Episode 350

Host Sarah Nicastro welcomes Jeffrey Yip, Associate Professor of Management and Organizational Studies at Simon Fraser University, who teaches leadership in the Executive MBA and Management of Technology programs, conducts research that addresses managerial challenges in work relationships and leading change, and has contributed to resources like HBR and Psychology Today. Jeff shares the need for leaders to listen to organizational pain through a process called “painstorming” and explains how doing so can significantly improve change management.

What You'll Learn

• What organizational pain is and why it often goes unheard by senior leaders
• Why effective storytelling in change leadership starts with listening, not messaging
• How the practice of “painstorming” helps leaders identify real barriers to change before jumping to solutions
• The PAIN framework (Priorities, Anxiety, Inertia, Noise) and how to apply it in real organizational conversations
• Why leaders must slow down, validate experiences, and reduce friction to successfully mobilize change
• How painstorming can significantly improve adoption and trust—especially during AI and technology-driven change

About the Guest(s)

Jeffrey Yip is an Associate Professor of Management and Organizational Studies at Simon Fraser University, where he teaches leadership in the Executive MBA and Management of Technology programs.

His research and teaching focus on helping leaders navigate change by strengthening listening, relationships, and human connection at work. Jeffrey works closely with technology leaders and executives, including through programs with CIO Canada, and his insights have been featured in Harvard Business Review and Psychology Today.

Jeff is the creator of the “Listen and Build” approach and a leading voice on the role of listening, organizational pain, and empathy in effective change leadership.

Follow Along

• 00:00 – Introduction to painstorming and change leadership
• 04:06 – Why listening is the foundation of effective leadership
• 07:00 – Understanding organizational pain
• 12:42 – Painstorming and the PAIN framework
• 33:45 – How painstorming enables successful change
• 39:53 – Applying painstorming to AI adoption and the future of leadership

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