Service Transformation: Lessons Learned and Opportunities Ahead

Episode 262

In this episode of the Unscripted podcast, host Sarah Nicastro is joined by Ralf Bootz, Services and Solution Delivery Lead for International Markets at Philips, to discuss what he has learned over his 24+ year career with the company about how organizations and leaders must constantly reinvent themselves to remain relevant.

Ralf is a Change and Transformation Manager, a certified Six Sigma Program Manager, and a Lean Master who has effectively led major performance and change initiatives, enhancing customer satisfaction, revenue, and profit margins. His experience includes managing large teams through strategic leadership, strong interpersonal communication, and relationship-building skills.

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Ralf: And you need to build that trust there because that's a different relationship you are engaging yourself with a customer. So it's not transactional, you know, we do the service or the break, fix, and see you next time into more relationship building and, you know, a different partnership. And there needs to be trust if you go that direction that you together can do something because it's never, you know, something that we can do on our own. Maybe we need stakeholder A or stakeholder B to work with us. We change something in there, and, yeah, it's a different type of service that we need to offer and also a different way of engaging with the customer.

Sarah: Hello, welcome to the UNSCRIPTED Podcast, where you'll find discussions on what matters most in service, leadership, and business transformation. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Let's jump in. Welcome to the UNSCRIPTED Podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Today, we're joined by a service leader who has been in the business for 24 years, and we're going to talk about some of the things that he's seen in that time, what that means in terms of what today's landscape looks like, and also what the future might hold. So welcome to the podcast, Ralf Bootz, who is Philips Services and Solution Delivery Lead for International Markets. Ralf welcome, and thanks for joining.

Ralf: Yeah, welcome. Thanks for having me, Sarah.

Sarah: Absolutely. It's great to have you here. So before we get into the conversation, just tell everyone a little bit more about yourself, your background, anything you want to share.

Ralf: Yeah, my name is Ralf Bootz I'm Dutch, living in the Netherlands, working for Philips. 24 years. Before that, I worked in supply chain and smaller companies. And I have a master's in supply chain. Now, the world is service delivery and solution delivery in the international region. So those are all the markets besides China and North America. And we are mainly in the healthcare sector. So servicing hospital and hospital equipment and do as service. So there's a selling part and there's a delivery part. So that's a little bit about myself.

Sarah: Yeah, excellent. So I always say when I have folks join that have been with a company for, you know, 15, 20, 25 years, it's interesting because today you don't always see that, right? And I think it's always indicative of usually a good company culture and a place where, you know, you've felt you can thrive. Otherwise, you may not have been there for 24 years. And also usually it's, if you look through people's progressions, you know, they've had an opportunity to continue to learn and develop and grow within that business, right? Otherwise, again, people might not stay put for that amount of time. So that being said, 24 years at Philips, is a major accomplishment. I have to imagine you've learned a lot and the service landscape has changed tremendously in that amount of time. So can you share some observations of just, you know, the evolution of service over your career at Philips and, you know, anything that you take note of that stands out to you over that timeframe?

Ralf: Yeah, I never thought about that in that way. But in that sense, it was never a boring place. It's always something new to innovate or procure. Hands-on and make things better. 24-year-old Philips was always in the healthcare industry. And if you see the healthcare industry changed over that period, and of course we changed with that. Now in the past, we were kind of pioneers with a few other companies and medical devices to put them out there. And these were high-tech, complex machines in a healthcare environment. So service was sort of a given that people needed to do service. And at the time, it was easier, if you will. And I remember the days when I started, we did three big things a year. So these are the top priorities, these three. And we nailed them and we improved. And we did that year after year. Now, 24 years forward, it seems like we have so many priorities and the healthcare industry. It's much more professional than it was at that time. Moved around, including new competition, more demanding customers, more pressure on the whole healthcare system. So that pressure comes also into our company, where we need to deliver and step up to the plate. So from break-fix 24 years ago to still break-fix, but then with more digitalization and more professional services, it's a fast track, putting things forward. Still, we have all the time better improvements, and we still have a way to go. But there are still opportunities to increase the business and increase even our profits to reinvest in better healthcare.

Sarah: Yeah. You know, you said that I've never thought of it that way looking back. And I think sometimes that's a factor of a type of person who spends less time retrospective and more time just what's next, what's next, right? Which is something I can identify with. So what you were saying about, you know, the three priorities each year and how that shifted to today's landscape, you know, it's an illustration of and maybe interesting to reflect in that way of just how complex things have gotten, right? So, it's, you know, the amount of information, the amount of demands, the amount of possibilities, you know, a lot of those things are great, but it's just the pace of information, the pace of change, you know, it's just very complex today. And so, obviously, organizations like Philips have to figure out how to contend with that and how to simplify as much of that complexity as you can for your customers, right? Because often that's what they're looking for you to do.

Ralf: Maybe one additional thing is that in the past, service was these guys from service, you know, somehow in a corner. And I'm saying guys, because at the time it was male-oriented, you know, these guys in the corner. You know, well, now service is kind of, you know, hot and it's a differentiator. So that gives also the pressure of, you know, more stakeholders to manage in a way and more pressure because service is a differentiator. And in the past, it was kind of a more hygiene factor. So that makes also a huge difference in the positioning where you are in the organization.

Sarah: Yeah, no, that's a really good point. Yeah. You know, slowly, but surely we're working on it. Yeah. So, you know, that's a good point as service has become a differentiator. You know, it does put more pressure on the frontline talent, on the business, on delivery, execution, all of those things, right? It's not this, as you said, it was sort of a given, but it was a given in a way where it was just there in the background. It happened when it needed to, but there wasn't a lot of emphasis put on it. And that has changed, which is really exciting, but also to your point, brings a lot of pressure with it. So when you think about where we are today and what today's landscape looks like, can you comment on sort of two things, they may be different sides of the same coin, or they might be some different points, but what do you see as the biggest challenges and the biggest opportunities?

Ralf: Things that stay the same, and that's still the biggest challenge, is our people and services and people business. So how do we keep the people, keep the people motivated, and keep the people customer-centric? I think that is still the biggest challenge that we need to manage. Now, besides managing customer demand, that is much more challenging. So I would say customers, people, and then internally too, you know, based on what I said earlier, is to align all these stakeholders and manage them too, and still get the right attention in the company to do things like remote investment, you know, like training capacity, etc. To make sure we keep, you know, running the business as such. So I would describe them in these three buckets as the biggest areas or the biggest things, we were working on.

Sarah: Now, what about the other side of that? So like, what do you see as the biggest opportunities?

Ralf: Yes, in our case, it's still driving productivity with remote and working with customers on more data-driven insights and services to enhance their operation. So basically get closer to the customer by just doing a service. You can buy our service, here you are, in more output-driven services. So we get closer to our customers to understand their pain points and see how we could develop services to help with that. And then internally, it's more this switch to the more proactive remote, where we learn to trust these signals and act upon that and get better at that.

Sarah: Yeah. I like that you bring up the people part. That's kind of what I've in many ways built a career talking about because it's almost always the answer to what's the hardest piece or what's the most challenging piece. You know, it's, there's a lot of headlines that get given to the technology, but that's never really the sticking point. You know, the sticking point with it is how it's put in place and how people feel about it. And, you know, that sort of piece, not necessarily those pieces themselves. And I think there's a lot to what you're saying with the people part that has come into play. You know, it's, you know, you mentioned, how do you keep your people customer-centric? How do you keep them engaged? But also as service has become more of a differentiator, the expectations we have of the people and what we need to look for in the people has also shifted a bit, right? So it's, you know, there's a lot of layers to that piece of the conversation. Also, you know, getting closer to the customer, understanding their business in a way that you can develop new service offerings that are appealing to them. Sounds very simple, right? To just say in a conversation, but I mean, you know, that actually doing that, building the skills to do that, building the relationships to do that, taking that insight and taking it back in the business and innovating with it. I mean, there's a whole lot that goes into that. So.

Ralf: Yeah, no, and especially, you know, that's what does the engineer or the field service engineer of the future look like? And technology plays a big part of that. And you can dream about the glasses and all these features that come in, or artificial intelligence and AI. But at the essence, it's still people's business. People do business with people. So how do we train our engineers today? And are all these people like that? I mean, some people like, give me a complex issue, fix it, and I'm moving out. Now, with the digitalization, the information that we have, so, yeah, we see also a generation split in sort of engineers, the new generation coming in and the older generation, and how to deal with that. Yeah, we have a lot of engineers still in our company. And that is basically part of our product that we sell as a service.

Sarah: Yeah, absolutely. Can you talk a little bit more about the transition to, you know, more data-driven outcomes, the digitalization of service? What are, you know, the things that you're doing today to look for how to create those new value streams, to look for ways to use service to contribute, you know, new revenue streams, et cetera?

Ralf: Yeah, and there's not a one-size-fits-all. If you think about our customer base, they have different needs. Think about a university hospital versus a private government hospital. There are different ways of working and different needs. The trick is more to connect to what are they looking for. What is their improvement? So where are their pain points or where are their opportunities? And connect our services to that. So if you have a university hospital, maybe they just want very good-quality pictures and not looking for throughput. And another hospital, they're having a waiting list and they're looking for throughput. So then the throughput KPI is something that we can work on. How can we help you to scan more patients with the same quality, with less dose, or something like that, as an example? So it's basically around cost, speed, and quality, where we try to develop services and link them to customer needs. That is the transition we are making. But not every hospital is open for our customers. I'm open to that. But there we see kind of a trend moving into output-driven KPIs and services. And put some skin in the game for ourselves to say, hey, we can help you with that. Let's take that risk or that opportunity together. But that's a new area in which we need to define the rules of the games. In terms of how we do things, how we make those agreements and measure the success. You need to build that trust there because that's a different relationship you are engaging yourself with, with a customer. So it's not transactional, you know, we do the service or the break, fix, and see you next time into more relationship building and, you know, a different partnership. And there needs to be trust if you go in that direction that you together can do something because it's never something that we can do on our own. Maybe we need stakeholder A or stakeholder B to work with us. We change something in there. And yeah, it's a different type of service that we need to offer and also a different way of engaging with the customer.

Sarah: Now, it's interesting you bring up trust. Incredibly important. I think also, though, what I wanted to talk about next, and it's a good segue into that, is the role of trust among your teams and as a leader, right? So this whole evolution of service and where the business is headed requires, not only engaged, but empowered, you know, team members and strong change leadership, change management, right? It's this, you know, we talked earlier about the complexity, that complexity means that we're almost always today in a state of change. You know, we're continually improving, we're continually evolving. And while that's good in many ways, and also just is what it is, you know, there's no escaping it. If you don't have that good cultural foundation, you don't have strong leadership, it can really fall apart internally, right? So can you talk a little bit about company culture, empowerment, leadership, and how that comes into play with keeping everyone on board with where things are going?

Ralf: Yeah, and culture is important, and we take that very seriously because we are in a healthcare environment. So we want to drive patient safety and quality and all of that. And we're proud that we can contribute to that healthcare industry. But then on the flip side, yeah, how do you – and we have many thousand engineers. So how do we make sure that we drive that culture down to them because these are the people that are most of the time with the customer? It's not the account manager. It's the service person who is all the time in front of the customer, representing the company. So how do we engage with them to convey that culture and that trust? And, yeah, we have different programs in going to that culture and these culture elements and these behaviors and what we want to do. So, yeah, we're pretty strong on that. And, of course, we've got a great history as a 130-year-old company. But you need to reinvent yourself all the time in that one and, yeah, drive that culture through. So it's also... Dealing with the world is different cultures. So you get your Philips culture that we have, you know, company culture, but then you need to mingle that with the local culture. Now, that's an interesting mix that we need to stitch together, and then the local people need to drive that, you know, towards engineers. But, yeah, are we listening to them? Are we taking their concerns seriously? Are we equipping them with the right things? And, you know, how do we also, in a way, drive that whole Philips skill for what do we want to be and how do we, you know, kind of work together to solve issues, teaming up, etc. So we got a whole booklet and training and all of that. But at the end comes also down in how the local managers in the different markets are, you know, kind of conveying that and work with their teams. And also show what we say that that is true. Because, yeah, if the first occasion comes and, you know, we throw all these things out of the window and just go to the old ways of working or whatever we can do to stress out people.

Sarah: Yeah, if your booklet is just a booklet that somebody reads and then their experience is completely different from that, you know, it means nothing, right? And it's, yeah, the execution of that and how the managers show up day after day. And that's how, you know, going back to the point of trust, that's how that trust gets built. It's important to have those philosophies as a company, but then the trust comes into how are they displayed day in and day out.

Ralf: And we have these metrics that we measure and the engagement survey, and a lot of them are also linked to that culture. Now, to measure that and to react to that. And, of course, the field people are the biggest population. So we take that seriously and see, okay, what are those people telling us and what do we need to do different? Although I still have great ideas and things that we didn't implement we still need to do. And it's also our duty to make sure that these people, the field people, the service people are being seen in the company. Because typically the sales guy gets the big buffet and the biggest guy. But the people in front of the customer, that helping the customer, those are also the heroes in there. And I say it wrong. It should not be hero. It should be consistent. Really bad. People that do a good job informing the customer time after time.

Sarah: Yeah, absolutely. I think that recognition is very, very important. So you mentioned something you said, when it comes to company culture, we continually have to be reinventing ourselves, right? Do you feel like that's also true as an individual leader?

Ralf: For sure. I mean, we need to see what's the situation, you know, what our customers asking for us, what is the company asking for us and what are our employees asking for us and fit into that picture. So what worked, you know, many years ago doesn't work. And, you know, think only about hierarchy. I mean, in the past, it was much more, you know, there was a hierarchy and now it's much more flat. People want to go much faster, you know, don't recognize that hierarchy anymore, are more inspired by vision and, you know, kind of want to change things instead of making a ladder, career ladder. So, yeah, you need to reinvent yourself and your leadership team also. So diversity is an important topic. How do we bring in, you know, not only male, female, different cultures, like I mentioned, you know, how do we bring that together? But also different opinions. So if you get a team of only people that think the same or are the same, then you kind of get the same outcome.

Sarah: Yeah.

Ralf: So create that diversity, you know, in your team setting. So to answer your question, 100%, you need to stay open and stay close and what's happening around you and adjust to that.

Sarah: Yeah, absolutely. So Ralf when you think about, you know, the future, I know no one can predict the future, but what do you think are the biggest shifts we'll see in the next one to three years?

Ralf: I think it's more continuation of what we see now or the world they do. You know, with whatever circumstances that happen. So, for now, I see that we are more outcome-driven, that we connect ourselves more to customer outcomes, and that we drive more digitalization in whatever we do. So that is, you know, portals, getting customers, you know, digitally connected. More remote in that way, more software, you know, upgrades, updates via that remote. So less field work, but more remote and more the outcomes as a service so that we switch on some business models and drive more services. So I see things going to services and software, if you will, as a pivot point going forward. I think that's the change we're seeing going forward, which we need to adjust to. Now, then the engagement with the customer. So that's a customer engagement that we more, yeah, help the customers, especially in the healthcare industry, to also transition to their needs. Because the customers have, you know, the healthcare industry is struggling with the aging population, their staff. You know, higher cost. So how do we connect ourselves to these issues and develop services around that, if that makes sense.

Sarah: Yeah, that makes sense. After 24 years with Philips, what makes you still excited to come to work? I won't say every day because we're all human and some days we just, you know, maybe won't be, but most days.

Ralf: Yeah, first of all, the industry. I think the healthcare industry is a nice industry to work in. And this evolution that is still every day, every year, it's not that, okay, we're bored. There's always something new that you can put your... Your hands are gone to make that happen. And in my place, it's also the diversity, you know, with the different cultures that we work with, the different regions, you know, the different opportunities. So that basically always made me, you know, come to work and never think, okay, I'm bored with what we were doing. There's always something to improve. Still, I thought that would, when I started Philips, I thought, okay, now maybe at a certain moment you plateau, but it doesn't seem like that. So that makes me every time stay. And of course, the opportunity you get to do all these things and to change that and to put your own, thinking in there and the freedom that you can execute that. So it's not a given that comes from the top and say, okay, you need to go here and here, but it's also we can develop that ourselves in a way. So that's also a nice opportunity for me to be very creative and think ahead about what we need to do and where we should focus. Yeah.

Sarah: Yeah. I think that it sounds really good. I mean, you have, you know, you mentioned being in the healthcare space and I think that, you know, we talk often about how younger talent, especially wants to feel that sense of purpose. And so in the industry, you're in, it's really easy to connect what you're doing every day to things that really, truly matter and make a really big difference. And, you know, then you're in a, it just sounds like you have such a good mindset about enjoying the process of learning, taking things in, you know, encountering different opinions, different situations, and then to your point, sort of creating from that, you know, and I think that sounds really good.

Ralf: One thing on the future, maybe going back now that we talk, how do we get talent, you know, kind of in this whole game with us? So I can be excited, but you know what?

Sarah: How do you get them excited? Right. Yeah.

Ralf: But how do we get the talent following us in that way and get them on that journey also? And I think developing talent, that talent stay, you know, and let them also think about and give them that freedom in which I was talking about. Because they got different needs. Maybe they get being different ways to have different expectations. And I think that's why we also need to be open and work with. So what's the next generation of leaders we need to get in service?

Sarah: Yeah. It seems like you have a really good mindset and approach to that though. Even earlier when you were explaining, you know, that in today's landscape, there's far less of a hierarchy. You know, I think there's this sense of ego that makes that really hard for certain leaders to accept because the mentality would be, no, I've been here for 24 years. I know this, I've had this experience. So you listen to me, right? I mean, I'm generalizing, but, as you stated, that is truly not the way we work today. And it's not just about what the next generation wants in their roles. It's also about the complexity of problems we're trying to solve and the fact that it isn't realistic anymore for someone or someone to be the knower of all, right? We really have to bring together those different, skills, experiences, and opinions in order to solve the challenges at hand today. So it seems like you have a really good mindset of being open to that and, you know, not feeling stuck in exercising authority or, you know, trying to fit people into certain levels or roles, but rather looking at... What can we all do together? And I think that is a key to being able to develop those next leaders because you're not forcing them into a structure that they're not going to be comfortable in. You're sort of open to how do we create together? How do we learn from each other? You know, how do we solve these problems together? And I think that that's, it's just a really positive way of looking at it.

Ralf: It's not easy.

Sarah: No, not at all.

Ralf: I can say it very nicely, but it's still a challenge to get that working and to listen to these people. Because you see that bridge between the older generation and the newer generation. How do you keep those two together?

Sarah: Yeah. And I think, you know, it's a good point that it's not easy. I remember an interview I did a while back with a woman in Copenhagen who leads a logistics company, Trina. And, you know, she said, it's very humbling. Its leadership today is very humbling because it's not the way it used to be. And you really have to reconcile that, like, you know, it just requires a different mindset and a different level of acceptance. So it's not easy, but I think as long as you're open to it, right, and you're not closed off to, you know, that's where so many people get stuck. I think today is they're really yearning for the way it always was rather than being open to, you know, okay, so what are today's criteria and how do I reconcile that? It doesn't have to be easy. You don't have to like all of it, right? But when you can just keep your mind open, instead of closing yourself off, I think it just, you know, really helps not only maintain relevance, but, you know. Give yourself the opportunity to build that. Future talent pool and to, you know, set things up well. So last question, Ralf you know, is just, I can imagine you have so many and it's probably going to be hard to narrow it down, but if you just sort of think about, you know, your career journey so far, what would you say is the biggest lesson or lessons that you've learned as a leader?

Ralf: Yeah, that's a difficult question. I would say teamwork is dream work if you will. So you cannot do it alone. So you need to work with a team but also have a vision and a shared direction for where you want to go. I think maybe I came with this illusion in the company, you know, from school that you say, okay, now I'm, you know, highly educated. I can I know the stuff, you know, I can do stuff and, you know, I can bring that. Yeah, but at the end, it's people working. You know, that's somehow that you need to work together. And I think that's the most rewarding if you achieve something with a team, set out what you want to do, and achieve that. And I think that gives also a great feeling of recognition and, you know, colorful in people's minds. If you talk to people, you know, over the years, what was a good thing or, you know, what we achieved there, what we did there. I think that's the biggest learning in making. And of course, you go into this habit of, you know, give me this and I will run with it and I will fix it. But, you know, to step back, to inspire, to take people along the journey. I think, yeah, for me, that's the biggest learning that pops into my mind right now. Maybe there are many others, but I would say that's the biggest learning.

Sarah: Yeah, I love it. Ralf thank you so much for coming and talking with me and sharing your insights and experiences. I really appreciate it.

Ralf: Thanks, Sarah.

Sarah: You can find more by visiting the home of the UNSCRIPTED podcast at futureoffieldservice.com. You can also find the podcast on your favorite podcast platform, Apple, Spotify, any others. Be sure to subscribe so that you don't miss any episodes. The UNSCRIPTED podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more at ifs.com. As always, thank you for listening.

Episode 261

In this episode of the Unscripted podcast, host Sarah Nicastro is joined by Joseph Michelli, Professor of Service Excellence at Campbellsville University and New York Times #1 Bestselling Author, to talk about how service organizations can achieve success in creating differentiation through customer experience.

Joseph is a globally renowned speaker, author, and consultant known for sharing expert business practices to create joyful and productive work environments with a focus on customer experiences. He is also a Certified Customer Experience Professional and CEO of The Michelli Experience.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Google Podcasts. Also, subscribe to our newsletter right here.

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Joseph: I think we hear so much about transformative leadership and this digital transformation. And so people really do think it's just going to blow everything up. Transformation has a sense of whatever it was turns into something phenomenally different. And that is one way to do it, obviously. And the speed of change in digital definitely predicts a need to not just be incremental about things. But I think the biggest thing is to figure out what's working and to improve on it today over what you did yesterday. It's how we leverage strengths and step into opportunities from that SWOT analysis. But I love people who are willing to get on the leading edge of technology and innovation, but not all of us should do that. I think the really great place is to be a fast follower of the things that work. So you don't have all those upfront costs and all of the learning curve problems that the early adopters have.

Sarah: Hello, welcome to the UNSCRIPTED Podcast, where you'll find discussions on what matters most in service, leadership, and business transformation. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Let's jump in. Welcome to the UNSCRIPTED Podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Today, we are going to be having a conversation about how to create customer experiences that will help fuel business growth. I'm excited to welcome to the podcast today, Joseph Michelli, who is the Professor of Service Excellence at Campbellsville University, as well as a New York Times bestselling author, certified customer experience professional, and CEO of the Michelli Experience, where he helps companies create outstanding customer experiences. Joseph, you told me before we started that you've written 12 books on this topic.

Joseph: Yeah, I think I'm going to finally get it right one of these days. But I keep approximating the world of customer experience excellence for sure.

Sarah: Well, what I think is just you're learning a lot. And as you go and you learn new things, there's more things to share with people. So I think that's incredible.

Joseph: Well, and I think that speaks to customer experience. Just for all that are joining us, this is a journey, not a destination. If you think that you arrived today, holla, aloha, we've got it now, you don't understand this.

Sarah: The game has changed tomorrow, right? Yeah, so there's always opportunities to learn and evolve. And yeah, I think that's great. So tell everyone a little bit more about yourself.

Joseph: Yeah, I've been doing this before we called a customer experience in the days when in a hospital setting, we were trying to come up with consistent service delivery. And we even had scripted service. And so it's been a journey for me and an evolution and fortunate to get a PhD in organizational development that gave me context. But really getting in the game is important with this and really making all the mistakes necessary to understand how to use people, process and technology to make craveable experiences that cause those customers to keep coming back and spending more and telling their business friends to do the same.

Sarah: Yeah, I was sharing with you before we started how this topic applies to field service is really interesting because I've been doing this for quite a long time. And when I started, the conversation was never around something like customer experience. It was always around how do we cut costs? How do we eliminate headcount? How do we maximize productivity to the nth degree? And while companies obviously still have to pay attention to those things, as organizations began to realize the power that service holds in impacting the customer experience and customer loyalty, and the differentiation of their brand, it's been really fun to have a lot more opportunities to talk about this topic through the lens of service and to really expand the conversation beyond some of those really specific operational things to this bigger world. So. I'm really excited to have you here to talk about it.

Joseph: I love the evolution. Just if I can put a pin in that for a second. I think it's a natural evolution for businesses to go from more of a commoditized view of the service phase of a customer journey to one where this is a value creation and really an important flywheel back into the sales cycle. I love that evolution and I've seen it now across industries, whether it's automotive or even contact centers, rethinking the contact center. It's exciting to see it in field service.

Sarah: Absolutely. So one of the things that I thought was really interesting is this piece of research from Arizona State University's W.P. Carey School of Business, which says that in the U.S., 80% of companies think their customer service is going well. Only 8% of customers agree. That is a massive, a massive disparity there. Where does that disconnect come from?

Joseph: All of us think our kids are above average and that we have great senses of humor, right? Unfortunately, other people get to weigh in on the opinion on that to validate the perception. I think that what happens here in organizations is we want to believe that our customers love us and that we are creating a lovable experience. While we're thinking about things like how to cut costs at this turn, how to use automation instead of people, we're doing all these things and wanting to believe that there's zero negative impact to these decisions. And really using the voice of the customer to guide our decision-making is the true north for most organizations today. And that not only are they giving you the voice, but they're also giving you their behavior. So tracking the behavior of purchase intent, repurchases, stickiness of your offerings. So I think people are sobering up to that and they're starting to look at where the perceptions that matter are. And I think it was Drucker who said that we're not in business to make a profit, we're in business to make a customer. And so it's through customers that profits come. So who cares what we think, really? Who cares what the 80% thinks? The opportunity lives in how do we take that 8% up and make sure all our decisions are guided.

Sarah: Absolutely. When reading that stat, I'm sure people would have different reactions, right? My initial reaction was, boy, what an opportunity, right? If you think about if some of that 80% started putting real focus on bringing that 8% up, how much impact that would have. How would you describe that opportunity to listeners in terms of going back to our title of this conversation? How can... Getting honest about those numbers and putting appropriate focus here really helped them grow their business.

Joseph: Well, yeah, getting honest is everything except you have to then execute. So we have a lot of businesses today that appreciate that they need to do better on the customer experience. It's a strategic priority for more than 50% of all businesses. So I think people get it. Now the execution of it is a whole different thing. So we've got a lot of money going into trying to improve customer experiences. And yet the American Customer Satisfaction Index a couple, about a year ago, was at its lowest point in 17 years. So we, knowing that it's important and executing are two different things. So the opportunity lives in figuring out how to execute an experience that's resonant for your customers. Using the technologies that you need at the moments that matter most. Having people available when people need to opt in to humans to deliver the experience. Training your people to not let your technology down by the attitude they bring to the service call. When all the technologies have notified people and they've got all the smart, intelligent technologies to have the right products on their vehicle as they're coming out to the job. And all the IoT has given them all the diagnostics that they need. All the wonderful technologies can be let down by an attitudinal problem on behalf of the person who's representing all that technology. So I think that's where the challenge is. How do we go from 8% to 50% because we have really put the people, process, and technology in the right place. And we have the right people to deliver against those processes and technologies.

Sarah: Yeah. It's interesting what I'm thinking about in my mind is you're saying that more than 50% of companies have this as a strategic priority. Which makes sense. But it's one of those things where. We talk about these different buzzword categories as it would be crazy for any board or CEO to say, yeah, we don't really care about customer experience. They know it has to be a priority. But I wonder if the amount of intent that turns into action is correlated to the recognition of what you said in the quote earlier, or the belief, I should say, that profits come from customers, right? Because there's this whole sort of philosophy around the chicken and the egg, or what should come first, right? If we... Focus on the numbers versus focusing on the customer experience and letting that drive the results. Does that make sense?

Joseph: Yeah, Michael Tushman at Harvard says we do a lot of and or thinking when it is a both. I think that's where we are with a lot of this. You've got to drive numbers. You've got to have tight margins. You've got to operate efficiently. There is no pass for sloppy work and really loving people. That does not get you where you need to be. On the other hand, tracking all those KPIs on the here and now sales and then not investing enough in the technologies in the service side or in the people development side so that humans have an experience that keeps you sticky is not particularly sound. I worked for a long time in the automotive industry. I wrote a book about Mercedes. And, you know, a lot of money goes into trying to get people to sell cars. But the car sales margin is fairly thin. And the way that manufacturers make a living is getting people to come back to their dealership for service. And having a positive service experience that then causes them to have a relationship with that dealership for the purposes of the next car purchase. And in the B2B, it's even more substantial in terms of fleet sales. So I think it is appreciating how do we make sure that that service team is a part of the sales team, that that field service group understands their role in revenue generation over the long term. And some of that is efficiency driven. But a lot of it is understanding how do we create more value in our service calls, the anticipatory value, the need not to call me again because we've taken care of things that would be routine service annoyances. That the service team thinks more about the equity you have in this product more than the person does because they're tracking on your behalf the maintenance and the regular performance of the product. So those are really big shifts, I think. And the brands that do that well are the ones that I think are going to hit the numbers and also capture hearts of the people that they serve.

Sarah: Yeah. And to your point, it comes back to getting honest, right? Which requires you to understand not what do we as a business think is important to our customers, but what are they telling us is important to them? And then figuring out how you create the value proposition around your ability to impact that. Okay.

Joseph: And what do you know? What do you know that they don't know that you can create value that they don't even realize they need for?

Sarah: Yeah, absolutely. Okay. I'm thinking about, you just said, that's a lot of change, right? And so there's different reasons, some conscious, some subconscious, that companies fear innovation when they think of doing whatever would be different than doing the status quo, especially when the status quo is working okay. Is it possible for companies to improve customer experience, make a positive impact here without disrupting things at a large scale or not?

Joseph: Yeah, I mean, I think we hear so much about transformative leadership and this digital transformation. And so people really do think it's just going to blow everything up. Transformation has a sense of whatever it was turns into something phenomenally different. And that is one way to do it, obviously. And the speed of change in digital definitely predicts a need to not just be incremental about things. But I think the biggest thing is to figure out what's working and to improve on it today over what you did yesterday. It's how we leverage strengths and step into opportunities from that SWOT analysis. But I love people who are willing to get on the leading edge of technology and innovation, but not all of us should do that. I think the really great place is to be a fast follower of the things that work. So you don't have all those upfront costs and all of the learning curve problems that the early adopters have. Now, if you're incredibly huge and you have a lot of money, and I'm sure there are a lot of people in the field space, the field service space who are in that, you can be there. But for the rest of us who aren't really willing to gamble at all, or gamble, given that we don't have as big of a pot, then we just have to really be aware of who are our customers and what's working. And I just released a book called Customer Magic, and that's one of their superpowers, to be really honest. There's a company I work with out of Australia, and they do these study tours. So they're based out of Australia. Sometimes they're coming to the United States a lot. They're going to the UK a lot, and they're looking at what's working in those markets. And then they're going back and saying, let's look at the use case here in Australia. That'll work for a country of shopkeepers in England, but it won't, work for us given the geography of our clientele. So they're constantly looking the horizon for what is everybody on the cutting edge doing, and then saying, oh, data centers, that could be a good idea. So some 10, 15 years ago, they started to get into building data centers, which has been incredible for them.

Sarah: So they can learn a lot and have that curious mindset, but then pick and choose what applies to them. Based on a variety of different criteria.

Joseph: Yeah. And it's not as disruptive for them under that scenario to go back to your original question.

Sarah: Yeah. And I think that's also, I talked about how in service we've seen this shift toward focusing on customer experience over the past decade plus. But along with that has come the need to look outside of your own competitive set. Like you shouldn't be looking for those best practices or that what can work only from the companies that are your direct competitors. You need to really be assessing trends across different types of industries and see what could apply or what could work. So I love that they're using that exercise to be learning and evaluating different ideas and different concepts.

Joseph: I have lots of clients, you know, in areas like field service who are studying a Ritz-Carlton. And my goodness, that's a completely different model, right? Ritz-Carlton is a hospitality brand. It's all about nurturance. It's all about anticipating needs and really strangely personal ways. But the idea of anticipating needs in a Ritz-Carlton is something you want to take into field service. It really is a part of we want to service you today, but we want to anticipate what you're going to need up ahead. Both for our cost savings elements of our service delivery, but also for you to see us as a trusted partner in your long-term journey with these products.

Sarah: Absolutely. Yeah. Okay. So when we think about looking at customer experience in helping drive business growth. What do companies need to get right to make that connection?

Joseph: Yeah, well, growth is an interesting question. For me, growth isn't necessarily opening up another brick and mortar somewhere. And a lot of companies gauge on that. For me, it really is a growth of your market share and relevance to the markets that you're attempting to attract. It's looking at once we've really got a foothold on that beachhead, how do we get our adjacencies? So most of all, that starts with understanding who your customer is, what they value, what your products can bring to market and have value to. It's always trying to understand what catches their eyeballs and their attention when you are marketing those things. So it's really a lot about customer analytics and customer design. So designing from the customer outward and your people process and technology and knowing what are your target markets for that growth plan.

Sarah: So when we go back to that divide between the 8% and the 80%, where are most people getting this wrong?

Joseph: Most people are getting it wrong because they want to be everything to everybody, first and foremost. So they don't really have a tight understanding of the psychographics and demographics of their core customer segments. That's part of where they get it wrong. I also think that they get it wrong because they talk about it, but the discipline of it requires only taking on a few things at a time. So what are those three or four moments of truth we have to absolutely execute on every single time, every customer, no excuses. And I don't think a lot of people have that. I don't think they know beyond the practical benefits of their product and service, what are the emotional benefits of the experience that we want to deliver. We want to be known as the nurturing brand if we're the Ritz-Carlton, right? That's a very different value proposition than if you call Zappos where they want to create this personal emotional connection called a peck, right? And they want you to leave feeling like you've had a fun personal moment. It's not understanding the emotional dynamics and creating an experience that both hits all the operational drivers at the key moments of truth, but also the emotional drivers as well.

Sarah: Yeah, that makes sense. And I like that you bring up that piece, especially for companies that we're talking about that are in the B2B space, because they might not naturally think about the emotional in addition to the operational or the product deliverables. And I think that is an important part of why customers, whether they're individuals or organizations, are loyal and feel a certain way about the relationship they have with a provider, et cetera.

Joseph: Let me just, I'll take that for you really quickly. In Mercedes, we define that as delight. We said we wanted customers to experience their service journey with delight. So when we would do that pulse survey, like we're accustomed to doing after a service interaction, and one of the questions was, to what degree do we delight you today? Maybe one question or two questions. How likely are you to recommend and to what degree do we delight you today? On a scale of zero to 10, we got a lot of zeros early on, right? But what we started to communicate to service professionals is that your job is to create delight. In addition to resolve the problem, anticipate future problems, you're to create delight. And what might you do today during the service call that would increase the likelihood this person would give you a score as a 9 or 10 on delight. It's important to help people understand what the final product looks like. At the human level besides the operational excellence on the execution of the service technique.

Sarah: Yeah. So I have a question related to that. Would you say getting this right, so delighting customers, is it more art or more science?

Joseph: Oh, it's both. There is definitely art to it. And it also takes a certain disposition and a willingness to engage because humans are challenging. But there are certain processes if we impose consistently on the raw material called human beings, increases the probability that they will leave an experience delighted. And those things involve listening. It involves proactive communication. It involves a lot of the emotional intelligence components like empathy. All those things are absolutely scientifically proven to increase the likelihood of this. And there are trainable skill sets. But then there's also some nuances to know when not to do certain things because Sarah likes it done differently. She has an invisible sign that's telling me something different than John who follows her in the next service call.

Sarah: Yeah. So, part of why I wanted to ask that question is because when I think about customer experience, I think about NPS. That's one of the first measurements that comes to mind. And I think you can share your opinion on whether that's a valuable tool. But I think to me, it seems like when it becomes not so is when two things happen. One, it's not paired with any sort of anecdotal insight. There's no listening customer sentiment, like you can rate us. But what does that rating mean? Tell me more. What would you like to see? What would delight you, etc. And then the second issue is when people ask those questions and do absolutely nothing with the feedback, because obviously that's going to frustrate people. So I was thinking about art and science also from the perspective of more quantitative measurement tools and then also like more of the qualitative. Methods of engaging and listening and to your point, empathy, et cetera. So how do you see those things?

Joseph : Well, I'm a fan of NPS at a relational level. NPS is a transactional tool. The jury's still out a little bit for me in terms of, you know, I just had an interaction. I'm much more interested in the satisfaction, whether or not it resolved to the completion. I'm looking more for how was the experience in the moment, in the now. I'm looking for some of those as predictors of relational strength as measured by NPS or customer effort score, other relational metrics. But to get to your point, I think just having any quant number like seven, well, thank you so much for the seven. And now what do I am supposed to do with it? I know it's not as good as a 9 or 10. And I know you supposedly would love me and tell your friends if it was a nine or 10. But a seven, what do I do with that? And you may be, for you, a seven may be a nine or 10 for the average person like, that was a rock my world kind of thing. And for someone else, a seven is really like, oh my gosh. I wanted to give you a zero, but I'm too nice. Unless you have some qualitative ability to read that data, it's pretty hard to do much more than looking at trends. Are we better or are we worse than we used to be?

Sarah: Yeah.

Joseph: As an aggregate. So I do think the only valuable information is a combination of transactional pulse surveys that have quantum qual and longer term surveys that have some quantum qual. And then you have to just use your big data analytics as well as your intuition and nuances to move those things forward with actual solutions.

Sarah: That makes sense. What is the advice around creating a culture that delivers those delightful experiences? So let's say we have a company who has this as a strategic objective and means it. How does that permeate down through into creating a culture that collectively wants to put focus on this and move the needle forward?

Joseph: I think you have to look at yourself in the mirror, leader. The culture starts with you. I wrote a book about a fish market where the owner said, fish smells from the head. I still don't know what that means, but I think it implies the likelihood that if it's not working at the top, it's probably not going to work throughout the organization. So it starts with how are you treating the people you serve? Because if they're not being treated well, then the people they serve are probably not going to do too much better. I think it really is a fundamental understanding. We're creating human experiences, not customer experiences. Customer experience is just a label for one group of humans who actually pay the money, but everybody else in the supply chain is pretty important. So I think that's the beginning point. I think you have to be very clear about what you value. You can't be all things to everybody. You have to have a set of values, and then you have to live by those values. And you have to tell those values to people who are prospects, and you have to determine whether or not they have the basic ability to execute against those values in the way you really interview them. And once you have that, then you have to celebrate the stories of the people who do the things that are mission and value consistent. And you have to really invest in storytelling is one more pitch to the group that on the recent book, they do an incredible job of having a department that actually collects stories and shares those stories back. And links those stories to values and constantly narrates, this is who we are here. This is how we roll. I used to say in the Michelli household, I had a certain set of values that included sitting down to dinner together. And when my kids would say, Dad, this is the lamest thing other kids don't have to do this stupid stuff. I said, that's how we roll here. That's how we screw up Michellis for future generations. They have to sit and watch their parents eat. And until the other people are willing to take you on as a project, you're going to be contaminated with that set of values. And I think that's the way we should think about business. We really are trying to behave so consistently. That's how we roll here. And if it fits you and we can do great things together, you're part of the fold. And if not, find a company whose values align more with you and enjoy your journey on your career.

Sarah: Okay, so we're looking at that from the perspective of sort of the workforce. What about the, it was referenced as the way we serve statement. What about how, to your point, when you think about, let's say a company has a long way to go between closing that 8% gap, right? They're not going to be able to do everything at once. You already said that one of the keys is you have to focus on making some improvements and having success before you move on to the next thing, et cetera. So how do you sort of articulate your customer experience ethos to your customers? Like what they should expect? Or how do you communicate when there's feedback that you can't address at that particular time, et cetera?

Joseph: Well, there's two pieces to that. First off, I think you have to start by taking your values and flipping them around. So oftentimes we talk about we are going to, integrity is our value. Well, if that is our value, then what would the customer experience if we had it? They would trust us. So our job is to create trust that we're in the trust creating business. Integrity is our buzzword as a value. And so you think if you're always looking through the lens of what is the customer going to experience if we live our values, and then you define that. And that is what the way we serve statement is to me. It's like articulating our values in reverse from the customer's vantage point. That being said, then we have to communicate something to customers. I would not communicate our most aspirational deliverable to them until we're executing it with enough consistency, because otherwise it's just fluffy language and it doesn't execute. So I would say, here's our service standards and we're going to execute against those. We're going to make sure there's a little cushion so we are consistently there. We don't want to make the cushion so big that we were basically underselling what we're going to deliver. And people are going to go, well, big deal. You're going to get back to me in two weeks. Great service standard. So I think you have to find that sweet spot that is reasonable where you can execute every single time. And then you have to over deliver against that. In instances where people want something that you can't deliver, it really is a conversation to say, this is what we can and to define whether or not there's a roadmap for you to be able to get to that place. And if enough people want it, it better be on your roadmap, irrespective of whatever you think your technology advanced romance are going to be. You got to really define where you want this business to go to meet where the customer is going. So that's my nutshell answer to I kind of think a three pronged, an effort at a three pronged answer anyway.

Sarah: Yeah. And I think it is interesting to me how challenging it is for people to really truly embrace that outside in perspective. It's not always about, oh, yeah, customer experience is important, but it's not even people that believe it and have the intent default to that inside out perspective so often. And I think that really is just fundamental to this whole thing is being able to think through the eyes of the customer. Like you said, if this is what our values are, this is what we're doing, delivering, et cetera, what are they experiencing? It sounds super simple, but I'm just thinking about how incredibly challenging that can be.

Joseph: I think it's the secret sauce. You just want to put it in a nutshell for the podcast. It is to continually force yourself outside of the way you do things. I'll give you an example of how we do it. We created something called the customer walk. And literally, the employees had to walk from the parking lot as if they were a customer, make sure no signs were mowed down during the night that they might not have seen because they parked in a different parking lot, stand in line, listen to what customers were saying, look at the condiment area, fix that because that was in their purview. If there had been a sign knocked out, tell a supervisor so that gets escalated. The point is, when you're on that side of the interaction, you see the smudges on the glass before you see the pastry. When you're on the other side, the glass is a long way away from your view. And it's just the way to get an advantage and to create that into your process, as opposed to just add talk about stepping into the shoes of your customer.

Sarah: Yeah. So let's talk about that a little bit. Maybe you can talk some about how you put that into process by sharing a bit of the story from the new book. So the new book, the latest book is Customer Magic, and it's talking about a story of an Australian company that has taken sort of a revolutionary approach to customer experience. So tell us a little bit about what makes them interesting.

Joseph: Yeah, and a formative. Well, first off, when I first got a contact saying that they'd read my book about Ritz-Carlton and their telecom and they're in Australia and their world-class customer experience journey, I thought it was a prank phone call because who in the telecommunications world really cared about that? But they did, and they got their market share in the mid-market B2B, so mid-sized to large companies, B2B. They went up against the government-owned behemoth telephone company just as AT&T got dissolved in the U.S., so they were a few years behind in Australia doing the same. And they had no capital, but they focused on one thing. We are going to create value for markets that are overpriced and underserved. And so I think as long as you constantly are looking for that space and if part of the value proposition is a better understanding of what your people need and filling those gaps, that's how you take on the Goliath businesses and get more and more market share. And for them, it's sometimes just as simple as saying, let's make your bill readable. Let's make it so that this is not in technology ease, but it's really made easy for you to understand. And that mindset and that over-the-top and using NPS very effectively to our earlier conversation and leveraging it as a way of getting. Another level down to understanding how can we make it better, constantly evolving, just allow them, along with other things we've talked about, non-disruptively looking for trend data that fit their, what they knew about their customers, and then making offerings in those spaces. That's how they did it. And really, they are a story worth learning about. And unlike most of my books, whether it's Ritz-Carlton or Mercedes or Zappos or some name that everybody knows, I think the beauty of this particular example is that a lot of us are not going to have books written after us. And yet we're doing some pretty amazing things that we can learn from each other. So that's the hope that people will take when they look inside Customer Magic.

Sarah: Yeah, it's also interesting that it's, like you said, you thought it was a prank call because it's a telephone company in Australia. But it shows the way that this focus has become important in every industry, in every application. Any other... Thoughts or advice around how to do this right or what people commonly get wrong.

Joseph: I think the greatest one is to say, keep listening to Sarah. And I mean that in the ultimate sense of continuing to be growth-oriented. Just as we suggested, there is no destination to this. People are coming up with some pretty exciting ideas. I think it is a lonely journey to continue to make a better experience for people and testing your ideas, being part of community, looking for resources that have curated content to people who are actually doing this. I do this for a living every day. I have lots of scars to show for all the things that we try to make customers' lives better to drive more engagement, to drive more referrals, to drive increased repeat business. The KPIs are how we live and die. And it takes a lot of trial and error, experiential design, thinking, iterative design work. And so being party to communities like this, I think, is the biggest thing you can do to have an advantage over those who are trudging alone without looking up to see what's happening.

Sarah: Yeah. And to your point, when you can connect with people that are on similar journeys, it's less lonely, right? You know that we have live events that we do in different cities across the globe. And one of my favorite pieces of feedback is always, I feel so much less isolated. I feel reassured, too, that we're not the only company that doesn't have this all figured out, right? So there is a lot of benefit in that. And also learning as...

Joseph: I think of it as...

Sarah: Right, like the new book.

Joseph: Yeah, I think it's a lot of being in a maze. And so you need some people who might have already been through that path of the maze who can tell you, no, there's no cheese down this end. Or we really got some momentum and traction over here. So attending those live events, listening to podcasts, being a lifelong learner, all those things make a difference.

Sarah: Absolutely. Joseph, can you tell everyone where they can find you, find the book? Where can they learn more?

Joseph: Well, readcustomermagic.com is the website for the book. You can find me anywhere and everywhere if you have my name. I'm mercilessly Joseph Michelli at LinkedIn and Joseph A. Michelli at TikTok. If you have my name, you're going to be able to search for me and find me, I'm sure.

Sarah: Okay, excellent. Well, Joseph, thank you so much for coming and spending some time with us today. I really appreciate it.

Joseph: My pleasure, Sarah. Thank you for having me.

Sarah: You can find more by visiting the home of UNSCRIPTED at futureoffieldservice.com. The podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more at ifs.com. As always, thank you for listening.

Episode 260

In this episode of the Unscripted podcast, host Sarah Nicastro is joined by Ken Marsh, Manager of National Service at Marmon Foodservice Technologies, for a discussion around her favorite topic: data. Ken shares what KPIs are most important for service today, advice for what makes data most impactful, and thoughts about AI’s impact.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Google Podcasts. Also, subscribe to our newsletter right here.

Episode Highlights:

[04:30] - Dara is a powerful tool for service organizations, providing essential insights that guide focus and improvement strategies. By identifying key performance areas and pinpointing opportunities, data allows you to establish a baseline, measure success, and address shortcomings effectively. Making the most out of data goes down to selecting the right metrics and integrating them with other business processes and leadership skills. A good practice is to start with a clear problem statement, use data to inform decisions, and continually refine approaches based on feedback and results to help your business stay competitive and responsive to customer needs.
[10:12] - To effectively use data, start with a clear understanding of your problem or goal rather than getting lost in the sea of available information. Think of it as storytelling: just as a story evolves from its plot, data should serve to illustrate where you were, where you are, and where you aim to be. Much like the principle of continuous improvement seen in Lean Methodologies and Kobe Bryant's Mamba Mentality, this approach highlights getting slightly better each day.
[15:53] - Use data thoughtfully to identify and address the root causes of service issues rather than simply penalizing underperformance. By digging deeper into why certain KPIs aren't met, businesses can collaboratively solve problems, leading to more meaningful improvements and reasons to celebrate success. Resolution is crucial in in-service incidents, as it directly affects customer satisfaction, as well as the total cost of ownership and the frequency of service calls when evaluating equipment from a service perspective. The point is to adapt KPIs to fit the specific context of a business to better articulate value to customers and stress the importance of maintaining good relationships with partners.
[32:22] - AI's potential to enhance data use and introduce greater automation is exciting, promising more detailed insights and efficiency in processing information. However, it's essential to maintain a personal touch. This human element remains vital for customer interaction and storytelling, ensuring that AI tools complement rather than replace the complex human connections that are valued across generations. As AI evolves, it should enhance our capabilities and free up time for critical thinking and personal interactions, ensuring we leverage technology to its fullest while preserving the essential human aspects of business.

Episode 259

In this episode of the Unscripted podcast, host Sarah Nicastro fills listeners in on some exciting changes they can expect to notice with the podcast, some improvements as the former Future of Field Service Podcast hits a milestone, and what the live event landscape will look like for 2024.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Google Podcasts. Also, subscribe to our newsletter right here: https://www.futureoffieldservice.com/the-insider/

Watch the Podcast Video here:

Sarah: I think the biggest opportunity in the name change is to help us in reaching more people for whom the content is relevant. One of the things that happens if I reach out to folks on LinkedIn that I don't already know or don't know me, they sometimes can say, well, I'm not in field service, where that might be the case, but the content is still very relevant to what they do, or what they might be interested in, if they're a guest that I would like to have on, etc. So I would say no foundational changes to be expected from the content, just a bit of a name change to better represent the things that we have been talking about for quite some time.

Sarah: Welcome to the Future of Field Service Podcast. Actually, we're gonna talk about that in a minute. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. I am flying solo today to share a little sneak peek at a few bits of exciting news with you. So first and foremost, as I alluded to, we are changing the name of this podcast. We are doing a little bit of identity update and beginning soon, the name of the podcast will be Unscripted, discussions on what matters most in service, leadership, and business transformation.

So let's talk about why the change. I have spent over 15 years covering field service, and field service is very near and dear to my heart and always will be. And I want those of you who have been here along the journey to rest assured that you're not really going to notice a whole lot of change other than the name. But let me explain then why is a name change necessary. So, when I started in this space, field service was very much its own identity. And it still is, but it's far less siloed than it was all of those years ago and far more an integral piece of a company's business strategy, business operations, and business differentiation. And so, along the years that I've been doing this, a lot of the conversations have started to really branch out into things that aren't necessarily categorized as field service. So we're always looking at those things from the lens of the field service leaders that we interview. But we often find ourselves talking about things related to talent and company culture, leadership, and business differentiation, and revenue growth, and technology trends, and digital transformation. So when we think about what that means for the podcast, it's really an issue of the name just not necessarily being representative of the breadth of topics that we cover. And that is why we decided to update it. So, I don't expect that those of you who have been here and have enjoyed the content will notice a whole lot of change. It's still going to be mostly an interview-based podcast, still going to be focused on interviewing service leaders, and still talking about all of those things, field service and the elements that bleed into leadership topics and business transformation.

I think the biggest opportunity in the name change is to help us in reaching more people for whom the content is relevant. One of the things that happens if I reach out to folks on LinkedIn that I don't already know or don't know me, they sometimes can say, well, I'm not in field service, where that might be the case, but the content is still very relevant to what they do or what they might be interested in if they're a guest that I would like to have on, etc. So I would say no foundational changes to be expected from the content, just a bit of a name change to better represent the things that we have been talking about for quite some time. The website is still futureoffieldservice.com; 'Unscripted' will be housed there from a website perspective. And then obviously the podcast will continue to be available on Apple, on Spotify, all of your favorite podcast platforms. So hopefully you find that exciting. There will be a new look and all of that that you will see soon. If you do have any questions, feel free to reach out, we will be sharing more details, and we will make sure to share on social, share in The INSIDER, and on the website so that people understand that what has been the Future of Field Service podcast is now the Unscripted podcast.

So that is the first piece of news. The other piece of news goes along with that change, but it's just a little bit of an aesthetic update to the Future of Field Service brand itself. So you will see soon that we will have a new logo, a bit of a new look on the website, a bit of a new look on our social media pages, things like that. We're also going to take the opportunity to pair this bit of a brand refresh with more options for community engagement on LinkedIn, things of that nature. It's really hard for me to believe, but Future of Field Service as a brand launched more than five years ago. And so it's just maybe time for a little bit of an update. I absolutely loved working with the team that created the initial look for Future of Field Service and have also really enjoyed working with the team that has created the new look. So we believe really strongly in staying true to our core mission, of course, but we are always looking for ways to continually improve, and doing a little bit of an update to our look seemed to be a welcome change for five-plus years into doing this. There are a few people who work behind the scenes on Future of Field Service that are just incredible and have spearheaded a lot of these efforts. So I want to say, a huge thank you to them, as well as the partner that we worked with on the new look. So keep your eyes peeled for all of that. And hopefully, you will like the new appearance.

The third piece of news that I wanted to talk about today is to share that we have officially announced the information for the 2024 live events. So if you've been here a while, if you remember back in 2022, we did five events. In 2023, we did six events. And this year we are doing three. So there are a number of reasons for that change. But for those of you who maybe were hoping for an event in one of our former locations that we aren't visiting this year, rest assured that 2025 will likely bring a fuller schedule again. But for 2024, we will have an event in Stockholm on May 21st at the Volvo Studio, which looks to be a very cool venue. On June 13th, we will be in Cologne, Germany. And we are planning special participation in IFS's Unleashed conference, which is in Orlando, the 14th through 18th of October. And we will have more details on that soon. The information on the agenda items for Unleashed, the venue, and all of those things is available now at ifsunleashed.com. What we are working on is more details that we'll share soon on some of the Future Of Field Service-specific aspects. So we will make sure that there are content opportunities and networking opportunities, specifically for people that are there to engage from a Future Of Field Service perspective. I will say the Stockholm and Cologne events are similar to the events that we have hosted in the previous years, they're free events. There will be a day of content that consists of interview-based sessions with some round table discussions, networking opportunities, that sort of thing. The Unleashed event will be a bit different. It's a big event. It is a very lively, very exciting event. Tickets are required. So you will want to look at all of that information if you decide to come along at ifsunleashed.com. But like I said, we will make sure that we have some more intimate future of field service opportunities within those days as well. So really exciting stuff. I am hoping to see as many of you as possible this year. We're already quite a way into it, which is just crazy. But I hope that these changes are received well. The podcast name, the brand refresh, the event series, they are all things that we've been working on to, like I said, continually improve. And I hope that we can see as many of you as possible. And always look for ways to keep things exciting, to better serve our community, and to make sure that the work we're doing and the content we're putting out reaches as many people that it can help as possible.

So as always, I welcome your feedback. If you have thoughts on anything, questions on anything, feel free to reach out anytime. And you can find more always at futureoffieldservice.com. You can sign up for the Future of Field Service Insider so that you will get a monthly recap of our content delivered to your inbox. And as always, the Future of Field Service podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more at ifs.com. Thank you for listening.

Episode 258

In this episode of the Future of Field Service podcast, host Sarah Nicastro is joined by Sarah McKay, Vice President of Service Delivery at Concentrix, to discuss her career as a woman in service, her passion for sustainability, and the connection between diversity and sustainability.

Sarah is an experienced Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion (DEI) leader dedicated to fostering inclusive spaces where people of various backgrounds can flourish. With over 26 years in the field, she began her journey as a Team Lead at HCL BPO. By 2006, she advanced to Concentrix, where she effectively managed a multicultural team across various domains, including digital, social media, technical support, customer service, and sales.

Watch the Podcast Video here:

Sarah Mckay: Personally, I feel so strongly that sustainability needs to be at the core of how business runs, right? We need to operate ethically in a way that improves our environment and contributes to our local communities because it makes business sense as well as it being the right thing to do. And so for that to be true, everyone in the company needs to be involved. It can't be a specific team or 20 people that work over there in that function that do our ESG stuff. It has to be something that everybody in the organization has accountability for. And I suppose when we start, then everybody does something. We position our ESG goals alongside our performance goals. So when we do our annual appraisals, when we submit our goals, we have our business goals, we have our personal development goals, and we have our social goals where we submit one thing that we can do to make things better.

Sarah Nicastro: Welcome to the Future of Field Service podcast, where we deliver both information and inspiration on how to differentiate your business through service and lead through change. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro, and I'm here to guide you through conversations around the trends that matter most, from business transformation and customer-centric innovation to the service evolution and attributes of effective leadership. Join us on this journey as we welcome industry leaders, visionaries, and experts to share their personal stories of change, challenges, triumphs, and transformation. Let's dive in. Welcome to the Future of Field Service podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Today is the last interview in our focus in the month of March on talking about the International Women's Day theme of inspiring inclusion, sharing women's stories, journeys, and amplifying women's voices, as well as talking about the issues that are relevant to us creating more diversity in service and inspiring inclusion. So thrilled to be here for our last featured episode to talk about creating sustainable service. So I'm welcoming to the podcast today, Sarah McKay, who is the Vice President for Service Delivery at Concentrix. Sarah, welcome to the Future of Field Service podcast.

Sarah Mckay: Hi, thank you for having me.

Sarah Nicastro: It's Sarah Squared. I love it. And we both spell our name the same way, which is just makes it easier for me to not make any mistakes. So thank you for being here. Thrilled for our chat today.

Before we get into it all, just tell everyone a little bit about yourself, your role, Concentrix, whatever you would like to share.

Sarah Mckay: Okay. So my name is Sarah McKay. I have a husband, three children and two dogs. They are all boys. So I live in a very high energy environment. Personally, I love to travel. I love adventure travel, particularly hiking, mountain climbing, things like that. And in three weeks from now, I'll be heading to Patagonia to trek. So super excited about that. Workwise, Concentrix, we're a customer experience company. We combine human talent with technology to design, build and run customer journeys at scale. Like you said, I'm a VP of service delivery and I've worked here for almost 18 years and I've always been in an operational role. So for 15 years, I managed regional operations up to about 7000 people. My job is to make sure our people are happy and successful and our clients are happy and successful. And 18 years sounds like a long time, but really in that time, our business has changed and grown hugely. We've had seven acquisitions in that time. So I've had major opportunities to develop and change what I'm doing. For the last two years, I've moved into a more strategic role. I lead a center of excellence for performance management. So I define why we measure, what we measure, what our go-to processes are, and create an operating system to guide the team. But I also represent client success on our ESG leadership team. So working through our environmental or diversity targets and goals and working on those projects that contribute to our overall commitments.

Sarah Nicastro: Awesome. What a journey. Okay, so I have a couple of questions that aren't on our outline. How old are your boys?

Sarah Mckay: My boys are 15, 12, and 8. And I can tell you that just before we started recording this, my 12-year-old sent me a text message saying, Mom, guess what? I've got a girlfriend. So I am completely challenged. I'm not quite sure what to do with that information. But yeah.

Sarah Nicastro: Oh, yeah. I don't think you can ever be ready for that. And then my second question related to what you shared is, so you have Patagonia coming up, but you know, thus far that you've been, what has been your favorite adventure travel destination?

Sarah Mckay: Without a doubt, Kilimanjaro. So this time last year, I was at the top of Kilimanjaro in Tanzania. So it's pre-sanding mountain in the world. And I can't even tell you to stand at the top of Kilimanjaro and watch the sunrise over Kenya. It's the only point in the world where you can see the actual curvature of the earth because there's nothing on the horizon. It was just the most special experience. And my poor husband thought that that would scratch the itch on my adventure plans. And all it's done is introduced me to more people who've done more things and added more to my list. So once I go to Patagonia, then when I come back, I want to go to Slovenia and climb Mount Triglav. And the Julian Alps. So I now have a long list of things to do and places to go.

Sarah Nicastro: Okay. All right. So we're going to have to have a separate chat about this because I want to bring on some things, but I love it. Okay. So as you mentioned, you have been with Concentrix 18 years. You were for quite a big chunk of that focused on the strategy and execution part of it and now focus quite a bit on change leadership and ESG, et cetera. And so today we're going to be talking both about the, you know, the, you know, the, you know, the, you know, the, you know, about sustainability in service and also how that intersects with the themes of International Women's Day and this idea of diversity and talk a bit about your journey as well. So to start, when you think about the ways in which your company and other companies can be thinking about how to make service more environmentally friendly. So thinking about the environmental piece first, what are the things that you're going to be thinking about? And then I'm going to What's the perspective you have on that? What's the lens in which you look at that? It's a huge topic. It's something that I think everyone knows is important. People are committed to, obviously to varying extents, but how do you frame your approach to that journey at Concentrix?

Sarah Mckay: So there's so much commentary and pieces in the news and drama about the environmental crisis, climate change, all of those things. I think it can be quite overwhelming and it feels too big and people don't know where to start. So therefore they don't start and we do nothing, right? The approach that we take is we are a company of 450,000 people now, nearly half a million people in our company. So we have huge opportunity and huge responsibility to do something. So our starting point is every one of those people did one thing. Small or big, we would have a huge combined impact. That's where we start from. Personally, I feel so strongly that sustainability needs to be at the core of how business runs, right? We need to operate ethically in a way that improves our environment, contributes to our local communities, because it makes business sense, as well as it being the right thing to do. And so for that to be true, everyone in the company needs to be involved. It can't be a specific team or 20 people that work over there in that function that do our ESG stuff. It has to be something that everybody in the organization has accountability for. And I suppose when we start, then everybody does something. We position our ESG goals alongside our performance goals. So when we do our annual appraisals, when we submit our goals, we have our business goals, we have our personal development goals, and we have our social goals where we submit one thing that we can do to make things better. And that kind of helps. Drives that one concentric culture within the whole organization. So we do have teams of specialists who work on very specific and scientific things like our carbon contribution targets. That's scientific, that needs help. But we have 450,000 pledges from our game changers that could range from litter picking. It could be that they're going to support a local food shelter. It could be that they're going to take up composting. Everybody makes their own personal contribution in line with what they can do. And then that gives us overall a massive impact. And the truth is, it actually helps us build our employee engagement and our sense of belonging with the company. Because we can join people together. So if you live in Portugal and you want to do a beach clean, you can bring your team together and go and do that as a team building exercise. It hits multiple goals as well as doing the right thing. And one of the best things that I've done in my entire career has been leading what we call project change within our business. And it's a partnership with an organization called One Young World, who are amazing. But we go out and we ask the business, give us your ideas, tell us one project you'd love to do if you had the chance, if you were given the time, if you were given the resources to be able to do it. And we pick the top 10 ideas that come into us. And we have supported those and mentored those, given them the resources they need to deliver in our business. And what those people have done is huge. And they're from every level in our business, right from entry level, through the management level, through to accountants, through to salespeople, everybody. And these are things like we've had a girl in Brazil who had set up a migrant employment and refugee program. We've employed 70 migrants in Brazil through her training package, but not just giving them employment, help them settle. We have a girl in Brazil who is really passionate about bees and how bees support the ecosystem. She's adopted 600,000 bees. And in the next couple of years, we'll push that to 5 million. It's really opening up the eyes of our team to say, we're serious about it. We give you the resources. We help you to deliver and really just lights a fire under people and encourages them to do something. And they then in turn encourage the people around them to do something. And the effect is just like a ripple throughout the business. But that has given me so much energy over the last year to then take it to the next level. And I've just been on the rounds of completing roadshows to launch Project Change 2024. So we'll have another 10 people can do another 10 amazing things. And that'll be our growing network within the business from an activist point of view.

Sarah Nicastro: I love that. That's an amazing initiative. And, I think the point about how it helps with employee engagement and helps build that sense of purpose and connection to the company is a really good point. Thinking, I guess, taking a step back, right? And just thinking about advice for others, right? I think the point you made is a good one, which is because it's such a tremendous responsibility and a broad challenge, people can get stuck on how do we get started? So I think, are there ways, you talked when we spoke before about the idea of not needing to completely change things, but looking for opportunities to embed change into standard practices. Do you have any examples of that that you could share so that people can get a sense of how to take some of those steps without feeling like they have to change the whole world at once?

Sarah Mckay: Yeah, so I think the basic starting point for me is I don't know all the things. I don't have all the answers. I don't know all the solutions to all the problems, right? I am not going to be able to solve climate crisis and food scarcity and all of those different challenges that we have in the world. So I think it was really important to me to talk to the team. First of all, what are you passionate about? And we will see that depending on the country that people are in, they will have different focuses based on what's going on around them. So some countries are really experiencing significant issues through climate crisis. So they will be most focused on energy reduction and how we reduce our energy. But we go out and ask them. And in the UK, for example, the projects that came to us from the UK that people most want to work on are things around poverty. How do we support people who are struggling right now? How do we help with food banks? How do we contribute? And it doesn't have to be fundraising. We think of things in a give money, give time, give things triad. If you don't have the money to fundraise, well, then go and donate time. And that's how we structure it. But my starting point was to sit down and ask people, what would you like to do? In the framework of our ESG goals, what kind of most gets you excited and what would make you feel most like you had been able to do something? And then you can relate it personally back to that individual. For me, mentorship is something that I get hugely involved in and promoting women in business. And so I give my time to mentor schoolgirls in leadership because. That I can see the difference I'm making in that. My input to how do we reduce our carbon footprint in the business is now going to be great because I don't know. I don't know the answers. I don't have those skill sets. I think about what skills have I got that I can give to somebody else. And then somebody else will have the skills to calculate our carbon footprint and be able to reduce our utility consumption. And that's where that person's skills can most be involved. And we also sought out organizations who can help us. So One Young World are a great organization to be involved in. And they give you another level of mentorship and support for your team to help them understand how to develop their ideas and take them forward. Yeah, I think the basic starting block is where are you in the world? What are the primary challenges that you're facing in your region, in your town? And how can your staff help to make it better?

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, and I love that point about step one is ask the question and do some listening, right? Because I think that's probably why it's so closely tied to employee engagement, because you aren't saying, here's what's important to Concentrix. Can you be involved? You're asking what's important to them and structuring the initiative that way, which makes sense. Okay, so the next area I want to talk about is around well-being. So can you talk a little bit about why well-being is such an important topic across what sort of layers? What's your take on this as a focus?

Sarah Mckay: So well-being is something we've really started to talk about in a lot of depth in the last maybe three years. And when I think about it, well-being has... Two meanings for me. We have our physical well-being and we have our emotional and mental well-being. And they're related, but two different focus areas. And when I think about physical well-being, right, it's looking after yourself and looking after your team, but recognizing things like burnout, having the tools and the environment and plates that gives people the opportunity to have conversations in psychological safety, safety, to talk about working styles, to be respectful of people working hours, especially in a global organization. If it's two o'clock in the afternoon, my time and I need information, I need to be respectful that it might be three in the morning for somebody else. So just not going to get it. That's not reasonable. Making sure and being observant that people are taking breaks, that they're taking the right time off, that they're not just extending their shifts. Globally and ending up working over 16 hours. And I think as leaders, we need to be really conscious that we model that behavior. So if I'm answering emails at one o'clock in the morning, that sets the tone for, well, maybe I should be doing that too. And that example flows down through the organization. So I know that I need to show that I value time away from work, that I value outside interests and that I respect people's personal time. And I, my team will tell you, I have a common phrase that I start with where I say to people, if you can't do the job that I'm asking you to do in 40 hours, then either you're not doing it right or you're not capable of doing it. So I don't give brownie points for somebody, you know, staying on and working to 10 o'clock at night. That's a red flag to me, not a green flag. And then as finding the physical wellbeing, there's the emotional wellbeing. And a lot of people talk about emotional wellbeing and supporting people in times of crisis and times of need. And I think that's a really important thing to do. And I think that's neat, but it has to be more than just having processes or EAP schemes around mental health. It's back to that concept of having a safe space where people feel okay to say, I'm not okay today. I'm struggling today. Or that they can say, I don't like that idea. I don't like where we're going. I don't like what we're doing as a business. I don't think this is right. And I think that starts from, you talked about it earlier on that sense of purpose in the business. So it's such an old story, but I love that story of the janitor in NASA. And when he was asked what he did in NASA, he said he put people on the moon, right? I love that because everybody in our business has impact. Everybody, regardless of what job they do. And just because I have the title vice president does not mean that I have greater impact than anybody else. I've been here for longer. I love sitting down with the team and figuring out what is our sense of purpose? What is it that we're trying to do? What is our why? When you think about the side and side, and all of his teaching and getting that collective vision. And I think all of that flows then into emotional wellbeing because you've got a yardstick and this is what we want to do. This is who we want to be. And if we deviate from that, then people have a clear idea that they can challenge. And in that space, I think that helps support emotional wellbeing from the foundation. Yeah.

Sarah Nicastro: Do you feel like wellbeing is a topic that gets as much focus as it deserves?

Sarah Mckay: Yeah, we talked about this in the prep. I think when times are good, it's really easy to talk about well-being and really easy to talk about employee satisfaction. And that when the pressure increases and where performance isn't maybe where you want it to be, sometimes that collaborative and supportive approach starts to show cracks, right? You start to see more of the traditional command and control management styles that are driving cost optimization and things like that. And that's where people's workloads start to increase and people start to feel the pressure. And it's tough, right? It's really tough. But I think within Concentrix, the thing that helps us fight this tendency, and we're not perfect and we don't do it right every time for sure. We invest really heavily in company culture. We have nine culture statements. And actually, I've just been in London for two days with over a thousand people where we talked about our culture and has it changed and does it still fit? How do we live that? But why that's really important is because the whole leadership team say, this is what we want. This is what we expect. This is how we should interact with each other. And this is the sort of environment that we want to create. And that creates the language to challenge it if it's not happening. So if somebody is showing those cracks and if they're driving pressure and stress and anxiety in the business, it says, well, you're not really living up to that culture statement or I'm not really feeling that we're operating in line with our culture. And it depersonalizes the conversation and hopefully allows people to challenge. But sometimes that inclination to drive short-term success is overwhelming because you know, if you just push, push, push, you know you can get there. You can get to that number. But you also know you might break people along the way. And that's kind of a hard balance to really want to hit this number and I really want to look after my people. But the research points towards the fact that companies who stick to their culture have the sense of belonging, have a strong ESG policy, show commitment to well-being. A better growth race. It's better to do things in the right way. The numbers are there. Your business will be more sustainable. And Steven Bartlett, Simon Sinek, KPMG, Deloitte, all of those big organizations, all say that companies who drive purpose and sustainability perform above market average. So even if you're dealing with somebody who's a bit... I really about lovely concepts like wellbeing or like diversity. The hard facts are there and you can make comparisons between here's a company doing the right thing all the time. Here's a company that's just driving bottom line exclusively all the time. They're also different. So logically, for me, if people feel like a company cares about them and cares about the planet, they're more likely to care about the company and care about the results that we get. And so the results are mutually beneficial.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, I agree. I think what's interesting, I was thinking of two things as you were sharing. One is, I agree with you and we did talk in our prep about the fact that when we talk about employee engagement and well-being and company culture, there can be this focus on it that is tested when it comes down to those hard decisions of, do I push too hard to hit this short-term metric? Or do I believe in the approach? And as you said, very staff-based. I think it can also happen the other way. In the sense of when times are bad, particularly with an individual employee or in a situation like COVID, we saw more focus on mental health and well-being than ever before. So it's almost like when we reach a crisis point, then it can be like, okay, let's scramble and figure this out. What do you need? And I guess what I'm trying to impart is we need to not let it. Get to that point. It should be something that's part of the everyday. So people shouldn't need to reach a breaking point to speak up, right? They should be able to do so beforehand. And that's obviously the responsibility of individual leaders and the company culture. The other point I just wanted to make going back to what you said about like being conscious of your time online and when you're messaging people, things like that. I've heard so many stories about the impact. Thinking about... The focus on women this month and as a mom myself. Thinking about the impact that that has also specifically from male leaders. So male leaders being conscious of showing that example of not always being on, showing that example of doing a school pickup or attending this event and how that helps normalize it as not only a thing moms will want to do, but that any parent should have the ability to do at times or have that balance. I was just thinking about that as well. Okay, so the next area that I want to talk about is diversity and how it sort of, so this leads into the focus of the month, but how it also factors into sustainability. So can you talk about that connection?

Sarah Mckay: Yeah, so diversity, we're all in the service industry, right? It's our job to service the customers, our direct customers, our clients, customers. We're all, we probably all live and breathe by our CSAT, right? How happy people are with us and whether we're doing a good job, as well as the efficiency of that service, reducing costs to serve, all of those metrics. But we're servicing a diverse population, right? Our customers are not all white middle-aged men. They are all races, all genders, all ages, all religions. So if we don't have people in the service industry who are making decisions about how to serve those people, then we're just not going to have the right answer. So for me, diversity means that everybody comes with a different perspective, different learned experience, different backgrounds, different preferences. So if we have all of those people at the table deciding what the plan of service looks like, then we get a better answer to our customers, get better efficiency, get better cost to serve and all of those things. So for me, diversity means innovation and growth. And if we have new people, new experiences, we'll get new answers. If we have the same people making the same decisions, we'll get the same answers. And that's why diversity of thought is so important to me. And it's not anywhere in International Women's Day, but it's not just based on women, right? It's based on religion, it's based on age. And the more diversity, the more different people with different perspectives that you can have at the table, the better the quality of the conversation is. And sometimes it's awkward, right? Sometimes I don't like the answers because I don't understand. No, I'm not comfortable with that. It's better to have that conversation and understand because we're all representing a portion or a subset or a cross-section of the community. So essentially, we're all championing our groups when we come to the table with ideas.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah. And I think that ties back to the cultural tenets that you have of it is better if we're all challenged and if we can do so respectfully and we can do so to align to our objectives and those sorts of things, then it, like you said, it creates context for people to operate within so that even if a conversation is uncomfortable because it's challenging you, it's not uncomfortable because any single party is being made to feel uncomfortable or different. It's more so just because it's a learning experience. Yeah. So thinking about the theme of inspiring inclusion, right? You've been at Concentrix about 18 years. So that's a good chunk of time to see a whole lot of change and transformation and innovation. What have you witnessed in terms of the diversity? And what are your thoughts on what needs to happen, not only within your business, but in service overall to create more diverse, inclusive, and equitable organizations?

Sarah Mckay: Yeah, so in some respects, there's been a lot of progress. We are being challenged to report on our gender equality, to be public about our percentages of whether it's people with disability or women in leadership or whatever it is. We have to declare in some countries our gender pay gap. So those are all positive steps. And we actively target in Concentrix our percentage of females in leadership, not through quotas, but through internal development and promotion. I was at an International Women's Day event the other day, and the most depressing fact in the world that I heard was that it's going to take, at the rate we're progressing now, it's going to take another 136 years before we achieve gender parity. And I thought, God, I thought we'd move further than that. The fundamental issues of childcare responsibility, flexible working arrangements, sometimes leadership style that sees women stopping at a certain level and not being prepared to move any further are still real issues. My own personal journey with this has been really interesting. I've always had male bosses, but I've been lucky in that I've had really supportive male bosses who've challenged me and pushed me on. And one boss in particular, at the start of my career, he kept pushing me to join networks like Women in Business or those sorts of organizations. And I fought him and refused to join because my view back when I was like 20-odd was I do not need special events to attend. I can network perfectly and happily in a mixed environment. And I took it really like defensively that he was asking me to do this. But through time, when you read stats like 136 years, my perspective has completely changed on that because the truth is women are starting from a lower base, right? We have more things and different things to deal with to get to the same place that men are at now. And so I actually have completely gone. And I feel that it's the responsibility of women who have made it in leadership roles. To seek out and support the next cohort of female leaders coming on because we can prepare them for the journeys and the challenges that they're going to have and we should be so that they don't have to experience the same challenges maybe that we did. Now I seek out groups and organizations who support women in business. I work with a local not-for-profit called Sisters Inn who work with 17-year-old schoolgirls to show them what it's like to be a leader in business. So they start to think about that as a career rather than teacher, nurse, doctor, lawyer. And we have a network of women in Concentrix which champions women in our business to support. And I honestly believe mentorship is one of the most powerful tools that we have as women to support each other and leave the ladder down as people coming along. I don't think I have all the answers to creating a more diverse organization, but I have a very logical mind and where I always start is to start with the reporting. So where are you at right now? What does diversity look like across your organization right now? Are there career levels or departments or functions where there's a clear gap? And if there is, that's where you go and you start to ask the question on why are women not coming into this function? Why do you not employ women? And then that starts to build your action plan for what you need to do next. And it'll be different in every function that you go into. But understanding that dynamic, I think, is really key. And I also think that being clear as an organization that diversity matters and it's valued and there's a business sense to it. So if I go back to better decision making, better outcomes, better results in a diverse environment. Setting that as the expectation rather than you need to get 50% diversity. I think that leads to quotas and I think quotas are really damaging both for women and for the business. But to encourage people to spend time thinking about how to achieve representation. And there's all sorts of leadership programs and mentorship and creating networks that will then start to shift the results. But knowing where to start is key. And I think something you said earlier is really important. Yeah. And I think that's really important. The rule of allyship can't be underestimated. So I think sometimes men feel like they are being disadvantaged if we are focusing on women to move into leadership roles. But actually, we need men to help model the behaviors that allow women to succeed. Not at the expense of men, but alongside men. So you know, our network of women includes, you know, as many men as women because they need to understand what our experience is like. I understand how to support us within the business and then understand what part they have to play in that story. And I think if we do those things that you know kind of helps turn it from a spreadsheet exercise if you need to hit this number to actually being something that's sustainable and grows within the business. But it certainly takes time.

Sarah Nicastro: I love that you shared you know your feeling about those women's groups early on because I've been challenged in creating content on this platform about women in service or talking specifically about gender equity or gender purity or talking about some of the challenges women face. And when I get that feedback, it's often, if you want equality, stop talking about it as its own thing. And I have reflected on that because I don't take feedback lightly and I want to think through it. But I think at the end of the day, I would love for it to not be necessary, but it still feels necessary. And I think for me, that's because sharing stories is a powerful way for people to understand that while there is in many organizations, these varying degrees of focus or goals around diversity, when you get into the layers of the business, there are often still very toxic biases, situations, experiences that do not create environments that women can thrive in. And so, the only way that I think we create better awareness about those things is to share them, to speak up both within the organization and in platforms like this, where we can share those things with one another and with others. So to me, that's really important. And I also agree that, I think women should feel a call to help others. I also think men should feel a responsibility to play a huge role in hopefully shortening that 136-year metric to the extent they can. We heard last week from Daniel, who talked about why he feels passionate about this topic and the actions that he's taking in his organization to really, I'm going to go back to that, but what I'm really trying to say is, I think that when we talk about It goes back to that focus on inclusion. Like you can have these, to your point, when people set these diversity goals, these benchmarks, it's, you can argue like what you measure gets attention. And so fine. But at the same time, if you are creating a goal to bring more women into an organization where they don't feel valued, they don't feel supported, you don't want to hear what anyone, not just women, anyone, anyone actually has to say. That's the difference, right? That value of diversity that you spoke about earlier comes from that diversity of thought. And that's only possible not when we're just trying to hit a quota, but when we value including all sorts of different people because we know it will make the organization stronger. So I think there is still a lot of work to do. And so that's why I think conversations like this are important to have and the work that you're doing both within the business to appropriately challenge, to advocate, to support, and then the work you're doing outside of the business to help young women see different potentials for themselves. It's hard work, but it's admirable and it's the right thing to do. So I really appreciate you coming. And sharing your perspective. And I guess my last question would just be after 18 years as in service and as a leader, is there any final thoughts, anything you would want to say to young women starting out or to anyone on the topics that we've been talking about today?

Sarah McKay: Yeah, so I think in the last 17 years, if I went back, how would I do things differently? I think I don't have all the answers, right? I think in my early career, I felt that I probably should. And if I was asked a question, I should know the answer to it. And that's not the case, right? So I think if I had asked more questions and been brave enough to ask more questions, I probably would have got things done a lot easier. And yeah, I would have learned more things. I think that was the first key learn is that if I don't know something, most likely somebody else in the room won't know it either. So just be brave and ask the question. And I think related to diversity. I think the core element of diversity is not to have the numbers match, not to have this percentage of women, this percentage of men, this percentage of people who are from the LGBT community, the percentage of the race. It's to have representation. And it's not that you need to be like them to get to that role. It's that we all bring something and we bring something different and unique. And that is valuable. And I think sometimes when you start your career and 17 years ago, you think, well, I need to be like him. I need to be like that person because they're really successful. So I'll model that behavior. And actually, you're in the role you're in because of what you bring. And that's different to everybody else. So those are the two learns that I have. And I love to lead through collaboration. I'm not a, I do you, I say you do, you type of leader. So I love getting everybody's input into a problem. I love it when somebody has an idea that I haven't even thought of. And going through that process of getting to the solution, together spending my time asking people with opinions and thoughts rather than just thinking about my own and then telling everybody else how clever I am. That's my style of leadership. And it doesn't have to be confrontational, but I am genuinely interested in people. I love hearing people's stories and I'm honest with my thoughts and those that honesty and openness. I think it's something that Concentrix has helped me learn and develop over the last 17 years and has given me. It's been to make mistakes, to relearn, to have it, to do things differently. So I've been very, very lucky to grow my career here.

Sarah Nicastro: I love what you said. And I think that's, it's a great note to end on, but I think part of the power of diversity is that sense of freedom that no one person needs to know everything or be good at everything. But if you bring a group of people together that have varied experiences and knowledge and insights and perspective, then together you can achieve these great things. I was nodding and smiling because often now when I speak, when I do a keynote or a session and event, people will come up to me and say like, oh, that was so great. You're natural. And I think back to when I first started, it was very similar. I was horrible at it because I was on stage thinking I have to be the smartest person in the room if I'm going to stand up here and speak to everyone. And over time I realized like, no, actually, if I just be myself, that's when people appreciate what I'm saying. And value my contribution. And when I leaned into that, that's when things changed and I became more comfortable, but I also became a lot better at what I was doing because I wasn't trying to be something I wasn't. I was just embracing the fact that like you said, we all have unique value. And if you just bring that to the table and are willing to learn and listen and work well with others, that's where the beauty of it comes from. So. Thank you so much, Sarah, for coming and spending some time with me and sharing your experiences. I really appreciate it.

Sarah McKay: It's been great. Thank you.

Sarah Mckay: Yes. If you've missed any of our other podcasts from this month, I encourage you to go back and have a listen. You can find them all at futureoffieldservice.com. The Future of Field Service podcast is published in partnership with ISS. You can learn more at ISS.com. As always, thank you for listening. Thank you for listening to The Future of Field Service podcast. We hope today's conversation has provided you with a light bulb moment or given you some valuable food for thought. To learn more about any of the topics discussed in this episode, visit us at futureoffieldservice.com. If you enjoyed this episode, please don't forget to rate us on your favorite podcast platform to help others join the conversation. Also remember to hit the subscribe button and turn on notifications so you don't miss a future episode. The Future of Field Service podcast is published in partnership with IFS. To learn more, visit IFS.com. On behalf of everyone at Future of Field Service, I'm Sarah Nicastro. Thank you for listening.

Episode 257

In this episode of the Future of Field Service podcast, host Sarah Nicastro is joined by Daniel Trabel, Director of Field Service EMEA at Thermo Fisher Scientific, to share the success his organization has had in bringing more women into field service roles and why he feels those who ignore the need to take action to improve diversity will fail.

Daniel is a committed and visionary leader in service with a proven track record in the clinical diagnostics, life science, medical device, and biotechnology sectors. Before joining Thermo Fisher Scientific, he served as a Service Manager at Germany South for Waters Corporation, a Service Engineer at Cochlear, and held multiple roles at Bio-Rad Laboratories.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Google Podcasts.

Daniel: At the end, I think they will fail because they can't unleash the power of people and they can't unleash the power of this diversity, which is necessary to be successful. And we are dealing in a situation where when we talk about STEM, there's only a handful of people who can cover open positions and everybody is keen to get someone from somewhere. But if there is no someone, then there is no somewhere. And that's why I think we need to open up the talent pool. And if you don't do that and you are not thinking of changing your plans and your strategy in the long run, I think those companies will fail.

Sarah: Welcome to the Future of Field Service podcast, where we deliver both information and inspiration on how to differentiate your business through service and lead through change. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro, and I'm here to guide you through conversations around the trends that matter most, from business transformation and customer-centric innovation to the service evolution and attributes of effective leadership. Join us on this journey as we welcome industry leaders, visionaries, and experts to share their personal stories of change, challenges, triumphs, and transformation. Let's dive in. Today, we are going to be talking about why equity and inclusion are everyone's responsibility. This is a conversation as part of the focus content we're doing in March to discuss the International Women's Day theme of inspiring inclusion and talk about some of those related topics. So I'm thrilled to welcome to the podcast today, Daniel Trabel, who is the Director of Field Service for EMEA at Thermo Fisher Scientific. Daniel, welcome to the Future of Field Service podcast.

Daniel: Hello, and thanks for being here.

Sarah: Yes, thank you for being here. So before we get into our conversation for today, which I'm very excited about, tell everyone a bit about yourselves, your role, and Thermo Fisher.

Daniel: Yeah, maybe I'll start with the company because probably the majority of the listeners don't know what the Thermo Fisher is. We call it a hidden champion. It's a huge organization with more than 120,000 people worldwide. We are in the scientific research, analysis, and diagnostics market where we operate in different various segments like in the life science, clinical diagnostics, and the analytical instruments and healthcare business. We have a mission, and that mission is to make the world healthier, cleaner and safer. And that's a strong commitment, I would say. And I'm representing here the Instrument and Enterprise Services Organization, which is the service organization for our chromatography and mass spec instruments. Those instruments were used for water analyzers, for drug testing, for drug filtration, and also for any other diseases like rare diseases, like cancer resurgence. So it's an important area. I'm super proud of, let's say, supporting our customers in their business. A bit about myself. I am now 20 years in field service, so it's already a long time. I'm based in Germany, so excuse my bad accent, but that's okay. I'm the father of two four-year-old twins. It's two girls, and I'm super proud of the two. And that is also one of the reasons why we are speaking here and why it's important for me to bring more women into field service.

Sarah: Yeah, I love that. Yeah, it's sometimes when these issues become personal, it takes on a different lens. So I appreciate that. Now, we're going to talk today about some of the methods that you have had success with at Thermo Fisher, increasing gender diversity among field technicians. But before we do that, what I'd like to talk a little bit about to sort of frame this discussion and expand on what you just mentioned is the theme of International Women's Day this year is Inspiring Inclusion. But they talk even on the website about how everyone plays a role in that, right? And so we're focused at Future of Field Service this month on discussing the themes that are related to the International Women's Day focus. We're amplifying and sharing women's voices of leaders in service. But I think it's important to recognize that everyone, men, all different types of leaders, all different types of roles within the organization across the board can play a part, have to play a part in this issue. So men need to listen, engage, be allies, et. cetera. So what are your thoughts on that? And how do you perceive your role in this idea of gender equity and inclusion?

Daniel: Yeah, so I think it's a change over the years. So especially in service, there was a male environment and it was easy for male to network because everybody speaks the same language, the same thoughts. But it's also, I would say it's difficult because with that, you can't develop further and because it's like when you're in the same family without any input from a site, fresh ideas, great thoughts. Again, about myself, I think one of the reasons why I'm so, let's say, pushing for this year is because I don't want to have my two little girls only thinking they're in gorgeous, they're pretty and they are, let's say, good looking, but they are strong and intelligent and also self-confident. And that's something I'm trying to tell them every day. And we need to ensure that women don't feel that they are, let's say, the weak people and they can't do the same male do. So that's why I think we need to change a bit our thoughts about that. And it's not only the women's network. We also need to my overarching, let's say, in leadership positions to push that. Otherwise, it's difficult to drive that behavior change.

Sarah: Absolutely. And I think it's a good point that it's the idea of gender equity is something that it's not fair to expect for us to achieve that if it's women trying to take that on, right? It's a shared responsibility. I know one of the ways beyond what we're going to talk about today in your talent recruitment and hiring processes, but I know another role that you play is you sponsor the Women's Employee Resource Group in Germany, correct?

Daniel: Correct, yeah. We have a network of BRGs. We call it Business Research Groups, resource groups, where we also have a network between all those local groups. And I'm sponsoring the one which is located to the entity we have in Germany. Yeah, we have all over the globe as we have many entities and many divisions, networking groups where they start to network. This one is a pretty young one, I would say. It's about one year-old now, while we have others, they already do a lot of activities like external speakers, like sharing training and sharing ideas and articles and so on. But it's important that it's not just something for women. As I said, it's also important that we open this up for all the males, the men in the organization as well, to ensure that it's not a soup which you can't put your ingredient in because of your gender.

Sarah: Yeah. And you mentioned earlier that one of the risks of not working toward gender equity in field services is that you have a group of people who get stuck in similar thinking. The same thing could be true of a women's employee resource group that is only women because they can go and share challenges and commiserate and network. But we need people there that don't think that same way to understand better and to understand the issues, understand the challenges and think creatively about what we can do to take that back into the business and make changes. So I think you're absolutely right that it has to be inclusive of all and it has to be viewed as an issue that is important for everyone to think about and to be creative with, etc. And so that's a good segue to what we're going to talk about, which is really getting creative then within the business about, okay, so we know this is a challenge and what can we do differently? What can we do to solve it? So we have an issue here where in service across the world, there's a talent gap. So companies are already struggling to bring in talent of any sort. And then you marry that with the desire for more gender equality. And that led you to make some changes in your organization that have had some positive results. So to start, can you just give an overview of that journey?

Daniel: Yeah, so exactly that was our starting point. We had a problem to fill roles. We had a couple of open roles. It was only a few people applied or people which are not at all qualified for those positions. And it's a big cost for a company like us. I have an organization of 500 people. And if you have an attrition of 5%, imagine how many jobs we have always open in this. It's a cost, while on the other hand, it's a missing revenue. So there is a desperate need of having those roles filled as soon as possible. So we started the conversation, the discussion around the reasons of why we seal this male environment. Because we thought as a leadership team together that we need to have more women in the organization. And we need to attract more women to make sure that we create also a bigger pool of talents for those open roles. So we did that together with HR, together with TA, with engineers, and also with the managers. And really explored the reasons behind and how we can attract female. And so one of the barriers we identified was the entry expectations to those jobs. So typically what we were looking for is engineers with a long experience in the field, electronic skills, and let's say all the pallet you want to see. Ideally only 20 years old. So all this stuff everybody wants to have. But that's not applied for most of the females. So that's why we thought of how we can change that and how we can ensure that we can open up some kind of entry role to our organization. And also fit that into the business needs. And we said, okay, one of the systems which could work is so-called PIQ engineers. So we call it for preventive maintenance installation qualification. Because we are in a qualified environment for most of our instruments. And with that, you cut off all the expectations of repairing skills. So you can really, let's say, focus on the first level support things, on maintenance and get new hires more easier into the roles. And with that, also the benefits of having hot areas identified with a smaller radius of travel with less overnight stays. And also with more flexibility and a better work-life balance as a result. And what's quite interesting because this also gave us the opportunity to increase the response time SLA. So the improvement of the response time for our CM customers for the existing engineers. Because we were able to reduce the PM for those engineers so they can focus on repair jobs. So that was a benefit which came as a second. And then we looked at our job ads because we thought that the jobs were pretty male buzzwords included. So engineering, manage, technology, executions, all this stuff where you as a male can get that strong. I take that. And that's exactly what I want. So we use an external tool to analyze those job ads and think of how we can change that in a more human attractive way. And we found words like support, mentor, advocacy, recognition, flexibility, and really try to bring that and also reduce the expectation, the entry expectation. Even if we might have high expectation, we just didn't wrote that in the job ad. And what's quite interesting because of the results, we had a lot more applicants also from women. That was good.

Sarah: Okay, yeah. So that was step one. Step one was identifying the need and the opportunity to kind of look at this in a different way. And I think that's important because oftentimes when we talk about the lack of diversity in technicians, we want to change it, but we're not always willing to go to the extent of actually making changes, if that makes sense. It's acknowledged challenge that a lot of companies would like to see change, but they're not necessarily willing to dig in and say, okay, but what do we have to do differently to get a different result? And so I think that awareness and then willingness to take action, to try something different, to break out of the way it's always been done, right, is incredibly important.

Daniel: Yeah, I think you need to identify this as a need and not just say it's because it's woke. So if you want to change, I think you need to go for the change and also need to consider there's always a risk. But you need to take the risk. That's absolutely key.

Sarah: Yeah. And so then this analyzing the job postings, understanding, and I like that you brought in an external tool to do that because, again, a lot of times, even when we have good intention, you can get stuck in your own thinking or whatever the historical process has been. So having this new objective view on, okay, the way these postings are written or the qualifications that we're expecting or the way that we're positioning this, how might we be limiting ourselves on who would potentially apply or who would see themselves as a potential fit for Thermo? So you started there. We talked about the fact that with the introduction of this new role, you were able to then have the opportunity to not have as strict of entry-level requirements that you had before. I think, again, that required you, if I'm understanding you correctly, essentially taking what before was all rolled into one person's duty and sort of splitting that out, right? So again, it's a redefinition internally of, well, this has always been one person's job. Okay, but what if we change that so that this portion is a different role? This portion then can be more effective at this role. So it comes back to that creativity and willingness to think outside of the box. Now, you mentioned this briefly, but I want to go back to. Who all did you involve in this process? Because I think it's important to think about the cross-functionality of that and who was involved in the decision-making, et cetera.

Daniel: Yeah, so again, the decision to change that is not only from the management. And we need to ensure that if we change something which also has an influence to the team, that we include the team in this conversation. Especially those engineers which are already working in the organization. They have some fears that if they only focus on corrective maintenance, that they need to travel longer distances because they don't have the nearby PMs anymore to cover. And that were definitely talking points and risks we saw. At the end, it really turned out it was not the case. And they do basically the same what they did before. It's just a matter of being more flexible to our customer needs and giving the new hires focusing on this local PM and installation activities and give them the chance to work there. We also include a talent acquisition because they have the conversations up front with the talents and HR to understand also from a non-male environment what they think we should think about. So let's say that we as a male leadership, and to be honest in my leadership team at that time, there was only male, only men. And you have a specific way of thinking and you might have, let's say, any different facets, but you don't cover it all by everything and the diversity you might need for such a program. And we got a good feedback also on the fact that, let's say, male might apply for a position if there is only 50% they can match with, while women say, no, I'm not able to do this. And this is only a small portion, so I'm going to apply. So that's also the reason why we lowered the entry expectations advertised in the [inaudible] .

Sarah: Yeah. No, I think that's important because you can always have more discussions, right? I mean, this is just the first impression with folks, the first outreach to get people to apply. You can always talk further about what the expectations are. But I think the challenge is in an environment where we are struggling so much to get talent, if you are limiting yourself from the very beginning, you're missing a lot of potential, right? And so, if you lower that initial barrier to entry, then in those conversations, maybe you will find someone who doesn't meet every single requirement, but that you just feel has huge potential for your business. And then you as a company have the ability to make those decisions instead of them, you never coming across them, right? So absolutely. All right, so talk a little bit about what the results were here. So with this new segmentation of work and having sort of the repair work and the preventative work separate, you created six new positions and four of those were filled with women, which is really exciting. Talk a little bit about what you found and what the results ended up being.

Daniel: Yeah, that was quite interesting because at least I was expecting that high percentage of first application. But also second later, we really found great talent and we not just selected the women because we were looking for them. So they really stand out against the other applicants and they had a strong presentation and a strong background, which fits perfectly into the role as expected. Interestingly, also in the beginning, for sure, there was a bit of a bias from one or the other team members. And it took a while to get this digested. Also because the role was not as seen as a normal Field Service Engineer role. It was seen as, let's say, an Field Service Engineer as a second class maybe for one or the other. So it took a while to get on it. Now, interestingly, because they are so strong in PM, in qualification, because they do it every day, some of them already now move to a mentors as role, where they support new IS, which are going for another position, which includes repair activities. So they really are a subject matter expert on the areas where they are working on. While we have also two of them moving now to other positions and really stepped up the ladder and on their career progression. So that's a great result. I was not expecting that in such a short timeframe. So we're talking about three years here. That's what's [inaudible] . And I'm really excited about it.

Sarah: Yeah. There's two things I want to go back to. The first I was thinking actually about the success you had. So you created six new roles with this sort of redefined job posting, redefined entry-level criteria. And what I was thinking about is if you expand this conversation for just a moment beyond gender equity, and we just talk about diversity overall, right? The other thing I'm assuming you have the value of is when you have the entry-level expectation of this qualification, this qualification, this many years of experience, et cetera, you're bringing people from a set of very commonly shared experiences where when you change that to having less strict entry-level criteria, I'm assuming you see more diversity in background. Like, where people are coming from different roles, et cetera. Is that true?

Daniel: That's true. And there's another thing I want to mention, because also the fact that we have more diversity in the team gives us or gave us more soft skill variance means that more, and it's not applicable for any, but for everybody. But I think the, let's say, percentage of women having a more focus on mediation or let's say different way of tackling problems, different way of communication that really influenced the team spirit and how the team bond and work together as a team. And that really brought an asset to my team. But secondly, as you said, background is a point because we are dealing with customers which are running their own applications on our systems. So it's an open platform where you can develop methods and they do it day by day. And the women we attracted, they were former customers. So that means that those new employees were able to speak the same language and they brought in their skills and their experience from their life as a customer. And it made it much more easier for them to understand. What are the customer problems and also to identify we're talking about a technical or maybe an obligational situation and problem. And we're able to identify that upfront before roping up the whole system and exchange, I don't know, 10 parts at the end and realize, okay, it was not any single broken part. So that was my hope.

Sarah: Yeah. I'm just thinking, you mentioned earlier, this topic isn't one where it's, well, we need to care about this because we want to be woke or we're trying to check a box on a certain level of gender diversity. The companies that are really making progress are doing so because they know that diversity of thought is important to a business that is innovative and creative, right? And thinking about how reflecting on your job postings and your hiring criteria, things like that, not only helps you potentially recruit more women, but just helps you bring people into the business with more diverse backgrounds and more diverse thinking really helps you build teams that are more well-rounded, more creative in meeting customer needs and just strengthens the business. And I think. That's a really big point.

Daniel: Yeah, there is a saying, I think Albert Einstein said that ages ago, an evening where everybody has the same meaning is a lost evening. And that happens when you have a team where everybody is with the same background and with the same, let's say, character and everything is the same. So we need to have diversity to have high performing teams.

Sarah: Absolutely. So the other thing I want to go back to, which is just such a, I think, really impressive point is that of those six new positions, you have people that relatively new to the business are already progressing into leadership roles. And I think this is important because we need to think about not just how do we bring more diversity into the business, but how do we support and enable that progression, right? So that's one of the challenges we see is because bringing in frontline workers is an acute need for the business, we can focus all of the efforts there. But ultimately, you want to have diversity reflected in all layers of the business, right? And so the fact that the people you're bringing in are already progressing through, I think, is really impressive.

Daniel: Yeah. And it's also interesting and something I can share is that our German team is now led by a woman. So the more than 100 engineers which were on their own before end, they are now led by a woman. That's a massive change. I already see some benefits. So it's really good to see that.

Sarah: Yeah. And so that leads me to the question then about how has this focus on bringing more women into the business? How has that made you then need to reflect on what is their experience like once they're part of the team? Because I have to think there's some evolution there in what the culture feels like. We have to make sure that if you change the job postings and the hiring criteria to get more women in, that's great. But then you have to make sure they're coming into an environment where they do feel it's inclusive and they don't feel ostracized or uncomfortable or have a negative experience. So is there any work you had to do to sort of carry the focus through to make sure that once they were a part of the team, they were having a positive experience?

Daniel: Yeah, I think we haven't done any specific, but for sure, when you have a small team where you're the only woman in the team, there might be difficulties, especially when you have, let's say, a lot of engineers are doing service for many years without any influence of a woman in the team. So there's always a stalling phase in team building and the team had to go to those phases. But it's the responsibility of the line managers to take care that every friction identified is turned away and the whole management team stand behind this program. That's why we included them in the very beginning. At the end, I think they feel happy. The whole team appreciates the diversity we have. And we're not talking about diversity, just male and female. We're also talking about people of color and not so many in Europe, but also in North America, my counterpart and any other. And we as a company, we embrace employees for inclusion and diversity. And we have a corporate program where we always share success stories and so on. And in fact, in case of the field service, we work closely with the sales department. We work closely with application support where we have a lot of women in the organization. So there's a lot of touch points. And also the fact that we have these ERGs giving them the chance to connect between each other, even if they're maybe only one in the male and dominated team, and that they give them the sense of belonging.

Sarah: Yeah. I think when I'm reflecting on what you're saying, I think there's three aspects to this. One is you mentioned you had support from top leadership down on this initiative. And I think that's important because you're going to make progress on what you're paying attention to. And when things arise that need to be navigated, it needs to be a shared and aligned objective that everyone understands the importance of. The second thing is, to your point, being willing to address problems as they arise. Don't ignore things that are potential issues. Don't sweep things under the rug that shouldn't be swept under the rug. Be willing to face things head on and be willing to dig into any behavior or thinking that needs to be changed and work with the teams to do that. And then the third is, whether it's through the business resource group, whether it's through these new team members, direct supervisor and above, make sure that they feel connected so that if they are having experiences that aren't comfortable or aren't ideal, they can surface those as well and figure out how to work through it. Make sure that they feel supported, not only in the performative aspects of their role, but in the mission of, we want you to succeed here. And so we want this to be an inclusive environment. We want this to be a positive culture. And if you are experiencing things otherwise, we want to work through that. I think if you can make sure you're focused on all three of those components, you're getting ahead of anything that could potentially be a challenge. And it sounds like obviously, in your scenario, if these people are already progressing through the business and leading teams, you're doing a good job of that, or they wouldn't be growing within Thermo Fisher, right? So that's good. So Daniel, I'm hoping with the success that you've had in this area, what have you learned that you think is replicable in another area of the business or by another company in terms of, if you are committed to this, these things work?

Daniel: Yeah, it's not always that you can adapt one by one. In our case, we have the lucky situation that's because of the application background and the fact that our customers are, let's say, focusing on application. We had some kind of synergy in areas, I can assume, where this is not the case. It might be a bit more difficult. But nevertheless, I think it's important to ensure that you understand that you need to change something. You need to think about how you can lower the criteria and how you can find a solution as an example, and that was also one of our issues in the beginning, due to the fact that they don't have an electronics background, we had an issue with the electrical safety. So we decided to go for an internal program and implemented that certification program with safety officers. So we got rid of that risk and that criteria. And we were now able also for them to that they can sell from their own undercovers and replace a board if necessary and so on. So there is always a solution. And don't think about the problem, think about the solution. Once I tell you, gets an elephant in the room, you will think about the elephant, but not about the solution, how to get the elephant out of the room. So I think it's important to really step aside, step a step back and say, okay, that's my problem. Okay, but how should my solution looks like and how can I get to that point? And it doesn't matter which business you cover. I think it's important that you really map the situation and try things out. And maybe you're disruptive and you take a risk. But when you don't change it, you will fail from the very beginning.

Sarah: Yeah. And I guess, what would you say to the people who are unwilling to get creative with this issue? Or maybe don't even recognize the importance of it?

Daniel: At the end, I think they will fail because they can't unleash the power of people and they can't unleash the power of this diversity, which is necessary to be successful. And we are dealing in a situation where when we talk about STEM, there's only a handful of people who can cover open positions and everybody is keen to get someone from somewhere. But if there is no someone, then there is no somewhere. And that's why I think we need to open up the talent pool. And if you don't do that and you are not thinking of changing your plans and your strategy in the long run, I think those companies will fail. That's my clear statement here.

Sarah: Yeah. And I think often the objection is, well, it's more effort, it's more cost, right? But at the end of the day, you can point to these specific things you've done to review job postings, to create new roles because you understand what the barriers to entry are for more diverse candidates. You redefine things to reduce those barriers. You mentioned you have this electrical certification that is necessary, but rather than expecting people to come in with that, you looked for a way to provide that internally. These are all changes that you have proven are possible if you are willing to do the work. And I think you believe that the effort is well worth the outcome.

Daniel: Absolutely is.

Sarah: Yeah. Well, thank you for coming to share. Your little girls are lucky to have a dad who has the perspective you have and is working really hard to make changes that are benefiting diversity in the workforce now and will certainly have an impact once they get there. So I appreciate you caring about this topic personally, but also coming to share specifically what you've been able to do that has had a direct positive impact on the business so that others can hopefully be inspired to make some of those same changes.

Daniel: Thank you for having me here, Sarah. Really appreciate it.

Sarah: It's a pleasure. All right. You can find more by visiting us at futureoffieldservice.com. Be sure to stay tuned throughout this month as we continue to talk about topics that are important to inspiring inclusion. The Future of Field Service podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more at ifs.com. As always, thank you for listening. Thank you for listening to the Future of Field Service podcast. We hope today's conversation has provided you with a light bulb moment or given you some valuable food for thought. To learn more about any of the topics discussed in this episode, visit us at futureoffieldservice.com. If you enjoyed this episode, please don't forget to rate us on your favorite podcast platform to help others join the conversation. Also, remember to hit the subscribe button and turn on notifications so you don't miss a future episode. The Future of Field Service podcast is published in partnership with IFS. To learn more, visit ifs.com. On behalf of everyone at Future of Field Service, thank you for listening.

Episode Resources:

Daniel Trabel on LinkedIn
Thermo Fisher Scientific Website

Episode 256

In this episode of the Future of Field Service podcast, host Sarah Nicastro welcomes back Dot Mynahan, who recently retired from her role as Executive Director of Field Operations at Otis Elevator after nearly 32 years with the company, to discuss her journey and her thoughts on the International Women's Day theme of inspire inclusion.

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Dot Mynahan: "I think the first lesson learned is never be afraid to ask for help. Especially at Otis, there was a culture of if you ask for help, people will make sure that they help you. And from day one with the organization all the way through my last day at the company. I mean, even now, I could call up anybody at Otis and say, hey, I need help. And I would get it. They're amazing. It's an amazing team. I think the other lesson learned is to think about your career as a lattice versus a ladder. Everybody seems to think it's important to get to the next step. But if you go up vertically, you lose the breadth of knowledge that you can get if you take some laterals. And so I think that there's great value in a lattice approach to your career."

Sarah Nicastro: Welcome to the Future of Field Service podcast, where we deliver both information and inspiration on how to differentiate your business through service and lead through change. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro, and I'm here to guide you through conversations around the trends that matter most, from business transformation and customer-centric innovation to the service evolution and attributes of effective leadership. Join us on this journey as we welcome industry leaders, visionaries, and experts to share their personal stories of change, challenges, triumphs, and transformation. Let's dive in. Today, we're going to be talking with Dot Mynahan, who was formerly the Executive Director for Field Operations at Otis Elevator Americas and spent nearly or just around 32 years with Otis and in services. So we're going to take a look at her experience as a woman in service over the span of a few decades and just hear a bit what that was like. So with International Women's Day on March 8th, the goal this month is to amplify the voice of women in the industry as well as elevate the topics related to the International Women's Day theme of Inspire Inclusion. So Dot, welcome back to the Future of Field Service podcast. How are you?

Dot Mynahan: Thank you, Sarah. I'm well, thanks. And I appreciate the opportunity to speak with you again.

Sarah Nicastro: Absolutely. I'm so glad you're here. So you are someone, you've been on the podcast before, and you are someone who has stood out to me in my time in field service as a woman voice in this space. You've done a lot throughout your career to advocate for women and to help support women. And I'm thrilled to have this discussion with you today. Now, you just recently retired from your role with Otis after nearly 32 years with the company. Just congratulations, first of all.

Dot Mynahan: Thank you.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, you look tan, you look rested. So I would imagine retirement is treating you well.

Dot Mynahan: It's treating me very well. Thanks.

Sarah Nicastro: I love that. So I guess to start, 32 years with Otis is a major accomplishment. And can you just share with everyone a bit what your career journey looked like?

Dot Mynahan: I'd be happy to. Thanks, Sarah. So I started as a temp. Believe it or not, I answered a newspaper ad in the Portland, Maine newspaper looking for a service clerk. And so I started and Otis had a policy at the time that all new hires had to be hired as a temp. So I started October 1st of 1990, and I was supposed to go permanent in December. And at the end of November, they implemented a hiring freeze. That put me in limbo until a position opened up once the hiring freeze was lifted. So it was a little nerve-wracking, but I knew when I worked there, I was like, I know I'm going to love this industry. I just knew it. Like it was just a perfect fit. So I hung in there and they were very good to me. Even as a temp, I hung around. And then June of 92 was actually when the first opening became available, where I was hired full-term as a service clerk. And then shortly thereafter, I was offered the opportunity to go into a training program to become a supervisor, which meant I spent 18 months out in the field working as a helper. So working with the tools, working with the mechanics, invaluable experience. And I would say the last four months of that time, the regional field ops manager who was overseeing my program had a really unique idea of every supervisor in New England who reported to him who went on vacation, he would send me into that office to cover for the week. So think about this. I have a year of field experience under my belt, a few years with Otis under my belt, but walking into an office and sitting in the chair of a supervisor, who typically had 20 plus years experience, many, many years in the field. I think the first supervisor I sat in his chair, he was a 40 plus-year Otis veteran. And so the mechanics would come in the office and say, who are you? I'm like, well, I'm Dot. And I'm training to become a supervisor. But what it did was build an incredible network. So I was able to meet all of the folks in all of the Otis offices across New England. I knew the supervisors, the branch managers, the sales reps, and started to know the mechanics. And then also, it was interesting because I knew the systems, I knew parts, but I had worked in the field. By the end of the week, I typically had a line of mechanics sitting at my desk asking me for help to fix things. Whether it's problems with what the equipment was that was on their route, but they definitely took a liking to me by the end of the week. So it was a lot of fun. From there, I actually got my first supervisor job. I went from Providence. I was there for about two years up to New Hampshire. Otis has an employee scholar program. So I went to school at night, got my MBA. At the end of that, I became a general manager, first in Albany, then back to Portland, Maine. And then I had the opportunity to become a general manager of a larger office in Boston. And then the transition happened to field ops. Solely field ops, where I came out of the P&L, went to the D.C. Area, and was the regional field ops manager there from 07 to 15. And then in 15, I had the opportunity to go to Latin America as the director of field operations. Didn't know Spanish, didn't know Portuguese, but was willing to take the job and give it a shot. Loved it. And then in 2018, I transitioned into my Executive Director role for the Americas.

Sarah Nicastro: Wow. So quite a journey. And I always say that I think it's really interesting when, so specifically thinking about like women in service and that team. I think it's really interesting when I speak with women about their progression. Like you started as a temp and you ended as the executive director of the field operations for the Americas. That's obviously very telling of your drive and your character and your abilities, right? It's also telling of the organization, I always think. When someone has been with a company for 20, 30 years, it does let you know that there's things going right. Otherwise, people would not stay around. And I think particularly when you see women advancing into leadership roles, it's representative of a company really making an effort and putting action behind this idea of equity and inclusion. So really good stuff. So looking back, what are a couple of your proudest moments?

Dot Mynahan: I think the biggest achievement I have was starting forward, which was the employee resource group for women in field operations. We started that in North America with a group of 12 women. It expanded to over 500 women internationally and really has made a difference in the careers and career ladders, not only for women in field operations and the offices, but even in the field. Because we talked a lot about career ladders and there are career ladders even within the field organization, that I'm proud to see a lot of the women getting the opportunities that they deserve. So it's just been an incredible organizational structure to have that employee resource group that Otis supported as well as they did. And so that's probably my number one goal or achievement. And then I think the latest one, I want to go current, is the integration of Otis ONE, which is our IoT product, into our service operation. So whether it be improved maintenance, guidance. I was looking at where faults are occurring and where should maintenance occur on your next visit. Looking at the time it takes to troubleshoot a callback or even if you need to respond to a callback, if we can see that the car's running. It was just a lot of fun and a lot of energy in looking at what's possible with that data. So that's been a lot of fun. I've really loved that a lot. And then I think the other one is we're just getting ready to go into production for a new equipment product called the Gen3 Core. And we took that through pilot and achieved our targeted installation hours. So just a lot of work, a lot of input from the field. Fantastic team on my team that just really drove the design of the product and really making it field friendly. And I think the customers are going to be thrilled. It rides like a dream. So I'm really excited to hear the feedback from the customers.

Sarah Nicastro: I love that. What's standing out to me about your answers is. And so I'm going to tie this back to just the theme of leadership as a whole, right? You are not going back to the glory days. You could easily. I think many people would. Just without thinking about it, go back to some fond memory of this, that, or the other thing. You're pulling really recent examples. I'm talking about how exciting the potential is. And I think that this, it reminds me of the importance in leadership today of bringing that positivity to change. So the only real difference between a challenge and a possibility is the attitude you have about it. But if you are a leader who can not fake it, but be excited about the potential, okay, this new technology, yes, it may be complex and we have a lot to figure out, but it's going to be so cool. That attitude is everything, right? And so that's what I'm thinking about as you're responding with these really recent examples is you're not going back to a lot of people that have been in a company for 32 years would just revert to the good old days and that sort of thing. And you're looking at these really recent things. And I love that. So when you think about the journey in terms of, are there any challenges that stand out to you of being a woman in a male-dominated field?

Dot Mynahan: I just never felt it. Of course, you run into those situations where a mechanic isn't thrilled to have you as their boss. I had a mechanic at one point in time come up to me and say, day one, walking into this office, I'm now their supervisor, saying, I've never worked for a woman before. I'm not going to start now. And I said, well, you have two options. I'm either your boss or you can go work someplace else. There's not another option. This is the structure and I am your supervisor. And why don't we just give it a shot? Let's see what we can do. And by the time he retired, he came up to me and he said, I remember day one. And I remember what I said to you. And I'm so sorry. You're the best boss I ever had. Because he gave it a shot and he was willing to give it a shot. And I think that spoke volumes for him. And there are times where I go, I would go to meetings. I'd be the only woman in the room. But I never felt that. I just never had that feeling of being a one-off or not being able to sit at the table. And maybe it's a cultural thing at Otis, where I was so accepted. But I was. And so it just wasn't really difficult.

Sarah Nicastro: I think thinking about your response to him, you were firm, but you were also, you showed like you were firm in I'm not going to take any crap. Okay. Like you're not going to treat me poorly. We're either going to make this work or you're not going to be here. You were firm, but you were also then, and I want to make this work. Like let's make this work, right? But that did make me think the ability to do that, I think has to be rooted in feeling empowered, right? There would probably be women in that position if they didn't feel supported and empowered in the role they're in fully. That wouldn't have felt comfortable saying, look, I want to make this work. Let's make this work. Or you're going to go need to go find something else. So I think that probably is part of it. And this is where I think it's always a combination. It's always a combination of that tenacity and that drive and the right type of support within the organization. A thought of an extra question I want to ask you, which is, I'm sure this is hard to answer because you only know what the experience has been. You can't really project what it would have been otherwise, but do you feel like having a woman CEO has an impact on what this has looked like for you at Otis and for other women at Otis?

Dot Mynahan: A hundred percent.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah.

Dot Mynahan: I think there's a couple of things. First of all, UTC started our relationship and our commitment to Paradigm for Parity, right? Which is saying that we'll be at 50% parity in leadership roles by 2030. So UTC started it. We became an independent company. We've continued our commitment to it. Judy is extremely committed to it. And I think I always go back to, if you can see it, you can be it. And I think Otis does a good job of highlighting and sharing success stories so that you can inspire others to look for those roles and know that they can be successful and know that they'll be supported. And so I really think it's a culture at Otis to ensure success.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, that's a good point. And just to be clear, by asking that question, I wasn't trying to infer that Judy herself has made this so. It's more so that it's indicative of a company culture that is really valuing diversity and putting their action where the talk is, right? So that's what I meant. I don't think that in any way, you need to have a woman CEO to create a positive environment or to have that impact. I was just thinking about how it's telling of the company's focus. Okay, Dot, so we talked about some of your proudest moments, we talked about some of the challenges. What would you say are a couple of the biggest lessons you feel like you learned over the course of your leadership career?

Dot Mynahan: I think the first lesson learned is never be afraid to ask for help. Especially at Otis, there was a culture of if you ask for help, people will make sure that they help you. And from day one with the organization all the way through my last day at the company. I mean, even now I could call up anybody at Otis and say, hey, I need help. And I would get it. It's amazing. It's an amazing team. I think the other lesson learned is to think about your career as a lattice versus a ladder. Everybody seems to think like it's important to get to the next step. But if you go up vertically, you lose the breadth of knowledge that you can get if you take some laterals. And so I think that there's great value in a lattice approach to your career in order to expand the breadth of your knowledge and your experience, also your network.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, I was thinking about when you said early on that role where you would go and fill in with the supervisors, you got to know different teams really well. And I think that's another thing I was thinking about in the back of my mind in terms of leadership skills is you can never minimize the impact of face-to-face time and listening and learning and not just going to say, okay, I'm in charge. But getting to know people and getting to know their challenges and understanding what it is that's going on in a particular functional area or region, that makes a lot of sense.

Dot Mynahan: Right. And I think the last piece of the puzzle is to always take the interview. If someone is approaching you about a potential, they're seeing something in you that they believe makes you a good fit for the role. And I think that the fit the lesson for women is men will apply to a job if they have 60% of the credentials and women will apply if they have 100. So I did a lot of mentoring, a lot of coaching over the years to a lot of women who had been approached to roles or I was approaching them for roles. And I'm like, look, I understand that you may not think you're ready, but if we look at all of the skills that you bring to the table and what you're capable of, then this role will take you to the next level. This role will take you from a regional footprint to a national footprint. And then there's learnings there. And even if you go to an America's level footprint, some of that is influencing remotely. And that's a big lesson for a lot of leadership to learn is how do you influence when you're remote? Now, obviously, through COVID, a lot of us were forced to learn that. But pre-COVID, that was a big part of me going to Latin America was how could I influence, learn to influence remotely? So there's a lot to be said there. And I think that always taking the interview, even if you're not successful, you've met a person in leadership who you may work with or for down the line. And I can cite several examples of that happened to me. And I was so happy that I took the interview, even though I wasn't successful, that I made those connections, which later on in the career ended up becoming great friendships.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, because they might come back and say, hey, Dot, we didn't think you were a fit for this role. But now that we've met you and we know a bit about you, there's this other thing and you would be great for that. Yeah.

Dot Mynahan: And there's always somebody better. There's no harm in applying for a job and there's a better candidate. You still learn something from the application process, the interview process. It's okay that there was someone that was a better fit for that role. There could be other roles in your future.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, that's good advice. So the theme for International Women's Day this year is Inspire Inclusion. So what do you think about when you hear this year's theme?

Dot Mynahan: I love the word inspire. I think it's a great verb when you think about it, right? Because to me, inspire invokes passion and an urge to act, an urge to do something, right? So how do you create in others an urge to act? And so when I saw the theme, I was like, oh, my gosh, they nailed it this year. That's such a great theme. And so I think I was excited. I was excited to see the theme and I'm excited to see what people do with it.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah. And this will be reflected in our content this month. They talk on the webpage for about the theme, inspiring inclusion is everyone's job. Yes, on this platform throughout this month, we want to amplify women's voices, but we also want to talk about the role everyone plays in inspiring inclusion. That's very important. So when it comes to areas of service that are still struggling with not only bringing more women into service, but diversity as a whole, what do you think are the reasons that as an industry, we're still not where we want to be? What do you think needs to happen next?

Dot Mynahan: I think the number one factor is unconscious bias. When you think about when you interview people, you feel very comfortable with someone who looks like you, thinks like you, went to the same school, you know, that you have a lot of things that you share in common. And so I think that there's just a tendency to default to those candidates because they're comfortable candidates, right? But diversity of thought brings a lot to the table. And diversity of candidates brings a lot to the tables. I think we just have to look at and address and really think about unconscious bias and try to eliminate it. So if you're part of a hiring panel and you're having a discussion post-interview process and reviewing the candidates and somebody is advocating for a candidate and you're like, okay, why? What makes this person the better candidate, right? And I think it helps too if you start the whole process is to have a diverse slate, force yourself to develop a diverse slate of candidates. Because you'll have a gem in there that you didn't expect to have.

Sarah Nicastro: It's hard to really make progress if consciously or unconsciously you're still selecting from a pretty homogenous group, right? I mean, you have to first think about how do we articulate the roles and post the roles and reflect on the requirements that we're listing and things like that to make sure that you aren't imposing that bias before you ever even get to an interview situation, right? And again, knowing that there's that difference between men and women on men will apply at 60%, women 100%, you really have to think about are we inadvertently turning potential candidates away by the terminology we're using or an outdated requirement or something like that? That's a really good point.

Dot Mynahan: We had a great example of that in Brazil. So we would hire 20 to 40 trainees every year to become route mechanics to go out and do routine maintenance on maintenance routes. And we hired from local electrical, mechanical, engineering type students, like graduates. And in the years prior to Forward, maybe we had four to six women who would apply and be accepted into the program. Through Forward, we worked with HR and through the president of the region, he said, I want gender parity in this next hiring. So it really forced us to think, okay, if you want gender parity in the result, what do we have to do? So we changed the advertising, right? Just like you said, the advertising said this year women are encouraged to apply. And we took a graduate from the program and we had her picture with another male technician in all of the advertising that we did. So they could see that a woman had been successful in the role. Over 400 applicants applied, women applicants applied out of 1,200. And we achieved gender parity.

Sarah Nicastro: Part of it is remembering if you don't do different, you're not going to get different. So I think especially in field service, there is a lot of, whether it's, I don't want to say unwillingness, whether it's not really wanting to change or whether it's just habitual. Like the requirements have been the requirements for however long and we just haven't sought to really dig in there, right? It's that, like you said, it was that prompt of, okay, well, we need to achieve this goal. Now what do we need to do differently? I think everyone needs to be thinking about that. You mentioned that with Forward, how you worked with HR to get better at that piece. Looking at the work that you did with Forward and how it grew over time, what are the other sort of, if you were to bullet point a couple of its sort of missions and purposes that it played within the company? Because I'm just thinking listeners could reflect on, do they have something similar? Or if they have a group, is there areas of action that they might be missing? Can you talk a little bit about that?

Dot Mynahan: Yeah. So one of the things that we did was had training, technical training as part of our meetings. Not every meeting was technical training. Maybe once a quarter we would have a technical training topic. And the women were happy to have that because they felt comfortable asking questions in that environment because they knew it was a mostly female audience. Whereas if they were in a regular training class and they were one of few, then they would feel uncomfortable asking questions. So that was very successful. The other thing we did in talking about career ladders and lattices is we celebrated different roles in the company, even within the field, right? If somebody was a field employee and had progressed within the field from an apprentice to a mechanic to maybe an adjuster level mechanic or had taken a role as an education instructor for the union, like we celebrated those and we showed their picture and we had them speak at the meetings. And we did the same thing with an Otis to show that most of the people who were in leadership roles and who were being successful, not only had the career ladder, they had the lattice and they also put themselves out there in leadership roles, right? Even as a field employee going to teach at union school at night. So then they were leading a classroom and learning those skills. So we really celebrated that. And we tried to share and put pictures and names to success so that the old adage of, if you can see it, you can be it. We lived that. And tried to share everything that we could to just show that to encourage other women to apply. And then if somebody approached us about a job or an opportunity, we would do coaching on maybe at night. I'd have a call and say, okay, you're going to apply for this job. Why do you want this job? What's your interest in it? Okay. Let's talk about what the job entails and what you need to think about as you're interviewing for the role. And think about the experience because a lot of people say, well, I don't have that experience that another person has who's applying for a role. Okay, that could be true. But what do you bring to the table? What have you done that you bring to the table?

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, I think there was a point I wanted to bring up, which is this idea of when we think about, I wanted to first comment on the point you made about showing pictures and names and having people speak. Because it brings me back to the reaction you had to the term inspire, which I think is rooted in its emotion, right? And we're people, we're humans, we connect with other people. So rather than putting up a stat, in the meeting that says, this month or this quarter, six women advanced, okay? It makes it personal. That's when you have that connection to, I see them doing this, I could do this too. And so I think it's something to keep in mind. The other thing is related to a lot of the coaching and that sort of thing. I think programs like this are important because when we go back to the theme of inspiring inclusion, that isn't at one level. The goal should not be, let's get more women or more diverse candidates into the organization. It needs to be at every level. And that means helping people understand their strengths and progress throughout their careers. And whether that's lattice or ladder, that's not the point. The point is the job isn't done when we are successful, like getting those 400 applicants and even hiring parity, it's all the way through. I think obviously at Otis, having a woman CEO is helpful because you have that relational point all the way up. But there's a lot of organizations where that isn't the case. And companies, I don't think, are putting as much thought into not just the initial task, but what happens all the way through. Are there any other things beyond the coaching and mentoring that you think are important in making sure that women are progressing through roles within the company?

Dot Mynahan: I think that comes to the coaching piece of the puzzle is part of what we would talk about as well. When I talk to women who are interested in progressing with the company is, okay, so you want to be a leader. You're not a leader now. You want to be a leader. What can you do that would show your leadership skills? So whether that's a volunteer opportunity where you set up a volunteer opportunity in your branch. And then you take a picture of yourself leading it, you post it on LinkedIn, you're leading it, right? And not that it's me, but just the visual of you're in the lead, right? Now people associate you with a leadership position. And the same thing with the employee resource groups, right? Become involved in those, take a leadership role in those. Everything that you can do, whether it's at work or outside of work in the community, where you can share that you have leadership capabilities. Do it.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah.

Dot Mynahan: Do it. Put it on social media. Let people know I'm interested.

Sarah Nicastro: Absolutely. And that's where we come back to talking about at the beginning, your journey. It's part personal responsibility for owning your journey and your growth and your expansion of knowledge and your expansion of your network and your engagement in resource groups, activities to continue to work on yourself. And it's part company mission to, and leaders, leaders and company itself to figure out what role they need to play in building programs and processes that are targeted toward removing that unconscious bias and taking real action behind this topic. Awesome. Okay, so you're retired. Is there anything you're able to share on what's next for Dot?

Dot Mynahan: I call it, I tell my family it's Dot 2.0.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah.

Dot Mynahan: So it's really a chance to do what I want to do. And I can choose to stay retired. I can choose to go back to work. I'm still vacillating between that. But in the meantime, I walk the talk. So I'm going to be participating for the National Elevator Industry in a SkillsUSA conference in Atlanta, which is a student-run organization that helps place graduates into ready for trade roles. And so I'll be helping there. I'm also very much involved in Tradeswomen Build Nations, which also helps our women in the field. And I'll be participating in New Orleans this fall with that. And then I'm really looking for opportunities, whether to be served on a board or to maybe work for a smaller company and help a startup or help a PE-backed company that's looking to get into digital transformation of their operations or how to integrate IoT into their service operations. Like all of the stuff that I was passionate about at Otis, I have the skills to share. So I'm willing to entertain those possibilities. But I just think, like, the future is so open for me. I don't want to constrain myself in my opportunities. I just want to be open to them and see where it takes me.

Sarah Nicastro: Yeah, what a wonderful spot to be in. And congratulations to you again for getting yourself there and a wonderful 32 years and the work you're continuing to do to help support women in the trades and diversity in the trades. And we'll be excited to see what comes next. So thank you for spending some time with me today and sharing your journey and your knowledge and really appreciate you.

Dot Mynahan: Thank you, Sarah. It's been a pleasure.Sarah Nicastro: Thanks, Dot. Thank you for listening to the Future of Field Service podcast. We hope today's conversation has provided you with a light bulb moment or given you some valuable food for thought. To learn more about any of the topics discussed in this episode, visit us at futureoffieldservice.com. If you enjoyed this episode, please don't forget to rate us on your favorite podcast platform to help others join the conversation. Also, remember to hit the subscribe button and turn on notifications so you don't miss a future episode. The Future of Field Service podcast is published in partnership with IFS. To learn more, visit ifs.com. On behalf of everyone at Future of Field Service, thank you for listening.

Episode 255

In this episode of the Future of Field Service podcast, host Sarah Nicastro discusses how Future of Field Service plans to celebrate this year’s International Women’s Day theme of inspiring inclusion and shares some of her favorite words of wisdom from women featured on the podcast this past year.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Google Podcasts.

Episode Highlights:

[03:25] - In episode 206, Cait Donovan challenges the common belief that avoiding burnout is solely an individual's responsibility, arguing instead that it's a broader issue tied to societal and organizational factors.
[04:32] - In episode 209, Trina Stargard Nielsen enlightens us with her wisdom on leadership in the era of digital transformation. She champions the essence of humility in leadership, highlighting the necessity of embracing a team where members may surpass you in intelligence, education, or even salary.
[07:00] - In episode 217, Mita Mallick unpacks the myths holding us back from real progress. In her latest book, "Reimagine Inclusion," Mita challenges 13 common misconceptions, encouraging us to confront the uncomfortable truths that prevent meaningful change.
[08:40] - In episode 221, Marie Cobessi stresses the importance of gender equity within the organization, advocating for increased representation of women at all levels, from technicians to management. She believes the visibility of women in diverse roles is crucial for inspiring change and promoting the idea of "Why not me?" among potential female candidates.
[11:00] - In episode 224, Lauren Winans highlights the importance of treating employees as human beings, stressing that neglecting soft skills can lead to significant turnover costs. She advocates for viewing every business element through a lens that asks whether it will benefit or harm employees.
[12:50] - In episode 226, Christine Miners and Rick Lash share priceless insights on redefining leadership beyond simple task completion. They note a common pitfall where leaders equate their value simply with getting tasks done, neglecting the essential roles of reflection, clarity, and empowerment. This mindset shift is crucial for fostering a culture of innovation and empowering employees.
[15:05] - In episode 236, Sara Smith unveils her inspiring journey from a toxic background to becoming a trailblazer in field service by overcoming gender-based challenges and harassment in her early days as a service technician. Her story is a powerful reminder of the importance of creating supportive and inclusive workplaces, especially for women in technical roles.
[18:54] - In episode 241, Linda Tucci underscores the role of authentic communication, compassionate leadership, and the power of vulnerability and self-reflection. Linda's journey highlights how facing challenges can deepen our understanding of leadership, making her insights incredibly valuable.
[21:26] - In episode 246, Caroline Häggström Marklund dismantles the myth that putting people first is ineffective, highlighting how it empowers teams, fosters complex problem-solving, and enhances customer relationships. By trusting and enabling her 400-strong team to navigate their roles with autonomy towards shared goals, she showcases the importance of adaptability and trust in today's work environments.
[24:20] - In episode 248, Ann Sørensen explores the shift towards valuing attitude and behavior alongside technical knowledge. This approach, increasingly adopted by service organizations, underlines the critical role of diversity in all its forms, not just gender equity but diversity of thought, background, and perspective. Such diversity fuels innovation, creativity, and growth, which are essential for business evolution.

Episode Notes:

Episode 206: Busting the Biggest Burnout Myths
Cait Donovan’s Website
Episode 209: A Logistics Leader’s Perspective on Innovation, Digital Transformation, Diversity and More
Trine Storgaard Nielsen on LinkedIn
Episode 217: Debunking the Myths that Impede Workplace Inclusion
Mita Mallick on LinkedIn
Episode 221: The Pillars of Transformation in Focus at Fnac/Darty Episode
Marie (Sabet) Cobessi on LinkedIn
Episode 224: Is the Soft Skills Gap Growing?
Lauren Winans on LinkedIn
Episode 226: How Can Service Leaders Nurture Empowerment?
Christine Miners on LinkedIn
Rick Lash on LinkedIn
Episode 236: Reimagining Change Management for Today’s Service Needs
Sara Smith on LinkedIn
Episode 241: What I’ve Learned About Leadership Through My Breast Cancer Journey
Linda Tucci on LinkedIn
Episode 246: Vattenfall Customer Service's Prize-Winning People First Strategy
Caroline Häggström Marklund on LinkedIn
Episode 248: Building Competence in Service – Today and Into the Future with Alfa Laval
Ann Sørensen on LinkedIn

Episode 254

In this episode of the Future of Field Service podcast, host Sarah Nicastro is joined by Frank Odogu, Director of Lifecycle Services at Atlas Converting Equipment, for a discussion around moving beyond seeking only technical skill in service and taking a more holistic talent approach to meet future needs.

Frank has over eight years of leadership experience in the global service sector at Atlas Converting Equipment, where he is committed to providing outstanding customer support and leading revenue growth. Frank holds a Six Sigma Green Belt certification and is highly skilled in IIoT solutions, process engineering, and enhancing manufacturing processes.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Google Podcasts.

Episode Highlights:

[02:46] - Businesses are increasingly distinguishing themselves through superior service, which demands a workforce skilled in technical aspects, emotional awareness, and business acumen. This trio of skills is crucial for delivering outstanding customer experience. However, finding talents who excel in all three areas is challenging, especially regarding business awareness and emotional intelligence. Developing these competencies requires a thorough approach, including training and real-world application, to prepare a well-rounded and effective workforce.
[12:03] - Effective leadership is key in steering the focus of talent beyond immediate tasks to embrace the broader organizational vision. This involves providing teams with the necessary tools and knowledge for their roles, as well as fostering a culture of engagement and continuous improvement. Leadership should recognize and develop solutions that serve both customers and employees, ensuring the integration of digital innovations benefits all stakeholders.
[16:00] - Navigating the challenge of balancing immediate needs with future planning, especially in talent management, is essential for sustained growth and innovation. Frank highlights the importance of integrating long-term strategic planning with daily operations through effective budgeting, stakeholder engagement, and management buy-in. By setting aside time to review and adjust strategies regularly, businesses can ensure they are meeting both current and future demands.
[24:25] - To foster growth and retain young talents who crave career progression, companies should offer a dynamic work environment where employees can explore various roles and responsibilities. Mapping their strengths and interests into different areas of business expansion allows businesses to create personalized growth paths. This enhances employees' skill sets across a broad spectrum and keeps them engaged and motivated.

Watch the full episode here:

Episode 253

In this episode of the Future of Field Service podcast, host Sarah Nicastro is joined by Hany Salah, Head of Services Sales at Schneider Electric, to dive into skills, approaches, and tactics in selling today’s service solutions. They also touch on storytelling, customization, and talent challenges.

Hany has over 23 years of experience, mostly in the service sector, and has been working at Schneider Electric since 2008, now leading the service sales team for North East Africa. Besides his corporate role, Hany has a parallel career in education and learning, serving as a certified instructor and consultant in project management, accredited by the Project Management Institute and the Egyptian Syndicate of Engineers.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and Google Podcasts.

Episode Highlights

[04:02] - Today's customer-centric sales landscape success lies in understanding and valuing the customer's journey, prioritizing their experience, and aligning our offerings to their specific needs and benefits. The key is to question and validate your assumptions about customer needs, engage deeply to understand their expectations and ensure every interaction adds value. Instead of focusing on what you offer, shift towards a consultative approach, customizing your services to address the unique challenges and desires of each customer.
[06:30] - Regarding the evolving service landscape, Hany has witnessed a transformative shift, expanding beyond traditional service roles to embrace a digital, insight-driven approach that fundamentally enhances the value proposition for customers. This change highlights the critical role of digital transformation in scaling service capabilities and enriching customer relationships through 24/7 connectivity and advanced data insights. At its core, service remains a people-centric business. However, the integration of digital tools and AI capabilities has multiplied its impact.
[13:32] - Embracing a holistic, customer-centric approach is essential in today's service delivery, moving beyond simple additions to deeply incorporating solutions across all service areas for a seamless customer experience. Personalization plays a key role in this transformation, highlighting the importance of understanding and segmenting customer personas to tailor services effectively. From addressing unique challenges faced by data center managers to meeting the expectations of facility managers, customizing your approach based on a deep understanding of each persona ensures that your services resonate with the specific needs and expectations of each customer segment.
[17:08] - Integrating storytelling with smart customization and personalization strategies allows sales professionals to create compelling value propositions that truly meet customers where they are. Keep in mind that this approach goes beyond simply presenting a product or service; it's about creating a narrative that resonates with the customer, incorporating real examples, success stories, and lessons learned to demonstrate value. Listening is the first critical step towards a customer-centric approach, ensuring that the sales narrative is more than a list of capabilities but a tailored story that reflects the customer's voice and priorities.

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