the things that we do in TOMRA very well is our service department is embedded from gate zero process in our product planning, which is extremely important that you have a service individual there that can ask to keep on reminding people. How would you think we need to service that? Just questions like this so that you actually can start designing equipment that's serviceable and sustainable for the future. And it can actually help you drive some of that strategy, so.

Sarah: I think the point you make about marketing is really interesting and important because going back to the point about storytelling. So I think storytelling is a really important skill, not only in marketing, but especially in marketing. But when you think about how this applies to service, there's a few different facets. So one is related to what you're talking about in terms of sharing those good stories along with the escalations, which, as you mentioned, are going to happen because you want to tell a more accurate story of what service means to the business. It isn't just the problems. It isn't just the get-out-of-jail-free card. It's all of these good things as well. That's how you end up telling the story of the potential and the possibility and the growth opportunity, etc. There's this storytelling component that you as a function have to do upward to get the investment you need, etc. Then there's the storytelling aspect to the market, to the customers, probably where you're thinking about the marketing. And this is a really big challenge in this space because we tend to not have a marketing function. So we go to market in internal language. I will never forget a conversation I had with a gentleman a few years ago. He was so frustrated and I felt for him so much. But he was saying, we've invested in IoT, but none of our customers want to buy it. Because they're going to market saying we've invested in IoT and here's why you should care. The customer doesn't care. They're taking their internal language and trying to sell it externally. And it's a failure every time. It's the same thing. It's just, again, flipping the narrative. You need to be able to think about, here's what we're doing internally, which we have to educate ourselves on. But what that means to our customers externally is what we need to go to market with. And then you have storytelling from the perspective of the talent landscape. How are you telling the story of what it means to work for your business today and in the future? How are you creating a compelling story that people who don't know what field service is, will want to buy into and become a part of? So it is an incredibly important skill. And I think your point about marketing is a good one because there's a lot of different applications for that skill set to help leverage the different places you need to be telling those stories, not just with the customers, but beyond that.

Clinten: And Sarah, that's the biggest killer for any strategy or losing gravitas in a business is once you fail. Once a customer says, service is presenting something, it means nothing to me as a customer. And that negativity then goes back to the organization again. Then you start losing that innovation, especially in service, where you want actually people to be more innovative.

Sarah: Yeah. Going back to your big vision for 2035, I want to break this out into a couple components. So you mentioned that you believe as a service is going to be the future for TOMRA. And I just want to kind of reinforce some of the things that you touched on in terms of how you think about your... I can't remember how you worded it, but your technician sitting in the coffee shop and flip-flops doing their work, right? I'm sure for some people that sounds far-fetched, but it isn't necessarily, right? And so I think this idea of as a service, right, maintaining ownership. The other benefit of that, if you remember what I spoke about this morning is, if you maintain ownership of those assets, you avoid the issue with not being physically on site to do service, right? Because at that point, when you're maintaining that ownership, it doesn't matter how you're guaranteeing the uptime or doing what needs to be done. The customer is paying you for the uptime, not the how of it, right? A lot of times, it's when we're trying to implement some of these technologies that allow for that 2035 vision for the technician, under a more traditional relationship, then we start to run into some barriers. So anything else you would say you're thinking about that is going to be key to making that 2035 vision come to life?

Clinten: Yeah, this is really the trick question. How do we get there? We are really looking at what is our customers' challenge and pain points today. And our customers are faced with similar issues. They also have engineering staff on site. They also have a churn of staff coming in, coming out. Skills are dropping. And I know, speaking to customers, they're looking at the future of having fully autonomous waste management plants. Just imagine everything dropped off, everything runs through. Somebody sits at home with a mobile phone just looking at the production process. And that's how we want to look at it. Because it is going to be a challenge to have the tangible. They pay, break and fix. Somebody arrives, speaks to the customer and replace that with the intangible of you actually having that proactive support that can actually give a heads up to somebody that something will go wrong and then obviously commercialize this. And this is part of our incremental steps that we are going to bring in. We're already looking at there are some more tougher regions. We're due to safety concerns, which you don't want to send people. And this is actually an ideal area for us to start using this as a proof of concept for us and start building this out over the next 10 years. But I think it's really just using that information coming in. But you need to have the right digital tools and you need to have the right processes in place. A lot of areas, making sure that you have a lot of automation in your processes. If you don't have that basics grant work done, any tool will fail. Any application that you will implement will fail. So that's basically where we are focusing on making it more standardized, easier to adapt, not over killing it, because I also speak to a lot of organizations where they have every tool under the sun, every applications, but nothing speaks to each other. So I don't know what's worse, not having it or having it. But this is where you really need to be careful of using something very quickly. Go too big, too fast. But at the same token is really just using the customer experience to drive some of this. And again, who's going to stand against, you know, an organization if customer needs something and you can provide that solution to them.

Sarah: What's interesting, Clinten, and something you said made me think of this. So you were talking about the difference in this world where in a break fix environment, everything's very visible. The technician shows up to fix what's wrong. They interact with the people, they leave. I don't think that's what a customer wants. They want the outcome. Right. But we're very accustomed to that physical experience. Okay. So one of the things that's interesting about the shift to outcomes for me is we talk a lot about like the customer wants ease. They want simplicity. They want peace of mind. They want the outcome. But they don't only want that. Right. Because the outcome is intangible and invisible. Really, if it's just always there, it's just always happening. So they actually want the outcome and they also want insights into how the outcome is achieved. So it comes back to storytelling in the sense of as you work toward that 2035 vision. You need to be thinking about how do we achieve the outcome in this new way of working and this new customer relationship. But how do we use storytelling to show the customer the value that we're ensuring, protecting, providing. Even though they don't see us doing it. Because they're not going to want to pay you if they don't have that context. They want the context. It just needs to be very simple and it needs to be in their terms. So we avoided X amount of downtime through this technology. We eliminated the need for an onsite repair through this, right? And understanding to your part earlier, what's the cost associated with that to them? And how can you then illustrate the value you're providing their business, even though they're not seeing you doing it? It's really interesting to me that we have to think not just about our ability to provide the outcome, but our capability to showcase in very simple value-oriented terms, how we've done that. So the customers understand where their investment is going.

Clinten: So in the aerospace defense industry, customers there were very much about uptime. So we had to sign up to service level agreement with 99% uptime availability, 15 minutes response, one five-minute response and a three-hour repair time. That's how critical it was to them. Just because and they only pay for throughput, throughput through the machine, how quickly and how is the safest way they could get a check-in luggage onto an airplane identified, fully secure. And that was the outcome that was there. Although it had the challenges where you couldn't connect to an airport remotely. So you actually had to throw people at this. But that taught me a lot of things in terms of what is the outcome that customers want. And this is what I've seen. In TOMRA, they require only uptime availability at the highest level. When I say level, sorting capacity. If something drops below a certain threshold, machine should be giving a signal through. This material dropping below this, you get a technician remotely to change the parameters slightly up. You send a quick report to the customer, say, Mr. Customer, just to let you know, you don't even know. Customers don't even know that this has happened. This is your percentage back again. And that's how we want to try to change the intangible is really sharing that a customer can see they get much better yield from the waste that goes through their plants. That's a few basics. But it's really just in our case, customers don't care if they only care about is that machine available? Is that machine available? Is it running? Is it running at their highest available parameters that's needed to get a better yield for them? Yes, they enjoy that. When I pick up the phone, I want to have the FSE there. With a service level agreement or without a service level agreement? They just want that machine to be fixed. And I think this is where we also need to think of, I see this as value add for customer at the end of the day. I think we all charge our customers, travel, accommodation, plus then the labor hours on site, plus this. Imagine you go to a customer and say, instead of me investing in Lufthansa, I'm not charging you, but you will pay for the hours that we actually do this proactive service for you. And that's where it comes down to, is really saving money and cost to our customers, that overall total cost of ownership, but getting to a place where you can actually put on a piece of paper that you're guaranteeing a certain level of uptime availability, being that 99% according to this target.

Sarah: Okay, you said just around two years, you've been in this role and you're creating this vision, you're working toward shifting the mindset, navigating the culture, managing change. I have to imagine there could be hard days, days where you might feel like you're fighting an uphill battle or anything like that. How do you stay positive and motivated to continue to push toward that vision?

Clinten: If you are frustrated with things quickly, you should not be in service. That's my advice. We are in service because we have a lot of resilience. Even if it is whatever happens in organization, you need to stay cool, calm, relaxed, and make sure that things happen. If you're unable to do that, like I said, then I would go back being a bookkeeper or an accounting department. I think this is one of the key learnings for me. And on top of this is, yes, there are frustrating days when things doesn't go according to plan. Yes, there are frustration in terms of some decisions that's been made that you haven't, but you need to adapt to it. You need to maybe just give that some thought. I think very younger in my career, I was one of the type of service managers that will take on everything. And I think I was the guy with that cape on. And if something goes wrong, I will make sure it gets fixed. And as I progressed through my career, one of my mentors said to me, you know what? You are too deep in the weeds. And because you are so good at what you are doing, you'll never move up in your career. But in the weeds is where I'm comfortable. That's where I am. Yes, it makes frustrated, but the most rewarding is getting something back on track, getting a customer to say, oh, fantastic work, Clinten. Yes, we had a problem, but you guys have sorted everything out. That was rewarding. Ultimately, what I also try and encourage my service team is don't get too stuck in that daily weeds because then you're starting to really losing perspective of the bigger picture. You have to take time out. And this is what I'm doing. I take enough time out to actually look at things. Are we progressing? How are we going according to our business plan? Asking questions, speaking to different people in the organization. And if I get really frustrated, I go see customers that are very happy with our service. It's also good to speak to those customers and just get a positive view back again.

Sarah: I think it's a really important point. And it sounds very simple. You have to keep time to look at the innovative things and think ahead. It's not easy to do at all, though. It is very easy to get consumed by the needs of the business today and just lose that track of time where you need to be thinking ahead. And so I think, though, you making time for that and you prioritizing that balance is what will be the difference between you hitting that 2035 vision and another company not being where you will be at that point, because it is incredibly important.

Clinten: It's also important to keep on transforming yourself. Prior, like I said, 2019 BC, I think this photo was, I think, taken then I was about 120 kilograms. And when COVID started striking, I still did work remotely from home, but I actually started running. Now, just imagine, I was 120 kilos. When I say running, I was walking 10 meters and then running five meters. But it progressed over time. I would have never thought I'm a runner, but today I'm running. I looked at my own health mentality, all of this type of areas, and it actually then starts helping you to think much more clearer of what it is that you want to set up. I think it's really, really important. Otherwise, we as service get pulled into the weeds too deep, too much, makes you frustrated. It doesn't give you job satisfaction. And you really need to look at, and then people start seeing that because they see that you are stressed. They see that you are under the cushion. And then nobody wants to kind of speak to service because they're scared you bite their heads off. So if you actually start transforming that much higher, keep the positivity, suddenly your CEO says, that's quite, I'm surprised that service is actually showing much more positivity in an organization. So it really starts from the top.

Sarah: Yeah, and I think if you want to be able to maintain that resilience in what you're trying to accomplish at work, you need to take care of yourself. You have to prioritize that as well. Clinten, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

Episode 274

In this episode of the Unscripted podcast, host Sarah Nicastro welcomes Teresa Carneiro, Field Service Engineer at STEMCELL Technologies, for a conversation about what drew her to field service, what she enjoys about the FSE role, the realities of being a young woman in field service, and her perspective on how her career might evolve.

Teresa, a 24-year-old from Portugal, recently completed her master's degree in biomedical engineering following a bachelor's in the same field. Due to limited career opportunities in Portugal, she sought work abroad and aimed for Germany. For the past five months, Teresa has been working as a field service engineer in Munich for STEMCELL Technologies.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

Full Show Notes

Teresa: I guess I can say as a young person's perspective that the companies that are investing in creating flexibility and creative environments and that are promoting professional but personal growth as well and that provide a safe space for learning are definitely on the right track. Believing in young people and their skills is crucial as is giving them a chance even if there are other candidates with more experience. We've all been there, everyone needs their first opportunity to show their worth. And ultimately the companies that claim that they are working hard to attract this new talent hold significant power, and including the younger generation.

Sarah: Welcome to the UNSCRIPTED Podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. I'm really excited about our episode today because we're going to be diving inside the mind of the new talent that you all are seeking. I had the pleasure to meet today's guest at the Future of Field Service live event in Cologne in June, and it was wonderful to have her there to get her perspective, but also to see the people flocking to her and offering her jobs. I'm excited to welcome to today's podcast, Teresa Carneiro, who is a Field Service Engineer at STEMCELL Technologies. Teresa, welcome to the podcast.

Teresa: Thank you so much, Sarah. I would first like to thank you for inviting me for your podcast and for working so hard to give young women a voice in this industry.

Sarah: It's my pleasure.

Teresa: So I can start speaking a bit about me?

Sarah: Yeah, absolutely. Tell anything you want to share about yourself, your background, and then we'll get into some of the points about how you landed in field service and what you're enjoying about it.

Teresa: Sure. To begin with, I am 24 years old and I'm from Portugal. And previously, I've just been finishing my master's degree in biomedical engineering. And before that, I've done a bachelor's in the same area. And unfortunately, in Portugal, it isn't very appealing for young people that want to start their career right now. I've only looked for jobs outside of Portugal, and my goal was to work in Germany. Currently, I've been working as a field service engineer, as you mentioned, in Munich for the past almost five months now in a company based in Vancouver, Canada called STEMCELL Technologies, which is mainly focused in improving research reliability and making researchers' life easier overall.

Sarah: Okay, excellent. What was interesting about you attending the Cologne event specifically for folks that are listening that weren't with us in person, we had a session with Daniel Turnbull from Thermo Fisher Scientific. And Daniel's actually been on the podcast before. So if any of you wanted to go back and listen to his interview, you could. But he was there to talk about some of the very specific steps that Thermo Fisher has taken beginning in Germany to improve diversity in their field force, and specifically to bring more women into field engineer roles. And so it just was very serendipitous that you were in the audience because you were able to kind of lend some firsthand perspective and so I reached out to Teresa after the event and said, our audience as a whole is working toward that objective and really struggling to figure out the best ways to bring in young talent to bring in more diversity to bring in women specifically. And so I know that they would value hearing from your firsthand experience. So here we are. So as you said, you've been in your field service engineer role now for about five months. So the first thing I want to talk about is, what attracted you to this role and this work?

Teresa: I think I would like to start by saying that one thing that I felt that was really lacking throughout my whole university experience was having some real examples of what it is possible to do after you finish your studies. And of course, you can do your own research, but having real life examples and people to talk about how their daily life actually looks like gives you a much clearer idea of what your own life can look like if you choose that path, but short story short, I had a friend that was working as a field service engineer. And when he described it to me, I thought that might be something that I really like to do, actually. This would give me the opportunity to travel, to be exposed to different environments. And it seemed like the type of job that is different every day, which for me was really appealing. And so that idea, I guess, just persisted on my mind. And when I graduated, I only searched and applied for these kind of roles. And eventually, STEMCELL believed in me and in my background. And here I am.

Sarah: Yeah, that's wonderful. But it's interesting, we have had a lot of conversations on the podcast about that. Oftentimes, the way we position it is field service has a branding problem. First of all, it's not a specific industry. It's a collection of a bunch of different industries. And that can be challenging. But also, it isn't a career that not only is it not shown by example in settings, like you mentioned, but oftentimes, it's hard for people to even picture what it is or what it could be. And so without having someone in your life personally, that is doing it and saying, hey, you might actually like this. It's just something that I don't think lands on a lot of people's radars. And so I think one of the challenges companies have is figuring out how do we create more awareness of this whole sort of career path for people earlier on in their education in their lives, so they can see some of that potential. So another thing we talk a lot about on this podcast is that traditionally or historically, companies have hired field engineers based on previous experience. And we have talked about the fact that those experienced engineers are becoming harder and harder and harder to find because they're aging out, they're retiring, there's just fewer and fewer of them. And so that companies need to become more adept at hiring talent that has potential and then training up and providing that experience. And I know you said to me that when you were applying to roles, you did really feel that not having previous experience was a barrier for you. So can you just share a little bit what your experience was like in that regard?

Teresa: Yes, of course. I think it is very curious because ever since I actually joined the industry, I have heard all sorts of companies saying exactly how hard it is to get young talent in their teams. But I must say that having very recently searched for a job, I felt exactly the opposite. I felt that I was always behind because I didn't have any previous experience in this industry. And even when you come across some entry-level jobs, they often ask for years of experience. Yeah, it can be a bit discouraging to find that most job ads require some sort of years of experience. And especially this type of role, because I feel that this type of job, you need lots and lots of training, regardless of your previous experience, because of how specific it is. And I truly believe that recently graduated students can bring a lot to the table. We are used to learn so many different things in such short time-frame.

Sarah: Learning was your full-time job for the last however many years.

Teresa: And the amount of detail we can retain is also really high, which I think is essential in this type of jobs. For me personally, and coming back a bit to your original question about my experience, I was doing research before and I knew I wanted to transition to this industry. And fortunately, I have found a job that allows me to keep in touch with this research environment. As I've said, my company focuses mainly in helping researchers. And so for me, being able to bridge this gap between industry and research makes me feel really accomplished and that I'm doing something meaningful. And yet again, young people can bring so much more to the table than it might seem at first sight.

Sarah: Yeah. And you made a good point when we were chatting. You said not only what you just said, which is people that are coming out of school are really in that learning mindset, but also that they're moldable, right? When you have someone that has 10, 15, 20 years of experience, they're also coming into the role with maybe some bad habits or some really firm opinions that if that doesn't fit the new role have to be overcome. So there's clearly pros and cons. But as we've stated on this podcast before, I think companies that refuse to see the need to recreate that process and how they're looking and what they're willing to do to train internally are really going to fall behind. All right. So I think one thing I wanted to ask you on that is, so for STEMCELL where you landed, what was different in their approach? Was it just that, like, were you applying for those roles, even though they were asking for experience and you didn't have it? Or did you just not apply? And then for STEMCELL, were they just not requiring experience?

Teresa: For me, at first, when I started to apply for jobs, I would be very specific. If I don't meet the requires, I would not apply. And then I started to understand that I cannot go this road and I need to apply and then prove myself in the interviews because my curriculum might not be what they are looking for. But if they meet me, I might change their minds. And that's what happened. So for me, I had not only the experience side of things, but I also had the language side of things because most ads asked for German, which I also don't speak very well yet. And so STEMCELL did ask for German and I cannot remember, but they might have asked for some years of experience, nothing crazy. And I applied anyway, because I figured, what do I have to lose? And I encourage young people to do the same. And whenever I'm talking with friends that are searching for new jobs, I always say, apply even if you don't fit every requirement. Because it might change their mind when they need you and talk to you.

Sarah: Yeah. No, it's a really important point. And I think there's obviously research that shows when we're talking specifically about trying to bring more women into field service roles, women are less likely to apply for jobs where they don't match all of the criteria. So one, I'm really glad that you did that anyway. But two, companies need to think about the fact of who they are leaving out when they're creating their job postings. Okay, what I wanna talk about next is, I know you're still pretty early in, but what do you find you enjoy about the role?

Teresa: I would say that my favorite thing so far is having the opportunity to be exposed to different labs. This early on in my career, I believe that having the opportunity to create so many contacts and be exposed to so many different environments is a big advantage for me and a great learning opportunity. Of course, the traveling that this implies is also a big highlight for me as I do love traveling and having the opportunity to visit countries, not only Germany, but also other countries in Europe is also a big plus for me. In this job, I also like to talk to people and establish communication with our customers. I like to see this job not only as servicing machines, but also listening and understanding our customers, which in my case are researchers. And I think this is where my previous experience in research really gives me leverage because I can relate to them and I can understand their urgency. And I guess the other thing I would like to mention is the flexible work hours. I like that not every day is the same. Like on the same week, I can have some days working from home, others traveling, and also some days in the labs. So not having that regular nine to five job at this point is also one of the reasons this role is so appealing to me.

Sarah: Yeah, those are all great things. And you also mentioned earlier, and I think we hear this a lot, particularly when you think about, generational differences in the workplace. There was a point in time where, and some leadership and companies are still in the mentality of pay being the only thing that matters, right? That was the most important thing. It was really the only thing. Obviously it remains very important, but you also mentioned earlier that for you, because you care so much about the research world, having this role that kind of builds that bridge gives you that sense of purpose. And I think that's something that we hear a lot with younger talent. That they want to feel like what they're doing matters. They want to feel like they have a purpose. So again, it doesn't have to be your particular industry. It can be a number of industries. I mean, service in so many ways is what keeps the world running. But I think for organizations who are trying to reimagine how they're positioning roles and how they're hiring for roles, keeping in mind that money isn't the only thing people are looking for. They're looking for flexibility. They're looking for that sense of purpose. They're looking for some of these different things. It's really important to balance out that employee value proposition to bring in different people.

Teresa: The younger generation is more and more concerned with work-life balance than the previous generation was definitely.

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. And so flexibility plays a big role. And so does, and we're going to talk about this a bit as well, leadership style. There's a lot of different elements to consider. But before we get to that, what challenges have you faced?

Teresa: Would say that so far I've not really faced any big challenges. As I've mentioned, I've just started not even five months ago. So far, everything has run pretty smoothly. However, all of my visits so far have been joint visits as I'm still in training. And I guess that another thing that might make me feel more comfortable and secure is that I work mainly with research labs. Where in contrast with field service, there are a lot of women working. I feel that compared to other industries, this one might be a bit easier to fit in as a woman, even though all of my field service colleagues are men. I would say that the only comment that has stuck in my head was nothing big, but was when I visited a lab with my manager the other day and I was introduced by him to the lab manager as the new person responsible for their lab. His first comment to my manager was asking, if he would keep tagging along regardless. Of course, this makes you think if the customer is going to trust you or because of my age or whatever, they might be a bit skeptical of my skills. But then again, it can be that they are just happy with my manager's work. And when you're happy with someone's work, change is not always seen as a good thing, you know? Yeah, I don't want to make any assumptions. But it was the only thing that I could think of.

Sarah: Yeah. No, and I'm really glad that your experience has been positive. But we did dig into this a little bit when we were chatting because I think your feeling was more so that that comment, if anything, had to do with age versus you being a woman. And it doesn't necessarily matter. But I do think your observations are spot on. And I think the reason that I wanted to ask this question isn't to make any assumptions or anything like that, but more so just remind folks that when you're trying really hard to bring in new talent, we can't get them in the same place and then stop thinking about it and assume everything's going to be great. We do have to think about what is that experience like for them. And that brings us to a bunch of different points. When that talent is different in any way from the traditional talent, we do need to think about, okay, are they being welcomed by internal teams? Are they being treated well by customers? We need to think about the leadership. So your manager in that moment, when that was said by a customer, that person's response, matters a lot. You know, if they make a joke about you, you could feel a certain way versus if they show confidence in your ability is you're going to feel more empowered. These all seem like these very little things, but for a new employee that is already new, so there's always that getting adjusted and maybe being a bit nervous. It's a new role. It's a new experience. They're different somehow than the existing or traditional workforce. These little things can matter a lot, particularly if they're occurring on a frequent basis. I think it's really important for managers to stay tuned into what is that experience? Is there, and the way I'm asking you what challenges, managers should be asking all new employees on a regular basis. How are you feeling? What are the challenges? Is there anything you need help with? Because these aren't things either where every employee is going to come running back and say, so-and-so just said this, or this made me uncomfortable. Oftentimes they'll keep it quiet because they're trying to fit in. Right. But then it can cause challenges. So I'm really glad that your experience has been positive so far. And I just bring this up because I think it's an important point for people to think about. That being said, is there anything, knowing that you've had a very positive experience, is there anything you think is helpful to share that you feel your company has done well to make sure that you feel welcome, you feel enabled, you feel prepared to, do those visits and learn and eventually get out on your own?

Teresa: Yeah, I can start by saying that from the first moment, still during interviews, my manager expressed a good concern regarding me being a woman. Like he included a woman during the interviews, even though she was not in field service, he wanted me to feel comfortable. So there's always been that concern and I do really appreciate it. I've been really feeling protected from the get-go and I feel that my company's culture is overall very welcoming. One thing that I really appreciate is that my team, everyone is super available to include me and have me joining customers visits. They always take extra time to explain and train me properly. They never make me feel like a burden or like I'm delaying their work or making them stay longer or anything. I think that the other thing that was also reassuring is that I was never given a time limit to when I need to be ready to start going alone. So my company has always reiterated that I will only continue. I go alone when I feel comfortable and ready. And that's, of course, super reassuring because I can take my time and be very confident before I start going alone.

Sarah: Yeah. Two things on that. And one thing I want to say, I don't think you'll take offense to this, but I think when you say concern, that word could be a little bit misleading because it almost gives a negative. It's more awareness, I think, is what you mean.

Teresa: Exactly.

Sarah: Because it wasn't concern where he was worried. It was concern where he was conscious of wanting you to be comfortable. I think there's just a way that can be done very well. And there's a way it could be patronizing as a woman. Do you know what I mean? And so I just want to point that out because those, again, are the little things that matter a lot. The other thing I wanted to say is knowing that in their job posting, there was small experience requirement that you didn't meet, but you were obviously brought on anyway. So in the training process, have you felt that as a challenge at all? Or do you genuinely feel like you are just as equipped as someone who would have come in with any experience?

Teresa: Yeah, I definitely think that with all the training, I've had two intensive training weeks in Canada in the headquarters. And with that, I feel really equipped. And all of the subsequent joint visits also made me sure that I'm ready. I feel that, as I've said before, the training is so specific that even if I've had previous experience, it would not help me necessarily with this equipment. I don't think that would make such a difference. I don't know, maybe in a few years when if I choose another job, I will have a different take on this. But for now, no, I don't feel that having previous experience would make that be of a difference.

Sarah: Yeah, I would imagine that is accurate. And I think it's just another important reminder for people of how many great candidates they're leaving out if they're continuing to hold that requirement, even when it is specific. Now, going back to the conversation at the Cologne event and the previous podcast with Daniel, there are instances where, if you remember in his conversation, they were saying that there was a specific requirement that they have for their role. That is one of the reasons, a certification, one of the reasons that they had previously required that experience. And so when they realized, though, that that was a barrier to bringing in people that didn't already have experience, they split the role to where there was more of a truer entry-level role where that certification wasn't necessary and they bring people into that role, then they can certify them while they're working to be able to do the second piece of that as well. So my point being, if there are true requirements like that, there's always a way to provide them or to work for them. It's just a matter of companies being very stuck to the way they've always done it versus being willing to reflect or to try something different. The other thing I wanted to ask you about, Teresa, is your views on empowerment. So we talked about enablement, you coming in out of a school setting, you feeling like you are being trained well, you're being supported well by your teams, you're not made to feel a burden. You can take the time you need to feel comfortable going on your own. But I think the other important piece, particularly today, is leaders who are focused on this sense of ownership, the employees feeling confident to do the job well, but do it in their own way and bring their own personality to things, bring their opinions and ideas to work, et cetera. So what are your thoughts on that?

Teresa: I think that at this point, at least for me, this question's answer is highly dependent on who my manager is and how much freedom do they allow. And I've currently so far been really lucky with my current manager because there is no micromanagement whatsoever. And of course, this gives me all the freedom I need to organize my day, organize my trips in the way that it suits me best and makes me feel more comfortable with it. And I think that the sense of ownership that you mentioned comes mainly from, of course, being given the tools that you need, but also having the freedom to explore the way you're most comfortable doing things and tackling issues in your own way, even if it's not the way other people are doing it. I guess instead of just being told how I need to approach services, I have also been given space. And actually, I've been highly encouraged to, ever since my first training in Vancouver, I've been highly encouraged to find the way that it's the best way for me to carry the services. I feel that in that sense, they really invest on making the employees feel that they can do the things on their own way and everyone can have a different way to do things as long as they're doing it. I guess they are done well and on time.

Sarah: Yeah, there's standards, but then you're given a creative freedom to build your own relationships and bring your own personality to it. And I think this correlates back to some of the things that you have said that attracted you to the space or that you enjoy about the role. You find a sense of purpose in what you're doing. I think it's really hard when you have employees who have that sense of purpose and they have drive and they have passion about what they're doing, but then you have a manager that's telling them basically to be a robot and to do things in this uniform fashion and no, I don't want your ideas. This is how it's done. Then you're not creating an environment where one, those people are going to want to stay, but two, they can have the impact they're able to have on the customer experience. Yeah, I would point people back to there was an episode of the podcast that was with Venkata from Bruker Nano, and we talked a lot about his leadership style. And I just feel like this idea of... I love empowerment and that building that sense of ownership is so important in actually getting the most of today's talent once they've come on board. So I'm really glad that you're having, again, a positive experience, though. That's good. Okay, Teresa, so when you think ahead, I know, again, it's still early on. So some of these questions are probably a little hard because you're like, I'm still getting up to speed. But I mean, obviously, you have your own goals and dreams and objectives and whatnot. So when you think about the potential growth that could exist for you for a career in field service, how do you envision that?

Teresa: As you've said, to be honest, like, of course, I've given some thought to that. But as this is my first job and it's super early on, I've mostly been taking the opportunity to learn as much as I can right now. And once I'm more settled, I'm sure I'll give way more thought than I have to this question. But to quickly answer, I think that over time, I just hope that I'm given more and more responsibility, that I am trusted by my team and that perhaps I'll be able to train people when it comes to it. And of course, the possibility of managing a team would also be interesting. But then again, I'm not saying that I'm staying in this field forever. But yeah, it's a possibility and it's interesting possibility.

Sarah: Let me word it this way. When you came into STEMCELL when you interviewed, when you came on board throughout your sort of orientation and training, like, have they presented to you what growth could look like? Or is it still just focused on this role specifically?

Teresa: I think it's pretty focused on this role specifically, but I do have some close examples that started as field service engineers and now have higher positions in the company. They are always open to that. But I've also been given this advice, which is. If you don't want to be a field service engineer for the rest of your life, don't do it for more than five or six years. Otherwise, you might want to be stuck at this.

Sarah: Yeah.

Teresa: And you don't not, I might want to explore different roles. I don't know. But I think there is a possibility to grow within the company. At least that's what I feel right now. But yeah, it's not on my plans in the near future, at least.

Sarah: You're getting situated.

Teresa: Yeah.

Sarah: That makes sense. I think this is just another thing that we hear a lot in conversations about talent is that particularly younger talent coming in, they want to progress. So it doesn't mean, I mean, you're five months in, obviously. I'm not saying you're there yet. But it's important for companies to have the understanding that, again, historically technicians or engineers would come into the company and they might do that role for 30 years. We need to understand that the majority of talent today is not going to want to do that. They're going to want to do it for a few years and have an opportunity for growth and evolve. And so number one, I think just understanding that reality is important in how we or how they orient their organizations to account for that. And then number two, there's been different conversations I've had of how companies are working to show new hires that potential when they come in so that they know it's there, they can work at their own pace, they can be as motivated to progress or not, but that they know that that potential exists within that organization versus them being in that role for a couple years, getting bored, and then jumping to a different organization. So it's just another point to consider, but it's also good to hear that you're not like, I think there's also this misperception that young talent has this unrealistic desire to just come in to a field service engineer role and be CEO in six months. You know what I mean? And it's also maybe dispelling that myth that you're saying, hey, right now I'm just focused on doing this job well, and then I'll think about what's next.

Teresa: Of course, of course. But don't get me wrong. I'm not thinking about growing right now, but of course, there's something that's an ambition, of course. But I know these things take time, and I'm not in a rush. And as I've said, I'm taking the opportunity to learn as much as I can right now, and that's my main goal now. But of course, that's on my mind, and I think it's good for people to be ambitious.

Sarah: Yeah. It's also another important point back to the importance of good leadership, because a lot of those conversations... Sure, someone can show you a chart, when you're getting hired, of what the different growth potential is, but that's not relevant at that moment, right? You're focused on coming in to do the job you were hired for. It's having those close, having that relationship with your leader, having those interactions, having them not just saying, are you doing a good job? Great. But how are you feeling? What are your goals, et cetera, over time? So yeah.

Teresa: Of course.

Sarah: Okay, so here's maybe a tough question for you. We talked about some of the things that you enjoy about the role and you're young. So have you thought about how the things you enjoy a lot now could change in other phases of your life and how you might navigate that?

Teresa: I think that this is where you want this question to go. I think that when I picture my phases of life, what's next or not next necessarily, but in the future is having a family eventually. Of course, this is the kind of job that makes you think how it will be when you have a family because we have to travel a lot. And so whenever I meet someone in this field with a family and especially with little kids or babies, it really inspires me and makes me think that it is actually possible to have and do both. However, of course, I have no idea how my life is going to look like in a few years. And I don't know if I will enjoy traveling as much as I do now, and especially spending so much nights away from home. Finding out that some companies, specifically Daniel that you've already mentioned, are already investing in finding solutions for people that do want to be in field service, but do not wish to travel as much as it usually implies. Is really heartwarming. Like it gives me hope that companies are more invested and creative in finding solutions for different types of people and in finding ways for more flexibility in these fields. And still in this topic, I would just like to quickly point out that these questions about balancing this type of job with parenthood are often framed as exclusively a woman's problem, such as how do you see yourself managing this lifestyle when you become a mom? And of course you did not frame it that way, nor did you assume that I do want to have children, which is also not an assumption that should be made for every woman. But this balance is not just a woman's problem. This might be a concern for anyone who wants to start a family and knows how much time we spend away from home in this type of job. So companies should tackle this problem and get creative, having everyone in mind and not just women.

Sarah: Absolutely, yeah. You said when we were talking about this, yeah, it's a consideration, but it's just as much a consideration for my partner as it is for me. And I love that. Now, I will say I get inspired hearing you say that because it shows the change and the growth in thinking. I'm 42, I have two sons and I have traveled throughout my career. And I am still often asked in 2024, who's taking care of your children? And I'm like, their dad. You know? And it's unfortunate, but it is still very much a reality. And I think that's why I wanted to bring it up. So there's a few important things we talked about. Number one, and I said this at the event, I think, I have been asked questions before as a woman and as a mother of, you know, well, we need more women in service because they're nurturing or we need to think about this or this. And we need to be very careful of assuming that all women want to have children. That's just not a reality that we should assume for a variety of reasons. That's number one. Number two, to your point, we need to be creative and think about how we bring in more flexibility and more options to field service roles for everyone. Because the only way that this continues to evolve and get better is if it's possible for anyone to do it. The more we think about it through the lens of how do we make it easier for women? All we're doing is reinforcing the mentality that it's a woman's job alone to have that consideration. I read this quote recently. I think I shared it on LinkedIn. It made me think so much, but it said, giving women more opportunity in the workplace without expecting more from men at home is not empowerment, it's exploitation. And I absolutely love that. And that's coming from someone who, at least for my age, is in a pretty egalitarian relationship. But the beliefs, the things that are really deeply embedded are really deeply embedded. And we have to continue to challenge those. So I'm really glad that you bring up that point. And also really glad that you said, my partner is thinking about this just as much as I am. The other thing I wanted to reinforce that you said is for a woman or a couple that does choose to have children, it also doesn't automatically, mean they don't want a role where they travel. Yes, some people might decide they don't want that anymore for any reason. Some people just get sick of it, even if they don't have kids. Or they might decide one doesn't, whatever. But to your point, you said that when you see people doing it, it's inspiring to you. And so I also want to kind of reinforce for listeners, there is no rule that says once someone has a family, they don't want to travel anymore. So I think the lesson here is, one, not to make assumptions. And two, to think creatively about how we can build different options into the work structure so that it can fit. A variety of different needs, and we can have the greatest success possible. Bringing in good talent and retaining that good talent through different phases.

Teresa: Yeah, definitely. Thank you for complimenting what I said in such a clear way. Yeah.

Sarah: Well, I'm very passionate about it as well. It's a really layered topic. And I will admit, I've admitted this many times, as a mom, I do have guilt for being gone. And I'm not saying I should. I'm just saying I do. And so when I'm away from my family and there's stuff going on here and someone makes a comment like that, it's not easy to just brush off always. And so I think that I want to see that change. It doesn't help anyone to continue to reinforce that thinking. And I think there's, with your generation, a huge wave of change coming because of the work that my generation and others have done, right? It's we're building on it, but it just takes time, so.

Teresa: Of course.

Sarah: Okay. Any other advice you would offer companies who are really working hard to bring in new talent? Things you can think that they should do, things they shouldn't do. From your perspective, having recently gone through this, is there anything we haven't touched on that comes to mind that you think it would be good for folks to be thinking about?

Teresa: I don't, of course, have a recipe or anything about what should or shouldn't be done, especially because I'm so new to all of this. I might have some more insights. As I gain more understanding of this industry. But I guess I can say as a young person's perspective that the companies that are investing in creating flexibility and creative environments and that are promoting professional but personal growth as well and that provide a safe space for learning are definitely on the right track. Believing in young people and their skills is crucial as is giving them a chance, even if there are other candidates with more experience. We've all been there. Everyone needs their first opportunity to show their work. And ultimately, the companies that claim that they are working hard to attract this new talent hold significant power in including the younger generation. I don't know. It's also very good that companies are showing more and more concern in having a more diverse team. And for example, I think that for including women, it might be easier to look in the younger generation as we've discussed. There are way more female engineers, for example, nowadays than there were before. So if you really want to make a change, you need to go on all fronts. And also one thing that I think that field service industry can take advantage of is that they're offering a different type of routine compared to more traditional jobs. And I believe that nowadays young people are craving for a more fast-paced environment. They are keen to learning from different environments at the same time and from different people. And so having a more diverse experience overall is appealing to young people. And I think it's something that field service can bring. I think that highlighting this aspect of the job might be a good way to attract young people.

Sarah: Absolutely. So I feel bad going back to something because that was such a good conclusion. But I did just think of one thing that you brought up that I want to touch on because I think it would be helpful for listeners, which is you mentioned in that variety. So you just kind of mentioned it. You said that you travel. Some days you're in the lab. Some days you're working from home. And so I wanted to ask you, is that because you're in training or will that be the same when you are on your own? Will you still have days you're working from home and you'll have days that you're traveling, days that you're in the lab? And is that something that will be the same throughout?

Teresa: Yes. The routine will be almost the same, meaning there are really no routine. But I will have days at home, which might involve getting some paperwork done or getting involved in some other projects that a company might have going on. And then, of course, travel days sometimes take the whole day. But yeah, days from home are also good because, of course, you're not looking at your computer waiting for an email to drop at all. So it also gives me the opportunity to explore other hobbies and gives me some free time that I think that in a regular nine-to-five job, again, you wouldn't have the chance to explore this other side.

Sarah: Yeah. No. And I wanted to go back to that because a lot of times we think about these roles as even if it isn't travel, like get on an airplane or get on a train. It's just like in the car. It's Monday through Friday or whatever the schedule is. It's boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. Right. And don't get me wrong. There's different service environments based on different industries. I understand that. But I do think maybe in your industry, that sort of variety is more naturally occurring. But even for those, it isn't where there's this daily demand for service job after service job. Thinking about is there a way to rotate or split work where you can build in some of that variety, where maybe two days a week technicians or engineers are doing remote service from home. And three days a week, they're traveling or something like that. Again, going back to your point of just being conscious that flexibility, that creativity, that variety is very important. I just want to challenge people to think about, I believe there's always a way to provide more of that. It's just a matter of whether you're willing to do things differently or you're trying to fit today's talent into a very outdated mold. So I just wanted to go back to that because we're seeing more of that. I think that as companies adopt more remote service capabilities, they can have engineers working from home a couple days a week doing remote service and then be on site. And I think, again, we talked about travel can be incredibly exciting for a while. But I think for some people, it will get old regardless of what the next phase of life looks like. So just having options for different ways to different roles to offer different ways to build schedules, different alternatives is, I think, really important for the future.

Teresa: Yeah, me too. And that's why I mentioned Daniel's work, because that's the most familiar work I've been with so far. And it's really what I hope in a company. And it's creating that space for you to be comfortable with whichever phase you're in and having that flexibility. So you're not traveling all the time or you can spend some time troubleshooting at home. You might also like that. So, yeah, given that choices, it makes you happier. And overall, I think that having your employees happy makes your customers happier. So it's all a big cycle.

Sarah: I just thought of one other question. We're going to keep going. This is going to be like a three hour episode. I'm just kidding. Last one, I promise. So there's major, major buzz everywhere right now about AI. So I want to ask from the perspective of a young field service engineer, how do you feel about AI?

Teresa: I feel that AI can be a really good tool if you know how to use it. And if you are aware of its limitations, I think that it's still evolving. I have to be honest, I'm not an expert in the subject, but we did discuss some really interesting things in the event we met. And there were discussions of having these interactive videos where you can ask questions because we're training. Everyone knows that if you don't have customers that have that specific machine and you don't go there very often, you might forget. So having, I think that AI can be a really good tool for training, for example. But of course, you need to acknowledge there are limitations, at least for now. It's not 100% reliable, of course. And everyone needs to be aware of that.

Sarah: It's not something that makes you fear for your job.

Teresa: I think it will complement my job. I don't know if it will grow fast enough. I'm sure it will grow very, very fast, but I don't know if it will grow fast enough or, again, I don't know if it will be 100% reliable ever. So I think that having the human input is always good and it can be a great tool to complement that work. But yeah, I would like to believe that we are still needed in the long run.

Sarah: Yeah. I agree a thousand percent. I don't see a time, regardless of how sophisticated it becomes, that we don't need to think about it as how it complements human effort versus overtakes it. But I was just really interested to ask your perspective because it's something that I think sometimes, and maybe it's more threatening for people that have been in the workforce longer that see it as such a massive change. But I think it's important for us to think about how we put people at ease of looking at it as a tool to help them in their roles, not looking at it as a threat. Okay. Thanks for letting me ask you a bunch of questions that I was curious about. I absolutely loved it. I appreciate your perspective. I'm very excited to see where your career takes you because you're going to do amazing things and we'll definitely love to have you back at some point.

Teresa: Yeah, thank you so much again for the invite. I really enjoyed our conversation. It's always great to hear your inputs. I think we have very similar intakes in some of the main topics. So it's good to have this podcast to have continuity in these topics.

Sarah: Yes, thank you for being a part of it. I appreciate it.

Teresa: Thank you, Sarah.

Sarah: You all can find more by visiting the home of UNSCRIPTED at futureoffieldservice.com. I will try and make sure we link in the show notes the episode that we did with Daniel at Thermo Fisher and Venkata at Bruker Nano that we mentioned in this episode. The Unscripted podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more at ifs.com. And as always, thank you for listening.

When I began in this space, efficiency ruled the world of field service. Field service was perceived as a cost center of the business, and efforts to maximize efficiency took center stage. While efficiency is still important today, in a landscape where service is a differentiator for your business and a potential avenue of growth, the concept of employee engagement and empowerment has become far more important.

This begs the question, is it possible to balance efficiency and empowerment – or are they innately at odds? My belief is that we can, and must, find a balance. Companies that remain focused only on wringing every last ounce of productivity out of their field force with no regard to employee engagement (let alone how the impact of that type of management mentality trickles down to the customer experience) will fail in today’s talent landscape (and beyond).

What’s Your Perspective?

Finding the balance has a lot to do with perspective. If your leadership style is “command and control” or your company’s focus is too narrowly on the quarter-by-quarter financials, it’s time to evolve and consider the value of a more employee-centric approach. For those of you who are rolling your eyes, trust me when I say this doesn’t mean abandoning standards, or rules, or even a focus on efficiency; it simply means that you consider the more modern thinking that if you trust, enable, and empower your employees they will take ownership in their roles and meet – or exceed – your expectations. Without micromanagement!

If you find yourself rooted in skepticism, there is ample evidence of the correlation between employee engagement and productivity (among other benefits). For instance, according to Gallup, companies with highly engaged employees are 17% more productive and 21% more profitable than companies with disengaged employees. Gallup also states that, “engaged employees are more motivated to complete tasks on time and successfully, and they're better at meeting customer needs, which can lead to more sales and higher revenues. They also tend to be more innovative and efficient and have higher customer retention rates.”

Moreover, today’s talent is unlikely to tolerate working in the efficiency-at-all-costs environments of yesteryear. They seek environments that offer flexibility, invite their creativity, provide a sense of purpose, and uphold a sense of humanity. So not only is it proven that employee-centric environments yield better performance, but you’re unlikely to be able to fill roles and retain talent if you aren’t putting genuine effort into creating and nurturing employee engagement and empowerment.

Empowerment > Efficiency

When it comes down to it, I believe leaders must prioritize empowerment. Prioritizing efficiency illustrates a disbelief in, or disregard of, the correlation highlighted above, and while it’s fine to have measures in place to focus on or improve efficiency, weighting the importance of that above employee engagement is foolish.

So how do we create environments where employees feel empowered, and we are maximizing efficiency? Here are some thoughts:

Employee-centric cultures often happen from the top-down, with alignment on the importance and value of the approach
Leaders must create relationships with each of their team members and prioritize one-on-ones to understand their goals, motivators, communication preferences, and so on
Leaders need to ask a lot of questions, inviting teams to provide feedback, take part in brainstorming and problem-solving, and feel invested in team and company objectives
Employees need to feel valued, respected, and heard. Ensuring communication channels are varied, all opinions are welcome, and efforts are acknowledged and rewarded
Employees should have standards to adhere to, but be given room to be authentic and personalize their approach
Expectations should be clear and well-rounded (not short sighted) – metrics like customer satisfaction and retention should be weighted more than efficiency-driven metrics like jobs per day, because they are more indicative of success in an environment where service is a differentiator
Efforts around efficiency should be geared toward alleviating friction from the employees day-to-day work and removing barriers for them, not driving them to work harder and harder; we must balance what’s possible with what’s reasonable
Companies can use technologies that improve efficiency to create better employee engagement and satisfaction. For instance, one IFS Planning & Scheduling Optimization customer has used the intelligence of the tool to allow technicians to select their own start and end time each day, giving them something back from the benefit of automation. Stuart Thompson of ABB also shared in this podcast how as they’ve automated weekly reporting, rather than the company clawing back every moment of productivity, they’ve given the employees some of their time back
Enablement, through proper training, effective tools, ample knowledge management, and more leads to greater efficiency – the goal should be one of maximum effectiveness versus maximum efficiency

This is just what quickly comes to my mind – what would you add to the list? And how do you balance the criticality of empowerment with the need for efficiency? I’d love to hear from you!

In a session from the Future of Field Service Live Tour in Stockholm, Sarah speaks with Darian Ari, Director of Nordic B2B Solution and Implementation at GlobalConnect, about being a young leader, taking chances on new talent, and tackling the service optimization trifecta of enablement, empowerment, and execution.

With deep expertise in IT and Telecommunications, Darian's practical skills make him a standout leader. He excels in critical business management and strategy, optimizing operations and driving growth while prioritizing employee satisfaction, coaching, and a positive organizational culture.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

Watch the video here

Full Show Notes

Darian - 00:00:00:

First and foremost, I think it's really important that we spend a lot of time on recruiting our talents and our future talents, which is something I believe we're really missing out on, is the fact that we are always looking for the one that has the most experience or particularly the educational background to perform the job. And I can tell one of the main reasons why I have elevated my career so fast is because I got the opportunity to take over a team and 90% of the team had resigned at that point of time because of bad conditions. So I had the opportunity to recruit 20 new people, field engineers into my team. And I actually put all my eggs on the underdogs, the ones that nobody believed in, the ones that didn't particularly have the educational background or the experience, because I took my time to actually invest my time and focus area on learning them and getting them on boarded instead of expecting them to come and do the job without any notification at all.

Sarah - 00:00:57:

Hello, welcome to the UNSCRIPTED Podcast, where you'll find discussions on what matters most in service, leadership, and business transformation. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Let's jump in. Okay, so we have Darian Ari from Global Connect, and we're going to talk about the service optimization trifecta. Before we get into that, tell everyone a little about yourself, your role, and what the company does.

Darian - 00:01:23:

Sure. Hi, everyone. Daren is my name, 26 years old, living in a small town outside of Stockholm called Västerås. I am currently the Director of our Nordic Smart Connect department. We are allocated in Sweden, Denmark, and Norway. And GlobalConnect basically works with fiber optics and delivering network services to B2B customers. So everything from cybersecurity to fiber optics to smart solutions for IoT devices. And yeah, basically everything from A to Z when it comes to networking. And that's kind of it.

Sarah - 00:01:53:

Great. Okay, so we're going to talk about the importance of enablement, empowerment, and execution. Can you talk first about in your role and your organization, why service optimization is important?

Darian - 00:02:07:

Yeah, well, sure. If you would ask me this question just a couple of years ago, I think the answer would be very different significantly. But I would say it's the increased customer demands that has made sure that we need to focus on optimizing the increased customer demands, which in that turn, the customers also have really high demands on laws that they need to follow when it comes to networking and security overall. They have their demands towards their management team that they need to secure up some stuff. We've seen many good examples recently of companies being hit by cybersecurity attacks, which have lost millions and millions just because of the fact that they have not taken security or optimization into consideration. And I would say this puts us as a service provider in a really tricky position, because when they actually recognize the issue and try to solve it by buying a new product or optimizing their current solution, it is always under criticality. So this means we always have to work not proactively, but reactively with the customers and designing their solution and what they actually need under production. So instead of working with the portfolio that we have that we sell towards those customers, it is rather impossible to do that at the moment. Since every customer is unique, they are expecting different stuff based on their organization or what they are doing overall. So I would say that's the biggest challenge to optimize during rollout.

Sarah - 00:03:21:

Okay, so are you saying there's a lot of customization in the solutions that your customers are using?

Darian - 00:03:26:

Well, exactly. And the demand difference quite heavily from customers to customers. And especially when a customer all of a sudden receives an attack or needs to do something critical about their current solution. The product portfolio that you're offering on the market is not always dockable into what they are looking for. So basically optimizing and developing under production, that's the tricky part currently, I would say.

Sarah - 00:03:48:

Okay. All right. So if we start to break these things out, if we talk about enablement, what's your perspective on considerations there based on what you are trying to accomplish?

Darian - 00:04:01:

Well, to be honest, Roy said it really well. First and foremost, I think it's really important that we spend a lot of time on recruiting our talents and our future talents, which is something I believe we're really missing out on is the fact that we are always looking for the one that has the most experience or particularly the educational background to perform the job. And I can tell one of the main reasons why I have elevated my career so fast is because I got the opportunity to take over a team. And 90% of the team had resigned at that point of time because of bad conditions. So I had the opportunity to recruit 20 new people, field engineers into my team. And I actually put all my eggs on the underdogs, the ones that nobody believed in, the ones that didn't particularly have the educational background or the experience, because I took my time to actually invest my time and focus area on learning them and getting them onboarded instead of expecting them to come and do the job without any notification at all. So spend more time on actually utilizing your time to get them up and running. Because in that way, you can always form them more easily since they don't have any background of any other cultures or any other aspects that may interfere with what you want to achieve with them. And trust me, the shots that you get as a leader when you put your eggs underdogs, when they are up and running and actually performing really, really well, that is unmatchable. So that's the first step. And then secondly, one of the things I would say, Sarah, is knowledge management. Provide your employees with a career path. And I think all of us can relate to that. I wouldn't go to the gym every day if it weren't for my mental health or my physical appearance of something I want to achieve by going to the gym, right? And the exact same goes for the employees, right? They want to work to achieve towards something. Even if it's a salary, it's a new position, new responsibility area, provide your employees with a clear career path. And in that way, I would really say that you could enable them of sacrificing a lot to achieve what is necessary to get there.

Sarah - 00:05:48:

Yeah. I mean, certainly, it's a difference with today's talent versus historically. People were happy to stay in roles for five years, 10 years, 20 years, and that's not the case anymore. How did you find your underdogs?

Darian - 00:06:01:

Exactly what Roy said. I didn't let anyone take the decisions for me when they sent in the CVs, if they were suitable for the job position I was looking for. Most of them that I recruited didn't actually, rough to say, but they didn't have the mental brain there to actually do the school part of it. They were hardworking people that just wanted to get outside and get a chance. So the way I did it is actually that I spoke to many of the consultancy firms that we're working with, and I asked them to send me all the CVs directly, went through them all. And even the way if I didn't like the CV because of some soft skills or some hard-coded skills like fiber optics, I took a chat with them. I had a one-hour session, took them to a cafe, just talk about life, what their expectations are, what they have done before. And you could find some really, really golden employees by doing that.

Sarah - 00:06:42:

So I think this is interesting because what you're talking about is something that many aren't doing yet, right? But I do think to Roy's point, the idea of hiring based on years of experience is quickly becoming extinct. Now, what I'm curious about is, so I understand you went through the CVs yourself, so you weren't letting someone cast people aside for you. You wanted to make those judgment calls yourself. But when you go and sit down with these people who aren't the typical candidates that maybe the recruiters would have passed along to you, what are you looking for? Like, how are you yourself assessing whether you're willing to place a bet on them, right? Because I'm assuming you're not going to bet on just anyone, right? Like there's something you're kind of looking for. How did you assess those meetings? What were their particular skills or behaviors that you were looking for? Can you talk a little bit about that?

Darian - 00:07:35:

Yeah, sure. And first and foremost, I just maybe a bit to my self background. I have a bachelor in computer science and my job at GlobalConnect is my first job. I haven't been working in any other company before. And I actually started as a field engineer myself five years ago. That's how long I've been at the company. And one of my primary attributes when it comes to working, no matter what position I'm in, is that I always want to be the best at what I'm doing. It doesn't matter if I clean the floor or if I manage 100 people, I always want to be the best at what I am. And one of the factors that plays into that is the communication skills. So that was one of the things I was really, really looking for the ability to communicate, honestly, of course. So there's a famous quote that says, if you want to really know a person really well, take them to a cafe and let them order something, right? So if they take a lot of time on their self to make a simple decision as if they want a coffee or a cake, then you probably should back off from hiring them because it's a decision that doesn't really matter.

Sarah - 00:08:26:

The cafe was a test.

Darian - 00:08:27:

The cafe was a test. Exactly. But I love people. I love different kinds of people. And I don't base my employees on the fact what they have done before or what kind of experience they have. What I'm looking for is what are you able to produce and what are you able to contribute in this setup?

Sarah - 00:08:40:

Okay, so you feel good about the bets that you've made?

Darian - 00:08:43:

Really well. It took me to where I am because we actually flipped the department at that time and reduced CapEx by 80%. So it was the first time in 10 years that it happened in Global Connect. And I can tell you it was purely hard work and dedication to utilize their skills. And I think that's one of the things as well, Sarah, that they didn't really see me as their manager or the leader. I was actually carrying the load with them during that journey, invested in them with a lot of stuff, invested it in, and they felt really tight as a team.

Sarah - 00:09:08:

So you mentioned there were a couple of things you did differently. One was how you brought them in and who you placed the bets on. You also mentioned that you did a lot of the onboarding sort of yourself. So can you talk about with people that didn't have prior experience, how did you sort of equip them to be ready to go out into the field?

Darian - 00:09:27:

So I can tell you some of the people that we hired had basically no knowledge at all of what fiber optics or networking or data comm is. I actually invested a lot of time when I got the role as a manager for the department, the first six months, I built an onboarding program, which was bulletproof and that my grandma could understand, basically. So we started really, really slow, to be honest. And it was on a stupid level that when I even explained it, I was like, anyone could understand this basically. So we started really slow. And then of course, some of the people that we hired had really good experience of what they had been doing before, but they particularly didn't have the educational background for it. So they could also be a supportive functions for the new ones to onboard them and get them up and running as soon as possible. And I didn't actually have the luck to have people in the department that was senior. I had two guys left when everyone resigned. And I really utilized them in a really good way to actually onboard some groups of the people that we hired at that point of time.

Sarah - 00:10:19:

Okay, so can we talk a little bit about empowerment, right? So that's sort of maybe a progression, if you will, of enablement. So you have this new team green to the organization. You yourself are young and you're taking on this new leadership role. How are you looking at empowerment and what factor does that play?

Darian - 00:10:38:

There's one thing that I have really invested a lot of time and budget in, and that is actually sales. What I'm saying is that we should empower our employees with the ability to not only perform their day-to-day duties, but to extend over that and be the face outwards for the company. There is this thing called Selling Service, as it's called. So the example is really, really simple. Say, for example, that you go into a store and you want to buy a shirt and then you enter the store and the store manager comes to you and says, hi, sir, what are you looking for? Yes, just a shirt. Absolutely, sir. I hope you have the best day of your life. Can I ask you for what kind of event? And then you probably would say some ceremonial part for the work. And they say, well, sir, here's the shirt. And then usually our customers buy this tie with it. It goes really well with the shirt. So if you're interested, go ahead and you buy the shirt and you end up buying the tie as well. When you leave the store, if somebody would ask you, did that person sell you something or did they provide you with service? What would the answer be? Service, service. I said service myself as well. So that's what I'm trying to say, right? Every employee within an organization have the responsibility, to act as a salesperson towards the customers. They are the one out there doing the job. The salespersons are just basing their offers on some product portfolio that we have. And the same goes with the IT or field engineering department. So empowering them, I can give you a really good example of it, is that we had a challenge where we actually had a really nice price for the one that not working as a salesperson leading to the most sales lead in the organization after this session we had. So one of the technicians, for example, what they can do is that when they are visiting some customers and they are supporting them with some incident that have occurred and they can solve by themselves. And they are basically saying to the customer, well, you don't buy Wi-Fi access points from GlobalConnect, which means that if you would have done that, we could have supported you via us coming out there, taking three hours, we could have done it remotely. And they'd be like, whoa, does this exist? Yeah, well, sir, we 30 minutes SLA, and everything is solved if you buy the access points from GlobalConnect as well. And that actually led to a sale. That is just an example of many that we can utilize. Like, employees to empower them with the ability to perform more than their regular day-to-day duties. So selling service, that is my mythology I'm living after. And it also gives a really good customer experience because just with the example with the tie and shirt, you felt that you got service and the customers will also feel that they have received service instead of you selling them something. So in short, yeah.

Sarah - 00:12:57:

Yeah. Okay. Makes sense. And I think that idea of empowering those employees to sell service, again, it goes back to the skillset. It requires a different skillset than maybe the technicians have traditionally had. Now, what about execution? So if I'm being honest, listening to your story, you have this new team who you're placing bets on, right? But you have customers that are going to demand execution. So how do you make sure that they get what they need, even though you're sort of taking some risk in doing things a different way?

Darian - 00:13:34:

Well, I think that's also a matter of strategy. I think what lays in the foundation of executing towards the customers and internally is a good strategy. But we had a discussion earlier as well. I think just having a strategy, we've seen many failed attempts of management presenting fancy PowerPoints, numbered charts of what the strategy means. But to actually portion it up to something that is digestible for each and every department is really important. And that is something I have utilized really well is what does this actually mean for our department or you as a field technician, engineer or solution expert? And yeah, you are right, sir. Of course, we were putting a huge bet on them. But if we look at the team now, for example, they are really well skilled with the technical parts that they are doing, of course, and they are getting the support needed to always evolve for the future. And I will always say that. So when it comes to strong customer experience, culture eats strategy for breakfast. So culture always goes first. And then the strategic part is, of course, as important. But I wouldn't say it is in close to what the culture can do with the customer experience or the execution overall of it.

Sarah - 00:14:31:

So you mentioned GlobalConnect is your first role coming out of school. You started as a technician yourself. You've moved pretty quickly through the ranks. And now you're in this leadership position. You said you're 26. What are your thoughts on the value of fresh perspective in this space?

Darian - 00:14:50:

That's a good question. I would say like one of the things that I really would like to implement in the new set is, of course, the way we are approaching the more traditional methodologies of being a leader versus the new modern types of things. It's really important for us as leaders to embrace the fact that there is a lot changing in the world. So adapting to a more modern and enhancing way of actually motivating your employees has significantly been different since a couple of years back. So embracing the fact that we need to be adaptable to those changes as well as a leader and not only expect that our employees follow what we have for kind of leadership methodologies.

Sarah - 00:15:27:

Yeah. What do you think, are there any experiences you've had that are challenging when you're with peers who have been in leadership positions for decades or situations like that?

Darian - 00:15:39:

Yeah. Well, so one of the advantages is, of course, the fact that me myself is the next future of leaders and I'm working with the next generation of field workers as well. So that gives me the ability to have the fresh thinking that they have as well to adapt myself after that. But I will say the challenges are huge, especially many of the field engineers that I currently have in the Nordic setup is my former colleagues as well. I've been working with them on the field and we've been talking shit about management together and all of a sudden I'm leading them. And then there's another aspect of it, which is even more challenging, is that leading leaders as a 26-years-old, that is a really big challenge for me. So sitting around the table and taking decisions based on the strategy and the future of the company overall, with having people around you that basically doesn't trust you, or that you don't get your voice heard, or that you're not considered to be a candidate that can bring the heat to the table. That's a really challenging situation. But trust me, there's nothing better than executing and succeeding in those tricky situations. So you still have to just accept it and go along and do the best out of it.

Sarah - 00:16:39:

Yeah, let the action speak for itself.

Darian - 00:16:41:

Exactly.

Sarah - 00:16:41:

Okay, so let me ask you this. What sort of advice, I guess, or words of caution would you say to someone who has a much more old-school leadership mentality?

Darian - 00:16:58:

To be fair and square, I actually like some parts of the old-school mentality, even though I'm really flexible with my employees when it comes to having remote works or being physically there. I truly feel that touching, feeling, and seeing each other face-to-face is really important. So that's one part that I will keep. But secondly, the only advice I would probably give is that pointing with your whole hand instead of leading the way sometimes isn't the most popular way of doing things today, even though it can be really effective if you are in a result-oriented organization where you actually need results and you're expected to deliver numbers. But otherwise, I would say that is something that really has faded away. And every time I try that approach, it always backfires. So that is one of the things instead of pointing with your hand, grabbing the load with the team and showing them the way is one of the things.

Sarah - 00:17:43:

Yeah. Good.

Sustainability is a topic that impacts each of us personally and plays an increasingly integrated role in the business landscape. From the perspective of how companies comply with and support sustainability requirements to how they aid customers with sustainable offerings or their own initiatives, it’s a topic that impacts just about every area of today’s business. Perhaps one area that is underrepresented though is the intersection of service and sustainability.

To discuss this and more, I recently welcomed back to the UNSCRIPTED podcast Rainer Karcher, sustainability enthusiast, “climate activist in a suit,” and former Chief Sustainability Officer, who has recently departed the corporate world to start helping companies work toward their sustainability objectives through his own organization, Heartprint.

As the Founder and Managing Director of Heartprint, he brings more than 25 years of IT experience from companies like Allianz Technology, IBM, and Siemens AG. His expertise spans support, infrastructure, data centers, service operations, and IT sustainability. For Rainer, sustainability extends beyond environmental protection to encompass a holistic approach aligned with the UN Sustainable Development Agenda, addressing all ESG aspects – and his passion for this work is contagious, so I strongly recommend listening to the full discussion.

There’s Always a “Why” for Sustainability

Let’s start with ensuring we’re all operating from the same understanding that everyone – and every business – should be invested in this topic and committed to taking action. There’s always a “why” for sustainability, it’s just a matter of through which lens the view resonates with you most.

“Start with your own health,” says Rainer. “If you take the SDGs, the Sustainable Development Goals, good health and well-being is part of sustainability. So, this is already a first advantage. The second is, if you for example eat less meat, you help the planet. Even by reducing consumption to maybe once or twice per week, you can consume the higher quality products, helping animal treatment, saving you money, and more. From the perspective of a company, there’s the topic of inclusion – a company that is inclusive has an advantage. If you provide a surrounding for employees to work towards a better future, the growing numbers for whom it’s a private passion will be happier in their jobs – so it can play a role in talent attraction and retention. Then we get into all of the ways these trends are impacting companies, there’s just so many reasons why this matters.”

As you read through the trends we discussed, you’ll see that whether you share a personal passion for this topic, feel invested in leaving a better future for your children, or are looking at it from strictly a business perspective, sustainability matters. There are demands to comply with, but also opportunities to win customer mindshare and marketshare by leading the way, and even create offerings to help customers on their own sustainability journeys.

Current Sustainability Trends

So, what are those trends? In an hour discussion there’s no way to cover everything, but Rainer and I focused on talking about the areas that would be especially relevant for service-centric businesses. Here’s a synopsis:

Regulatory pressures. “With the European Green Deal, but also impacting companies in the U.S. and across the world, there are guidelines impacting how companies do business. Depending on revenue, but going down to even the small business world, is the CSRD, Corporate Sustainability Reporting Directive, and it is replacing the non-financial reporting of the past. This is nothing completely new, but brings a broader and deeper granularity when it comes to sustainability. It contains the typical environmental aspects like carbon footprint, like water consumption, air quality, it goes into biodiversity aspects as well but also goes into social, including pay gaps, diversity, inclusion, accessibility, all those features. And finally, the governance aspect goes into the supply chain aspects. What is the code of conduct of a company to work together throughout the supply chain? It is impacting companies all over the world. We do have, depending on relationships and customer scenarios, for sure, always the need to make things transparent. And this is the biggest achievement of initiatives like CSRD and some others as well. On the other side, it does regulate where investments are going into the part of CSRD and that Green Deal called EU taxonomy. So, this is defining what is sustainable investments. I think the equivalent in the US is a bit the Inflation Reduction Act.”
Increasing Transparency. “Regulations require you to create a transparency on where your emissions are coming from and how you are making progress to further reduce and to get to carbon neutrality in the future, then until 2050 by latest to stick with that 1.5 degree Paris Agreement. To those of you who are not familiar, the objective of that is to limit the global average increase of temperature to 1.5 degrees. To achieve that, you have to look into, for example, the way you travel. In field service, employees normally spend a lot of time on the road. To get to your customers the sooner the better, you mostly aren’t taking any public transport or trains. You jump maybe onto a plane or into a car to get there. This is part of the regulatory for the environmental aspect, but also brings us to finding ways to lower that footprint.”
Lowering Environmental Footprint. “We have to find ways to lower your footprint, meaning maybe changing to electrical vehicles if it's on short ranges or mid ranges. Maybe changing to sustainable aviation fuel if you have to fly and if you have to.” There are also a number of ways in field service to use modern technologies to reduce your environmental footprint. For example, the incorporation of remote service capabilities that allow customer self-service and/or remote resolution help organizations avoid unnecessary on-site visits and also ensure that when a visit is needed, the information to achieve first-time fix has already been gathered. Moreover, technologies like IFS Planning & Scheduling Optimization (PSO) help to maximize efficiency and reduce travel time, helping to make sure you are keeping the footprint that is necessary as small as possible.
Accessibility. “The accessibility aspect in the U.S. is now coming over to Europe. We're quite behind here in Germany and in Europe. We have the European Accessibility Act, which is now enforcing companies starting in summer of next year to make their products and services accessible for anyone. That means inclusiveness for blind people, for people with any kind of mental diseases or disabilities. That is something which affects for sure service and field service as well.”
Human Rights. “In Germany, for example, we've started already last year, the German Supply Chain Act and now the European Union is enhancing that most likely in 2026 with the CSDDD (Corporate Supply Chain Due Diligence Directive). This focuses on the whole aspect on human rights treatments, children, labor, modern slavery and so on, throughout the whole supply chain. If I'm, for example, working with a call center in India, I have to ensure being the company who is providing the service, that even if it's a third or fourth tier supplier, that they are treating humans right and providing fair payment the way it is defined in the local area region. So, I have to ensure this is in my own responsibility and not just handed to the supply chain.”
Investment Decisions. “I don't make an investment into a company which I have to be afraid might not be existent in a year or two. I'd like to understand that whatever they do is resilient, in regard of the whole supply chain and even reputational aspects. I do not want to work with a company, invest into a company, or insure a company I might see a risk of getting into press and media in a negative way, or maybe in a year or two and they go bankrupt. I don't know for the U.S. market, but I know for the European and in particular German market, banking is heavily looking at who is getting loans and for what conditions. Companies who have a clear sustainability commitment, the target setting, and resilience and transparency already, they get loans to far better conditions than companies who not.”
Supply Chain. “A perfect example we've seen already throughout the pandemic. If you remember that ship blocking the Panama Channel for a couple of days, brought a lot of companies really to their limits. If I have an understanding of my suppliers throughout the whole chain and transparency of what is their impact and what could bring my supply chain to risk. With human rights, the fashion industry has been an example of poor working conditions and reputational aspects. Every company leader, every C-level in a company, whether it's 50, 500, 5,000, 500,000 employees, has to take responsibility.”
Sustainable Product Design. “If you design a product in the way that you're first of all able to repair it quite well, and when it's not able to be repaired anymore can be fully reused, you are acknowledging that our resources on Earth are limited. We don't have unlimited resources. In many cases today, we produce something, we use it, and at the end of the life cycle we throw it away often to landfill, often exported to sub-Saharan Africa or elsewhere, and we just waste and dump. This has to change. If we design products for longevity and to where we can dismantle components, separate metals from plastics, and so on, it will not only lower costs but create more circularity and lessen the environmental harm.”
Circular Economy’s Service Potential. The circular economy is not only better for the environment, but it can present opportunity for service providers. In a recent post on LinkedIn, Lucas Rigotto, CSO, Liquid and Powder Technologies at GEA Group, shared how he feels many research organizations and news sources discussing sustainability miss the opportunity to touch on the intersection with service. He says, “In some of our recent Sustainability and Circular Economy discussions, I came away feeling incredibly energized about the crucial role service plays in our organizational goals but even more on impact for the industry to be more efficient, profitable and really deliver outcomes from a circular approach. Service is in a prime position to help our customers achieve their sustainability goals by focusing on upgrades, modernizations, service contracts, and digital solutions. We’re ensuring products run smoothly and efficiently for longer periods, reducing waste, and conserving resources. How do we do it? Upgrades and modernizations give our customers’ assets a new lease on life. Service contracts provide ongoing care to keep everything in top shape and minimize unnecessary downtime. Our digital solutions bring process insights, help optimize their operations with our autopilot like applications and real-time monitoring and predictive maintenance, ensuring our customers and their industries are always one step ahead. By adhering to these practices, we’re not just assisting our customers; we’re also making a significant positive impact on the planet. We keep pushing forward, embracing the 5Rs, and demonstrating how our strategic service activities are paving the way for a more sustainable future. It’s a win-win for the environment, for our business and mostly for our customers and society!”
Artificial Intelligence. “If you look into the digital and IT world, everyone is talking AI. Everyone is looking into trying to find real use cases for AI. I just recently had a service experience myself where I called my mobile provider with a need and after about five minutes of conversation, realized I wasn’t talking with a human. We are just at the beginning of that – AI capabilities are tremendously changing the way we live, the way we work, what we do and how we do things. In service areas, you can take the simple first-level support and free up the people doing that on a day-to-day basis to work on creative, innovative things. From that aspect, there is a huge opportunity to improve our lives with artificial intelligence. On the flip side of the coin, it always comes with a price. And AI is consuming already a huge amount of energy. For example, if you Google yourself versus putting your name into ChatGPT4, ChatGPT will bring up more or less the same results but costs you 100 times more energy than Google does, and this goes for any AI solution. The energy consumption is incredible, and it requires a huge amount of data centers to be built. There’s also the ethical aspects of artificial intelligence, including the treatment of people entering the data, the issue of bias, and the question on its impact on humanity as a whole. If it sounds like I'm an enemy of AI, I am not. I am quite sure we need to have it. It's part of a solution, but we have to treat it right.”

The Issue of Greenwashing

I was curious to ask Rainer whether, with the mandated increases in transparency, greenwashing is still a major issue. According to him, greenwashing won’t go away. “As long as you have humans who are intelligent and smart at using the right words and the right visuals, there will always be greenwashing from an outside perspective,” he says. “Things like the CSRD are aimed to reduce that and it is being enhanced with a clean claims directive to regulate how you have to set up your strategy to be allowed to talk on carbon neutral or net zero. For example, to stick with that, you have to reduce your own footprint by 90% and only 10% is allowed to be compensated and offset with certificates. If you have to compensate more, then you are not allowed officially to use the term net zero. Does it keep all the companies away from greenwashing? Surely not I’m pretty confident if you keep your eyes open and trust your gut feeling, you’ll be able to identify those who are serious in their efforts and those who are doing the check-the-box thing.”

What’s Next?

Curious what Rainer anticipates the next 12 months will bring in terms of the trends discussed above, and more? “Twelve months will definitely be the time in which we’ll see AI dramatically increasing. I think we need to have a way bigger focus on resilience and the awareness that what we’ve already seen in terms of the effects of climate crisis aren’t going away. We’re still focused on things like transparency for the as-is, but we need to put a dramatically fast focus on what will happen in the future. So AI will have a huge role in prediction and helping us adapt to situations and find alternatives. I also think the world is connecting more and more – we as humanity and as the enterprise world are connecting globally. We have a global issue, so we have to treat it as such – not as competitive advantage, not with intellectual properly, but with collaboration and working towards one goal together.”

And with that, you can likely understand why Rainer named his new company Heartprint. His enthusiasm for and view around this work comes from the heart, and companies who are most committed to doing the work will know that along with creating a strategy and a blueprint, you will be most successful if you genuinely care.

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