Tag: podcast

February 22, 2023 | 27 Mins Read

TKElevator’s Path to Predictive Logistics

February 22, 2023 | 27 Mins Read

TKElevator’s Path to Predictive Logistics

Sarah welcomes Ivo Siebers, Sr. Vice President of Global Logistics at TKElevator, to discuss the company’s journey to removing as much uncertainty as possible from its spare parts operations and the impressive results that they’ve achieved.

Sarah Nicastro: Welcome to the Future of Field Service podcast, I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Today we are going to be talking to Ivo Siebers, who is the Senior Vice President of Global Logistics at TKElevator, about the company's path to predictive logistics. Ivo is the senior vice president of Global Logistics at TKElevator, and he and I met at Field Service Europe late last year and had a conversation about the journey the company is on to really modernize and transform its logistics operation, and he is here today to share some of that insight and perspective with you all. So Ivo, thank you so much for being here.

Ivo Siebers: Thank you.

Sarah Nicastro: So before we get into the predictive logistics topic, can you just tell our listeners a little bit about yourself, your role, and maybe just give a brief overview of TK Elevator in case anyone isn't familiar?

Ivo Siebers: Okay. Thank you Sarah. Let me start to introduce myself. I'm 30 years in construction supply industry. I worked in R&D in product management, product line management, branch manager. I was service manager so I occupied a lot of different position in this area. Since more than 20 years, I'm IN the elevator industry and since 13 years with TKElevator, formerly known as ThyssenKrupp Elevator.

So TKElevator is an elevator and escalator company. We are producing elevators and escalators and we also offer after-sales services. My current position within TKE is I'm head of global logistics and this means I'm responsible for the service supply chain or to be a little bit more concrete, the spare parts business around the world.

Sarah Nicastro: Which you described to me when we spoke is, the overall goal of the journey is really taking something very unpredictable and making it predictable. So when we think about logistics and spare parts and supply chain, particularly over the last few years, right, it's been very unpredictable. So to really accomplish that objective, to put as much predictability into this ecosystem as possible, what does that mean in terms of some of the ways that TKE needs to modernize? So what is the importance of embarking on this journey and looking to reduce as much as you can of that unpredictability?

Ivo Siebers: Well, that's a very broad question. So my understanding of our business and here I'm concentrating mainly on the after-sales part, which is about 50% of our revenue stream, we have a common interest with our customer, which is we want to avoid breakdowns or down times of the equipment that are under our maintenance. And everything unpredicted means there is a breakdown, there is something where we have to react instead of act and that has the potential of increasing the number of breakdowns but also the time that the breakdown takes to be fixed.

I think it's in the utmost interest of everybody that we reduce that to the minimum. To doing so, we must understand better the systematics patterns, how it occurs, and that's exactly what we try to do. We try to better understand our portfolio, we try to understand better each and every type of equipment that is under maintenance with us and try to use this knowledge, this big data, to make predictions in order to avoid that.

Sarah Nicastro: Okay, that makes sense. What it makes me think about, Ivo, is when we think about the overall landscape of logistics and particularly spare parts, inventory and things like that, over the last couple of years there's been a ton of headlines about the volatility and having trouble getting inventory in certain places or having delays in getting things that you need, et cetera.

What you are saying, what it makes me think about is any company cannot remove all unpredictability, but you can focus on, internally. So this is kind of what I think you're saying, is there might be things outside of TKE that you can't control, but the focus is to make sure that your own operations, you are looking at how to remove as much of that unpredictability as possible. Does that make sense?

Ivo Siebers: It makes sense, but I would phrase it a little bit broader, and we had the experience of the last two and a half, three years with a lot of interruptions of the supply chains globally. And it's more, as you know, what you will need in the future that better you can tackle that by building up stocks upfront by being the first of ordering critical stocks and by rebalancing the stocks around your own network where it's really needed.

Sarah Nicastro: So basically, having visibility into what you have currently, having the intelligence based on that visibility into what you will need allows you to do more forward-thinking, forecasting and planning so that you get ahead of some of the external challenges. Is that what you're saying?

Ivo Siebers: Exactly. What I'm saying is I think when we are talking about prediction, we are usually talking about digitization, about condition monitoring, so trying to figure out when which equipment breaks and try to avoid that. What we are doing, it's a little bit the opposite. What we are doing is we are using all the data points that we have anyway, so we are using the data points of the consumption of material, of the equipment in order to predict for the future what is needed and put it into the cars of the technicians upfront and direct them also beforehand to take a closer look into certain components before they break.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, okay, that makes sense. So let's kind of rewind a step and talk about the environment that you've moved away from. So if we think about what the before looked like versus the ideal state that you're working toward, what were some of the biggest challenges, and I guess the indicators that you needed to modernize and take a different approach?

Ivo Siebers: I think before we can discuss that, I have to give you a short journey how the typical workplace of the technician with TKE, a service technician of TKE, looks like. So usually, each technician maintains the number of equipment over a longer period of time, so we are talking about years. TKE is a multi-brand service company, so we are servicing not only the equipment that we produce ourselves, but also equipment from our competition. So we are maintaining each and every brand, which makes it even more complex.

But in essence, the technician has a number of equipment that he maintains that he's responsible for. Most of the technicians go to the sites by car when they're doing maintenance and they try to fix everything that they can during their regular maintenance visits. Nevertheless, there are incidents, there are call-outs where the system breaks down. And when he goes there, often he can only fix it with the help of exchanging spare parts. That makes a huge difference, whether his car is equipped already with the right equipment, or whether he has to order it and come back to fix it.

So typically, how the process works is if the technician sees that something is broken or will break, he will try to identify the part and get the part ordered and collects it somewhere, and brings it back to site and fixes it. That is the normal procedure. What we are trying to imply with the system or what we try to do with our system is to bring the parts already to the technician before he needs it, so that he do not have to order it. He has it in his car already, he consumes it, and he can fix the elevator in one stop.

Sarah Nicastro: Okay. So this is a journey that you are still in the midst of. Can you talk a little bit about where you've gotten to today and then what the complete ideal state looks like, so where you're ultimately heading?

Ivo Siebers: When you look at TKE, TKE is built up of a lot of different country organizations with different setups, and what we have done is we defined target states that fits for all that can be applied to each and every country organizations of ourselves. But obviously, we couldn't roll it out in one big leap, but we tested and piloted it in different countries and we are now in the rollout state, country by country.

So the current status is that we have rolled it out already in some countries, and there, we have the feedback of the improvements so we can prove what you can gain from implementing it, and we're currently rolling it out further to other countries.

Sarah Nicastro: So just to understand a little bit more, if you go back to the initial process, so you mentioned that the technician would need to identify what part is needed, order the part, pick up the part somewhere and then go and make the repair. Are they determining what's needed with a visit on-site?

Ivo Siebers: That's the normal process. Yeah, it could be during a regular maintenance visit, so they do maintenance and see that a part could break and they order the part before it breaks. Or it's really a call-out where the elevator is already, where the part is already broke, where failure happens, and then he's going out not really knowing what to fix, identifies the root cause for the failure, identifies whether you need a part, identifies the part, orders the part and comes back when the part is arriving to him.

Sarah Nicastro: And in that situation, I don't know if you know this, but how often, percentage-wise, do you think they had the part needed versus needing to order it?

Ivo Siebers: Before or after?

Sarah Nicastro: Before.

Ivo Siebers: Before we started the initiative, and we call it spare part business excellence, so that's the overall name that we are running it under, we had an investigation in two bigger established service countries, country organizations. And we figured out that in the car, the technician, in 10% of our cases, the technician can find the part he needs for a fix, then he would think, "Okay, we have branch around the country, "so you would find it in the branch inventories, but that only fixed it within 20% of our cases. With the new system, we are now at 80%, so it's a magnitude.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, absolutely. So 80% before they had to order that part, and now 80% of the time they have the part. Okay?

Ivo Siebers: Correct.

Sarah Nicastro: But just going back to the process itself, if I remember this correctly from our initial conversation, the other change is that before, when they would order that part, they then had to pick it up from the branch location. And now, rather than going through that longer process of identifying, ordering, waiting, picking up, going back, you are looking to forecast what will be needed, have it in advance, and proactively stock into their vehicles so that they have those things that first visit. Correct?

Ivo Siebers: Correct. So let me explain the entire process, how it's designed. So we really tried to get a seamless digital solution end-to-end, from the technician to the technician. It starts with a technician who is onsite, who needs a part. He has a catalog, a digital catalog in which he can identify the parts. That's extremely important for us because we have a variety of approximately 100,000 different parts, or per country organization maybe 20 or 30,000 different parts that might be broken.

So it's important to give him a good tool in the sense that he can do an accurate identification, meaning he can identify the article number. With that, he can then set a request to a central warehouse which fulfills the request. And instead of sending it to the branch as formerly done, they would send it directly to him. That might be a pick point, that might be the car trunk, that might be a PUDO, that might be a location close to his workplace. Wherever it suits, it'll be sent as close as possible to him in order to save his travel time.

Further on, we are using the data of consumption of his route and also routes around in order to understand which equipment has which need at what time for spare parts, and try to configure his car stock in the way that it fits best to his specific route, so to the elevators that he maintains regularly. That is a kick that allows us to go away from this one-to-one order and fulfillment to replenishment, replenishing of his car and then reduce the orders that he has to place to a minimum.

Sarah Nicastro: That makes sense. So going back to thinking about the progress that you've made and the benefits of doing this from the before to today. So just to clarify for listeners, we said that before 10% of the time he had the part needed another 10% of the time, so 20% of the time he could find the part nearby and get it from one of the local branches, 80% of the time he had to order, wait, pick up and go back. Okay?

Now in the updated system, 80% of the time he already has the part he needs, and the other 20% is fulfilling that request. Let me also ask though, with the change in how those orders are fulfilled, how much faster does the technician get the part needed when he does need to place an order? So I'm just thinking about the difference between ordering, it goes to the branch, picking up, versus it going directly to the technician.

Ivo Siebers: Yes, it's a full digital process. Each request that the technician sets to the central warehouse is immediately in the warehouse, and there's a cutoff time in the afternoon until if he places the request until then, he will have it in his car or at his pick-up point early in the morning, before he starts, so that's what we are fulfilling today.

Sarah Nicastro: Okay.

Ivo Siebers: Obviously, there are exceptions of where you need the part immediately, let's say an elevator who is going directly into an emergency room in a hospital. There, we would find a solution to bring it directly there and install it during nighttime, if necessary, but that are really exceptions.

Sarah Nicastro: So it's less than 24 hours from the time that the technician submits the request until they have the part in their hands, for the most part.

Ivo Siebers: Actually, we designed three types of service level and the technician can choose from them. One is next morning, one is immediately, and one is planned, then he gets the part when he wants the part to have, because it doesn't make sense to bring out the parts to him if he needs it only next month.

Sarah Nicastro: Right, okay. That makes sense. So the other question, I'm just thinking about how to phrase this in a way that is clear, so bear with me. The other question I have is thinking about the predictability of parts, and so how much you've been able to evolve to using all of the data that you have access to on usage, typical product-related insights on the average duration of how long a certain part lasts, et cetera, plus the technician's individual portfolio of what they're servicing.

How much have you been able to move to this world of looking ahead and planning in advance? So what I'm thinking is yes, you still have this 20% of time that they're ordering a part, 80% of the time they already have it in their car. But overall, if you think about how you're getting ahead of, like we talked about at the beginning, what you need to order from different suppliers and doing that in a way that allows you to meet those SLAs, right?

I mean, the only way it's possible to meet those three SLAs you spoke about is if you are already doing a good job of stocking parts in your distribution centers, because otherwise, you would be running into situations where the next morning isn't happening because you're not doing a good job of evaluating the demand you need for parts to have them already available in the distribution centers.

So how has that process changed in terms of the forecasting and planning so that you are kind of getting ahead of the curve to make sure you're doing a good job of stocking things at these distribution centers to make this possible on the sort of last mile?

Ivo Siebers: That's actually a very good question. Actually, we learned ourselves a lot during this process, during our first piloting phase. And one of the things that we learned was that all the biases that we had about our business being already quite okay or quite optimized were totally wrong. So as I said, 10% of everybody, the former procedure was that the technician together with his field supervisor determined what parts he puts into his car. Everybody was thinking as they are so close to the customer, so close to the equipment, that they know what they're doing. But they are no specialists and they do seldom really put a lot of time into it. So this bias, we broke through, and it actually showed how seldom really they got a hit.

The second bias is that you need more stocks in order to increase your service level and what we are seeing now is that we have already reduced at the warehouse 30% of our Stocks. And if we can trust the predictions, we can go another 50% down with higher SLAs than before. So there's the takeaways, there's a lot of unused stock lying around that is there because we don't know what stock we need in which location. And what we are doing, we have a quite well-working inventory planning system that is fed by different systems, our ERP system, our field operation system. It has some preconditions set in into, and this plans each and every location instantaneously. So it plans which part should be positioned best in which location, and by that, you can optimize extremely well your inventory.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, that's really interesting because we talk a lot about this idea that in the last, let's say, 10 years, we've talked so much about how important... Data, data, data, the importance of data. Right? But now, we talk about the fact that data in and of itself really doesn't do much, right? It's the intelligence you're able to turn it into that is impactful. And a lot of companies struggle with that, especially the more data they have, the harder it is to identify what data is useful.

And this is a really good example of taking data from, like you said, different systems, consolidating it, and gleaning that insight from it that is helping you make a significant impact on the business, both in fulfilling those spare part SLAs for the technicians, which is helping them to improve first-time fix and mean time to repair, I mean I have to assume.

And then also, reducing the inventory stock that you have while improving the inventory availability that the technicians have of what they need, when they need it. So it's a really good case study in terms of taking a bunch of data that's being gathered from all of these different places, and making a really good use of that data converting it into intelligence that's helping you make really specific positive impact on the business.

Ivo Siebers: Let me answer with my takeaways from my experiences here. I think we have a lot of data already in our companies and we talk about data, not information. So data in the company are of different qualities, that was also something we learned. And I think you can't make compromises in the quality of the data, that is already one of the big hurdles in order to realize something as we have done it.

So you have to be extremely strict, garbage in, garbage out. You have to be strict at the point of entrance that you get correct data in the system. And think about, we have 25,000 technicians, 25,000 technicians have to be disciplined, trained to do it correctly. It's not an easy task, it's really not an easy task. They have never done it, they are not IT specialists, but you rely on the quality of their input. And that makes it so difficult to implement.

Yes, I think we have a lot of data but of different qualities. So first you must ask yourself, "Is what I'm seeing really what is a representation of the reality, or is this corrupt?" And then you have to clean it up. A big hurdle, really one of the very big hurdles. Then the second thing is you have to make sure that if you design an end-to-end process, you must be aware that you are crossing border lines between different functional silos.

And usually, at the end of each silo, things fall down and at the beginning of the next silo, they are picked up and worked on again. And that, you have to avoid. So you really have to design a process that seamlessly works end-to-end, and where everybody relies on the quality of the work that has been done before. And this is also not in our genes, so this trust is also not in our genes. So it's a huge transformation process to design such a system in an existing elevator company.

Sarah Nicastro: Those are excellent points, and I think that the point about data cannot be overemphasized. I think that that's something that a lot of organizations, when they embark on a journey like this, they don't account for enough time, they don't understand what the work might look like. To your point, when you talked about the biases earlier, they may overestimate the quality of the data they have and then not be prepared to face the reality of what it actually is. And so then, companies can get really frustrated but there's no way to avoid that bulk of work if the goal is to achieve these outcomes.

And I think the point you made about this end-to-end process is something that in service is increasingly important, because we see more and more sort of focus on the overall customer experience or customer journey, which means that internally we have to look at more of those end-to-end systems and processes. We can't be good in one silo, poor in another, and expect the overall experience to be a positive one. And so this idea of going through that change, of those functions really working together and being able to depend on one another is a really important point as well.

Ivo Siebers: And it also, I think it's as a side effect that we see, you not only increase the competency on all levels about digitalization or you make it to something that they start believing in, but also it's something about the self-esteem going into the next project. If you have such an experience done already, you are open for the next one.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, absolutely. There was a podcast that I had early on when we started doing these, and it was a gentleman named Greg Lush. And he spoke about this concept of digital reputation and this idea of how important that digital reputation is when you have any sort of digital transformation initiative within the business. When you don't handle it well, the ripple effect that causes in the distrust your employees have of your ability to execute change makes everyone after that much harder.

And on the flip side, when you do this hard work that you're speaking of, you really confront those biases, you do the hard work of the data integrity and getting everything the way it should be, you really work on breaking down those silos and getting everyone to work together, the outcome of that is not only visible in the amazing results you've achieved of really flipping from 80% unavailability to 80% availability, but also in how your employees feel about your ability as a company to introduce tools and change that actually help them. Because to your point, when it's time for the next thing, they have a trust and a belief in what TKE can do that makes them a lot more open minded, and makes that next change just a little bit easier to accomplish.

Ivo Siebers: That's another point that I think is important. When we talk about digitalization, often it's connected to job reduction, cutting down costs and so on. And I would like to give it a little bit different perspective. So as you see with the examples that I made, it's not really, we are still growing, so what we achieve with the efficiency gains we are putting into more workload for the people. So we use the time with the same people, we are not reducing headcounts there.

In addition, I think we should have to look a little bit ahead we have some baby boomer generation which goes out of business during the next years. Everybody is talking about lack of talent, especially for the technical jobs. Here's a possibility, digitalization gives us a possibility not only to fill in the gap, but also, and we have to do it now, to codify the knowledge of the people who are going. And I think that are also two aspects that we have to think when we talk about digitalization that are important.

Sarah Nicastro: Absolutely. Yeah, I think that's a great point. It's about working smarter, right? I think with the point you made about the talent gap and all of the struggles, companies across the world are having to bring people into these roles at the pace they need to. Technicians should not be concerned for their jobs, that's not what this is about. It's about efficiency for the sake of not wasting people's time and not just burning through money just unnecessarily and not delivering the customer experience that you are quite capable of delivering if you just use these tools.

That's what it's about, it's not about getting rid of anyone. It's just about working smarter and allowing you then to serve more need with either the same amount of people or being able to grow and expand with the same amount of people. So I think there's this unnecessary fear of, "Automation is here to take my job." It's an often an outdated perception. I think it's really, there's plenty of work to go around, it's just about doing it in a way that is smart and allows them to shine in a way.

Instead of showing up and assessing the situation and saying, "Okay, customer, now I need to order this part, wait for it to come in, pick it up, I'll be back in however long," they're showing up, and 80% of the time they're getting the job done and they're fixing what needs to be fixed and they're achieving that higher customer satisfaction. I mean, that has to make them feel better about what they're doing day to day. So there's a lot of really positive points that come out of this for the technician itself as well.

Sorry, I was just going to say one last thing, which is I think when digital transformation is done well, what's really interesting is it's mutually beneficial to the customer, the company, and the frontline worker. There's things to gain for all of those stakeholders. It's just a matter of making sure you're looking at that change from the context of how it benefits all parties, not just one party.

Ivo Siebers: I just wanted to expand and give an example for something which hit us unexpectedly. When we first discussed this quite broad new concept, there were a lot of discussions about, "Oh, we are giving the technician quite a bit of authority. He's ordering the parts, he's warehousing, in a way, his car, he's consuming the parts, he's receiving the parts and all these data points he has to do accurately. So we are expanding his area of responsibility quite a bit." And we thought, "Okay, then we go into discussions about increasing salary. Will he ask for more? Will he accept this responsibility? Will he fill his car unnecessarily with material because he can now?" That was one of the questions.

Another question was if we are cutting out the branch out of the entire process, because it's an end-to-end process between the central organization that warehouses the parts and the technician and nobody is anymore in between. We thought that the field supervisor who formerly did all this work would protest because they can't see any more really what his technician is doing when he's doing repairs. And we did a pilot in Brazil. Brazil is a big and very experienced service organization for TKE, and we did a pilot there. And guess what? It was exactly the opposite.

So we started the program and I talked myself with quite a few of the technicians and they said, "Great that somebody is doing it. We always have to telephone for the parts, we're in the front of the customer and we have to rectify this part not coming. Now we are in the driver's seat and we know when the part is coming, we can directly give the information to the customer." So they feel really empowered and they took it really positive. And from the field supervisor side, also the opposite, they said, "Nobody likes this task, so taking it away from us, it's great." So sometimes you are a victim to your own biases, when you discuss things.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, that's a great point. And I think you want that frontline worker to be someone who is capable of portraying your brand really well with customers. And if you just think about, as human beings, are they better equipped to do that when they're this resource that the company feels it needs to micromanage, it always has to be watching, it's questioning what they do, versus this resource that's empowered and trusted?

I'm sure there's always anomalies. Maybe you'll come into a situation where there is this one individual employee that doesn't handle that responsibility well, but generally speaking, I think that employee feels more valued and more appreciated because they are in the driver's seat and that is reflected in how they interact with customers then. I mean, there's just a real difference of someone, I think the energy they have showing up to a customer site when they have this feeling of being trusted and being empowered. I just think that's a different energy that they'll give off to the customers they're interacting with. So I think that's a really good point, a lot of good lessons learned.

Ivo Siebers: Actually, want to add, where we put a lot of emphasis on and put also a lot of time into was to think about each and every stakeholder. So first of all, the technician, if he don't likes it, he will give corrupt data. You can't run such a system without the help of the technician and full acceptance of him. So what really is in for him?

So really sitting down, building a pitch for him, really trying to address all the uncertainties, but also what is in for him, and really get a good pitch together for him and for the branch, for the field supervisor, for the warehouse. So for all different stakeholders to understand really what drives them and what can you achieve for them. This is really an important step that we took and it proved to be extremely important,

Sarah Nicastro: I think it's such an important step, because a lot of times, companies either, they go out communicating the benefit of the change to the company, which some people are going to care about but a lot aren't. And then other times, they come up with this generic why, right? Something that's just, "Well, you should care because X," without really, what you're talking about is personalizing that change management message for every role that the solution will impact.

And that's when taking the time to put yourself in their shoes and think about what does it really mean for them, I think is such an important aspect of managing change well. Because number one, it shows them you took the time to understand them as an individual function instead of just throwing out this, "Here's why we're doing this and you should comply." I always say there's a difference between commitment and compliance, and that difference a lot of times is how well you manage that change.

You don't want employees that are just complying, because at some point, the pressure will be off to comply and then they might not care if they put in the data the right way or they do the steps they need to do. You want them to be committed to the new process because they see the value in it. And then, that's when you have technicians that are always following what they need to do or using the tool the way it's intended to be used because they want to. That should be the goal, not just force or getting them to do what you're saying to do just because, so I think that's a really good point.

Ivo Siebers: And I think you also have to, during the implementation process and afterwards, you really have to give them a word. So you have to go there and really ask them honestly about the experience and take it with you. You might not change everything that they want to be changed, but at least you have to take it seriously and answer it. And the good thing with technicians is, at least with the technicians I met during that, is that they usually are quite honest. They are seeing everything from their own perspective, that's clear, but usually, once you have some warm-up behind you, then you get quite qualified answers to questions.

Sarah Nicastro: And if you're open to really listening in that implementation phase, you may pick up on some points that make a significant difference in how the solution is adopted in the wider rollout. Right? I mean, to your point, not every piece of feedback will be relevant or addressable, but there may be some that if you are listening or points that you hadn't considered or will make the end product a lot better.

This is, again, where I think some of the aspects of change management that are tough are coming back to, "Are you willing to put the time in, to personalize the message, to actually listen?" Employees are smart enough to know, "Are you asking me my feedback just because you're trying to pacify me and make me feel like you care enough to listen, or are you asking me because you genuinely care and if I have something important to say, you may actually take action on it?" I think people can tell the difference, and if you are willing to really listen, there could be some very helpful things that come out of that, so that's a good point.

So Ivo, last question is really just around, you've made significant progress here, but if you think about the future, I'm talking three to five years from now, something like that, and you think about what else may change in the logistics landscape, what do you see coming along? What further refinements or changes, what do you think will be sort of the next version of the ideal state that you're working toward?

Ivo Siebers: I think in the nearer future we are planning to do something quite obvious, actually, we are working already on it. So the system that we are using at the moment is working with data from the past, so we are using consumption data plus something else, mix it together, do some big data analytics and then come out with a prediction. But in essence, we are looking back to predict the future.

The next step will be, you might have heard about our condition monitoring system, we call it Max, and Max is throwing out condition monitoring data and we are working on algorithms that give us hints of future events, future failures. And obviously, that would be helpful for us to integrate that also into our prediction methods, so that we not only look to the past but also into the future where the condition monitoring, that's, I think, the nearer future that we are working on at the moment for the concept.

Obviously, as byproduct of everything we are doing, we get a lot of data and a lot of insights about equipment, about failure, pattern of equipment. And when you think that further ahead, it'll give you also very good ideas for the route planning, for time, assumptions for certain tasks. You might vary your work plan depending on the necessities of the equipment because of your experiences on that, you might have different contract models for different equipment. I can see a lot of use cases for those data.

What you also can do is you can use the data in order to re-engineer or synthesize some sort of service problem. So as you know what was consumed, you could also take a bunch of the consumed parts and say, "Okay, this is the equipment I'm maintaining," without really looking into it. This is also important for old equipment, where you might not have the data available. So there are a lot of things that I can see in the future, without talking about 3D printing and about picture recognition and about artificial realities and so on.

I think one point I see definitely for the future too is, as I said, we are looking into the future where talents are scarce and where a lot of knowledge get lost, where a huge amount of people will go out of business. So I think we have to find ways now to conserve this knowledge, and digitalization, digital tools, virtual reality gives us also a huge opportunity to do so and we should start using it.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, very good points. Well, I mean, kudos to you for everything you've accomplished so far. It's really impressive to hear how far you've come from the before to today, and then to also think about some of the ways you can continue to refine what you're doing to make further improvements, so I really appreciate you coming and sharing and it was a great conversation.

Ivo Siebers: Thank you for having me.

Sarah Nicastro: Absolutely. You can find more by visiting us at futureoffieldservice.com. Be sure to register for the Future of Field Service INSIDER, which will deliver our most recent content to your inbox every two weeks. Also, take a look at the schedule for the 2023 Future of Field Service Live Tour. We are visiting six countries this year. The events are free to attend, so be sure to register for the location nearest you. You can find all of that on the website. The Future of Field Service Podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more at ifs.com. As always, thank you for listening.

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Future of Field Service Nashville + IFS Connect Highlights

Sarah welcomes Dr. Elizabeth Moran, former VP of Global Talent Development at ADP who now works as a consultant and executive coach and is passionate about helping teams and organizations successfully navigate and evolve through change using a neuro-transformational approach. She gives an inside look into her new book, Forward: Leading Your Team Through Change, and offers honest advice for change management success.

Sarah Nicastro: Welcome to the Future of Field Service podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Today, we're going to have a very interesting conversation about the neuroscience of leading through change. If you've been following the podcast or our website content for long, you know that change management is one of the biggest topics we discussed because it is one of the biggest challenges that you all have. So, we're going to have a great conversation about that today. I am thrilled to be joined by Dr. Elizabeth Moran, who is formerly the Vice President of Global Talent Development at ADP. She's an experienced leader, consultant, and executive coach, passionate about helping teams and organizations successfully navigate through change with her organization, Elizabeth Moran Transformation.

Dr. Moran partners with Fortune 500 companies all the way to technology startups and works to support everything from large scale to small scale transformations. She holds a master's and doctoral degree in clinical psychology from the California Institute of Integral Studies, a PCC level coaching certification from the International Coaching Federation, and a certification as a neuro-transformational coach. Ooh. She's also the author of the upcoming release or maybe brand-new release, Forward: Leading Your Team Through Change. Oh, that was a mouthful. Thank you for bearing with me. Moran. Got it. And if it's okay, I'll switch to Elizabeth. Is that okay? Okay, perfect. Okay. Elizabeth, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it. That was a lot to cover, but obviously, you came to my attention through your brand-new book, which is really exciting. But then in looking at your bio, you have a lot of experience with very relevant organizations, some of which I'm sure are listeners of the podcast.

So, that's very exciting. We're talking about change management today and how leaders tackle that, "What do we need to do to equip leaders to successfully manage change?" I think there was a time where change management as a topic was almost like a project. You have a project. If you understand the importance, you have a change management process with that project, and then you move on. Today, it feels a lot more like an ongoing necessity. What are your thoughts on that first?

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: I think you touched on two important things that people are noticing more and more about. One is that when you think about change management ... I say change leadership. I couldn't care less which you use. There's two pieces to that. You highlighted the one, which is super important, is being able to manage the project aspects of a change. But then there's managing the people aspects of the change. And so those are two different things. And oftentimes, people focus on the project aspects, rightly so, at the expense of, Well, are people getting it? Are we setting them up for success, including leaders?" And so when you think about that, that's important.

The second piece that you mentioned is it's constant ongoing change, not only multiple changes, but so many changes are years. They continue. They're rolling. And so leaders are faced with a change that changes and changes again. Actually, there's a quote in there from Ashley who is a service leader in the book, who was saying, "Yes, that's exactly what we're saying, 'Hey, thanks for this change, but just so you know, this change is going to be changing, and then we'll change it again.'" And we all laughed. But it was true.

Sarah Nicastro: That's exactly what I mean. When I started in this space, it was 15 years ago. Yes, there was change, but it was a more static landscape compared to where we are today. You know what I mean? And so if there was change, it was done, it was stable for a time, and then you moved on to something else. Today, the hits, they keep coming. Right? If it isn't one thing, it's another thing. It's this thing. And now, this thing we just changed is changing again. And then it's just that we live in a very real time, constant flow of information, constant flow of needing to react, et cetera. So, there's this, I think, increased intensity around it and also amplified need for leaders to really get a grasp on the people part of that change leadership.

So, the volume and the intensity has sped up. I think leaders are reacting in a variety of ways. Some maybe intuitively are better at it than others. Some are really struggling, but we need to make sure that we're equipping people to navigate this because it's not going away. That intensity is likely here to stay. Here's where I want to start, and then I want to get into some of the details. In your book, you are giving five simplified neuroscience concepts that every change leader can and should use to their advantage. Let's use that as a starting point, if you can talk us through those five concepts.

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: The first thing I tried to do with the book is to understand that everybody is overwhelmed. And so it was very important to me to provide something where it wasn't just, "Hey, here's the concept, one, two. Here are some things you can do, which is why I call it a playbook. So, here are some steps." And then number three, which to me was often missing, is, "Here are the words you can say. You have to have a difficult conversation with somebody that you think might be resisting. Here's how you approach that. Or when you announce a change or you're going to have to talk to your team, here are most likely the common tough questions you're going to get. And here are ways to answer it." First of all, even when I think about the neuroscience concept, they are five concepts with the caveat that, look, we are learning so much all the time, everything changes. But I tried to give a simple overview. And then, "So what? What does this mean for you?" I'm going to look at the book to make sure I capture all five. The first one was what we call the threat of uncertainty. And that ultimately is what the change leaders, themselves, are experiencing as much as people are.

Our brains hate uncertainty more than anything. And so the goal is, if we know this about ourselves, "How do leaders create ... " When I say certainty, I don't mean that that means that they know everything. But that means two things. One is when people are already in uncertainty, they think the next thing that is going to happen, in other words, what's in the unknown, is going to be bad. So, part of the leader's job is to know that we're already geared towards the negative. So, how do you help people course-correct back to neutral? And there's techniques to do that also for ourselves. That's super important. And then the other thing is when you think about telling your team what's known, it's just as important to say what's unknown because most people are thinking about ... Ultimately, the first question that runs through anybody's mind is, "What does this change mean for me?" And so that's why we talked about it's totally fine to say, "I don't know." And we'll get more into that later.

The second concept is negativity bias. That means we automatically have a brain that's tilted towards looking for that. We started with uncertainty. Now, we're automatically tilted to what's going to go wrong. That's just a way that we are always hardwired to protect ourselves. So, why it's so important to not only think about what could go wrong in a change and allow your people to talk about it. It's also important to basically think about, "Well, what could go right?" The third thing is switch-cost. And many times, I hear from service leaders ... Leaders in general, but service leaders, particularly if they have employees who've been around for a long time, is, "Oh, my gosh. The people, they don't want to change. It's so hard to get people to change." And so this gives leaders an understanding about why. I like to say there's a little geek in your brain that's calculating the cost-benefit analysis for you to make the effort to change. And so a lot of times, we like to stay in the ideation phase, "Ooh, that sounds great. That would be so cool." But actually, when it comes to doing the work ... And I give an example in the book of when I tried to learn a foreign language. Sounded like a great idea when I was living in Italy. My brain was like, "It's not happening."

Didn't matter how kind the Italian people were, wasn't going to happen. The switch-cost was too great. So, then I talk to leaders, "Well, how do you deal with this?" And one way you deal with it is helping people understand what they can get rewarded for. So, in this case, what we're looking for is not perfection in somebody doing a task or doing it the exact same way we've done. We're going to reward people trying something new. And that's a way you can counteract. Do you want to jump in?

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, I was just going to say one thing on that because sometimes, one of the challenges I hear is in that ideation phase ... Let's say digital transformation. We're adopting this new tool, and we're going to do this, so it will improve X, Y, or Z about your Mr. or Mrs. Frontline-Worker, role. "Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. Sounds good. Sure, I'll consider that." But then adoption doesn't actually happen. So, there's this initial acceptance when the change management plan is initially rolled out. But then after the implementation of that tool, the leaders really struggle with its use. It's not being used at all. They're just defaulting to the former tool, or it's not being used in its intended manner. So, this switch-cost idea makes a lot of sense because that initial acceptance is sort of this, "Yeah, okay." And then there's this recognition of, "But I'm so comfortable doing this thing. I don't want to actually learn how to do this new thing." I was just kind of putting it in the-

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: Perfect.

Sarah Nicastro: ... context and thinking about how much sense it makes. Okay, sorry.

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: Yes, you're absolutely right. And some of that is needing time, but there are a couple of other things that leaders can do in that case. First of all, is making sure, "Is everybody clear, first of all, of what we're trying to do? Does everybody get it? Fine." The leader can think about and make room for, "Okay, as you adopt this new tool, what concerns you, or what excites you? Also, what might be gained, or what might be lost?" Giving people a chance to say, "I like doing this. I was an expert. I could do my job very easily. And now, depending on what some of those metrics are that people will be measured ... You have to make sure they're not being penalized for taking more time or having to learn a system. So, it's really looking at the whole reward mechanism.

And oftentimes, it's like, "Yeah." And it's the leader simply saying, "You're right, you're right." And just making some room for that, "It's hard to not be the expert anymore, and it is hard to take longer." So, a lot of times, the leaders has to just acknowledge, "Yeah, you're right." And there's not much more to do about that, again, except, "Hey, do you want to walk through this together? Should we try it and see what it's like?" And then giving the person more time and, as we said, trying to reward them and encourage them for struggling as opposed to being perfect.

Sarah Nicastro: Makes sense.

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: Humans, right? This is a thing. We're dealing with humans. Two other things, and they all kind of flow together. Number four is the analytic versus empathetic networks in our brain. This was a huge light bulb going off for me, and it gets to the heart of what you're talking about, the project versus the people aspects of the change. The analytic network is those groups of systems in our brains that are responsible for analyzing data, looking at timeframes, putting specific actions together, getting things done. It's planning. It's all of that stuff. Most organizations reward for analytic network activity a lot. The other part is the empathetic network in our brains. Two major functions here. One is it allows people to almost pull back out of the details and see the larger, broader picture, which is a lot where you can see patterns. It's where innovation comes from, the ability to pull out and think about doing things in new ways. The other thing is it enables us to be tuned into the verbal and non-verbal cues of people. The kicker is when one of those is active, it suppresses the other. And so hence, when we're very focused on a project in getting something done, we are not able to attend to the human side of change, which why the best leaders who do this really almost have to specifically imagine they're putting a different hat on, and they have different questions.

Even in groups when we were meeting, doing training around this, and we were having leaders, service leaders in particular, practice, we would assign, "Okay, your job in this conversation is simply to wear the people-hat. You put yourself in the role of people. What are you thinking and feeling?" And they felt permission to do that while everybody else was focused on getting it done. That's really critical. And then the fifth is optimism. And I hope this makes people feel good. For me, earlier in my career, I used to sort of roll my eyes at optimism or positivity because it just didn't seem serious. Now that I'm a complete nerd when it comes to brain science, it's, again, helped me so much appreciate that, again, we went back to ... Because our brains are tilted towards the negative, actually, some say we give three times more psychological weight to the negative than the positive. Again, you can understand our bodies are trying to keep us safe. But when it comes to constant news and things that make us feel very anxious, unless we specifically try to scan for the good, we are always going to fall behind.

In this case, practicing optimism would be getting your team together and imagining a positive future, imagining a positive outcome, really taking some time to think about what's happening, what could be really beneficial for clients even in the short run, if we're struggling. It also is taking time to celebrate that movement towards adoption. Even if it's like, "Oh my gosh, I did this. It was the complete failure" It's still, "Congratulations. What can we learn from that? I so appreciate you making the effort. It's wonderful. What can we learn from this?" And then it's also celebrating more of the traditional successes. I'll stop there.

Sarah Nicastro: That makes sense. I'm looking at our outline and thinking we don't have enough time because I have so many extra questions. But I was thinking when you were talking about the analytic versus the empathetic ... I'm sure part of it is putting on those different hats, but I have to assume also people are geared in one or the other. And so I think I was just thinking about ... Clearly, I would be on the empathetic side, but that's not for this conversation. But I think on the flip side, there's a lot of leaders who aren't, and that's tough. And knowing that the people part is tougher than the process part, then it kind of exacerbates the challenges. The other thing I was thinking about when you were talking about optimism is you're working toward whatever this that outcome is. But we tend to focus so much on the end goal that we don't look for those positives all along the way. I'm just thinking about ... Going back to ... The second point was around ... Remind me. The second point was around?

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: Negativity bias.

Sarah Nicastro: Yes. Or maybe it was when we were talking about the switch-cost. But you said that you might not change anything, but that person just wants to be acknowledged. And so this is where this gets really interesting to me. I have a degree in psychology. That's probably why. But I struggle so much in talking with people about this because I think so much of where we go wrong is in really simple details. Do you know what I mean? When you think about acknowledgement, that person that's frustrated with that feeling of failure because they went from a process they know they could do in their sleep to something brand new that feels so, so hard, the frustration there, leaders sense that or are made aware of that. And they react in a way that is either panic or force rather than just acceptance and acknowledgement. And maybe all that person needs is to feel heard and feel validated that, "Yeah, I know. It is hard because it's new, and that's okay, but we're still going to do this because of this why for you."

And the same thing with the optimism, yes, you have this end goal, but work backwards from there even in advance and think about, "What are the realistic milestones that you can look for to celebrate so that people don't get so disengaged, waiting to get to the finish line?" It makes good sense to me. All right. Let's go back to your point about ... Communication is obviously a really big part of this. There's this need to have, you said earlier, a clear message, "Why are we doing this?" And I think one of the things we've talked about before is also acknowledging as a leader that the why is different depending on what stakeholder you're talking to. The why for the CEO is different from the why to the frontline worker, et cetera. So, you need to have this clear message. But you mentioned also that it's okay to be clear about what you don't know. Let's talk a little bit about that and this idea of clarity, compassion, and then, "Communication doesn't mean you have to have all of the answers.”

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: We hope in organizations, but I still hear that it doesn't happen, that the organization is providing their leaders with some information, enough information that starts to answer some key question, "What's changing, why is it changing?" And maybe, "What happens if we don't change? What are the actions and results? What are we trying to get to? And then what are the benefits we're hoping to achieve?" Now, many organizations will have answers to some of that, but in a much more sort of big picture general sense. It's up then to the change leader to take that information and really be able to answer the questions for their people in a way that's relatable for them. If there's one piece of advice that all of this boils down to is take some time before you talk to your folks about a change and simply put yourself in their shoes, and say, "If I was in their shoes, what would I need? How is this announcement going to land? And what might I need to adopt? Even if I'm resistant at first, that's okay."

It's thinking about, first of all, just the overall consistent basics, "Do you have that?" And if you don't, go to your leaders and ask some of those questions. Then it is, "Okay, I'm going to communicate this to folks. But before I do, I'm going to take some time to anticipate tough questions or reactions they may have so I am not surprised." And then it is going to be okay. But it involves a mindset shift because ... I know I can go in a bazillion different directions because of the overlap, but I'm trying to stay focused. If you think about what your job is in the different stages, first, it's just to announce the change, make sure people get the technical details enough, and then they can ask questions, and then they can have their reactions. So, you have to get into a mindset that says, "My job as a change leader is not to have all the answers. My job as a change leader ... I know I'm successful, is I can actually unearth a ton of questions I can't answer yet because that tells me I'm giving my folks an opportunity to engage and to get involved. I'm also trusting their wisdom and their knowledge. They're on the front lines."

And the problem is a lot of leaders are exhausted. They already feel like they're going to hear people being like, "Oh, are you kidding me? Another change? What about this? And this one still isn't working." And that's fair. And then it's like, "Okay, let's map this out. Let's talk about that." And it's giving 20 minutes. Now, what I'd like to say to leaders is, "It's okay." For instance, as soon as you shift your mindset that resistance isn't a problem, resistance is normal, this is what people do, that's cool. But resistance isn't a permanent state. And then over time, it becomes a different conversation. But at first, my job is to understand, "Do people have enough information now?" And then it is to make sure I ask questions if I have an expectation. That is, "Do you understand what you need to do differently?" Which is the clarity priority. We can touch on those in a minute. The clarity priority bottom line is, "Is everybody clear on what they need to do differently on a day-to-day basis as a result of the change?" That's usually the part that's missing.

A change gets announced, there's not as much conversation or clarity around, "Okay, now, what is it like to actually implement this change? Do I need new training?" And almost making room for, "Look, this is how it looks now, but it's probably going to change as we start to roll it out." And setting that expectation upfront so people don't think, "Oh, now, you're changing again. That must mean it was a problem." No, this is normal. I'm going to dovetail into the communication priority. Clarity priorities, making sure people are ... Really, they understand what they have to do differently. Communication is two-way. It's not just telling. It's making room to ask. And that's why I hope the book is helpful because I do outline conversations and guides for a ton of tough questions, including, "Am I going to lose my job?" Which is a big one that freaks leaders out.

It is all about, "How do you become curious and not look at somebody's negative reaction as either a total roadblock to your trying to move ahead in your analytic network and get things done? And also, how do you welcome it as good data?" It's important for me to know this. And so as soon as I go into curiosity mindset, I'm not defensive. I don't have to convince anybody. And then it's compassion, is really where I like to start. As I said, you are able to understand that resistance is completely normal, that my job here is to really try to put myself in that person's shoes, which I've got to say service people are so good ... The most successful ones all the time. It's what causes a lot of their frustration.

As I said, they love their clients. They feel like they really want to support their clients. So, how do you end up really allowing ... Put yourself in your person's shoes, but then allow them to put themselves in their client's shoes, and talk to you about what this is going to be like from a client or user experience perspective. We're talking about a lot here, but I want to make sure we focus down on that most leaders right now, they are already change leaders. They're doing it. So, the goal is, "Let's figure out what you do that works?" And if you're coming up against some particular problems or challenges, I'm hoping this book can make it easy for you to try a couple of things differently to get that change adoption,

Sarah Nicastro: That makes sense. I think this idea of, "It's okay to say I don't know." Also goes back to authenticity, which builds trust. To me ... I'm probably more skeptical than some, but the worst thing someone could do if I ask a question and they don't know is to make something up because I will just smell the BS and just walk away, rolling my eyes. And that disconnect is what you want to be avoiding. You're better off just being honest and transparent, "I don't know, but let me find out. I don't know. I'll come back to you. I don't know. Let's whatever." So, it almost is part of the compassion piece for me of-

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: Totally.

Sarah Nicastro: ... "Don't let your ego make you feel the need to make things up. It's okay to not have all the answers. It's better to not have all the answers and figure them out together than to pretend you do if you don't." Now, you mentioned some of the tough questions. I want people to get the book and read the book. So, we don't need to go through all of the examples, but-

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: I'm happy to.

Sarah Nicastro: What is the advice on ... Obviously, you should anticipate that you will get some, but how do you navigate those tough questions or those moments of extreme resistance without taking it personally or losing focus, confidence, energy on where you're trying to get to?

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: I think the whole point is these conversations are hard. So, what I like to say is it's not that you're ever maybe going to feel great about having these conversations or that you're going to like them. It is, again, shifting a bit to be able to tolerate the discomfort. And most people that I have found, they build the skill over time. And then they start to have a couple of things, which is what's in the book. So, let's talk about that. The first thing is it's normal. As soon as you shift your mindset that somebody's reaction or tough question is not a barometer of my change leadership ability ... And it might not even be a barometer that they're resisting change or not. Resistance is simply concerns that haven't yet been addressed. So, if you can shift to that, that often helps again ... As I like to say, as soon as we trigger curiosity in ourselves, that oftentimes alone reduces our own anxiety. In the brain, there's a different emotion that's now in line in your amygdala, and it's not fear or anxiety. That's one.

Two is if I've taken some time in advance, given what I know, and prepared for some tough questions like, "Why do we need to do this when everything's going so well?" Or, "I'm already overwhelmed." Or, "Am I going to lose my job?" Or whatever. [inaudible 00:31:22] you take some time in advance, there are ways to handle that. What I like to say to leaders is across the board, the one tip that will really help is, "Stop thinking you have to give an answer right away." And again, we think about where I should be asking more and telling. If someone clearly is coming forward with a question that's very clear that they just have the wrong information, then yes, tell is like, "Hey, let me just make sure I'm clear." Oftentimes, it's simply playing back, which is what service people are trained to do with clients, "Let me play back. When I just want to deescalate conflict, let me play back what I hear you saying. Okay, great. Yes, boom."

If there's more of an emotion behind it, telling can start to get into a debate. That's what you're trying to avoid. First of all, as you know this, you can say something like, "Hey, that question makes sense. I think I understand why you're asking it, but I'd love to get some more information. Why is that coming up for you now? Or can you give me some more information?" That does two things. It enables the person to sometimes even get clearer on what it is, especially if there's emotion involved. And so it could be, "Hey, what are you concerned about? I think it's this, but tell me more." So, the leader is simply there, helping the person get to the bottom of stuff. But that does require in that moment, that the leader has already kind of come into it and said, "Okay, I'm going to take off my analytic network hat. I'm simply going to put on my empathetic network."

Now, you had said you are probably more geared towards having a preference. Me too. That said, when my brain is focused on a goal, I'm on a tight timeframe. I got another meeting coming up. I'm in my analytic network. And so I'm going to be much more likely to tell. So, part of it is being very clear in this conversation ... This may be a tough one. So, I'm going to have some notes. I'm going to have a couple of questions I can ask back, and then I'm going to make sure I take time. And if we're running out of time, I'm going to say, "Hey, let's continue this." But the whole point is can you ask a couple of questions first, let the person talk a minute and then say, "Huh, that's a great question. If I was in your shoes, I could understand why you're asking it. Here's what I know right now, and here's what, still, we don't know."

The other thing that's really tricky here, and this goes back to the neuroscience concept of uncertainty, oftentimes, it's hard for people when, again, change wasn't their idea. It's being foisted on them to feel okay about moving forward if they don't have all the answers, but leaders and frontline people. Oftentimes, it's important for the leader to say ... If they are not able to answer a question, be very clear about, again, "Great question. I can understand why you're asking it. We don't have an answer now. Is not having an answer preventing you from doing your job right now? And if it is, listen, that's good to know." But oftentimes, people just don't like not knowing, and they'll feel bad about it. They'll feel uncomfortable. And that's important for leaders to say, "Look, I totally get it. Your question makes perfect sense. Here's my commitment to get you an answer. But I think in the meantime, you'll still be able to do these things even if it's uncomfortable. Am I right about that?"

So, it's just always trusting your people that they're trying to do the best they can with the information and pausing for a minute, and just simply joining them. Doesn't mean agreeing. It just means, "I'm going to be present enough for you for these next 10 minutes just to make sure I'm getting what it is that is important to you.”

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, I think that distinction that acknowledging emotions does not mean agreeing with them is a good one because people want that acknowledgement. They want to feel heard. That doesn't mean you are agreeing, conceding. It's just a matter of allowing them to feel that way and feel heard, and then to your point, finding the solution. Okay. One of the things I want to talk about is change fatigue. We have had a whole lot of it over the last few years. I think service, we had a big push of digital transformation and technology change. We've had changes in, "What are customer expectations, and how do we shift service delivery or business models to meet those needs?" And then obviously, the last few years, that's all been compounded by changes as a result of the pandemic, et cetera. What are the thoughts on change fatigue and how it factors in both for leaders and for employees?

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: I think you said it beautifully. The question is, "What is it that will help both employees and leaders when it seems like there's no relief really coming?" And so part of that is, first of all, understanding that this idea ... Let me say this another way. As soon as you understand that our brains are automatically tilted to the negative, that's really important information. Once you understand that, you're able to stop and pause, and stop thinking that just because your brain is saying, "Oh my God, there's something wrong. There's something wrong." Doesn't make it true. And this is the most important thing. 100% of my clients are overwhelmed and exhausted. And so the first thing we have to do is help them understand, "You are in habit." Most people's brains are in the habit of anxiety, and it's exhausting because we are not built to constantly be in fight or flight. We also know ... Little more neuroscience research, that there's been research done about ... They put people in MRI machines. They flashed images. They were trying to understand, "Is there a difference between something lodging in what we call the unconscious brain, which is more of the inner brain versus the outer brain? And yes." What they discovered was people's amygdala could be lighting up and flashing, and reacting to stuff in the environment even though their conscious brain wasn't recognizing it.

So, the first thing for leaders to understand is you have to take care of yourself. And that may mean not giving yourself access to all this bad news. It's allowing time for quiet, and it's allowing time for reflection and honoring your state. That's one. Two, it's then saying, "I'm in the habit of bad news. I'm in the habit of telling myself the worst case scenario is going to happen. I'm in the habit of focused on fixing problems. I'm in the habit of catching people doing things wrong. I'm in the habit of criticizing myself." Once you see how tilted you are to the negative, then it's figuring out, "Are there one or two things I can do that bring me joy?"

And all good change leadership, which is basically good leadership, starts with you. So, start with yourself and say, "How am I feeling about this change? Does this exhaust me? Okay, I need to take a moment and honor myself, listen to my concerns." I have tips in the book for, "Hey, if this is your concern, here's a way to reframe it." It's not ignoring it. It's not acting like it doesn't exist. It's just searching for a more empowering, optimistic way forward. Again, it's so hard for people because we think the negative is more real or more true, and it's not. It's simply our scalps working over-time of all the things that could go wrong to try to protect us. So, it's developing a new habit. Once you do that, that even alone, to start to scan for the good, to see things that are going well. Even if it's a little thing, that builds energy and resilience. The other thing is people being really clear, and you can do this with yourself, and then with your people.

And again, I used to roll my eyes at this, but not anymore after both experiencing the magic and power as a leader of using this, is strengths. What that means is, "I am clear myself, as well as my people. We know the activities that we love doing, that energize us. Doesn't mean we're going to do them all the time. It's just, "We all know." They might be a little different, so we can leverage each other when there are things that drain me, somebody else might want. Now, that's different than a skill. For instance, I'm good at PowerPoint. Thank goodness, I can do it right. It's a skill. I don't love it, but I can do it. Versus Excel makes me want to poke my eye out. That drains me. So, how do I find people who love doing that? Let them do it. Part of this is honoring on your team, "Are people more often than not doing activities that they love, or are they doing activities they love, but the organization is making it so difficult for them?"

And then how do you as a leader focus on a couple of things and practice shared leadership with your team, which is saying, "Yes, let's figure out what are the obstacles right now that we're facing? What are the things we can fix or at least speed up? And what are the things that we can't do anything about right now. It's just where the technology is at. And so what can we do to make sure we all are taking care of ourselves?" And then it's celebrating success, as you said. It's a little thing. It's a little thing. And in the book, I have a framework called Great Job 2.0, which really is most people ... Because again, we're so focused on solving the problems. Again, we're paid to do that. That's great.

But Great Job 2.0 is simply like, "Hey, let's take 10 minutes and have a conversation about what went really well, what enabled your success. Here's where I saw you shine. Thank you so much. Well done, you. And what success do you want to preserve that we can take forward? Hey, can we do this in a team conversation so we can celebrate together? Who else helped you?" It's these little things that are like 20 minutes. It's, again, changing some habits, and then also really asking your team what they need, trusting the wisdom of your team so you as a leader, aren't working so hard.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, I think that there's so much of this that I think is really impactful. But the whole time you were talking about the fatigue, it just made me think of how very, very important it is to really believe in the need for and the power of that optimism because I think there's a lot of people that ... Like you said earlier, there's a point in your career where you would've rolled your eyes. I think a lot of people feel that way. But when you think about not only what you're saying about how the brain is wired, but the realities of the negativity that we have all experienced and are experiencing, there is a need to bring more of that to the table. Whether it's big things, little things, personal things, team things, I think that there is a real responsibility for leaders to take that seriously and to think about how to harness that power to offset not only change fatigue, but a lot of the realities that they're facing today. It doesn't erase at all. But if that's something you can do without spending a ton of money, without exerting all of your time, that can offset some of that. Why would you not? Right?

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: Exactly. It's usually just learning about it, is what you've said, because a lot of it is leaders taking a minute and just asking themselves first, "What's stopping me from doing this? Is it a knowledge thing? Do I know how to do it? I'm not really sure I buy it." And that matters. If you don't buy it, okay. But you don't buy it probably not because it's not true. You don't buy it because you don't know enough about it yet. I learned this ... Again, I was lucky being at ADP, and then we bought the Marcus Buckingham company. Marcus has been amazing in the work he's done with Gallup and the research. Really, the couple of key questions that are the things that he's focused in on, data, after data, after data of the most engaged teams are, one, "I get a chance to use my strengths every day at work." And two, "My teammates have my back." Is a big one. Another one is, "I'm clear, basically, what's expected of me."

We talk about all of those, compassion, clarity, and communication. And again, the leader doesn't have to all of a sudden ... I think in our mind, we go to black and white thinking, "I have to become a cheerleader, and oh my God." No, you do not. You simply just have to find your own authentic way of saying, "Well done." But the other thing that really gets in the way of this is people, themselves, feel weird acknowledging their strengths and what we know ... And you've probably seen this as well, when they've done the research, joy is one of the least trusted emotions at work. And again, it's like, "Wow, we have all been conditioned that we have to be miserable." And this is what's changing now. The external world used to be a lot more comfortable to go out there and get some feel-good. It's not as much like that anymore.

And so what's happening is many people now, I believe, are truly being directed inward, and we need to find these senses of joy, whether we get it from a partner, an activity, nature, a pet, just those moments of joy. Our brains need to spend at least 20 seconds in that feeling of feel-good, so it actually chemically makes a difference as opposed to the rampant anxiety that is nothing more than a thought or an emotion. It's not real, most of it.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah. I think too, the other kind of excuse that I could foresee leaders having is, "I'm just too busy. I'm too busy. Even if I say I get it, I'm too busy to make time to celebrate small wins because I'm focused on this big thing." And I think what we're talking about today is really the argument that it's too important not to. When you think about the intersection of how leaders are leading, and like you said, really every leader is a change leader, and then the issues that organizations have with retention and recruiting, and company culture, and employee experience and satisfaction, this is what a lot of it stems from. We can't just continually drive, drive, drive. People have to feel some sense of reward and connection to what they're doing, which comes from leadership. Super interesting.

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: Could I actually follow up on-

Sarah Nicastro: I think this is ... Yeah, go ahead.

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: I want to follow up on that because listen, I honor and fully believe ... And trust is wisdom. A leader saying, "I'm too busy." And so all I would say is, "I totally get it. I'm sure you are." There's no need to argue with that. If you're getting the results that you want with your current approach, that's great. If you're not sure and you really feel too busy, again, talk to your team. Ask your team, "Hey, I'm considering this, and I know we're all tired. I would love to hear from you all." So, leader doesn't have to do any more work. Maybe there's somebody on your team who's like, "Actually, I have a story of when this really helped me, and I'd love this." But it's making it safe for the team. And so again, it's simply saying, "Try and experiment." You don't have to, again, change who you are. You can do your, "I'm not sure I believe this. I'm reading this book. Do we want to talk about it and try it? Are we all rolling our eyes? And if we don't want to do it, then don't do it." [inaudible 00:49:18]. But that's what I say about shared leadership and, "Don't work so hard as a leader.”

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, that makes sense. Okay. Any final thoughts? I guess one final question I have would be, if you were to want to surface one major misconception you feel leaders have about how to handle change or navigate change, what would it be?

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: I think it is that resistance is a problem. I think in that one thing, simply shift to say, "These are just people with good brains. These are just being good humans, and how do I look at it? Oh, probably some really good information there." And now, I can become curious as opposed to being like, "Oh my God, there's that difficult person again." And they may be a difficult person. I'm not saying they're not. But if you can be like, "Oh, I trust you. You tell me. What do you think?" And just ask a couple questions, that really could change a lot.

Sarah Nicastro: And expecting it instead of having an unrealistic expectation that you won't get it, knowing it's normal. It's not a reflection, like you said earlier, of a failing. It's not personal. That makes sense. Okay. All right. This is the book. Tell everyone where they can find it. That was my Vanna White moment.

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: Well done. It's on Amazon. You can get it through IndieBound, Barnes and Noble, an audio book's coming soon. But that's where it is. And also, if people want more information, they can go to my website. I do this work because I'm a nerd. As I said, I love it. So, executive coaching, if leaders want some training, it's there too.

Sarah Nicastro: That's awesome. I love people that love what they do. It makes me very happy. Okay. Excellent. Elizabeth, thank you so much. I'll make sure the links for the book and for your website are in the podcast show notes. I really appreciate you coming. I could easily talk to you for another few hours. So, maybe-

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: Me too.

Sarah Nicastro: ... we'll be lucky enough to have you back sometime.

Dr. Elizabeth Moran: I would love that, Sarah. Thank you for the opportunity to connect with your listeners and you.

Sarah Nicastro: Absolutely. All right. You can learn more by visiting us at futureoffieldservice.com. I want to remind everyone that we recently launched the Future of Field Service Insider, which you can now subscribe to. That will make sure that every other week, you receive the latest content we have published directly to your inbox, along with some exclusives. We also recently announced the 2023 Future of Field Service live tour schedule. We will be visiting six countries this year. So, have a look at the website to see where we will be and sign up for the event nearest you. Ah, the Future of Field Service podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more at ifs.com. And as always, thank you for listening.

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