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Are You Overlooking the Importance and Impact of Neurodiversity at Work?

November 20, 2024 | 38 Mins Read

Are You Overlooking the Importance and Impact of Neurodiversity at Work?

Episode 292

In this episode of the Unscripted podcast, host Sarah Nicastro welcomes Tristan Lavender, Neurodiversity Speaker, Founder and Chair of the Philips Neurodiversity Network (Employee Resource Group), Senior Content Strategist, Writer, and Editor at Philips Communications Center of Excellence, for an open and honest conversation about navigating work life with a neurodivergence and why/how companies could benefit from giving this area of diversity more thought and action.

As a neurodiversity advocate and educator, Tristan combines personal experience with over 15 years of expertise as a communicator in leading global companies like Philips, where he founded the Philips Neurodiversity Network, a global Employee Resource Group (ERG) with over 1000 members, committed to creating an environment where every mind can thrive. Tristan's mission is to build a world where every mind is empowered to succeed by educating individuals and organizations on the transformative potential of neurodiversity.

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Episode Highlights:

Tristan - 00:00:00:

In these 16 years that I didn't show with anyone that I was autistic, none of my managers knew per se. They may have suspected that I was autistic, but there's no way of knowing for sure. And it's also something that you can't really ask as a manager, like, hey, I suspect that you're autistic. Is that the case? That's not something you can ask as a manager. So the best you could do, I think, in general, and there are a lot of nuances to this, but in general, I would say focus on what people need. So I think that starts with onboarding, but also just in your day-to-day interactions, what can you do as a manager to empower that person to be at their best in their daily work?

Sarah - 00:00:46:

Hello, welcome to the UNSCRIPTED podcast, where you'll find discussions on what matters most in service, leadership, and business transformation. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Let's jump in. Welcome to the Unscripted podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Very excited for today's guest and the topic that we're going to be talking about. We're going to be talking about the question I think every leader should be asking themselves, which is, are you overlooking the importance and impact of neurodiversity at work? So I'm thrilled to have with us today, Tristan Lavender, who is a neurodiversity speaker. He is also the founder and chair of the Philips Neurodiversity Network, which is an employee resource group. And he is a senior content strategist, writer, and editor for the Philips Communication Center of Excellence. So Tristan, welcome to the UNSCRIPTED podcast.

Tristan - 00:01:43:

Thank you, Sarah, for having me on.

Sarah - 00:01:44:

I'm very excited for today's chat. It's been in the works for a bit. We've been exchanging messages and comparing busy calendars. And here we finally are. So I found you on LinkedIn and started following you there. And I deeply admire the insight that your content provides and also the courage and effort that it takes to speak publicly about your journey and the things that you are trying to bring light to. So that's why I'm so, so happy to have you here. So your passion from around neurodiversity and bringing awareness to this comes from your own personal experience. And I'm sure there's plenty of listeners that don't know you yet and are meeting you for the first time. So if you could just start with anything you're comfortable sharing about your own story, your own journey, and how that brought you to the work that you do.

Tristan - 00:02:38:

I'm happy to. So growing up, if we go back in time, I always felt different from other kids, but I never really understood why. So I always had a hard time interacting with other kids, even in the playground. I was always the shy kid and I often used to hide behind trees when other kids were just having a good time. But I never really understood why I had such a hard time just being like other kids. And especially later in adolescence, that really led to a lot of mental health challenges, even depression and anxiety, because I just wanted to connect with others. I wanted to be like everyone else, but I was just not quite able to connect with others. And it actually took me until the age of 23 before I discovered why I'd always been struggling, because that's when I was diagnosed with autism.

Sarah - 00:03:29:

Mm-hmm.

Tristan - 00:03:30:

And that came as a huge shock for me at the time, to be honest, because that's something that I'd never considered before. Ironically, I just graduated in psychology and I started studying the subject, but it had just never occurred to me that I could be on the autism spectrum.

Sarah - 00:03:47:

Not to interrupt, but I also, my undergrad is in psychology and I remember very early in my studies, a professor saying, if you are here because you want to figure yourself out, that's not the right reason to be here.

Tristan - 00:03:59:

Nope.

Sarah - 00:04:01:

Even when you're studying different things, you're not doing so through the lens of reflecting on yourself necessarily, and you really maybe shouldn't be. So I don't think it was a miss. It was just, yes, but I understand the shock. Okay, so.

Tristan - 00:04:16:

Exactly. So things start, the pieces of the puzzle start falling into place when I received my diagnosis. But at the same time, it is something that I also had a very hard time processing because the more I started reading about autism, the more I was confronted with what I lack as a person. Like everything I read about autism was about deficits. So for that reason, it was a huge struggle for me. And I was always quite ashamed to share with others that I'm on the autism spectrum because I was just worried what other people may think of me, especially also in a professional context. So for that reason, it actually took me more than 16 years before I finally felt comfortable sharing this with another human being at work for the very first time in my life, 16 years after the initial diagnosis. So I think that journey shows you what a struggle it can be for autistic or neurodivergent people more broadly to come to terms with who they are and then also feel comfortable sharing that aspect of their identity with others.

Sarah - 00:05:17:

Yeah, and that can be very lonely, right? That 16 years is there's a big part of yourself that you're either hiding or you're not sure how to share. And that you spoke about when you were younger, the ties to mental health, feeling that you can't be yourself or you have to hide certain things that can cause things like depression to come up because it's very isolating.

Tristan - 00:05:40:

It's also tiring. And I think maybe a lot of people in the audience will also be able to relate to this in their own ways that in a professional context, we're, of course, always adapting in a sense to what's expected of us in a certain professional role. But especially for those who are under a divergence, that pressure to adapt, to conform, to be like others tends to be even stronger, which also just is very exhausting. It takes a lot of energy to constantly trying to be someone you're not in order to fit in.

Sarah - 00:06:11:

Right.

Tristan - 00:06:12:

That also just took a lot of energy from me all those years.

Sarah - 00:06:15:

Yeah. So, we talked before we started recording that I would likely start asking questions that we didn't talk about beforehand. So two things that we haven't spoke about that I'm curious about is when you were 23 and you got that diagnosis and you were processing all of that initially, what were you doing work-wise at the time? Like what environment were you working in?

Tristan - 00:06:40:

Yeah, so I just finished university, as I mentioned, and I was still, to be honest, not sure what my career would look like. So I was in a bit of a transition period. I took on an internship as a journalist initially because I'd always loved writing. So that's something that I considered as a career. But I wasn't quite sure yet at the time. And I will also say, in all honesty, that I really hit my low point around that time in terms of mental health at one point. I even wondered if I'd be able to have a career in the first place because I was even struggling just with my day-to-day life.

Sarah - 00:07:15:

Yeah.

Tristan - 00:07:15:

Which is hard to imagine in hindsight, but that's a shine. It was really a huge burn.

Sarah - 00:07:20:

Well, and that's one of the reasons I asked, I'll ask the second question before I comment, which is the 16 years that it took between learning that about yourself or not really learning it about yourself, being able to put a label to what you had felt, right? So having a diagnosis between then and 16 years later, getting to the point of sharing that for the first time. And I guess maybe we'll get into this in our outline, but I'm curious how much of that was... Your work, your internal work, and processing that, getting more comfortable with what this means in your life, and building the confidence to be able to share that versus 16 years of what I would like to imagine as is progress of living in a world that is more accepting of differences?

Tristan - 00:08:17:

I think it's a combination of both. I think the biggest change in mindset for me has been that, as I just described, when I initially got the diagnosis, I just viewed autism through the lens of deficits. But what I've learned to appreciate over the years is that being artistic also comes with certain strengths. And these strengths are unique to each individual. But throughout my career, and I've been lucky to have had a career, I also learned that there are specific qualities, such as being highly detail-oriented, being very focused in my work, that can actually help me add a lot of value also in collaboration with others. So I've learned to view autism in a more positive light. Even though it still comes with its challenges and struggles, which I don't want to downplay in any way. So I think part of it was the mindset, but I do recognize there were also what you shared about times are changing. I think in general, there's a wider societal acceptance of mental health challenges more broadly. And I think in our diversity, even though- So exactly the same as mental health is also one of the topics that is, I think, now... Yeah, more becoming a topic of conversation, also fueled by younger generations, I think, who feel more comfortable talking about it. So that has definitely also helped to make me feel more comfortable being open about being autistic with others as well.

Sarah - 00:09:42:

Yeah, and I think I had that thought pop into my mind, like... It's hard for me not to want to put myself in the minds of what you were going through at 23 and in the 16 years until you were able to feel comfortable sharing. And there's no way for us to cover all of that. And that's not what we're here to do. But without talking about years and specific timeframes, I would guess that a large part of it was your work. Because I think we're still, this topic is still not. As widely discussed or open as it needs to be. And that's why we're having this conversation today. So if we start working back in timeframes, it's less and less so, right? And so that's just a testament to your personal perseverance. But also, I love what you said about... So I've shared here before, but not everyone listens to every podcast. I have ADHD, which I did not learn until I was in my late 30s, actually. I also have CPTSD from childhood trauma, which brings about a number of different things. And... So there's elements of what you're saying of feeling different that I can identify with and also having to compensate for those things in a professional setting, feeling like if you're not going to be understood, you have to figure out how to do all of that work inside yourself to keep pace with what is expected. But I also love the point you made about the shift in perspective. And I think an element of acceptance, right? I think you can get into a space of why am I this way? This is hard, this is lonely, etc. Those things that you probably dealt with a lot when you went through that really hard period, and I'm sure at times since. But I love your point about not focusing on the deficiencies or the negatives or the why, but instead, figuring out how to shift your focus to what are the superpowers, right? And so for you, you mentioned being very detail-oriented, having an ability to really focus. But I also just want to say it's the work you're doing to bring light to this and to take what is a personal journey that can be very hard to articulate and putting words to it in a way that helps a lot of other people understand. And that... Is something that should make 23-year-old you very proud and is having a huge impact on the world. So that is a superpower as well.

Tristan - 00:12:14:

Yeah, thank you for that. If I can add to that, I also feel it really has a responsibility to now be more open about this topic, knowing that I'm also now in a relatively privileged position in the sense I work for a big company. I've been lucky to have a career. And I know that many autistic people are unemployed. I mean, that is just a hard fact. So I think there's also a sense of privilege, which then also comes with the feeling of responsibility. I think those who are in a position to speak up about this can hopefully also help. Ultimately break down barriers for others who are still struggling today. That is what I see as my personal mission.

Sarah - 00:12:54:

Yes, and that's why I thank you to everyone that's listening and to you, Tristan, for indulging me in a bit of a personal setup. But it's also why I... From a personal perspective, wanted to have you here. Because if I have any platform that's reaching any number of people that I can help bring light to topics that I think need that attention, I also feel an obligation to do that. So... Okay. Thank you for sharing. Thank you for letting me share a bit. And let's now shift gears to the part of the conversation that is about not the personal recognition of those strengths or superpowers, but the reason it's important for businesses to understand that different neuro divergencies. Aren't just a set of potential deficiencies in the workplace. They're also a set of strengths. So can you just talk about in the work you do, the speaking you do, your public experience, your interaction with other folks, what does neurodiversity mean for businesses? And what do we need to create awareness about there from the perspective of how do leaders and companies need to be thinking about why it's important to understand this better and be more accommodating?

Tristan - 00:14:13:

That's a great question, and that's something that I'm now working daily on in my role as a leader of our neurodiversity and resource group at Philips. I think it all starts with the understanding that we are all different. No two brains are the same, as I like to say, because there can be this perception that neurodiversity is a topic that is only relevant to a specific group of people. So people like me who are autistic or people like you who have ADHD. Well, in fact, neurodiversity is a much broader concept, which recognizes that we're all wired differently and that we all have our own unique strengths and challenges at work. But it is also true, as we discussed before, that neurodivergent people, people like you and me, who have brains that are wired differently from the majority, we have often more pronounced strengths or superpowers, as you call them yourself. But also certain challenges that we may face because we differ from the majority and the environments in which we operate are often designed for the majority. So that may create barriers for us also in the workplace. So I think it is important for employers to also take that balanced perspective and recognize that neurodivergent people can add a lot of value to your organization precisely because they think differently and because they bring unique strengths that others may not be able to offer. But the other side of that is that you then, as an employer, as a business, also need to create the environment. That is able to adapt to what these individuals need in order to bring their best selves to work. So for me, it's all about taking that balanced perspective. And what we also say at Philips, we are an innovation company. Innovation is very important to us. And that is always what we also use as a frame as an employee resource group when we talk about neurodiversity. In order to innovate as a company, you need people who think differently. You need different perspectives in a team, you need that healthy friction. So neurodiversity is also, I think, really essential for any team and for any organization. I think it will also become more important as we now have the rise of AI. Like it's relatively easy to automate standard thinking.

Sarah - 00:16:27:

Yeah.

Tristan - 00:16:28:

So we're going to need more of the new and original thinking. I think a lot of neurodivergent people can't bring that strength to work. So I think it's only going to be more important that employers embrace this.

Sarah - 00:16:41:

Yeah, I love that perspective. And I think it ties back to, we've had a number of conversations on this podcast about diversity in different... Areas. And our audience specifically, when we talk about the frontline workforce, it's very male-dominated, not incredibly diverse, and companies are wanting to work on that. And when we bring it back to the value of diversity, it always comes back to diversity of thought. It's not about meeting quotas or this or that. It's about bringing in all of these different benefits that gives a company in its interaction with its customers, in its ability to innovate and bring new ideas to light, etc. And so this is just another area of that conversation that I think is maybe, just based on what I've experienced, less evolved or mature than some of the other focuses on diversity. And so, but the benefit to an organization is very much the same as what we would talk about in creating diversity in a number of other ways. So I want to go through a couple of different points here and try and just dig into some specifics that I hope might be able to help folks. I guess the first would be if someone who's listening is working in an organization where the term neurodiversity is not in any of the materials, it's not discussed, it's not part of the culture, where do you start in ensuring that the topic becomes one that the organization knows is important, but also can start discussing a bit more openly?

Tristan - 00:18:24:

Yeah, that's a great question. And if I go back in time to the moment that I started our employee resource group at Philips, roughly two years ago, now together with a group of colleagues, we were also at that stage, I think, as an organization where I could literally not find the term neurodiversity anywhere, like on our company intranet or in any way. So we also really had to start from scratch. I think what has been extremely powerful for us as an employee research group, so what I would also like to offer as a suggestion to the audience, is that one way of making this topic really relatable for people is by initially focusing on sharing personal stories, like you and I are doing in this podcast conversation as well. Because it can be a bit of an abstract. When people start reading, start listening to personal stories, they will often find that they can actually relate to some of the struggles that others may be going through, even if they don't necessarily have the same label.

Sarah - 00:19:23:

Sure.

Tristan - 00:19:23:

So just to give you a concrete example, as an autistic person, I really struggle with noise sensitivity. That is something that, for example, an introverted colleague may just as well be able to relate to for other reasons, because a lot of introverted people also prefer more quiet environments. So I think as soon as you start openly sharing these stories, then that can help people relate, can help bring the topic to life in very human and relatable ways. And I think that is especially powerful if it comes from people in leadership positions. So that has also been a focus for us with the resource group from the start. How can we get people in senior positions to share their stories? Because that is what can create the psychological safety for others in your organization to start feeling more comfortable speaking about this topic as well. I think we really need these role models in senior leadership positions to make it easier for others to start talking about this as well. That is so important because I shared in my personal story that it took me 16 years to get to the point where I felt comfortable sharing my story. There's also plenty of research which shows that my story is definitely not an exception. So there was a study conducted by Birkbeck University of London last year, for example, which showed that 65% of neurodivergent individuals and organizations do not feel comfortable sharing their neurodivergence with their manager or their co-workers because they're afraid of it. What may happen, they're afraid of stigma, of discrimination, often from their own co-workers, from their managers. So I think that shows the importance of starting migrating that psychological safety and sharing personal stories is one great way to start doing that.

Sarah - 00:21:13:

Absolutely. Yeah, I'm a big believer in the power of storytelling. And somebody has to be brave enough to start, right? But it's hard if it's not happening. Once you can see these examples that are relatable, and to your point, we've had similar conversations with... When I think about some of the conversations we've had about improving diversity around bringing more women into certain roles or into certain things, it's the same example of when you have a CEO who is a father who says, hey, I have to leave early today to go pick my kids up from school. It's a very powerful example. It means a lot, right? So those things do have an impact and are very important. I also wanted to ask you about hiring. So you mentioned that, unfortunately, there's a number of neurodivergent folks that are not employed. And I'm sure that we have to think about the fact that. This is all a continuum, right? And so there's not only, and I think that's one of the things that makes neurodiversity challenging because it's... It can be hard to really feel like you're getting your arms around it because you're talking about what could be a whole bunch of different diagnoses. But we're also saying, just like you said, it's not really about the diagnosis. It's about what it means to the individual. So just like the example you shared about noise sensitivity, noise sensitivity could be a factor for people that have a number of different diagnoses. And so it can be, I think, hard to like pin down in that way. And there may be people who do struggle to the point that having a career like you or I do is not an option, right? But then there's a whole lot of people who... It could be a great option if... They saw it as one, and if the workplace understood some of the things we're talking about. So when it comes to... Job postings and recruiting and interviewing. I know this also could be its own conversation and we don't have time to get into everything I'm sure you could share, but just anything high level for people to reflect on in our hiring practices inclusive. Are we leaving people out because we're not being aware of these things?

Tristan - 00:23:42:

Yeah, this is a great question because I think what we just discussed was about how do we break the stigma, how to get the conversation going, and how do we create awareness for the topic. But I think even though that is important for a step, it's not enough. Ultimately, it's also about building skills, building competencies. And hiring practices, I think, are an important area with that. So maybe just to give you a personal example to start answering your question. When I was younger, I applied for a role. This was in my early twenties. This was even before my diagnosis, so I wasn't even aware that I was autistic yet. I didn't make a lot of eye contacts with the recruiter in this conversation. That is something that a lot of autistic people struggle with. I still struggle with that today. Maintaining eye contact with another person is tiring for me. I've trained myself to do it when it's needed, but it doesn't come natural to me. So what happened in that job interview is that I was ultimately rejected. And one of the reasons that the recruiter gave afterwards was the lack of eye contact. And I think this is, I'm giving you this as a practical example, because even though there were other valid reasons why I may not have been the best fit for that job. I think this is an example of where a narrative version person may be judged or evaluated on a behavioral aspect that is not necessarily relevant to the job. But because there can be this unconscious expectation or bias that... If someone doesn't make eye contact in a conversation, they may be less trustworthy or less capable. That can easily lead to a candidate being rejected. So I'm giving you this as an example because we're also addressing it at this practical level, for example, at Philips, where ERG has also been hosting sessions for our recruiters, where we bring up these examples to make our recruiters more aware, of type of situation that I just mentioned.

Sarah - 00:25:42:

Yeah.

Tristan - 00:25:44:

Second example could be that a lot of neurodivergent people may experience heightened anxiety in a job interview, often because it has been such a huge struggle for them to get a job, or they may have had negative or even traumatic experiences in different aspects of their lives. So the job interview may even be a bigger deal for them than for others. And as an autistic person, for example, I naturally already struggle to respond on the spot to questions. Add that anxiety of a job interview on top of that, and that might really hamper me in my performance during a job interview. So here, for example, a very practical suggestion that we often offer, and that you also see more and more organizations now applying their hiring practices, is that they share interview questions in advance, because that allows an order of people and other candidates to come better prepared, and also to lessen the anxiety, because you take away that anxiety of, okay, what questions are they going to ask me? How do I respond in the moment? So that's another practical example, I think, where you can really change your process to lower the barrier for many neurodivergent people.

Sarah - 00:27:02:

Yeah, no, that's a really good example. And I want to also talk about being more inclusive in hiring is one thing for folks to consider. And again, there's a lot of other input and advice out there that we could get into on that topic specifically.

Tristan - 00:27:19:

No, I've had these questions to surface. So these are just two practical examples.

Sarah - 00:27:22:

Right, right, right, right.

Tristan - 00:27:23:

Many more considerations.

Sarah - 00:27:24:

Yeah, and maybe you'd be willing to come back at some point and we could talk in more detail about some of these areas. But, you know, this is the first time we're talking about this topic here. So I did want to kind of go through some of the high points, if you will. And so that doesn't lend itself to a lot of depth on everyone or we would be here for a few hours. But so what I'm also curious about are your thoughts on. Really what comes after, right? So there's a lot of different areas to this too that we could talk about just in terms of overall company culture and things like that. But I think what I really want to focus on is the relationship with a... Manager or leader and what leaders need to be thinking about or considering in their approach and their styles and what adaptations or accommodations might be helpful if they want to be more considerate and inclusive of neurodiverse teams? What are your thoughts on that?

Tristan - 00:28:28:

Yeah, I think that's another very important question because indeed you can have a very neuro-inclusive hiring process, but if you then end up working with a manager who doesn't really know how to navigate your brain and your working style, then that could still lead to a very poor working experience, for both.

Sarah - 00:28:47:

Yeah.

Tristan - 00:28:48:

So I think you already touched on an important point earlier by saying that it's not necessarily about the label or the diagnosis. It's about what people need. I think that is a really critical point because... Again, if I take myself as an example, not because I like talking about myself, but just to make it really tangible for people. In these 16 years that I didn't share with anyone that I was autistic, none of my managers knew per se. They may have suspected that I was autistic, but there's no way of knowing for sure. And it's also something that you can't really ask as a manager, like, hey, I suspect that you're autistic. Is that the case? That's not something you can ask as a manager. So the best you could do, I think, in general. And there are a lot of nuances to this, but in general, I would say focus on what people need. So I think that starts with onboarding, but also just in your day-to-day interactions. What can you do as a manager to empower that person to be at their best in their daily work? To make that a bit less abstract. What, for example, has really helped me in my career with the managers that I've had is that... I mentioned earlier that I'm not very good at responding on the spot often, especially when I'm in large groups. I really experience anxiety. Anxiety my mind needs more time to process information. So what- My current manager, for example, also does really well, is that she, always, where possible, share us. Information with me ahead of meetings, workshops, so that I can prepare at my own pace, in my own space, at my own time. That is so helpful for me. And yeah, that is an adaptation, if you will, that doesn't cost her a lot of additional time and energy. And it also ends up benefiting my colleagues who are not autistic, because in general, yeah, it's good meeting practice anyway to share an agenda rather than three weeks, that's essential. But she does really make that mindful effort also to help me in that way, which has been really helpful. But the fact that I'm autistic is not necessarily super relevant there. It's more the need, hey, I need information in advance. Do you really think things should come prepared? Someone's introverted may benefit from that as well.

Sarah - 00:31:14:

Sure.

Tristan - 00:31:16:

So just as one example of, I think, how focusing on needs can be really helpful in creating the conditions where someone can bring their strengths to work. But then also being mindful, I think, that people, neurodivergent people, may have certain areas that don't come naturally to them, where they're never going to be able to excel. And where if you expect them to be like others, that comes at a real cost. Just to give you one example, as an autistic person, I may be really tired at the end of a team day because the constant social interaction is just really draining for me. So... If I'm then expected to attend a four-hour team dinner as well, I may not be able to function the next day. I may literally need another day to recover before they can work for me again. So then also having the understanding from a manager and the flexibility to say like, hey, you're very welcome to join team dinner, but if you want to go home... Please go home because that is just who you are. That is, you need that recovery time to be at your best the next day. And that is fine.

Sarah - 00:32:25:

Or perhaps, I don't know your thoughts on this, but another option could be, depending on the environment that you're working in or what the role is, we really feel that... This team bonding is important. So would you attend and take tomorrow to recharge, right? I mean, exactly.

Tristan - 00:32:45:

So there's no fixed recipe, but it's having that open conversation.

Sarah - 00:32:49:

Yeah, and it goes back to making people feel comfortable to articulate what it is they need without fear of repercussion, whether that's discrimination or it's just being perceived in a certain way or it's not being protected to the group. The manager getting to that dinner and saying, someone saying, well, where's Tristan? He didn't want to come. Right. Instead of responding that way, being able to advocate for you in those situations in a way that helps the team understand. Right. And again, where you are in your career today and because of your effort to speak out. People know this about you now, right? Like people in Phillips, like you lead the resource group. But when we think about people who are maybe on day one of after that 16 year pause of not knowing how to say something and in a role that people don't know this, but you need leaders who can not only understand, but support and advocate for you in a way that isn't sharing too much, but like that you need people that understand and can support you not only directly, but in the team setting as well.

Tristan - 00:34:04:

Absolutely, yes.

Sarah - 00:34:05:

Yeah.

Tristan - 00:34:05:

I think the notion of viewing this also through a team lens is also important. If I can give one more practical example that we discussed in a leadership session yesterday at Phillips also is, do we keep cameras on or off during a virtual meeting? This is something that audience members also want to be able to relate to from their experience. Different people, they're also different needs and preferences. Because some people may find it tiring to be on camera all day long if they have back-to-back virtual meetings. So they may prefer to switch off their camera at a certain point, but then there may be others who really rely on the visual and the emotional cues that are visible and they may really struggle to follow a conversation or stay engaged when they do not see another person. So I think it's also worth discussing in a team context, what are each person's needs and preferences? How can we meet each other halfway where needed? And having that shared understanding is I think also really critical where managers also have an important role to play in facilitating these conversations, inviting people to share what they need to be at their best. That is, I think, also pretty critical.

Sarah - 00:35:10:

Yeah, I've never said this out loud, but I always have camera on because with ADHD, for me, if I don't, I will start multitasking and I won't be fully engaged. I won't fully listen, actively listen and retain what's said. And I know that about myself, but that's my own thing. To your point, it's about understanding each individual's needs and also figuring out where do we need to come to the middle for the benefit of one person or a couple people can't always be the one making concessions, right? In a team setting, the leader needs to be able to balance the needs of everyone. There was a video that I came across quite a while ago, and I believe it was on TikTok, and I have since deleted TikTok, and I'm not using that anymore. And I wish I could find it because it was a leader speaking about their approach to onboarding new employees. And I think there was six or so questions that they asked as they brought a new member onto their team. They were so good, but they were essentially about understanding these individual needs and preferences in a way that set the stage from the very beginning about how that leader... Could best serve them and accommodate them. It was so good. I'm going to maybe see if I can find it or something similar just to give... Because we talk about this in a lot of other contexts, too, but that one-on-one relationship with your leader is incredibly important, particularly when the organization you're a part of might not be where you would like it to be on this topic, right? So oftentimes... That positive change or that acceptance or that feeling of being accepted and belonging can start with that relationship. And ultimately, I believe those relationships can model what needs to be done by other leaders and across the business. But for leaders that want to understand this better and understand their employees better and be more accommodating, there are some really specific actions that you can take that aren't... Too much extra work that can make a tremendous difference.

Tristan - 00:37:32:

Exactly. And I know that the topic can sometimes also come with anxiety. We just understand that, from people leaders, from managers because what if I get it wrong? Especially because being neurodivergent is in many cases a medical condition, so that can also come with privacy considerations. So what if I get it wrong? But that would also encourage maybe leaders who are listening just to not be fearful of getting it wrong. And as long as you're just open, curious, willing to engage in that conversation with the person, they can also educate you on certain things that may be new to you. And you can figure things out together just in open, trusted dialogue.

Sarah - 00:38:12:

So the other thing I wanted to talk about is the work that you're doing with the Phillips Neurodiversity Network. So the employee resource group. So you founded that group, lead that group. I know we talked about the fact that it has over a thousand members and this development of community around, you know. I don't want to just say topics like this. For some people, it might be a topic. It might be something they want to understand better. They want to provide allyship around. And for some people, it's more than a topic. It's their lives, right? So can you just share a bit about your journey creating that group and the impact that building something like that can have on the employees and on the company?

Tristan - 00:38:57:

Yeah, this could be a whole conversation in itself, so I'll try to keep it short. I think in a nutshell, our purpose has always been twofold. So on the one hand, as I mentioned, when I started this together with colleagues, the topic was to never publicly discuss at all in the company. So we wanted to start by creating a safe space, a community where people can come together to start exchanging experiences, to start feeling more comfortable, to be open about their differences, whether that is because people are neurodivergent or because they may have a neurodivergent family member or relative, or they just simply want to be better allies. So we opened that up to everyone. So creating that community was a big focus, but then a second pillar of our approach has always been that we also really want to amplify the voice of our community to help inform your inclusive policies and practices. So just to give you a very practical example of that. Like in any large organization, neurodivergent people may struggle with certain aspects of office design because, for example, they may not be able to concentrate easily because of the noise or because of light sensitivity. So what we're also doing with our community is channeling that feedback on behalf of our communities, for example, colleagues in real estate or senior leaders who are able to influence office design so that we can also really make changes to the work environment that can ultimately benefit neurodivergent colleagues and often end up benefiting everyone as well. Really driving that change in the organization beyond just having the community has always been a second ambition of us as well. And I think that has worked out really well. I mean, we still have a long way to go, but I think we now have a community where people feel more comfortable having these conversations, and at least with each other, maybe not always yet with their managers, but at least with each other. And I just see a lot of interest from senior leaders, from line managers who want to learn more about this topic or really embracing that to work in collaboration with them to ultimately create these more welcoming and inclusive environments.

Sarah - 00:41:08:

Yeah. I mean, it's incredible just that it's grown to have so many people involved and to think about the impact that's having on them as individuals to feel, you know, that sense of inclusivity and acceptance that thinking back to your early feelings around this, you would have only hoped would exist, right? So that's great. But also to your point, using that as a source of education and information and to prompt action within the business of here's what this means, here's what this means people need, here's how acting upon this can help, employees be more productive, more comfortable, more satisfied in their roles. It's phenomenal work. I also wanted to ask just quickly about the work you do speaking. So we didn't talk about that or have that on the outline, but you have your quote day job at Philips on the content side. You have this role leading and running the employee resource group, but you also do public speaking on this topic as well. How did that sort of come to bear? I have to imagine it's really pushing yourself out of your comfort zone.

Tristan - 00:42:27:

Here's the funny thing, though. I really enjoy public speaking, which people often don't expect.

Sarah - 00:42:32:

Okay.

Tristan - 00:42:33:

Because it's not something that people typically associate with someone who's autistic. And I'm also very introverted. But there's this beautiful quote. And I think it is from Nietzsche, but I'm not sure. But it is sort of in the spirit of if you're clear on your why, then you will find the how. You'll make the how work. And I think that has really been my mindset in recent years. I have a very... I feel a very strong sense of purpose. And as I said earlier, I also have a sense of responsibility towards our community because of my relatively privileged position. Any way in which I can help ultimately have that positive impact on our community is something that I've been very keen to explore and embrace in the past few years. And public speaking, I think it's also a wonderful platform to reach the wider audience beyond setups, but also to learn from people's questions and their struggles and we're all figuring this out together. So I think it is also very valuable and something that I really enjoy.

Sarah - 00:43:36:

Yeah, I mean, again, it's a great way for you to get a sense of what does this look like in other companies or for other groups of employees. But then you're also able to share your personal journey, but the work you're doing with the Neurodiversity Network as a way to inspire other companies to take more action. And ultimately, this is what is helping make the experience for today's 23-year-old recently diagnosed neurodivergent. Young adult not have to maybe feel the same depths of struggle as you did. So, okay, I want to ask you a two-part question. On the outline, it was just one, but I want to change it to two, if that's okay. So the question was listed as, what's one myth or misperception around this topic that you'd like to quell? And if you're comfortable with it, because you're openly sharing, I'd like to ask that question. As I wrote it, I was thinking about neurodiversity as a topic. So that would be one, but... If you're comfortable with it, I also would like you to speak from your experience around someone who is openly has autism. So from both of those perspectives, I think it could be helpful to hear your thoughts.

Tristan - 00:44:59:

Yeah, I think a huge misconception around autism, but any kind of neurodivergence, is that once you know a label of the person, which is not all the case. Because when people hear autism, and this is human, I mean, I'm guilty of this myself as well when I hear a certain label. But when people hear autism, they may have a certain mental image of that picture with certain traits. And that may not accurately reflect every autistic individual because every autistic individual is unique. So that's also the disclaimer that I want to add to everything that I share. What I shared is my story. But another autistic person will have their own strengths, their own challenges. Some of the misconceptions that you see around autism specifically are, for example, that autistic people don't have empathy. That we're just these cold, logical creatures. And I understand where that stereotype comes from because a lot of autistic people, including myself, may struggle to express emotion in the moment. But that's not because we're not feeling emotion. That's because we struggle to express it in the moment. There may be simply also just a delay in the expression of the emotion. It may only hit me two days later what I really feel about something.

Sarah - 00:46:18:

Yeah.

Tristan - 00:46:19:

So there are a lot of complexities there that may create the impression that someone doesn't feel anything or lacks empathy, but that is actually often. Not at all the case. A lot of autistic people are actually hypersensitive also to other people's emotions. I could give you many more examples, but I think the takeaway is don't rely on the label. Just view every individual, including neurodivergent individuals, as unique human beings. Also because they're not just autistic or ADHD or dyslexic. There are so many other elements to their identity that also make who they are. And that's something for another day. But neurodiversity intersects with gender, race. There's so many different aspects. So you cannot really simplify it and say, okay, this is a typical autistic person. This is a typical person with ADHD. We're all very different.

Sarah - 00:47:16:

Yeah. It's interesting when you were saying that, I was just thinking my older son, he's nine years old. He was diagnosed with type one diabetes when he was three. And I learned, well, I mean, so much through that process. But it was said to me very early on that it's better to say he has type one diabetes than he is diabetic because it isn't who he is. It's a part of who he is, right? And again, that gets into terminology and distinction that matters to some people and not others. And going back to your point about like individuals fearing they get it wrong and therefore avoiding the topic, I would never want to say that. But I do think it's important to remember you don't know what you don't know. And everyone is a lot of characteristics and traits and things and no one label could ever accurately define a human being. So yeah, very good. So I just wanted to also ask, you have done a lot of work yourself. You also do public speaking and are able to interact with different organizations that way. Other than the example you have created yourself with Philips and the Neurodiversity Network, are there any other great examples that come to mind of good work that companies or organizations are doing around this topic that people could check out if they want to learn more?

Tristan - 00:48:41:

It's a great question. I'm not going to mention any specific companies. I do speak with a lot of my peers also at other companies, and maybe it's helpful if I sort of highlight what I see as a success factor across organizations that I speak with, and which I also recognize from my own experience at Philips, which is that I think ultimately for neurodiversity to really become embedded as part of an organizational culture, you need to have close collaboration between, on the one hand, an employee resource group, which can be a strong driving force, and I've seen that at Philips as well, but that always needs to happen in collaboration with HR and with senior leadership, because there's also a risk that, and I try to remind myself of this every day as well, that ultimately it shouldn't entirely rest on the shoulders of the ERG to become a more neurointensive organization. So you want your work to become embedded ultimately in the organization, in the culture, in the policies and practices. And for that, you need to work in collaboration with HR. You need to work in collaboration and leadership. That is very much also the mindset that we bring to our work at Philips. And that is, I think, also what I see really as a success factor in what I'm hearing from my peers at other companies, that collaboration is so essential. So that's what I just want to offer as one.

Sarah - 00:50:08:

I think that's a very good point. And I think in other areas of diversity as well, we have to remember the onus cannot be on the diverse group to do all of the education, to drive all of the change. It's not fair. But also to your point, you're only ultimately going to gain traction when it's embedded into the organization and it's a shared mission. So that's a really good point. So I want to make sure, and we can link your LinkedIn profile in the show notes, because as I mentioned in the introduction, you do a phenomenal job of sharing about so many different aspects of this topic on your page. And I've learned a lot. I know others could as well. I just also wanted to ask, other than folks having the opportunity to learn more from the writing that you're doing, are there any other resources that you would point people to who are listening to this and thinking, I need to educate myself better or I want to hear other people's stories? Are there any thought leaders, if you will, or educational resources that you would recommend?

Tristan - 00:51:16:

Yes, absolutely. So I'm from a pre-TikTok generation. So I'm not as well-versed in that domain. I focus most of my social media efforts on LinkedIn. I'm really an avid book reader, and there are two books that I would offer as reading recommendations. One is by Ed Thompson, which is called A Hidden Force, which I think offers a fantastic introduction to neurodiversity as a concept, but also from a work-related perspective. So I think it offers a great introduction to the topic, really covers on a lot of the topics that we also covered in this conversation, including hiring, onboarding, leadership, et cetera. So that's one. And the other book that I really enjoy is The Canary Code by Ludmila Praslova. You already mentioned also her name when we had a chat before we started the interview. What I also really like about her perspective is that she brings in the intersectionality elements of neurodiversity not existing in isolation, but intersectionality gender, with race, with cultural background, et cetera. And I think she does a great job of also highlighting that in a very personal way by highlighting personal stories from people from many different walks of life. So these will be two books that I would recommend as a starting point. There are many more, but these are the two that I would recommend to start with.

Sarah - 00:52:33:

I appreciate that. And I will link those as well. We did chat about Ludmila before we started recording, and I think I found her through following you. And I mentioned to you and failed to say in the introduction, she wrote an article not too long ago for Forbes about sort of some of the do's and don'ts around terminology around this. And again, she says in the conclusion of that article, it is important to remember that everyone makes missteps. Everyone can get it wrong at times, and that's okay. The expectation doesn't need to be perfection. But also for someone who is new to this topic or wants to understand better, it is a helpful article. So I will also share that as well. And Tristan, just want to say thank you so much for spending some time with me and our audience today and for sharing your journey and the work you've done to bring more awareness to this topic.

Tristan - 00:53:26:

Thank you so much, Sarah. I hope it was helpful. And the work continues.

Sarah - 00:53:30:

Absolutely. Yes, I will continue following and everyone else should as well. So thank you. You can find more by visiting the home of the UNSCRIPTED podcast at futureoffieldserviceref.ifs.com. The podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more at ifs.com. As always, thank you for listening.

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Episode 291

In a session recorded live at IFS Unleashed, Steven Van Eyck, Center of Excellence Lead for Field Service at Proximus, joins Sarah Nicastro to discuss how to define “excellence” in the arena of field service today and what Proximus is focused on in creating it.

Steven is leading a Center of Excellence that caters to the Field Service Management activities for Proximus' Customer Operations Business Unit. The Center serves as the primary link between the operational field teams, the Proximus IT department, and IFS. Steven joined Proximus in 2003 as a Developer.

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Episode Highlights:

Steven - 00:00:00: I think there are three elements in that. The most obvious one being delivering the best possible service at the right time, at the right value for your customer. Second element for me is trying to find that sweet spot between customer's expectation and operational cost. And the third one, I think, is having a really agile model to keep up with all those changes that are happening in that industry, which is fast moving, rapidly changing, constantly evolving.

Sarah - 00:00:41: All right. So welcome to the UNSCRIPTED Podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro, and we are here at Future of Field Service Live at IFS Unleashed in Orlando. I'm excited to be here today with Steven Van Eyck, Center of Excellence Lead for Field Service at Proximus. And we're going to be talking about the facets of field service excellence at Proximus. So, Steven, welcome to the podcast.

Steven - 00:01:21: Thank you. Good to be here.

Sarah - 00:01:23: Thanks for hanging out with me for a bit while you're in Orlando. So we're going to talk through a number of things today related to this topic, how we define what field service excellence is, the different areas we need to examine when we are working towards field service excellence and much more. But before we get into that, can you just tell everyone a little bit more about yourself, your role, what the company does and anything else you want to share?

Steven - 00:01:50: Okay. So I'm Steven, I'm 44, from Belgium. Been with Proximus for only four years now, which is quite a while. I have two kids, I hope. Love sports, love field service, obviously. Otherwise I wouldn't be in that branch. For those of you that don't know Proximus, Proximus is a Belgian telecommunication company. We do about everything that Telco is doing for B2B, B2C, B2B2X. We build our network, mobile and fix. We deliver services to the customer, on-site remote services. And my role in all of this is trying to understand how we should be doing field service, how we want to be doing field service, how we are actually doing field service, and how our tooling, our systems, our technology should best support those field service activities in a nutshell.

Sarah - 00:02:49: In a nutshell. In a nutshell. All right. So we're talking about field service excellence. Let's start with a really important question, which is how do you define that?

Steven - 00:02:59: Okay. Well, I think there's three elements in that. The most obvious one being delivering the best possible service at the right time, at the right value for your customer. Second element for me is trying to find that sweet spot between customer's expectation and operational cost. And the third one, I think, is having a really agile model to keep up with all those changes that are happening in that industry, which is fast moving, rapidly changing, constantly evolving. I would see those three elements really as a field service excellence or excellence.

Sarah - 00:03:41: Yeah. Okay. So with... Those three things in mind, how does Proxmos determine What focus is needed at any given time to attain and maintain excellence in those areas?

Steven - 00:03:56: Okay. So obviously what we have is our strategic goals, where we want to go to, what we want to achieve. We have our objectives, we have our vision, we have our targets, if you will. And these kind of define the overall strategy, what we want to focus on. At the same time, we know what our customers are expecting from us. And in that combination is trying to identify the short and midterm actions that we need to do in order to achieve excellence. It's a continuous conversation. I think this is not real. This is everybody's kind of day and hoping to find the things we need to improve on the short and the midterm.

Sarah - 00:04:36: So bonus question. Short and midterm. What about long term?

Steven - 00:04:41: Yeah. Long term, we have about a five-year target that we always know. Long term is always about... Where do you want to go to as a company? What do you want to achieve? For us, for example, one of our objectives is to become or having to have the best network, obviously the fastest network in Belgium, both fixed and mobile. And from there, we have like a clear strategy that we want to connect every household in Belgium to the fiber network. This means constructing a network, making sure it's deployed, making sure we have the necessary resources to build that network, to connect all those houses, to convince customers to move from the old network to the fiber network, and dealing also with challenges like... Competition, we see our competition also building networks in the same areas, which is not always that optimal. If you think about it, if you have multiple networks in the same area, you're basically overbuilding. So it's also trying to find strategies that allow us to have the best network in place for Belgium without spending a fortune in building that.

Sarah - 00:06:01: Yeah.

Steven - 00:06:02: All whilst, making sure that we have our operations under control because we cannot just focus on building that one network. We have our current assets also that we need to maintain and our current customers that we need to maintain. So that long term, yes. And at the same time, making sure our existing, our business continuity is there in place.

Sarah - 00:06:23: Yeah. Is it, would it be fair for me to, I guess, summarize in thinking that within the center of excellence, to me, it would make sense that your focus would be short and midterm? Because you're working to ensure that excellence and that focus on the strategy versus really looking to what's next. Like you're going where the company is going next once that's incorporated into that up to five-year timeline.

Steven - 00:06:53: Yeah.

Sarah - 00:06:53: Does that make sense what I'm saying?

Steven - 00:06:55: It does. And maybe... I think kind of explain what my team is doing.

Sarah - 00:07:01: Yeah.

Steven - 00:07:01: What our role is in the company. I already told you that we are trying to understand how we should be doing field service, how we are actually doing. But what I didn't say is where are we positioned in the organization? We are kind of a team between the actual operational teams doing the actual work on the field. Between our internal project teams, our delivery teams, and also kind of, if you will, the outside world. What we are always trying to do is to best support those stakeholders, if I may call them like that. The operational teams will also come to me with their short-term day-to-day challenges. They will say, we want to be better at this kind of activity. And they will look to me to say, how can you help me solve this problem? But at the same time, We have so many projects ongoing that are on the mid-long term that often will... Change or improve or simplify our business processes. Without always having the knowledge of what will this mean or how will this create collateral damage maybe somewhere else. And this is where we are as kind of advisors.

Sarah - 00:08:22: Yeah.

Steven - 00:08:22: And say, be careful because if you touch this part of the process, you will hit something else over there. And when we finally have found the process we want to change or want to implement, it's making sure we get those things implemented and that it's my team interacting with the IT teams to make the necessary changes to the systems if necessary and making sure our operational teams have what they know to do their job.

Sarah - 00:08:48: Yeah.

Steven - 00:08:49: So we are really in between those.

Sarah - 00:08:52: Yeah. And this position you're in between the business and IT, right? This is sort of like... A long history relationship between the two, who owns the power, who makes the decisions, who knows best what the company needs, et cetera, et cetera. So I can understand the value of having a function like the Center of Excellence that... Sits in between those and is responsible for... Not only in some ways mediating, but also really determining what is the best, considering everyone's needs. And like you said, the context of what's going on in the rest of the business. So. What would you say in your situation, you're kind of serving as the function to be that bridge? In a lot of organizations, they're trying to figure out what that relationship should look like between the two functions. And I guess... Whichever model you're using, like, do you have thoughts or advice on what makes that working relationship a more positive one? Or what are the big challenges to avoid to kind of eliminate that friction that I think... You hear about and has existed for a long time.

Steven - 00:10:04: I sometimes joke to my teams and my internal stakeholders saying that we are always between a rock and a hard place. Because to the operational teams, we are often too theoretic. Because we approach the problem from a process theoretical point of view, but we are not actually operational people. So they will say, what do you really know about field service, right? And linked to that challenge, we will sometimes be presented with a solution rather than a requirement. Or a problem state. Operational teams will come to me and say, this is my problem. This is what I want as a solution.

Sarah - 00:10:42: Yeah.

Steven - 00:10:43: So the first thing. We will always try to do. Is to understand the underlying need. So we won't give. Directly into that solution proposal, we will always ask, why do you want this? What is your underlying requirement? What do you really want to solve? What is actually your problem? So we can have that conversation and try to flush out the actual business requirement. From there, we can take it to a potential solution. We were talking before about the complexity in all of this. And we also are facing that complexity where we always want the solution for every type of scenario. We hardly ever want to say no to anything. This means that... In terms of finding standard solutions or generic solutions, it's often a challenge because not everything fits with one generic approach. You always will get exceptions or you always will get variations or deviations on your ideal process. To serve that one particular case that only happens from every now and then. So this is one challenge I'm constantly facing that discussion with our operational teams. Always trying to find the best way of solving a problem without necessarily going to a new solution. And towards the IT teams, it's kind of the same. We are helping our business teams trying to figure out solutions to their needs without necessarily going to new stuff or new developments or customizations, if I can use that word. I have a lot of discussions also with my IT colleagues, trying to find the best way to solve or to turn the requirements around into workable solutions. And we need to be there always to inject that business context and explain to them why we need to do certain ways. And then to take that solution back to our operational. So we always kind of like in between these two worlds. And it is interesting and challenging at the same time.

Sarah - 00:12:56: Yeah. Yeah. It sounds like a top spot to be in sometimes.

Steven - 00:13:00: I would say it's an interesting spot to be in.

Sarah - 00:13:02: Yeah.

Steven - 00:13:02: A very dynamic spot to be in.

Sarah - 00:13:04: Yeah.

Steven - 00:13:04: It's challenging and interesting. The skills, I think, that you need to be in that position is not only hard skills that you need, you also need decent soft skills to be able to deal with that ambiguity, to flush out that conversation. And also often... Go into dialogue and say, often for the first time, no to the initial proposal and really engage in that conversation. So dealing with ambiguity is really a must in our case.

Sarah - 00:13:33: But I think to your point, one of the things you said that I took note of is seeking first to understand, right? So I think when you do that, it earns you the right then to push back, right? If you, I think... Being in the position you're in, you would have a much harder time if you weren't genuinely looking to understand the root need first, and then saying maybe no to the initial suggestion. Even if you already know that initial suggestion is not ultimately what's going to work. That idea of just shutting someone down before hearing them out and fully understanding what it is that they need. I mean, that is a very important communication skill, right, in this whole thing. So you mentioned. That obviously technology plays a huge role in this. Ongoing continuum of field service excellence, right? But you also mentioned understanding in each given situation if there really is a need or a requirement for something new or if there is an existing solution that can be leveraged in some way to solve that problem or meet that need. How do you determine that? And then I would also imagine that at any given time, there's different priorities, different needs, different issues at play. So how do you prioritize? The investment.

Steven - 00:14:59: Time is always the number one challenge, especially when you're dealing with the operational teams. They want the solution right here, right now. They don't want to wait for next month or next three months. They want something now. So I think if you have the possibility to leverage something existing, you should. They will always be happy. It might also be that the early suggestion is a good one and it can just rapidly go to an implementation. So that's the thing. Like if there is nothing that can be leveraged to fulfill the request that we have to go to something new, the prioritization aspect is really important because there will always be more requests than there are resources to fulfill those requests. So what works for me is really to understand the company's priorities. Where do we want to land in the end?

Sarah - 00:15:53: Right.

Steven - 00:15:54: And if I can relate that request to one of those objectives or key priority, it will give me more possibility to go and find a sponsor or somebody with resources to fulfill that need.

Sarah - 00:16:08: Yeah. And that's also understanding those priorities then is also where the long-term in addition to the short-term and the mid-term comes into play, right? Because you want to be able to keep that in mind.

Steven - 00:16:17: Exactly. And what I find very positive about Proximus is that We have a very transparent way of communicating those objectives and those key results to actually all the employees. Every three months, there is a big info session that's done to make sure that everybody is kind of aligned to what we are hoping to achieve in five years from now, in one year from now, three months from now. So we can use that in our day-to-day sessions. It is a good tool to have. It's not always... The answer my internal stakeholder is hoping to get, especially when there is a note coming from the guys.

Sarah - 00:16:57: I have to give you credit because you remembered the second question and you just went right into it. So it was great. So we talked a little bit about the technology piece. I want to talk about process optimization. Yeah. Right. And how that factors into the quest for field service excellence. Yeah. So how do you look at that? How often do you look at that? How do you determine maybe when someone's coming to you with a problem? Okay, well. Is this problem because we need a new system or is it because the process is no longer effective for the way the business has changed, et cetera?

Steven - 00:17:33: My point of view and point of view shared by many of my colleagues, but not all, I have to be transparent in that, is that process documentation is... Important. I would say even very important. And as Proxmos, we are sometimes very tool oriented. We have a problem, we need a solution, it's a tool and that will get the problem solved. And for every scenario, there is some solution we can put in place. What we have seen as a result of that is that we have a standard process and a lot of deviations and variations on that standard process. Which is understandable if you have a broad business and a fast moving business, you get those. But it's equally important to have those on file. So you can always find ways to simplify and to go to that standardization of processes. Too many deviations and too many variations is ultimately not good, but there's great complexity in your overall company. So we are putting in quite some time. Documenting the processes. It helps to understand how we are supposed to be doing field service in my case. We can leverage also technology like process mining to actually see how it is really happening.

Sarah - 00:19:00: Right.

Steven - 00:19:01: To from there flush out the deviations and the variations.

Sarah - 00:19:04: Mm-hmm.

Steven - 00:19:05: And this will allow us to start building actions to... Those deviations out and move more to standardization.

Sarah - 00:19:13: Yeah.

Steven - 00:19:13: So it's really important to have that. It creates a knowledge base also that we can use in a lot of projects.

Sarah - 00:19:21: Yeah.

Steven - 00:19:22: Knowledge is often in the heads of people. Not everybody is always available to help a project. So having those informations on record, on file really helps to... Deal with a lot of stuff at the same time.

Sarah - 00:19:38: Yeah. I think it's interesting thinking about process optimization, like to question ourselves on how often are we reflecting on that? And is it often enough given the dynamic landscape of service that we are in today, right? Because I think historically, let's just say excellence, which is always going to be subjective to some degree, right? It was... A pretty consistent formula in service, right? So even if you weren't necessarily hitting the target and achieving it, for the most part, knew what needed to be done and you could kind of pinpoint what needed to change to get there. I think today with changing customer expectations, the rapidly evolving pace and increasing sophistication in technology, the ability within technology to be more agile in how you change what service delivery looks like or what the customer value proposition is or any number of things, right? I just think it's something we need to be thinking about in terms of. Making sure that we're doing that reflection process enough, often enough to make sure that we're not trying to hold ourselves to a process that was optimized and standardized three years ago. And in three years time, I mean, a lot has changed, right? Part of this reminds me, the conversation that was on the podcast last week was with, or maybe the week before, a gentleman, Ben Williams from 3D Systems. And when we were talking to kind of come up with his podcast topic. We landed on this theme of being brilliant on the basics. Okay. So the theme in and of itself, easy to understand. You're talking about like. Building foundational strengths. What got really interesting in our conversation, though, was the distinction for him and my reflection of that in our conversation of the difference between being brilliant on the basics versus mastering the basics, because we were basically talking about how in service today, mastery is probably a outdated term because things are changing too fast to master a basic. There's categories of basics that you know you need to be brilliant on, and that's his point, whether it's customer communication or strategic alignment or process optimization. But this idea and something you said at the beginning of going back to continuous. Reflection, continuous analysis, continuous improvement, because The targets are constantly shifting. So it's an interesting, interesting world we're living in today. Absolutely. So we talked a little bit, Steven, about the importance of applying a lens of simplification, both on the process and on the technology side. Can you talk a bit about that?

Steven - 00:22:36: Yeah. I think. Not only as Proxmox as a company in general, we kind of like to over-complexify certain situations. And we want to kind of say yes to every situation. Just create complexity. And if you drag that along with you, get a bunch of stuff that you have in your organization, in your processes, in your IT system that are very complicated. Maintaining that is costly, especially when you're moving from one big system to another, that transformation, dragging all that complexity with you, that ultimately becomes really a burden. So I think getting that simplification into your culture is an interesting thing because it will allow you to finally get rid of some of that legacy complexity that you have been pulling along with you for some time. I'm sure everybody can think of many use cases that you say, yeah, we have built this because maybe one day, exceptionally, we might need this because this and that. But how often is it that you actually need it and how? Big of a problem would it be if you were to met with that situation with a more standard or simple approach?

Sarah - 00:23:56: Yeah.

Steven - 00:23:57: And often just by asking yourself that question, is there a simpler way to approach this? You might finally introduce some optimization level simplification in your business.

Sarah - 00:24:09: Yeah.

Steven - 00:24:10: And it's the same for business processes. And also the same for IT implementations of them. Sometimes we implement things, too complicated, putting pieces of the logic in multiple systems and then linking that together through integrations, which ultimately works, but then when you scale up, you see that, okay, performance-wise, you're not meeting the standards.

Sarah - 00:24:35: Yeah.

Steven - 00:24:36: So you have to revisit that anyway. And often it's because during that engineering process, We often don't ask ourselves, can we do this in a simpler, straightforward way?

Sarah - 00:24:48: Right. Yeah, I love that point. And I'm thinking like. In the what's next world that we're living in, people are very focused on adding. Not thinking about, okay, so maybe we do need to add something here, a tool, what have you, but Also, what could we maybe take away? What could we maybe remove? In this process, right? And I think, you know, from a technology standpoint, you get to a point where you've compiled so much stuff, it can be a nightmare. I think though, also from a process standpoint, this is where sometimes people get stuck because it's working, but that doesn't necessarily mean it's... The best way or the best way for where the business is going versus where the business has been, right? So I really like this idea of... You know, not only thinking about what's next and what more do we need to do, but also where are we and what could we eliminate? What could we remove? How could we streamline this? This also gets incredibly important when you think about the customer journey, right? Because once you start to put yourself in the minds of the customer and think about if we're adding this and adding that, are we creating friction points or potential friction points? Or are we making things easier for everyone involved? So I think that's a really good lens to think through. So we've talked about the fact that in a lot of ways, excellence is certainly a moving target. You're continuously looking at what needs to change, where do we need to optimize, where do we need to add, et cetera, where do we need to streamline? What? Are you doing in terms of managing all of that change?

Steven - 00:26:30: Trying to find-

Sarah - 00:26:32: Trying to survive.

Steven - 00:26:33: Trying to survive. That's for sure. Trying to survive. Now the challenge is time.

Sarah - 00:26:37: Yeah.

Steven - 00:26:38: Because you have all these objectives, everything you want to do. There just isn't enough time to do everything. So you really have to pick your battles time to time. What I'm trying to tell my team also is always to keep that in the back of your minds. If you see opportunities to simplify, just go for it. And always ask that question. In every interaction you have, always ask that question. Can we do it simpler? Can we do it easier? And the more early you top the question, the higher I think the chances are that you will get it clean and lean first time, right?

Sarah - 00:27:13: Yeah.

Steven - 00:27:14: And that's sometimes where I think the agile way of working is sometimes working against us because with agile, it's like getting stuff out quickly. Try fast, fail fast.

Sarah - 00:27:25: Yeah.

Steven - 00:27:25: But you don't spend enough time, in my opinion, on thinking about the next run. Or there is no time. You just want to get it out very quickly. And sometimes you end up... Putting quick and dirty solution in production that is there to stay for a long, long time. Because we doing that, there is often no time or no resources to make it better. We often have the discussion with the IT teams also have a huge backlog of technical depth that they just can't work through because there is always, like you say, the next thing, the next thing, the next thing. So. That's what I'm trying to achieve.

Sarah - 00:28:04: Yeah.

Steven - 00:28:04: No, always easy, but If I need to take a priority point, It's It would be that.

Sarah - 00:28:12: Yeah.

Steven - 00:28:13: Making sure we get the simplification dialogue as going as soon as possible, as early as possible.

Sarah - 00:28:18: Yeah. I think there's two things that you've said in this session that I think are very relevant to this point. And maybe I'm stating the obvious. I mean, I've probably been guilty of that as much as asking two questions at once, but I do so because I think there are points that are worth reflecting on, right? There's two things you've said that I think... Have an incredible impact on an organization's appetite for change. One is you are seeking to understand. So just keeping that lens in mind of you're not just pushing change or orders to people, you are taking the time to listen. Doesn't mean you're going to give them the answer they want to hear. It doesn't necessarily change the outcome. What it does, though, is make them feel respected and appreciated and that they have a voice. And I think in change management, that's crucial. The second thing you stated is that Proximus is very transparent. And I think, again, more of a communication aspect, but When you're in a... Landscape of continuous and rapid change. Just cutting the BS and just being honest with people, being direct with people, explaining the why, listening to feedback, but also just not... Painting pictures, not telling stories, just being real, I think also helps a lot. So those are two things that you've mentioned that I think probably play a big role in the organization's ability to... Put up with that continuous change. Because it's a lot for everyone. So. You talked a little bit, when we think about looking ahead to the future, right? You talked about the pressure of time, right? And this sort of, there's never enough time. You can't get to everything you need to get to. That's a reality for everyone. But how do you figure out how to take the step back? To be intentional in the decisions you're making and not just buckle under the pressure of just race, race, race, and get caught in only the short term, not the midterm and the long term.

Steven - 00:30:32: Now, well, it kind of links back to that story about objectives and key results and having that few, unfortunately you won't win them all. Sometimes you have to just make the hard choice and say, okay, I don't really have an alternative now, so I will let this one slide. It's nicking. The right decision at the right time, it's not always easy because there's so many things that are coming in, as you say. For me, the North Star keeps on being those objectives of those key results, as always is a good anchor point for me.

Sarah - 00:31:05: Yeah, I guess that works in an organization where the objectives are not only short-sighted.

Steven - 00:31:10: They're not only short-sighted.

Sarah - 00:31:12: And I say that because there are leaders that are in situations where maybe that framing wouldn't work as well because there isn't enough mid and long-term thinking at the levels that are setting the objectives. And then that can become a challenge as well. But as long as you feel like the objectives are well-balanced. Then you're right. That gives you sort of the way to look at things and make sure, okay, I could rush into this decision, but am I sacrificing this or this in doing so?

Steven - 00:31:43: What I'm always trying to tell my team also to develop as a skill is the ability to sometimes let go. Because in general, I'm tracking about 50, 60 initiatives that have an impact on the domain. I'm kind of responsible for the skill service domain. And it will be impossible for my team to be involved in every single one of them. They will not all go at the same time, but even 10, 15 initiatives at the same time, you'll be able to manage. So having that ability to sometimes say, okay, I'm going to let this one slide and I'll pick it up in a later phase is a very good skill to have. Because you can't control them all.

Sarah - 00:32:24: Yeah. I struggle with that.

Steven - 00:32:26: Yeah.

Sarah - 00:32:26: Yeah.

Steven - 00:32:27: I struggle with that as well.

Sarah - 00:32:28: Like, I like to think like, no, no, I can do it all. Trust me.

Steven - 00:32:31: I won't be involved at all.

Sarah - 00:32:33: Ged's smiling because he knows.

Steven - 00:32:34: Exactly.

Sarah - 00:32:35: Yeah.

Steven - 00:32:35: It's a skill I always need to develop myself.

Sarah - 00:32:37: But you're absolutely right. Yeah.

Steven - 00:32:38: The ability to let it go, let it slide and say, I will pick it up when I have time in some near future or not.

Sarah - 00:32:46: You'll pick it up when it is the most important thing to pick up. If it is the most important thing to pick up. Yeah. Yeah. That's good. Any other thoughts or advice on this quest of continuous improvement to achieving field service excellence?

Steven - 00:33:02: Well, I think having the organization in place to make sure your documentation is as up to date as possible will really help you to scale up if needed and to always have something you can go back to if you don't have directly the answer. That's one. I think very interesting today to have as an ability or a capability is measuring the implementation of your processes, how healthy are your processes, and with today's capabilities you have, I think all that you need from a technological perspective to use the data in your organization to measure how healthy your processes are working. And this is a very good tool to have as a team such as mine, which is basically an advisory team, to factualize some of the incoming requests or concerns. Yeah. And this is a good thing to have because often what I have seen is that sometimes the problem is not as bad as it appears to be.

Sarah - 00:34:05: Right.

Steven - 00:34:05: And it can allow you to sometimes quickly send back a request just by factualizing the incoming concern. So if you have that possibility to invest in this measuring, process mining, factualization of your theory, that's really a good thing to have.

Sarah - 00:34:25: Yeah, that makes sense. And I appreciate you coming and sharing with us today and joining us live at IFS Unleashed. So it was a pleasure.

Steven - 00:34:35: Thank you.

Sarah - 00:34:35: Thank you for being here.

Steven - 00:34:36: Thank you very much.

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Highlights from Field Service Europe 2024

Episode 290

In this episode of the Unscripted Podcast, host Sarah Nicastro Sarah shares what stood out to her from last week’s Field Service Europe event in Amsterdam. She discusses how industry leaders like Yasir Sheikh advocate for a shift from traditional service models to proactive, value-driven strategies, the role of change management in technology adoption, the interconnectedness of employee engagement, and how digitalization is reshaping customer interactions.

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Episode Highlights:

Sarah - 00:00:00:

What he was talking about here is just the reality that we talk about a lot on the podcast and in future of field services content of there's a lot of opportunity today to redefine how we are delivering service in ways that are both more efficient, but also provide a better outcome to customers. And so I think it's time we really reflect on what that means for everyone's business and the people that are not already down that path need to be thinking about how it fits for them. So when we think about predictive service or remote capabilities, there's different technologies that can play a role in evolving your service delivery model.

Welcome to the Unscripted podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. I am just back from Amsterdam for Field Service Europe and thought I would share some of what stood out to me from my two days at the event. So this is a little bit of my personal highlights, what I took note of, I obviously was not able to attend every session. So this isn't a comprehensive review, but just a bit of an overview for folks that maybe weren't able to be at the event or were there and are curious what stood out in my mind.

So on day one, there was a keynote from Yasir Sheikh with Honeywell talking about predictive service. And there were a couple little terms that he used that I thought were clever and accurate. So one was break-fix is breaking the bank. The second was the status quo is too slow. So really what he was talking about here is just the reality that we talk about a lot on the podcast and in Future of Field Services content, there's a lot of opportunity today to redefine how we are delivering service in ways that are both more efficient, but also provide a better outcome to customers. And so I think it's time we really reflect on what that means for everyone's business. And the people that are not already down that path need to be thinking about how it fits for them. So when we think about predictive service or remote capabilities. There's different technologies that can play a role in evolving your service delivery model. There's different options that are a fit for different types of organizations or different industries, different customer relationships. But the reality is to Yasir's point, break-fix is breaking the bank and the status quo is too slow. So it's time to be looking at more modern options.

There was a question from the audience that morning about the idea of how do we monetize predictive or remote service? And I think this is a really interesting question. It's one that comes up a lot in these types of conversations. And to me, this is really where the idea of service transformation connects into business transformation, because being able to monetize predictive service or remote service capabilities really comes down to changing the conversation with your customers from more of a transactional conversation, which is what you're having in the break-fix scenario, to a value-based conversation. So one that is tied to the outcomes that you are providing, regardless of the service delivery model that is helping you achieve those outcomes. So I think when people ask that question or say that they're struggling to have customers be willing to pay for remote resolution, it's always sort of an indicator to me that they're not, they're changing the operational aspects of the business, but they're not. In parallel changing the commercial conversations with their customers to be based around that value.

There was next a panel discussion talking about first mover risks and rewards. So being an early adopter and when is that beneficial or when is it potentially risky? And the takeaway I took from this conversation is the idea of be an early adopter of innovation, not necessarily technology. So being a first mover isn't about adopting every new technology feature that comes along. It's about continually looking at how you innovate and improve your business. And sometimes that will mean leveraging the latest technology. Sometimes it's a process change. Sometimes it's a new offering to your customers, etc. Really thinking about it from the perspective of the business challenges and the business opportunities, not just from the perspective of leveraging every different facet of technology that's available in a non-cohesive manner. There was also the point made that sometimes first mover doesn't necessarily mean getting ahead if change management is overlooked and therefore adoption is poor. So the panelists shared some examples of when their organizations were first movers, but ultimately fell behind because of the execution of that investment. So you can be early to the game, but if you don't do a good job of getting stakeholder buy-in and managing that change, you may ultimately find yourself behind someone who is a little bit later to adopt, but better at the process of implementing that tool or technology into their operations.

I had some sort of ad hoc chats with a couple of different folks around AI and The consensus seemed to be that, yes, it's important, and they certainly want to take part in conversations around the development of AI and how best to leverage it, etc. But also feel that having those conversations needs to be well-balanced with having conversations about other areas of service. So are we doing everything we need to do within our core business? Are we fully leveraging the technologies that we already have in place? Have we reflected on and optimized our processes, etc.? So just kind of reflecting on the fact that, yes, it's an important technological advancement and one that will certainly have an impact on our space, but that there is a lot of other pieces to the puzzle to continue talking about.

I hosted a session on day one with Marcus Bazzi, who is the product owner for OneService at Alfa Laval. Alfa Laval is currently in the midst of a global service transformation with IFS. And Marcus spoke about the catalyst for that transformation, the selection of IFS as its field service management provider, what the key criteria were, what the objectives of the transformation are, and where they are in that process. So the company currently is about 70% through their global deployment and expects to complete that process in January. And what I really loved about the session Marcus and I did is how he shared the success they've had around managing change. So change management is often the area of challenge, friction, failure, if we're being honest, in a lot of transformation projects. And that is commonly something that's brought up when I ask people, what lesson did you learn? What would you do differently? It would be that change management didn't get enough focus. It would be that change management didn't get enough focus. It wasn't planned well enough. It was under-prioritized. It was cut from the budget. It was rushed through, et cetera. And we know that it's critically important. We talk about it all the time, but time and time again, companies somehow fall into the trap of overlooking it or not doing it thoroughly enough. And what Marcus shared is the effort that Alfa Laval put into planning for change management. And they have this process that consists of a part that they do before each location is next to have their turn to implement. So they have a team that goes in before. That area's deployment begins. They familiarize them with the solution. They talk about the why behind the project. They ask or they take questions. They listen to feedback. They give people an opportunity to really understand what's coming before they get to the point where they're asking them to do anything with it. And then they have a four-week hypercare timeframe for each location as they're deploying. So the team is very hands-on in providing support walking them through the use of the technology, making sure they feel comfortable with it, making sure that they can ask any questions they have, get any support they need, give any feedback that they have. And then they have a support process for after each location has deployed so that folks know where they can go if they have issues or they have questions or they have thoughts about what would make the solution better. So Mark has talked about this three-step process that they have, but also shared, some anecdotes from the company's CEO about how that focus on change management has made this the smoothest technology deployment that they have ever had. And it's because they not only thought about that three-step process, but they have made sure stakeholders have been involved since early on. They make sure that everyone feels they have an outlet to ask questions and share feedback. So it was really nice to take part in a session where it was a storybook, a story of change management success and the benefit that's provided to Alfa Laval through this process versus one where you're ultimately sharing lessons learned. So that was really cool.

On day two, Marco Hugo Gutierrez of Tetra Pak opened with a keynote on the new economics of service profitability. Absolutely loved this session. Marco talked about the importance of having harmony between your financials, employee engagement, and customer experience. So he talked about it in the form of being three sides of a triangle and how each are equally important. He gave some examples of what happens within the business if any one of those three sides of the triangle are out of balance. So if you stop focusing on any one of the three of those, there's specific challenges that are commonly going to surface. He then went on to share some of the specific steps Tetra Pak has taken in each of those three areas. To make improvements, to make sure that there's equal and ample focus being put into each of them, not any one of them, but all of them, and talked about the impact that's had on their business. I think the reality is that of those three sides of the triangle, if there's one that companies are going to overlook, it's employee engagement. And there was some really good reinforcement within what he shared about why that is foolish and how it will harm the business. If you are really looking at the impact and specifically the long-term impact of that type of mentality. And I just think looking at the interconnectedness of those three things and keeping in mind the importance of each of them and the weighting of each of them, it's such an important mentality and he delivered the session very well.

There was a panel discussion around how digitalization is changing customer touchpoints, which are still important, which are maybe becoming obsolete, et cetera. And Alvaro Pombo moderated that session. And I loved, he gave the reminder at the beginning about how Jeff Bezos has an empty chair in every meeting to represent the customer. And it's such a small thing, but I think it's a powerful reminder to be thinking in every scenario, in every decision about that customer lens and how will this impact our customer? How does this benefit our customer? What would our customers say about this change? Particularly when you're thinking about, do our customers still want to have to place a call to make an appointment? Or would all of our customers be comfortable if placing a call in this specific scenario was not an option? So really thinking about each and every decision with the customer in mind.

Kiera Maiello of Thermo Fisher spoke about the importance of global data harmonization in the business, not only in operations, but in commercial and beyond. And she said, and gave again some insight on how Thermo has tackled that harmonization, which was great information on its own, but also becomes doubly important for companies that are looking to better leverage or further leverage AI, which is most. So that was a good session as well.

Johnson Controls and AECOM spoke about revolutionizing field service decarbonization, which I was A, happy to see being covered, and B, happy for the specifics that they gave on not only the growing importance of decarbonization and the various stakeholders that it is mattering more and more to, but also some of the opportunities specifically within field service to have a positive impact. There was a panel discussion on work-life balance, and it was a great conversation. There were a lot of good things covered. But what stood out to me is that each of the three leaders, that Maureen was speaking to in this session, all emphasize the importance of FaceTime, face-to-face time with and among their Teams and getting to know your reports one-to-one. So these leaders spoke about how it's nearly impossible to be a good leader and to help your reports progress through their career and also to identify when they're having a struggle if you don't invest the time to get to know them on a personal level and just what difference that makes when it comes to understanding what work-life balance means to each of them, understanding what their priorities are, keeping in mind that things like work-life balance, even mental health, there's no one-size-fits-all approach. So it really comes down to getting to know people well, one-on-one. And often I think people look for a shortcut to that because it's time-consuming, it can be expensive. But when you have Teams who are often in isolation, it's so incredibly important as a leader to invest that time.

Barrett Haugren of Tetra Pak shared about the company's one-service transformation and talked about their four key pillars. So people, process, systems, and data and shared some great lessons learned. Barrett has been with Tetra Pak for, I think, 30 years and has been through a number of different transformation journeys and had some really good input on how they've structured this transformation, what they're learning as they go, and things for the audience to keep in mind. In the closing panel, it was sort of an ask me anything, ask the experts anything. One person asked, they said, AI will standardize a lot. So what does future differentiation look like? Where does it come from if we standardize a lot of these touch points or possibly remove a lot of touch points? I thought it was a really good question, and I was intrigued by the responses. So one of the participants said, that differentiation will always come from the warm feeling, which can come from many different things. To some customers, that's the personal relationship. To some customers, that's quick and seamless resolution, whatever it is that's going to give them that feeling. Another said they don't believe AI will affect differentiation. And the third sort of clarified that in saying, AI ultimately should assist in areas where we don't have differentiated value and highlight the areas where we do and we're strong in our differentiation. And I really like that point. I think I agree that if you understand your customers well, and you know what matters to them, AI isn't something that's going to take away or risk taking away your competitive differentiation. It's something that's going to minimize a lot of the noise that is not your competitors differentiation really interesting stuff.

So that is my personal highlights from Field Service Europe 2024. It was wonderful to see so many friendly faces and have an opportunity to catch up with some different folks. I know I shared on social during Unleashed a few weeks ago, how much the opportunity to get together in person with people means to me. I just talked about that in the lens of the leadership context and it's just true all around. There is I love Teams and I love Zoom. They are great tools, but there's no substitute for being able to get together with people in real life. So it was a pleasure to be there. Although after three weeks of travel, I'm also very happy to be home and looking forward to staying put for a while, but we'll certainly look forward to the next. So we will have some more coverage on futurefieldservice.com. So be sure to keep an eye out there for things related to each of these topics. We recently released a report that we did with, with our standout 50 leaders. So if you haven't had a look for that, please jump over to the website and take a look. There's a lot of great information in there. And so that can all be found at futurefieldservice.com. The Unscripted podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more at ifs.com. And as always, thank you for listening.

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Exploring the Role of Coalitions in the Advanced Services Journey

Episode 289

In this episode of the Unscripted podcast, host Sarah Nicastro welcomes Dr. Kawal Kapoor, Research Manager at the Advanced Services Group of Aston Business School, and Sandra Benbow, Senior Industrial Fellow and Servitization Mentor, for a discussion based on both their research and hands-on work with firms, about how coalitions play a valuable role in the Servitization journey.

Kawal oversees research for the Advanced Services Partnership, focusing on publishing in top peer-reviewed journals and creating executive workshops and mini-guides on servitization. In her book, Servitization Strategy, she explores outcome-based business models, known as Advanced Services Business Models, offering practical guidance on how firms can innovate these services through servitization.

Sandra is a business growth coach, ecosystem builder, and innovation champion. Over the last twenty years, she has helped over 400 founders and senior executives launch, scale, and grow their businesses. Sandra is also a Business Growth and Management Coach for the Evergreen Coaching Group and an ITU Digital Ecosystem Expert at the International Telecommunication Union.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Also, subscribe to our newsletter right here.

Episode Highlights:

Kawal - 00:00:00: So you speak of servitization, it's that transformation of an industrial firm. So we're talking massive organizational change. And we know that everything to do with servitization and manufacturing firms is first met with resistance. And when you think of coalitions, you think of a group of people who, when they're working together, will have just enough power to lead change in an organization.

Sarah - 00:00:32: Welcome to the UNSCRIPTED podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Today, we're going to be talking about the role that coalitions can play in the advanced services journey. I am excited to welcome back to the podcast, Kawal Kapoor. Dr. Kawal Kapoor is the Research Manager at The Advanced Services Group of Aston Business School, along with Sandra Benbow, who is Senior Industrial Fellow at The Advanced Services Group. So ladies, welcome to the podcast.

Sandra - 00:01:17: Thank you.

Kawal - 00:01:18: Thank you.

Sarah - 00:01:18: Thanks for being here. So some of you that listen regularly may remember Kawal from episode number 266. We had a great conversation then. We're going to have another great conversation today along with Sandra. And before we get into everything, I'm going to ask you both to just share a little bit more about yourselves. And Kawal, not everyone may have seen your first go-round on the podcast. So let's start with you and share whatever you would like.

Kawal - 00:01:47: First off, thank you, Sarah, for having me here again. It's good to be doing another podcast with you. You're about me. Yes, my name is Kawal Kapoor. And as you mentioned, I'm the Research Manager for The Advanced Services Group. We are a research-based group focused on servitization. And I take on the responsibility of developing and maintaining our research IP and managing our research activities, basically. So it's my job to guarantee that our research is reliable, it's credible, it's ethical, and it contributes to the advancement of knowledge in the field of servitization. So the last podcast you invited me to, we spoke about the servitization playbook. Which is a great example of the practice-informed work we do. And now one of the newest research outputs, again, very much informed by what happens across firms and directors, is our mini-guide on building winning coalitions for servitization. So I'm very happy to be here today to speak to you about this brand new mini-guide. And of course, we have Sandra with us. Sandra, you want to introduce yourself?

Sandra - 00:02:52: Thanks, Kawal. And Sarah, thank you for inviting me along. I know, as I said, Kawal is a pro and she's done this before. So it's my first time here. And yes, as you said, I'm a Senior Industrial Fellow for Aston Business School, the The Advanced Services Group. And I'm also a Servitization Advisor with the group. I've been working in servitization, advanced services, almost seven years, which I can't believe it's that long. So I was managing for two years when I was in the UK, our SME program, working with small and medium-sized businesses and really helping them to understand the benefits of services and how to develop the value propositions around services and new business models. And then the last four to five years I've been over in Germany. So I'm based near Hamburg and I work with our global manufacturing companies, predominantly in Europe. So we have a large base of customers over in Europe as well as other parts of the world. So we are growing as an organization, but my role is really to work hands on with the company. So while Kawal is very much engaged with the research agenda and making sure that, as you said, that we have the IP from the companies, we're really there helping, I'm helping them to practically apply the models and frameworks that have been developed through the work that Kawal does through our mini guides and working very closely with Kawal and the team to really help companies understand the research and how that applies to their business journey, especially in terms of this servitization agenda. So that's me. Thank you.

Sarah - 00:04:14: Yes. And thank you both for being here. Any of our regular or long-time listeners should be familiar with the The Advanced Services Group. We've had Professor Tim Baines on the podcast numerous times, as well as others from the organization. And I've interviewed a good number of the companies that you all do this work with. And I've stated before, but will state again, what I've always appreciated so much about The Advanced Services Group is that it is that combination of the research, Kawal, that you lead and conduct to assess what's going on and what the trends are. But also it's grounded in that practice of working with organizations yourselves, and seeing how that research applies what it looks like in the real world. And a lot of times organizations are doing one or the other, but it's you're doing both, which I have found makes your content very insightful. So I'm glad you're both here. So, Kaw, I'm going to start with you. Today, we're talking about the idea of coalitions and the role that they play in the servitization journey. So, can you start with just telling everyone what exactly a coalition is?

Kawal - 00:05:25: Yeah, sure. So if you look for like coalitions, they're literally everywhere, right? So you look at cartels, creation of cartels, you look at lobbying groups, you look at unions, these are all examples of coalitions. And they're all formed with a specific agenda of achieving very specific goals. So you look at them as temporary alliances where either groups or individuals are coming together, but they are there to achieve specific shared goals. And in an ideal case, these members of a coalition are going to prioritise on an immediate objective and they're going to avoid focusing on unrelated matters. And they're all very motivated by this pursuit of influence, of control. So basically, you'll find coalitions within farms where multiple stakeholders have agreed to team up so they can influence decisions so they can shape policies to be able to influence how resources within the farm are being distributed or allocated. And they're all collectively focused on an issue or issues that are of significant interest to all of them, basically. All coalition members are in it together. And whether you're looking at organisational studies or you go towards social psychology or you go to political science, they're all studying how individuals with shared goals will form a coalition to work together so they can influence decisions and achieve common goals. So that's coalition-y.

Sarah - 00:07:04: Yeah, so sort of the strength in numbers concept.

Kawal - 00:07:07: Yeah, unified front.

Sarah - 00:07:09: Yeah, for sure. So when we think about the advanced services or servitization journey, what purpose or purposes are you seeing coalitions play in that journey?

Kawal - 00:07:21: When I speak of servitization, it's that transformation of an industrial firm. So we're talking massive organizational change. And we know that everything to do with servitization and manufacturing firms is first met with resistance. And when you think of coalitions, you think of a group of people who, when they're working together, will have just enough power to lead change in an organization. And we say that as a first step or a critical step for any firm that's getting on the servitization journey, you need to establish a strong foundation. And this foundation really needs a dedicated group of people, individuals who believe in the servitization vision, who are willing to champion this transformation by collaboratively working towards the chair vision. And that's what coalition does. It helps you build that support. It builds that momentum for servitization within the firm. It brings different stakeholders from different departments. So you can bring in the right people with the right skills, with the right expertise to push forward the servitization initiative. And the firms that we've worked with, and they're all at different stages of their servitization journey. And one of the many problems that they have, they often come across departmental silos. And for a change initiative like servitization. For it to be successful, you want to ideally break down these silos. And coalition building is something that we see as like a solution in this regard. So it becomes a means to cultivate that culture of collaboration, of uniting individuals from different departments. So. They can come together and they can leverage their combined expertise and push forward with servitization. That united front, right? So you want, when you stand united as a group and you're so focused on pushing something forward, the credibility of that servitization initiative just increases and it makes it more likely for that group to secure the resources that they're after or overcome the internal resistance. So coalition helps you build capacity.

Sarah - 00:09:37: Mm-hmm.

Kawal - 00:09:38: And you can achieve bigger goals by operating as a coalition. So your financial burden are shared, your risks are shared, and therefore they're lower. Your access to resources and ideas and technologies suddenly becomes higher. And that's how you see coalitions play a big role in a firm's privatization journey.

Sarah - 00:09:56: Yeah. It's interesting, as you were talking, I felt like I read your mind a little bit because I was thinking, when I think about where I see companies struggle in this journey, a lot of times because our audience is composed of a lot of service leadership. What we see is this, I don't want to say misunderstanding. It isn't always. It can be or it can just be. They're constricted by looking at this within the lens of service itself. So thinking about it as service innovation versus business transformation, right? And so they can have great ideas and see a lot of the value, but they're still doing so from their own silo, right? Like they're not. And so I think to your point, that's what I was thinking when you started sharing is this not only helps build that momentum, but I would imagine it helps organizations avoid a lot of like fits and starts. Because if you can create that alignment at the beginning, right, it helps you work, not only build that influence as a united front, but keep the vision and the strategy united as you progress through the journey. So very good. So, Sandra, can you share a little bit about. In the servitization context, who ideally would be taking part in the coalition?

Sandra - 00:11:24: Yeah, absolutely. I think in terms of servitization, we know from lots of research and working really closely with firms, this is a really difficult and complex journey. And as we've said already, actually having that united front is absolutely essential. But really understanding who should be part of that coalition, selecting the right people, engaging and managing the right people is really the foundation of a successful servitization program. So I think some of the points already Cal's picked up on and mentioned actually play into this as well. I think one of the biggest factors is really about having the power and influence within the coalition. I think where it's been particularly successful, you need senior leaders across the business to be part of that. Because without power and influence, you can't really instigate any kind of change or have the authority to instigate any kind of change. So there needs to be some senior leadership within the coalition and maybe I think different department heads as well. So we're thinking about those diverse silo busting teams that we need to bring into this. It's not just about, as you say, it's not just about the services, people understanding this. Actually, the coalition is also helping to educate people within the business. So having people from different parts of the company and we find that there's always a bit of conflict between product and service and understanding of what servitization is and how that would benefit the firm. Having people who are from different parts of the business. We've had people from product, from marketing, from sales and service. And really those different departments can help bring diverse viewpoints and also make sure that other views are represented in this coalition. So I think the diversity of the coalition is important and also reputation and credibility. So we've got senior leaders, but are they those senior leaders? Are they respected and are they credible? And are they strong leaders who really will motivate and inspire people to follow them and build that consensus and navigate these challenges? So I think there's a number of factors to consider when putting together and developing a coalition and who might be those members. And then within the coalition, they all play different roles as the coalition develops and grows. But from the outset, I think it's important to get those key players. And over time, that will evolve and change as the coalition and the servitization agenda moves forward for the company as well.

Sarah - 00:13:46: That makes sense. And I was thinking about an interview I did a while back with a gentleman, Howard Boland, who led, I don't think he's with Schneider anymore, but he led a service for Schneider Electric in Australia. And we were talking about like his effort to bring forward power as a service. Okay. And he said this thing, which I really liked, but I'm reflecting on it in the context of our conversation, which is he started by looking for the adventurers. And so I think that can be a really good way to get started. But I also think when I was listening to what you were sharing, I was thinking about the importance of having those adventurers as part of the coalition, but also making sure it's not only the adventurers, right? Because those are the people who are going to be... More open to risk, more open to change, more excited and passionate about the opportunity versus you need to be grounding that in some of those pockets of resistance or skepticism or even just healthily vetting the ideas that you're discussing and the path that you're setting forward. So I was just thinking about that connection and it's interesting.

Sandra - 00:15:03: I think you're right in terms of bringing up the first people who are likely to want to join would be those adventurers. I suppose they're the early adopters and they can see the benefits quite clearly. But as you say, bringing on people who are more implementers as well maybe in terms of you need action. You've got to get those people as part of the coalition as well.

Sarah - 00:15:23: Yeah. And I mean, we know that there are different types of leaders, right? It's not... Common for someone to be both the innovator and the change agent and also the operational execution-centric type of leader. So you have to make sure you're balancing that. Okay. So, Kawal, other than making sure that you have the right people involved, what else makes a coalition effective in helping companies progress through this journey?

Kawal - 00:15:56: I think one of the most important things is for the coalition to have that very well-defined vision for the change initiative. And this needs to be agreed by all members, which is a clear vision of how servitization is going to benefit the firm, how our service is going to enhance their product offerings, how they're going to benefit their customers, improve customer satisfaction. And basically what they want is a lot of new revenue streams. It's a lot of hows. And that shared vision is what is going to keep the team focused, keep the coalition focused. It's going to motivate them through the challenges. It's going to allow them to communicate the benefits of servitization quite effectively to others in the firm, which is really important, especially when something like servitization is often met with resistance. So you need that. Then you also want to look at what this structure of the coalition is looking like. It is who does what in a coalition. So Sandra mentioned leadership. So this is important. Appointing a dedicated coalition leader to spearhead that initiative. Because you want someone to give you that strategic direction. It's important. And it's also quite early on assigning responsibilities amongst the coalition members based on their skills, their interests, whether it's various service specific or their expertise is in product development or you want customer service to be involved in this. So all of the relevant areas to be covered based on their strengths. And very much early on communicating to these members of the coalition. What a successful privatization would mean for them, because that's what's going to keep them motivated. That's what's going to keep them in the coalition, because people drop in and out of coalition all the time. But what you want is retention, and you want to retain the people who are going to pull through and take the agenda forward. And this might sound simple, and this might sound something that all of us know about, but... For a coalition to be effective, you want to build... That positive collaborative environment. You want to define clear communication channels. And because this is something so simple, it can very easily be overlooked. Things like building rapport, encouraging open and honest communication, especially when you're discussing challenges and opportunities with servitization are big, are massive, and you can be adventurous and you can dream up all of the outcomes. But to achieve it, you need that level of communication. And the coalition really needs contingency plans in place because conflicts are coming. You know, what the potential conflicts are going to look like. It could be something as simple as disagreements over strategies. It could be something to do with resource allocation, with customer engagement, or something that you've completely not accounted for, unexpected conflicts. And I think the last point is, of course, you can't miss out on recognizing and rewarding achievements and servitization and learning from setbacks and then applying those learnings in your future efforts. So you need to have plans in place to, like I was saying a minute ago, to maintain the interest of the coalition members, to have their commitment as you progress over time, and essentially adapt the coalition's approach as needed. Because everything evolves and you need to move with the evolution.

Sarah - 00:19:32: What about, are there any, like, notable common missteps?

Kawal - 00:19:37: Yeah, the notes, like I could possibly do an entire podcast with you around the missteps. But yeah, it's a good point to actually touch on that. So as it happens, conflict is one of the most inherent aspects of coalition, right? So despite having a shared vision, a coalition is, it has different people and different people with different ways of how they approach tasks and how they approach decision making. And it becomes really, really prominent, really obvious during periods of organizational change with servitization. So you start to see conflicting priorities. You'll see competing interests between coalition members. And this will cause disputes. This will affect your timelines. And this will affect the level of trust your coalition members have amongst themselves. So this is something that can really threaten. This debilitating. Of a coalition. While we're at it, you don't want to have too many long-term goals. So too much focus on long-term goals is something you want to avoid because you need short-term objectives that can lead to really quick wins. Otherwise, the danger with these long-term goals is they can bring down a coalition's morale and it's going to negatively affect the momentum of your coalition. And we were talking about the leadership, right? So one of the dangers is senior leaders, disengaging from the coalition after it's formed. You want leadership involvement because it really massively helps in managing resistance. So if you don't have their ongoing support, a coalition can struggle to implement the changes that it's planned for. Recruiting the wrong people, it's going to create very weak group dynamics. Reflecting personalities, you're headed towards a dysfunctional coalition because ideally, you want to recruit individuals who share compatible values and beliefs. This is difficult to achieve, but you really need to. Consider the long-term implications. Sabotage is not an overnight journey, right? It's going to take you a good while. So you need to consider the long-term implications of working with different people and how their values are going to interact and might impact your coalition's effectiveness. And when you're recruiting people, you want to avoid, you want to be careful about the composition of your coalition. So you need a good mix of frontline staff. You need little managers. You need senior level staff, right? It can be... Very tempting to have higher senior level representation and it's valuable But if we start to rely too much on the higher level staff, it could mean that you're undermining buy-in from other parts of the organization. So you want that mix, you want that balanced mix where you've got the strategic vision, but then you also have the operational expertise. So again, everything for effective change management. And we touched upon communication earlier. One of the biggest things that happens with poor communication is duplicating effort because coordination is crucial in coalitions. So if people are not going to be communicating, then they'd be working, there'd be duplicating effort, there'll be work done across purposes. And I think it comes down, and that's what we've seen, it comes down to the coalition leader to either identify someone who can perform this role, or take it upon themselves to make sure that... This does not happen. If the coalition has not sufficiently gone for external shocks. Then we see a coalition getting derailed very quickly. One final thing, and this was an interesting one for me when I was doing the research on coalitions, the idea of a counter-coalition. You have to be wary of counter-coalitions. You can't rule them out. And these will be formed deliberately. Within firms to disrupt a coalition's progress. So they're just opposing groups. They're targeting specific issues and they're looking to undermine your coalition's goals. So you need to have measures in place to counter these coalitions. So yeah, there's loads of things. Sorry, I can keep going.

Sarah - 00:24:00: Yeah, okay. So Sandra, with the hands-on work you do with some of the group's partners who are on this journey, what have you found in terms of the success organizations who put a coalition in place have versus those who don't?

Sandra - 00:24:18: Good question. I can think of quite a few nicer examples here. I'll just choose two. I think one of the six, we'll start with the success because it's always nice to talk about the successful businesses. I think one of the successful companies that we've worked with, they worked very early on to create a guiding coalition for this program and for the civilization strategy. And I think as some of the things that Kawal's mentioned in the mishaps and what to avoid, they were able to recruit a really strong management team, but also people from within the business, from other parts of the business as well. So that middle and middle management and also people who are on the front line. So there was a really good mix and also people who are customer facing, because I think that's so important when you're designing new business models, when you're designing new value propositions, having people who actually do have that contact with the customer as well. And understand from the customer's shoes, we're always talking about servitization really starts there with the customer. So they've really got an understanding of why this is a, they've got the vision and they've got the strategy and they've got a good understanding within the coalition itself. So it's about shared interests, common goals and having a team that are willing to explore the opportunities. So this is a company that have put all the foundations in place. They've thought about who should be in the coalition. They've started developing coalition very early in their journey and they've actually strategically identified people that they wanted to bring on board and made sure that there's a good mix and a diverse team to support what they're doing. And they've gone through different parts of the business as well. So what that's really helped them do is help them secure the resources and the momentum because it is a complex non-linear journey. We know companies have those stops and starts, but it's really helped them. There's a lot of these large global companies can take 10 years to move through this change process. So I think we've seen that they, they're, they're quite early on the journey, but they've actually been able to navigate quite a few of the challenges early on and move forward more quickly because they've got a coalition in place. And then now they're strengthening that coalition across the wider business. And we're doing quite a lot of work with them in terms of mapping stakeholders, internal communications. And so it's really trying to influence and bring on board the wider business as well for this agenda. So I think that's an example, I think of an early company, it's early on the journey, but they've really started in the right way and avoided, some of those missteps that Kawal's already mentioned. And then we do, I mean, I think they're referenced in the privatization strategy book. We do have companies that have been unsuccessful. Not every company is going to be successful with the privatization program. If it was, then we wouldn't need, we wouldn't need to be here and everyone could do it. It's very difficult to do it. It's a really difficult competitive strategy for companies to, to achieve. And the company that I'm thinking of, obviously I won't mention any names, but it was, it's really about, you say like that, that strength in numbers. And they had a couple of people who were very bought into the idea of services. This was, I think probably five or six years ago. And they'd been working in this space for some time, really trying to sort of push the agenda and bring people on board. But I think the biggest challenge they had was that they didn't, that senior level buy-in, they really struggled to get that. And they really struggled to grow the coalition and build and galvanize support behind the agenda. And eventually, I think it was a cultural issue. I think there wasn't, there wasn't much understanding of the benefits of servitization across the business. And there wasn't really the support. And eventually, I think that the key person who was driving that agenda actually left and went to work for another company because they basically got fed up with trying to bang the drum and trying to move this forward. So sometimes, sometimes it won't work. And if you can't get the support behind it and the right people in place, but also it might not be a good match for the culture in the organization. So it doesn't always work. But the coalition, it was very clear they didn't have a coalition. And that was a big part of why it wasn't successful in the end.

Sarah - 00:28:10: Yeah, that makes sense. And I like your point about the first example you shared. It takes some time, obviously, to put a coalition together and to make sure that you have the right members and the right focus. And Kaw, to your point, the right, not only ultimate goal, but objectives and milestones that you want to work toward. That foundational work, Sandra, to your point, then can help you progress through the continuum. Not necessarily faster, could be faster with more ease, perhaps, than you see companies that... Don't have that from the beginning that end up, I'm thinking of your roadmap and then the game. So I was at a session with Professor Baines and the group at Tetra Pak in July, and we played the game, the board game of the serpentization roadmap. And there's all these things that can take you back to the beginning, right? And so if you have that coalition, it doesn't mean that won't happen, but the likelihood of getting pushed back to the starting line decreases. So that's a good way to think about it.

Kawal - 00:29:16: Definitely. Because you played the snakes and ladders game.

Sarah - 00:29:18: Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Sandra, I know that one of the things that the The Advanced Services Group does with your partners is host roundtables and different partners will host these and there's different topics associated. So I know you had one in September that was on the topic of coalitions. And I'm just curious, anything you could share from that day and those conversations, in terms of the real world insight of the companies participating on what they think about this, where they are with this, anything that stood out to you?

Sandra - 00:29:56: Absolutely. Yeah. As you said, we meet regularly, well, three times a year with our partners. And these are great opportunities for us to really work with the companies, understand their challenges and where they are, and also share the latest best practice in terms of serpentization and the research. And we always pick a topic that's very close to the hearts of our partners. And coalitions and coalition building has come up again and again. So it was really important that we focused. It was actually two whole days of thinking about coalitions. And obviously, Al was sharing the latest research that we've been doing in this space. And I think all of our partners have coalitions. I don't think they would be able to be on the journey without them. And I think they all see them as essential in driving their services agenda. So obviously, we are working with these forward thinking companies that are already on this path to servitization. So I think they're very, they're bought into the idea of coalitions. But as you say, we have partners at different stages of that journey. Some of the companies, we are new members who've joined in the last year or two, and they're maybe at the start of that transformational roadmap. So they're really just about creating the guiding coalitions. But I think, and then obviously the other companies that we have who have been with us for some time, obviously they have sort of stronger, more established coalitions that they are, they're developing and they're nurturing. And so they see them again as a real sort of essential component to navigate the servitization landscape and servitization journey. I think there's a lot of best practice sharing. So they're talking about what's worked well. And I think some examples with some of the companies have done some work on stakeholder mapping internally and thinking about which stakeholders do we actually need to bring in and who is essential to our coalition and being a bit more strategic about how they develop and grow it and the different roles that people will play in the coalition. Obviously, as Kawal said, that having that vision and having that strategy and the leader on board and consistent leadership during that period. And it can be quite a, it's a long journey. It can be some time. So I think those that have done particularly well have had consistent leadership, they've had consistent senior level support. And also the teams that they've created have been these cross-functional multidisciplinary teams. So they're following the guidance that I think we'll be putting out, a lot of the guidance that we'll be putting out. But also like Kawal said, I think a key part is leadership and communication. And I think those were sort of themes that were discussed quite a lot over the two days as well. So I think all in all, coalitions are super important for servitization and companies do recognize that in order to be successful on a program, successful on a servitization program, they need a strong coalition and they are spending time and resources developing the coalition so they can move forward in the journey, whether they can move quickly, but they'll still meet the challenges, but it might be smoother for them when they have that support behind them. So yeah, I think that was some of the insights that I heard when we were talking with the partners from the different organizations.

Sarah - 00:32:59: Yeah. And I mean, it just comes back to the benefit of community, right? And so there's value in the research you guys are doing, of course, on its own. There's value in the one-to-one work, Sandra, you and others are doing with the partners that you have to help advise them and support them along this journey, but there's such huge value in the opportunity to bring these folks together three times a year and give them the chance to not only engage with the broader The Advanced Services Group team, but to really spend that time engaging with one another. I mean, I'm, we have our own events. I'm a huge believer in I always say, If you come to one of our events, no one's going to give you a blueprint for success on any given topic. But in hearing those different perspectives, there's going to be these lightbulb moments that can really affect the trajectory of your own journey. Just by making you think a little bit differently about something or by bringing something to the forefront of your mind that you hadn't thought about before. That is hard to do if it isn't based on those shared experiences. So, yeah, it's great that you all are engaging in all of those different ways. And it helps you stay grounded to what... The real world is saying and thinking and needing, but it also really provides a lot of value to them to get to know one another. And to one of my favorite pieces of feedback that I've gotten so many times through our future field service events is I feel so much less alone because I didn't realize how many other people have the same challenge. And, to me, like, there is no better feedback, right? Because life can be hard and work can be hard. And when you're nose down and you can think, oh, my gosh, we're the only company struggling with this or we're the I'm the only leader that doesn't have this figured out. And when you can come together in those ways and those people realize, oh, my gosh, like. I'm just like everyone else. No one has it all figured out. No one's doing everything perfectly. I think there's so much value in that as well. So wonderful. All right. So before we get to, I want to share some information and resources here at the end. But Kawal, before I do that, any closing thoughts on coalitions and what we've talked through today?

Kawal - 00:35:29: But something that you just said, Sarah, it's funny that everyone's in the same boat. Nobody's figured out what they want or how to do it. They know what they want, but they don't know how to do it. Right? So the direction that we take with our research, it's like heavily influenced by our strategic advisory panel. And we have this meeting with the advisory panel from time to time. And the last meeting was just that. It turned into, oh, that's okay. Even people have got this figured out. And it's that sense of belonging to the community who are all on the same journey. So they're all industry people, right? They're coming from partner firms. And they just give us these valuable insights into. The challenges they're facing and the challenges that are affecting their industry. And we identify what research we need to do based on what they're saying. But it's amazing. You should watch them all sat together complaining about the same things. And then they realize they're not alone. Everyone's facing the same thing. But no, thank you. It was great chatting to you today. And I guess one last point to mention would be that all of our mini guides and this mini guide as well on coalitions, when we design anything like this one, we are always keeping the managers and executives of industrial firms in our mind. So those with a product manufacturing background and they're now looking to sell services to the customers. So even with coalition, when you talk about a strong coalition, it's like a powerhouse of shared resources and skills, of expertise, of market knowledge. And. The mini guide, in this mini guide, we get into how you can... Select and engage and manage the right people in a coalition to drive the servitization initiative within these firms. So we've developed a framework. It comes right at the end of the mini guide, which executives can use to build a strong, effective servitization coalition. They can use it to monitor its effectiveness from time to time and basically keep that momentum going for the coalition. So there's a nice framework also. Wrapped up in the mini guide.

Sarah - 00:37:39: Wonderful. So is that mini guide available now or it's coming soon?

Kawal - 00:37:45: Yeah, so it's in its final stages. We have to put it through design. So that's what's happening now. But it's going to be released December this year. Because we were talking about a minute ago, our next roundtable is at Baker Hughes and going to be focusing on business cases and how to frame a business case for different stakeholders. And it aligns with our ongoing work in coalition building. So we want to be able to take these mini guides to that roundtable and share our insights with our partners. So yeah, the timeline is, it comes out in December. It's going to be available on our online store. So that's advancedservicesgroup.co.uk. And it should be available to buy in December.

Sarah - 00:38:29: Okay, perfect. So for everyone listening, so the Coalition mini guide will be coming in December. The roundtables are specifically for The Advanced Services Group partners. But just to explain, that's just one piece of how you all are working with your partners. So there's a lot of other things to understand about the partnership between The Advanced Services Group and the firms that it works with. You can find that information, contact information, and the mini guide on coalitions, as well as some other resources at, as Kawal said, advancedservicesgroup.co.uk. Also, there is The Advanced Services Group page on LinkedIn, so you can also make sure that you are following along there. And I mean, of course, we'll have you back again before too long to share some more. So thank you both for coming and spending some time with me today and for having this conversation for our listeners. And I look forward to the next one.

Sandra - 00:39:31: Thank you.

Sarah - 00:39:32: Okay. You can find more of our content from the UNSCRIPTED podcast, as well as Future of Field Service articles by visiting futureoffieldserviceref.ifs.com. The podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more at ifs.com. As always, thank you for listening.

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Coca-Cola: Honoring a Legacy Without Leaning Too Much On It

October 23, 2024 | 27 Mins Read

Coca-Cola: Honoring a Legacy Without Leaning Too Much On It

Episode 288

In this episode of the Unscripted podcast, host Sarah Nicastro welcomes Michael Galon, Director of North America Service Operations at The Coca-Cola Company, for a conversation about honoring Coca-Cola's rich legacy and embracing innovation in a fast-paced market, as well as staffing challenges, AI, and maintaining service excellence.

Michael is responsible for overall equipment services strategy at Coca-Cola, including installation, repair and project execution for the foodservice and on-premise organization of North America Operating Unit. He leads a high-performing team of 14 Service Operations Managers, Commercialization and Development Managers in the execution of the equipment service strategy through the performance management, alignment and oversight of $300MM spend with over 620 service providers across the United States and Canada.

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Episode Highlights:

Michael - 00:00:00: I like to call it collaborative problem solving. Yeah. Collaborative and creative problem solving. And I think that's really where the wins are. If you leverage your team or you leverage the network, you come up with much better ideas and much better solutions and a much better and easier opportunity to implement those solutions because you got more buy-in, more ownership, more accountability, and everybody feels that they're part of the solution. And I think there's a lot of value in that as well.

Sarah - 00:00:36: Welcome to the Unscripted Podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Today, we are going to be talking about how a company with a deep, rich legacy honors that legacy without leaning too much on it. We're going to do that today with Michael Gallen, who is the Director of North America Service at the Coca-Cola Company. It's a company the listeners might've heard of. Welcome to the podcast, Michael. Just a few, yeah. Yeah, when you talk about brand legacy, Coca-Cola has to be one of the most recognized brands in the world.

Michael - 00:01:25: Absolutely. Yeah. We have a proud tradition and legacy and one of the most recognized trademarks in the world. So it's a very recognizable company and we're great to honor that tradition.

Sarah - 00:01:39: Absolutely. And so the conversation, Michael, that you and I are going to have today, it comes up a lot in my conversations with leaders that are in companies that do have a long legacy, especially one that has been successful, one where they've built a lot of brand recognition. And there's this sort of balance of honoring that legacy and leveraging its strengths without allowing it to become a liability by not keeping pace with innovation, by not being willing to change in areas that it would be helpful to change, etc. So Michael and I were together at Field Service East over the summer, and we were sat down to chat, this topic came up and we decided to have a conversation here on the podcast about it. So thank you for being here. Before we get into the topic, just tell everyone a little bit about yourself, your role, your background, whatever you would like to share.

Michael - 00:02:35: First of all, thanks for having me, Sarah. I appreciate our conversations over the last several months. But my name is Michael Gallen. I lead the service operations team for North America. We support all of the food service customers for Coca-Cola in the United States. And we're responsible for service of those activities or those locations, installations, and project activities. I've been with Coca-Cola for over 25 years now and have been in a number of operations roles with Coca-Cola, both on the customer side, but also on the service operations side. And then prior to Coca-Cola, I had the honor of working with another very recognizable brand, the Golden Arches, with McDonald's, where I worked for a food service distribution company. So I've been very fortunate in my career to work for two very recognizable trademarks between McDonald's. And I've been working for a very recognizable trademarks between McDonald's and Coca-Cola. So excited to chat with you today.

Sarah - 00:03:39: Yeah, thank you for being here. So, all right. Now, there's going to be parts of this conversation that I think leaders, like I said, in any business that has this legacy, but then is looking ahead, is going to be able to resonate with. But there's also some things that make Coca-Cola's business, especially the service business and your service operations, unique. So just so our listeners have some context for that, can you give them a lay of the land before we get into some of the things we want to touch on?

Michael - 00:04:08: Sure. So I work for Coca-Cola North America and around the U.S. We have a number of bottling partners that own the local geographies and support all of the local market customers. And at Coca-Cola North America, we support most of your large chain accounts in the food service area. So what's unique about the way that we go to service to support our customers is we don't have any of our own technicians. We leverage our bottling partners that have technicians on the street servicing their customers to also service our customers. So that's the one thing that makes our profile and our network a little bit unique is that we leverage those bottling partners. But not only the bottling partners, but also we have a large group of smaller independent service providers that also fill in the gaps if you will, where sometimes our bottling partners can't get to all of our customers very timely, or if there's a specialized project where we need to leverage a specialized skill set, we have a very broad network that we can plug and play different providers into different activities to make sure that we're supporting our customers in the manner that they need supported, whether it be reactive service, specialized service, installation, project activities, those types of things. So it's become very strategic in how we go to business. After COVID, post-COVID, there's a lot of challenges that have faced the workforce, and we've had to be very flexible on how we support our customers. Where prior to COVID, most of the activities were funneled through our bottling network. And now we've had to flex in different markets where we've had some capacity challenge, some hiring challenges, some retention but we feel we're very well positioned in how we've flexed and added different service providers to our network to, again, make sure that we've got the right service capabilities and capacity to support our customers.

Sarah - 00:06:21: Mm-hmm. Okay. That makes sense. So if I'm understanding correctly, the bottlers are exclusively Coca-Cola partners. And the independent service providers may or may not be working with other companies, but you're leveraging them to fill in, whether it's capacity or skills, to augment the support you have from your bottling partners. Did I understand that correctly? Okay.

Michael - 00:06:47: Yes. And most of our bottlers have a geography, a number of states that they support. So they're regionally scattered throughout the U.S. And then we have some large national providers that we leverage to support us with some national projects.

Sarah - 00:07:02: Mm-hmm.

Michael - 00:07:03: There are company such as IC that has a specialize skill set in frozen beverage and we do the same with coffee as well, where we leverage some specialized service providers in those particular areas that are more specialized based on the equipment that the customer may have in that particular outlet.

Sarah - 00:07:23: Okay. All right. That makes sense. It actually makes me think of a podcast we did a while back. I don't remember the number off the top of my head, but we can put it into the show notes with Whirlpool. And they, a number of years back, made a decision strategically as a business to only go to market and service through their partner network. And we had a really interesting conversation about what that looks like, but also some of the strengths of that model, which it sounds similar to your thinking. Now, That being said, particularly when we're talking about what we're talking about today, this idea of like legacy versus potential liability, it can also complicate things, right? So it can be both, right? And it's just something that as we talk through things today, listeners should keep in mind that is how you go to market from a service perspective. So

Michael - 00:08:16: attending several of the events where we've bumped into each other, I get a lot of questions about our independent and third party service network from companies that have their own technicians. And they're trying to identify how do I augment our current service network with adding potential third parties into our network where maybe they do have their own technicians as company techs. But they're looking to fill in some of the gaps with a third party network. So a lot of folks now post-COVID are looking at more of maybe a hybrid model.

Sarah - 00:08:54: Yeah, absolutely. And it was interesting what stands out in my mind from the episode with Whirlpool is I asked a question around one of the most common concerns of working with any third party service providers, which is. How do you maintain control of the customer experience, the brand experience? And the woman that answered the question said, maybe the issue is trying to have control versus looking at it as a partnership. And it just made me think about what that relationship can be like. And if you focus on the mutual benefit, right, between your regional partners or even your national partners and yourselves, and figure out what works to maximize the mutual benefit, it doesn't have to be this contentious. Tug-of-war type relationship that I think a lot of people still have in their minds when they're probably asking you some of how does it work? How do you do this? How do you keep track of this? So yeah, very interesting, but not what we're here to talk about today. Okay. So as I mentioned in the introduction, when we were together at Field Service East, we sat down and we were just chatting about some of the, I don't want to say pros and cons, but strengths and considerations is the way I would put it, right? Because on one hand when you have a brand with a strong legacy and particularly one that has been successful, there's another side of this conversation for brands that have a legacy, but maybe have a tarnished reputation or haven't had ongoing success, et cetera. This is not the case here, right? So you have this pool of benefit and resource that you want to fully leverage. On the other hand, legacy lends itself to having a lot of practice figuring out what works and streamlining operations and getting things the way you want them, which sometimes can cause resistance to or hesitation to change significantly, which can be challenging, right? So this was the premise of what we chatted about. And as I said to you then and earlier, This is a very common tightrope to walk, right? This is something that I think I could probably name 10 companies off the top of my head that I've had this sort of same conversation with. So to get your perspective and your input on this, first, I want to talk about some of the ways that for Coca-Cola and for probably others, the legacy that you have can be a big advantage to the business and to service specifically. Okay. So I'm just going to mention some of the things that we talked through. The first is brand recognition. So from a service standpoint, how do you feel like that is helpful for you to leverage when you're thinking about the continued service success for the organization.

Michael - 00:12:03: I think the brand recognition gives us a point of entry when our sales folks are in there selling. We do have what we feel are the best brands, the best offering of a beverage portfolio for our customers. We also believe that we have some of the best marketing that's out there. But at the end of the day, if we don't have equipment that is up and operating and helping that operator, that food service operator, making profits and selling beverages, then the best brands in the world and the best marketing are going to fall flat. So we've got to make sure that we've got the right resources to support our operational capability, of which services is one of those pillars, to make sure that we're delivering every single day against what we try to add to our customers, that we can bring you more value as the Coca-Cola company with our bundle. Right. You mentioned brands and marketing and service and equipment and innovation and our distribution network and all those things that help lift up those brands and that marketing so that we are one of the most recognized brands in the world. But more importantly, I think it's that foundation, those foundational. Pillars that really help lift up the brand and the marketing so that we are out there selling each and every day. And it gives us that competitive advantage when it comes to adding more customers to our portfolio, especially in the food service business that we feel is our competitive advantage. But with that comes great privilege to work for Coca-Cola, but also great responsibility to make sure that we're delivering against our promise to our customers around service.

Sarah - 00:13:55: Yeah. Now you talked about service being. The aspect of the relationship or the aspect of the, yeah, the customer experience that really upholds that relationship. And so thinking about what you just said, the brand recognition is great as an entry point, as you mentioned, right? But if you go in with this great brand, these great pitches, sales decks, equipment, innovation, and then something breaks and no one comes to fix it in a timely manner or fix it well, etc. You're not going to be able to uphold that brand recognition. So that's where service comes in. How would you say, what does that look like in terms of that focus on relationship building? And how do you see that as a strength that your legacy has allowed you to sort of play up.

Michael - 00:14:47: So when it comes to the customer side of the business, we have a dedicated team focused against operational support for each one of our large North America customers. On the other side of the fence, which is where I play, we have service operations managers that are dedicated to our service providers. So we've got a relationship with our customer from an operations perspective our team is leveraging our relationship with our service providers. And then that customer ops manager, along with the service ops manager, is really connecting and collaborating on any of those type of opportunities that we might have with a particular customer, whether it's a service escalation, whether it's a new project or brand expansion, or maybe we've just landed a customer and we're working on a conversion program. But the relationship that we have with our customers, with our service network is really foundational, but it's also very collaborative. At the end of the day, we all want to win more customers, but we also want to serve those customers. And the better off our customers are serving our beverages, the more profitable they are, the more profitable we are. We believe that value bundle that we bring to them every day is really what sets us apart.

Sarah - 00:16:16: Yeah. So the way you described it, there's this well-working operating model in place where you maintain some level of interaction with customers directly. But your team specifically is focused on supporting the service partners that you have that are the ones executing on the service for those customers in a way that I know you described is kind of like a well-oiled machine, right? And has allowed you to, you said, consistently over-deliver on service. So can you explain what you mean by that?

Michael - 00:16:51: Yeah, so when it comes to over-delivering on service and service execution, we feel that we invest in class service performance when it comes to our metrics around completion time, fix right first visit, equipment uptime. You think about cost, quality, and speed, those core foundational metrics that we run our business by, we believe we're best in class. But the validation for that is really what we hear from our customers as well. A lot of times we're compared to other providers that are coming in to a restaurant, whether it be plumbing or food service or other service companies that come into those outlets. And we continue to hear that we are delivering world-class, best-class, however you want to phrase it, service levels. And that's really what we continue to focus on with our service partners is maintaining that competitive advantage when it comes to performance around those core deliverables. And more so now than ever with the pressures that are on staffing and food service establishments, more so than ever, they want us to respond quickly, but they also want us to have the right part and get them back up and pouring. The other shift that's happened post-COVID is more business is going through the drive-through now than ever. So that operation of the equipment in the drive-through is more important than ever. And we need to make sure if 90% of their business is going through the drive-through, that we have that equipment up and running when they need it so that they can continue to make profits from our beverage. But when they succeed, we succeed as well.

Sarah - 00:18:42: And that was the final piece I want to talk about. You just mentioned in passing there, which is. The role of having really strong marketing support because I'm sure that's applicable in a number of different ways, but it's also possible because of the success and the legacy of the brand, right? There are a lot of companies that are newer entrants to the market, not in your space, but just in general, or they are, you know, historically focused elsewhere, and now they're focused on growing service that don't have a lot of that support, at least to start, and that can be challenging. So you have that. What I wanted to point out is, again, that the way that collaboration takes place, but also how much of that is focused on insights that help both Coca-Cola and your service partners and your customers understand. Consumption, usage, trends, right? So that was one of the things we talked about. And I think that's really important to mention because those insights are very valuable to all three of those parties involved. Yeah. And that's just, it's a I think it sounds like it's a pretty sophisticated function that not everyone has. So that's why I just wanted to make sure we touched on that in the sort of strengths category.

Michael - 00:20:07: Yeah. If you think about the freestyle equipment that we have, that offers over 100 different beverages. And that really leverages the insights that you mentioned from consumers, right? So now we're able to provide a huge offering of different beverages. And based on consumption and usage at different concepts, we can create different marketing programs that are individual to either a chain location. We're able to create a customized beverage for the demographic that may be going into that particular establishment. Or on the flip side, if we see a particular blend of beverage, a particular recipe that consumers are dispensing from the freestyle. We've actually gone ahead and produced a bottle can package to have that available in a prepackaged form because that's what customers are wanting. So that piece of equipment has been huge for us from a marketing asset, a beverage innovation lab, if you will, in many of our customer outlets. But the other thing is it provides the consumer so many more options now than just your traditional eight head, eight valve fountain dispenser. So we've really leveraged that equipment platform in many different ways, but definitely on the consumption side and the insight side. And then leverage that with our customers.

Sarah - 00:21:41: Yeah. Okay, so these are all great things. And I want to shift gears and talk about some of the aspects where there could be question marks of, okay, like, and this isn't, there's no, to be clear to the listeners, these are not questions we have answers to. It's not like you're saying definitively, I think this is a risk, or I think this is an area of concern. It's more so. I think this healthy exercise of when you're in a company that has this type of legacy and has things working well to be asking these questions so they aren't just in the flow and not thinking about it. Because I think what we're really talking about here is there's areas where I'm sure you could revisit. You said you want to maintain the competitive advantage that you have through your service. So what that brings to mind for me is this idea of incremental improvement to maintain this success that you have. I think where the questions come in more is when we start to think about more disruptive innovation, right? Because that's where you get into not just tweaking or incrementally improving what's already working, but where you start to reflect on, okay, are there areas where we should make a more wholesale change and what would that look like? And I think those are important questions for anyone in any business, but particularly a business with a deep legacy to be asking. So one of the things you said is the business model has essentially been the same for 20 plus years, and it works really well. And I think that in and of itself is the potential challenge, right? Because when you have something that is a well-oiled machine, the inclination is never going to be to change it up or to try something completely different. But we know that at times that type of disruptive innovation can be valuable. So how do you sort of look at this question and reflect on how much you maintain that success versus how much you consider? When it might be time to do something more disruptive or different.

Michael - 00:24:01: Yeah, I think that's a great question. And it's a challenging opportunity, right? When you look at the way our service network is set up, because we have 11 large franchise bottlers, if you will, then we have another collection of smaller bottlers that have smaller territories, and then our independent network. And when you talk about something disruptive to the service organization, that's a lot of different entities that you've got to gain buy-in, but also develop a collaborative plan to get folks on board, which presents its own challenges. But one of the things that I think we try to do here at Coca-Cola is not those major disruptive activities, like that we need to revamp something totally, but what are the small components within different processes, different functions that we can make improvements. One of the areas that we're focusing on right now is AI, right? How can we use AI to improve the service that we provide to our customers ultimately? But also, how can we use it to support our service network? Our service network is facing many challenges when it comes to staffing. No longer do we have a very seasoned workforce. We've got a very green workforce, a lot of newer technicians. And one of the things that we're trying to leverage AI is to be able to provide that training information, that training on the job, if you will, through AI, whether it be a search by the technician when they're on site or providing predictive information based on customer equipment, service history, parts usage. We're able to take that data and then provide information to the technician to say, based on all of these factors, these are the most likely parts that are needed. And this is the troubleshooting steps needed to be taken to get that customer back up and running. And we're trying to do small disruptions in different areas so that we can continue to move the needle and move that big ship of over 600 different service providers to improve our service level to our customers.

Sarah - 00:26:31: Yeah. I think that makes sense. And I think reflecting on the way the business is structured, and you mentioned that your team specifically is supporting the partners that are delivering service. So I guess I'm thinking about two things. I think what you just described makes perfect sense. It isn't an area of complacency. It's an area of strategic continuous improvement, right? I think where the opportunities for more disruptive change could come from would be the direct line to the customers. I would always argue that is the best source of insight to indicate that there needs to be a bigger change, right?

Michael - 00:27:16: Sure.

Sarah - 00:27:16: And I think ultimately, if you have service execution that is consistently overachieving your set standards and you have high customer satisfaction. There isn't really an argument for disruption unless the company as a whole started to look at shifting the business model, right? Which is a completely different conversation. But if you were to start to hear from customers, like we would rather just pay a monthly subscription and that sort of thing. That being said, that's not gonna be a decision that takes place in your department specifically because you're focused on supporting the execution of the service model that's already in place, if that makes sense. But I think those are some of the things that it's really more making sure that you are maintaining that. Interaction with customers so that you start to sense, okay, maybe there would be benefit in doing this thing we haven't done before. So yeah, that makes sense.

Michael - 00:28:16: And we're hearing a little bit of that, Sarah. When I talked about comparing us to other companies, there are other companies that do really good work and have really good performance levels. And they're doing things that are innovative because they're a smaller company and they can change quicker and they can try things and it fails and then they can try something different. But some of the things that we hear from customers is we would need a higher level of service, right? Is there a better best? Is there a particular service level that from a response time perspective that you would guarantee service and things of those natures? And I think there's certainly an opportunity for that. I don't think it's widespread at this point. And the other thing I would say is because our metrics are relatively high in most of those categories, there's not a significant need for it. But when we are compared against other providers, those are some of the types of things that do come up. From a disruption perspective, that would definitely be disruptive. But the other thing I think of is it would also be an opportunity for potentially a revenue opportunity that we could charge more for that particular service level than what we're doing today. Because right now we're cost recovery, we're cost neutral, for the most part, against all the different categories for service, whether it be service execution, install parts, our own training department that we use to help train technicians in the field. All of that is pretty much cost neutral. And our customers don't necessarily feel the expense when it comes to service.

Sarah - 00:30:04: Yeah, that makes sense. And I agree. I think that that's a whole business model conversation, not a service delivery model conversation. And if you, as long as you're listening and understanding, like you said, is this getting more widespread? Should we think about what this could look like? Yeah, that makes sense. What about, we talked a little bit about this. You mentioned from a service provider perspective, it's become harder to staff, less experience, et cetera. Is there anything you kind of reflect on that maybe needs to change in how you work with those, providers as a result of the talent landscape as it is today?

Michael - 00:30:48: Yeah, as I mentioned earlier, we've added over 60 new providers into the service network just to fill in those gaps of where we have providers that are struggling with either hiring or retention, or maybe technicians were furloughed during COVID and they've had a hard time bringing technicians back. So we've had to be very strategic post-COVID to build our network so that we have the right capacity, the right capability to service our customers' needs. And that's probably the biggest challenge for us. Because our model is a little bit different, right? When it comes to our cost structure and labor rates and what we pay service providers, it's a little different, right? We're not necessarily paying service providers the street rate. And therefore, that can become a little bit challenging when you're trying to bring new people into the network. If there's a difference in what they're able to charge their customers versus what I may be paying them for service. But there's also a lot of other benefits that come with having Coca-Cola as part of their service portfolio. So there's definitely a balance there. But I would say that's the biggest challenge for us is making sure that we have the right providers providing the right service for our customers. And we still have markets where we challenge. We have challenges, to be quite honest with you. And we're still looking to expand and or help other companies expand into new geographies and stand up technicians in different areas.

Sarah - 00:32:32: Yeah.

Michael - 00:32:32: But that's harder to do. It's obviously much easier to find a company that has techs in bands with parts in bands and be able to add our service on top of that.

Sarah - 00:32:44: Yeah.

Michael - 00:32:45: There's a mutual benefit versus asking someone to go to a new geography and try to stand up from ground zero. So,

Sarah - 00:32:51: yeah.

Michael - 00:32:52: That's our biggest challenge.

Sarah - 00:32:54: Yeah, which then brings us back to the point you made earlier about another area of continued reflection on change is where can we add in technology to help alleviate some of that burden? So you obviously aren't going to introduce AI to the extent that you don't need those technicians. But if you can do so in a way that helps support technicians that don't have the same level of experience or are newer to service or newer to this industry, it just helps take a little bit of that pressure off, which makes sense.

Michael - 00:33:27: The other area where we try to reduce the calls that are going into the field is we have probably over 80 in-house senior technicians, call them the my co-techs, that are able to support our customers over the phone and or our field technicians where they need support, trying to reduce that. That truck roll by supporting customers over the phone and making sure that we can get their equipment back up and running, or if it's what we call a nuisance call and some we can ship out a small part and have them back up and running a lot quicker, that benefits everybody in the system and eliminates a truck roll. And therefore, we're trying to take calls out of the system, especially where we have capacity concerns.

Sarah - 00:34:12: Yeah, that makes sense. So talking about all of this. We get back to this fundamental question of how much do you agree with the mentality of if it ain't broke, don't fix it or not. So. Where do you feel you land on finding that right balance?

Michael - 00:34:35: So that's a great question. I think there's always an opportunity for continuous improvement. Even if you're delivering the metrics, there's also always underlying contributing factors, some low hanging fruit that you can take out of your process. One of the areas where we continue to have opportunity with customers and service providers is what we call dry runs, right? So if you're thinking about an install at a new location and we go to the location, we dispatch an install team, we have equipment on the truck, and we get there. And for whatever reason, that customer is truly not ready for an installation. And I think that's an example where there's little opportunities within different aspects of our business and how we can continue to approve and take costs out of the system, but also make that those technicians more productive. That ownership is on us, not the service providers, because we're ultimately paying them to show up there. But that's an area where we've got a lot of focus. It's a frustration point for our service network. It adds additional costs to the system. But I think if you ever get complacent in what you're delivering and trying to keep in touch with what the customer is looking for, that's where you start to fall behind. I don't want to say we did that, but I feel we got stagnant for a little bit. And now we're back on track to making sure that we've got a competitive advantage and that we're delivering against our customers' needs and expectations and adding value for our customers, which is most important for them. But again, when they win, we win. And we want to be their best partner in helping them grow their business. And when they grow their business, we grow our business.

Sarah - 00:36:31: Yeah, I think there's so much benefit in the practice of just asking yourself these questions, right? You don't have to have all of the answers, but reflecting on these things, like you said, looking for, okay, we just did this. What's the next pain point we can address? What's the next problem we can solve? What's the next? Area of value we can explore, right? Like just slow and steady going after what's the next thing, what's the next thing instead of just getting comfortable, I think is the difference that we're talking about. I recently did a podcast with Tim Spencer and he talked about that idea of the way that he's introduced a lot of innovation into the different companies he's worked in is just by constantly asking that question. Okay, we solved that problem. What's the next problem? What's the next pain point? What's the next problem? And if the solution is incremental. That's where it will lead you. If the solution requires something bigger or more, that's where it will lead you. But no one needs to disrupt just for the sake of disruption. It's just about constantly asking the questions of what do our customers need? What do our service providers need? What do we need to do next? What problem is there to solve next? That will get you where you need to go.

Michael - 00:37:50: Sure.

Sarah - 00:37:51: Yeah.

Michael - 00:37:51: And the other thing I think, and I think Tim mentioned it in his podcast, right, is that he doesn't have all the answers. I don't have. We've got a vast network of folks that have been in this service business for a very long time, a lot of successful independent service providers that have leadership in this food service space. How do we leverage those collective ideas and collaborate so that we're creating the best solutions and it's not one person that comes up with an idea and tries to force it into the system where it maybe doesn't fit, but more of that collaborative approach. I like to call it collaborative problem solving.

Sarah - 00:38:35: Yeah.

Michael - 00:38:36: Collaborative and creative problem solving. And I think that's really where the wins are. You leverage your team or you leverage the network, you come up with much better ideas and much better solutions. And a much better and easier opportunity to implement those solutions because you got more buy-in, more ownership, more accountability, and everybody feels that they're part of the solution. And I think there's a lot of value in that as well.

Sarah - 00:39:02: Absolutely. Makes sense. Michael, in your 25 years at Coca-Cola, what would you say is the biggest lesson you've learned?

Michael - 00:39:11: I think the the biggest lesson that I've learned in 25 years at Coca-Cola has really been about learning from other people and asking a lot of questions and having that ability to want to learn, but also leveraging relationships. We feel that we've got a lot of great people that work at Coca-Cola and leveraging those relationships has really, it's been humbling for me but it's also been something that has helped me in my career is being true to who you are, wanting to learn and then building your own relationships with other people and then trying to pass those things along to the next generation. So I'm excited about what I've learned, where we're at today, where I think we're going, the support of our service network and our bottling partners. So it's been a real privilege for me to be at Coca-Cola for over 25 years, but relationship building and collaboration, I would say would be the biggest thing that I really value about working at Coca-Cola.

Sarah - 00:40:20: Yeah, I always say, especially in this day and age, when you talk to someone who's been with a company for 10 years, 15 years, 20 years, 25 years, that it's a good organization that has given them opportunities to learn and grow and feel fulfilled. Otherwise, people don't stay in one place that long anymore. So I think that's great. Really appreciate you coming on, Michael, and sharing your thoughts and your perspective with us. So thank you very much.

Michael - 00:40:50: Thank you, sir. I appreciate it.

Sarah - 00:40:52: You can find more by visiting the home of the Unscripted podcast at https://futureoffieldserviceref.ifs.com. We will put in the show notes the links to the Whirlpool episode that I referenced, as well as the episode with Tim Spencer. So keep an eye out for those. The podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more at futureoffieldserviceref.ifs.com. As always, thank you for listening.

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Recognizing Leadership in Service: The Standout 50 Report

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Recognizing Leadership in Service: The Standout 50 Report

Episode 287

In this episode of the Unscripted podcast, host Sarah Nicastro reveals the 1st edition of the Future of Field Service Standout 50 Leaders, celebrating exceptional service leaders who drive innovation and customer-centric strategies in the industry. Sarah highlights the evolving service delivery landscape and the crucial and often behind-the-scenes roles these leaders play in motivating teams and navigating modern business challenges. With insights from a panel of industry experts, she discusses the critical traits of the Standout 50. She announces an upcoming report featuring valuable data on people, processes, and technology in the service sector. Join Sarah as she recognizes these impactful leaders and shares how to stay updated on their findings!

Sarah Nicastro is a passionate advocate for the power of human connection and service evolution. Since 2008 she first stumbled into the field service industry, she has been captivated by the transformation of service from a cost center to a strategic driver of innovation and growth. Through meaningful conversations with business leaders, Sarah uncovers insights that inspire and inform others. Her mission is to prove that it’s possible to love family, work, and the world simultaneously while building a community that shares knowledge, forms lasting relationships and creates a positive impact.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Also, subscribe to our newsletter right here.

Episode Highlights:

Sarah - 00:00:00: It brings me great pleasure to announce this list today because I care so much about this community and have such a deep respect for the hard work that service leaders are doing to impact their teams, their customers, and to bring their businesses and the industry as a whole forward. The thing about service is it's most effective when it isn't seen or heard, when it happens seamlessly and invisibly. This creates a challenge because there's a tremendous amount of work that goes into service. And it's not only incredibly important, but it quite literally keeps the world running. However, it's something that often goes unrecognized.

Welcome to the UNSCRIPTED Podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Today is a very exciting day because we are announcing the first ever Future of Field Service Standout 50 Leaders. That was a mouthful. This is an award that we created to be able to recognize and acknowledge some of the hard work that leaders within our community and the broader service community are doing. It brings me great pleasure to announce this list today because I care so much about this community and have such a deep respect for the hard work that service leaders are doing to impact their teams, their customers, and to bring their businesses and the industry as a whole forward. The thing about service is it's most effective when it isn't seen or heard, when it happens seamlessly and invisibly. This creates a challenge because there's a tremendous amount of work that goes into service. And it's not only incredibly important, but it quite literally keeps the world running. However, it's something that often goes unrecognized.

With the power of today's technologies, companies are evolving how they offer service. They're moving beyond transactional and break-fix service models to be more customer-centric, to deliver outcomes-based service and create new revenue streams and change their business models. As the possibilities of how to serve customers vastly expands, so too does what service can mean to the business. It's a key brand experience. It's a powerful competitive differentiator. It can be a substantial growth opportunity and so much more. While it is an exciting time for service, It also signifies an immense amount of change. Some companies are enthusiastic about the opportunity this presents, and others are still working to determine exactly what role service plays in their broader business landscape. This means that the role of today's service leader is tremendously complex. It means balancing the need to meet the demands of today's business while working toward creating the business of the future. It requires a deep customer understanding, the ability to attract and motivate talent, the creativity to innovate, but also the patience to manage change, and the need to balance initiatives for both the short-term and the long-term, all while advocating for the importance and the role of service within their businesses.

So these leaders do a whole lot. We see that firsthand in all of the conversations that we're fortunate to have here on this on this podcast, the folks were able to meet at the Future of Field Service live events. And as I said, I've been in one form or another engaging with this community for more than 16 years and care a lot about making sure that the hard work these folks are doing is acknowledged and recognized. One of the ways that we decided to do that this year was launching this Standout 50 Leadership Initiative. We held open nominations in June and July on the Future of Field Service website, and the leaders were nominated by colleagues, by peers, by industry connections, etc. We had a panel of judges that included myself, Dot Minahan, who spent over 30 years with Otis Elevator and now is with the National Elevator Industry, John Carroll, who heads the Service Council, and Professor Tim Baines, who heads the Advanced Services Group at Aston Business School in the UK. So the four of us came together and sifted through all of the nominations and did the hard work of landing on the 50 leaders, that we are announcing today as the Standout 50. There's, of course, not enough time to touch on all of the incredible traits that were brought up when we read through the nominations for these leaders and those that ultimately weren't selected. But just to share a couple of examples, these individuals, they don't sacrifice innovation to meet immediate needs. So this is, of course, a balancing act. But we need leaders in roles today that are not just completely caught up in what the next immediate need is. They're also finding ways to carve out time, energy, resource, and building teams that are able to also think about what will make the business successful in the future. They evangelize the importance of service within their businesses. As I mentioned earlier, service is often most appreciated when it is invisible. And this is true from a customer perspective. The less friction, the more, seamless peace of mind you can provide, the better. But also within organizations, often service, particularly frontline resources, aren't recognized and acknowledged the way that other functions of the business are. Service leaders play this important role of making sure the business understands the potential of service and what it can represent, but also the incredible impact of its teams and the critical role that they play in what the business does. They're bold. They're not afraid to speak out on topics and issues that are relevant and important today. They aren't afraid to think outside of the box. They aren't protecting the status quo at all costs. They look for ways to think differently, to be creative, to ask questions, and to be curious. They put their teams first because they care and because they know that doing so will create the best customer experience. I'll share a bit later an initiative we have worked on with the leaders who were awarded the Standout 50 award. And we talked with them about employee engagement and not only its importance, but what factors they think are critical in building a good culture and having engaged employees and just thinking through some of the responses and the anecdotes that were shared, it's clear how much these leaders value their teams as human beings and as an important part in the success of their function and their businesses. They prioritize customer intimacy. I think standout service leaders understand that the best source of inspiration for innovation comes from customers themselves and understanding, their businesses deeply, understanding what matters to them, understanding what their challenges are, what their opportunities are. And they make sure that this is a priority for them and their teams. They harness the power of modern technology. They understand that it's critical to work smarter versus harder today. In fact, it's likely impossible to keep pace if you are trying to just work hard enough to evolve without really creating a solid strategy around leveraging, things like AI and automation to streamline operations. And to look for ways to change service delivery and evolve, the customer value proposition. They focus on creating inclusive environments, they are not interested in diversity as checkbox exercise. But rather, they truly value, having a range of experiences skills opinions perspectives, and they know that doing so and giving those people a safe space to contribute and making sure everyone feels part of the, not only the team, but the broader business objectives is the best way to succeed. They're authentic, they're humble, and they are continually learning and growing. These are folks that are willing to reflect on what's working and what isn't, even within their own leadership styles. They are engaging with peers and with the broader service community to understand best practices and trends. They're listening to their teams, and they're seeking to understand, and they are not being complacent, not only within their business, but within themselves.

So those are just a few things that I think, are notable about standout service leaders today and are standout 50. So I'm not going to take the time here to read all 50 names aloud, because I think that would probably be the point in this podcast where people log off, but we will make sure that we insert the graphic with all 50 leaders on the page for this podcast on our website. If you're listening to this on a podcast platform, you can simply visit futureoffieldserviceref.ifs.com. And take a look at the standout 50 leaders. As we make the official announcement today, I just wanted to take this time here on the podcast to reflect on why we created this initiative. Also to thank the future of field service team. This initiative created a lot of extra work on top of our regular content to fit in. And we took that on gladly because we are honored to be able to have a way to, recognize these folks, but the team does deserve a huge thank you. And most importantly, to congratulate the leaders who were recognized as well as all who were nominated for their amazing impact. So please join me in congratulating the first ever Future of Field Service Standout 50 for work well done. I also wanted to share, as I alluded to earlier, that we have taken the opportunity to work with the Standout 50 on a report where we are compiling some of their insights.

So I wanted to sort of take this moment in time to not only acknowledge and recognize these leaders, but also to share some of their perspectives with our audience. I think it's really interesting to sort of try and peek inside of the minds of leaders who were nominated as Standout, as special by their peers and by their colleagues to see what their thoughts are on some of the biggest trends and themes and challenges today. So we created this report in three parts, people, process, and technology, because over the years, as I've interviewed leaders on service transformation, those are sort of the three pillars, that people commonly refer to as critical in that journey. So we took the opportunity to put together a survey in each of those categories. So with some questions around themes related to people, to process, to technology, participation in the survey was optional. So leaders aren't being named in terms of who contributed or what quotes came from which individual. It was optional and anonymous so that they felt they could share honestly, but we've compiled their insights, both the results of the survey from a quantitative perspective, but also anecdotally and reflected some of our own opinions on what we found and what came out of that was interesting to myself and what I think might be interesting to you all and the broader community. So it's a report that will be up on the website in the next week or so. So please keep an eye out for that. And we will certainly be sharing on our social media when. It's finalized and when it's published, there was so much great content that it was impossible to fit it all into that report. So I will also be doing a series of articles for Future of Field Service, with some of the anecdotes and insights that didn't fit into the full length report. So keep an eye out for those as well.

Once again, huge congratulations to the Standout 50. I am honored to be able to recognize each of you and the effort that you put in. But also the people you are. So congratulations. And please visit futureoffieldserviceref.ifs.com to see the full list of the Standout 50 and also to keep an eye out for the research piece that will be coming out in the next week or so. You can find all of that and more at futureoffieldserviceref.ifs.com. Also, be sure if you aren't already to follow us on LinkedIn. The podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more at ifs.com. As always. Thank you for listening.

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Leadership Principles to Create Impact in Today’s Service Landscape (and Beyond)

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Leadership Principles to Create Impact in Today’s Service Landscape (and Beyond)

Episode 286

In this episode of the Unscripted podcast, host Sarah Nicastro welcomes back Roy Dockery, Author of The Art of Leading, for a discussion filmed at Future of Field Service Live in Stockholm on what leadership traits do (and don’t) create impact. Since this discussion, Roy has also taken the role of the Director of Field Service Research at TSIA.

Roy stands out as a transformative leader in the service sector, keynote speaker, and creator of an innovative leadership model based on truth, love, and empathy to enhance impact. His background as a millennial executive and former military personnel has trained him to effectively manage diverse, cross-generational teams across various industries.

Through his book, "The Art of Leading: Truth, Love and Empathy in Action," Roy shares this model with 13 fundamental principles, providing real examples of their application. He was also recognized as one of Hot Topic's top 100 Service Visionaries by a panel of global industry experts.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Also, subscribe to our newsletter right here.

Episode Highlights:

Roy - 00:00:00: One of the reasons I lean towards love is because I've worked around people for the last 15 years who love what they do. And as a leader and everyone who's ever done a ride along, right, like there's just something different you feel in field service. But it's because they actually love their job. So when I moved into management, I'm like, they deserve somebody that loves them as much as they love their job. Right. So like I need to love their job, but I also need to love them. So it kind of became a language that I use because it's what people in the field say. Right. Like people in service. It's not the income. They're normally some of the lowest paid people in the company. It's not the recognition because they're not getting any recognition. Right. It's not the customers. 90 percent of the time they're talking to angry people. They genuinely love what they do because they enjoy serving people. And so as a leader of people who serve like the best way for me to serve them is by loving them as well. And when I say love, I'm talking about like I want the best for them as human beings.

Sarah - 00:01:01: Hello, welcome to the Unscripted Podcast, where you'll find discussions on what matters most in service, leadership, and business transformation. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Let's jump in. Okay, so welcome back, everyone. Half of the room had an opportunity already to meet Roy, but the other half has yet to spend some time with you. So why don't you go ahead and introduce yourself, tell everyone a bit about your background and what you've done recently, and then we'll get into it.

Roy - 00:01:30: Sure. So my name is Roy Dockery. I'm from the U.S. I live in an area, a small town called Whitsitt, North Carolina. So not jet lag, but did about eight and a half miles walking yesterday. So I think that helped me acclimate to the time difference. But been in field service since I got out of the military in 2010. So I've worked in transport automation, pharmacy robotics, autonomous mobile robots, and like automated packaging systems and things of that nature. And also spent the last two years in kind of a public safety security system. So license plate readers, gunshot detection systems, and things of that nature as well. But always in a field service leadership role. I've been in service leadership the majority of my life. I mean, assistant. Managed a pizza place when I was 17 years old. Owned and operated a restaurant in my 20s. So I've always kind of been in service and people leadership in general. Like in my personal life, I do a lot of counseling and mentoring and things of that nature as well. So that's what kind of put me on a path of leadership in general, outside of just work and field service. But as I was telling the team, I kind of decided a long time ago that I think I really enjoy leading people. So like that's the path that I took, even though I have a very technical background. I have a degree in nuclear engineering. I have a degree in information technology. I'm in a master's degree and a bunch of other stuff. So I went a very educational technical path. But then when I actually started working, I realized what I enjoy doing more than the technical stuff was actually leading people. So that's what I've done for the last 10 years.

Sarah - 00:02:59: Okay. Now the book came out a couple of months ago. Yes. Can you share with everyone sort of what prompted you to write the book?

Roy - 00:03:09: Yeah. So as someone that's been in leadership, one of the challenges that I had is that I've never really had a professional mentor. It seems weird. I'm an anomaly in my industry in the US for a variety of reasons, age, race, geography. So I've never really had a professional mentor. But for the majority of my career, I've mentored a lot of people. I've mentored a lot of people in service, outside of service, everything. I have mentees who are CEOs. I have mentees who are priests. I have mentees who are full-time music artists. I have mentees who are YouTube personalities and things of that nature. And so mentoring people over the years, and a lot of them, it always kind of came down to the same principle was like, how do I become a better person and how do I become a better leader? And so with that, over the last couple of years, I've been mentoring a cohort of probably over 50 people, and I have a podcast and some other things. And so I started with actually a series on my podcast that's just talking about leadership. So I walked through 13 principles that I thought were essential to being a leader in the way that we behave, the way that we engage with people, the way that we manage and delegate and deal with responsibility and accountability. And so I did the videos because I'm mentoring 50-something people who keep asking me the same question. Even though they come from different backgrounds, they have different professions. And so made the videos, people were like, okay, well, we need more information. Then I was like, all right. So then I wrote a book and I released the book. And then almost every mentees have read the book and they're like, okay, we still need more information, which led me to have to build an online course that gives them even more information and 95 lessons for them to walk through. But that's what it came out of. It came out of mentoring people. And when it came down to it, when I distilled all of the different experiences and people that I was mentoring, it all came down to they were trying to be more effective leaders, whether that was at work, in their personal lives, with their personal goals or their ambitions. So that's why I wrote the book on the art of leading and it was just hard for me. A couple of people mentioned it in their extra hour a day. I love reading, right? I've spent 12 years of my career traveling 50 to 75% of the time. Like on average, I was reading 75 to 100 books a year. But whenever somebody would ask me for a recommendation for a book to read, I could never give them one book. I always had to recommend like 17 books for somebody to read on leadership, depending on who they were. And there's a list of, and I know Sarah's read it, there's a list of books in the back of the book that if I had to give somebody a recommendation, but it's 20 plus books so I said, I enjoy writing. So I'm like, I'm going to write one book that in my mind can actually take a lot of different lessons and distill it down into one book so people don't have to go buy 25 of them.

Sarah - 00:05:48: Okay. So one of the things that you cover early in the book is that you view love as a fundamental element that can empower you to excel in leadership and drive remarkable outcomes. So can you talk about the importance of love in leadership or the role of it?

Roy - 00:06:07: Yeah. And I know I had a podcast on it. Love is a very misunderstood term because we look at love love romantically all of the time. And I was just sitting, I was thinking today, I saw the list of questions. One of the reasons I lean towards love is because I've worked around people for the last 15 years who love what they do. And as a leader and everyone who's ever done a ride along, right? Like there's just something different you feel in field service, but it's because they actually love their job. So when I moved into management, I'm like, they deserve somebody that loves them as much as they love their job. Right? So like, I need to love their job, but I also need to love them. So it kind of became a language that I use because it's what people in the field say, right? Like people in service, it's not the income. They're normally some of the lowest paid people in the company. It's not the recognition because they're not getting any recognition, right? It's not the customers. 90% of the time they're talking to angry people. They genuinely love what they do because they enjoy serving people. And so as a leader of people who serve, like the best way for me to serve them is by loving them as well. And when I say love, I'm talking about like, I want the best for them as human beings. Right? Like that's what that is. Like I want the best for you. And sometimes the best for you isn't over time. It might not be a promotion. It could be discipline. It could be development, just kind of like with our children or loved ones. That's why I kind of put it in that category because I think what we've done in a lot of our companies is we build our companies around who we like. We build our teams around who we like, right? Like the person that we like gets promoted. The person that we like gets recognized. But then what's weird is that relationship between the employees and the manager, the person that the manager or the executive likes, nobody else likes. And the reason you like each other is because you have similar interests. Like you're both into the same sport or you went to the same school where I think you level the playing field when it's like, look, I love everyone who works for me, whether I like you or not, right? So whether we get along or have similar interests or come from same backgrounds, like I owe every person that I lead the same amount of attention, the same amount of respect and the same amount of care. And when you lead, and I think that's fundamental to the way that you lead because we're all biased if we're honest, right? We're all biased to a certain regard. So if we don't base our leadership style off of something that actually equalizes the people that we're engaging with, we're going to wind up leaning towards and leading the people that we like more than the other people that we don't have that like initial connection with.

Sarah - 00:08:37: Yeah. So that leads me to a quote I want to share from the book where you are tying the importance of love to equity, right? So you say, equity has become a popular term, but I truly believe that love is the only true path to equity. Tolerance and inclusion can easily become prisons for those in the out group because to be given, access without true consideration is a cruel illusion. Can you talk a little bit about what that means?

Roy - 00:09:07: Yeah. And I think it kind of goes a little bit to my previous statement about the people that you like. Right. Like we want diversity. So we diversify the table. Right. I was just talking over lunch like field service doesn't have a lot of women. Right. Like in America and Sarah knows field service is mostly older white men. I am one of like three African-American vice presidents in field service in all of America. So like 10 years ago, Sarah was one of like two women and I was like one of two African-Americans like in an event that had four or five hundred people at it. So from a diversity perspective, if you don't actually care about the people you invite to the table, then you don't give them a voice. So, right. I checked the box because I added more women to the leadership team. I checked the box because I added more minorities to the leadership team or I allowed them in the room. But the voices that are speaking are the same. Right. So and that's why I say to give someone access. And I have a conversation. I think it's probably still on my YouTube channel as well. But there is a difference between using diversity as a token or allowing a diverse person to be a totem. Right. And that's like totem. So like in Native American folklore, totems are used to tell stories. Right. So when you look at them, they're like every section of the totem tells a story where like a token is just access. Right. You think about before everything was digital. You needed a token to get on the train. Right. Like so a token just gets you in and that's it. And so what I would tell a lot of people that I mentor is that like if you feel like all you got was access, then you're probably a token. They just let you in a room, but they don't let you speak. And your diversity isn't changing the story. Right. Because if I'm a totem, that means I'm a new layer within the organization. But that also means I should change the story. So like if you are only given access and you're not actually allowed to change the story. It's cruel because one, you're being publicly lauded as diversity, but privately, you just feel like you're there. Right. And I've been in that room in a variety of situations. Right. Like, you know, me and Sir and I were just talking. I think I've spoke at every technology conference in field service on the topic of diversity. I am not an expert.

Sarah - 00:11:22: On the last day.

Roy - 00:11:22: On the last day. And it's on the last day when everyone's flying out. But it's like people are just like, Roy, can you speak on diversity? Like. I don't have a degree in diversity, right? But like I am diversity, like just in existing, but I always try to expand that conversation and make it broader. And I have the patience to deal with it because I mentor people. But I think that's the challenge. Like a lot of times, like I said, we want to diversify, like if to use an illustration and I do a lot of this, it's like adding chairs to a table, but not adding microphones. So, right, if I was sitting at a table and everybody had a microphone, but then I add a table to the end and I add a chair to the end, but they don't have a microphone. So it's like it looks like they're in the room, but they don't have equal voice. And I don't think that's fair. And I think that's why, at least in the U.S., you're getting a lot of pushback on DEI programs because a lot of them gave access, but it didn't actually fundamentally change the organization. Right. So you hired different people, but then there was no innovation. There was no true benefit from diversity because people weren't given a voice. They were only given a seat.

Sarah - 00:12:26: And I think we talked about this a little bit in the breakout that I was in earlier. But, you know, people that are focusing on that because it's a checkbox exercise, right, is kind of what we're talking about. Whereas companies that really understand the value of people want to focus more on the inclusion and understanding and giving everyone that voice. And I like the point you make that as a leader, you don't have to like everyone equally, but you need to love everyone equally to make sure that you are being fair to your teams. Okay, so the next thing I want to talk about is authenticity. Okay, so you talk about how authenticity can unleash potential. So I'm going to share another quote. And it says, when you truly love and respect the authentic version of yourself, you grow to have a greater appreciation for the unique authenticity of others. Authenticity serves as an inspiration for others to do the same, leading to a collective unleashing of potential. Why do you think some leaders struggle with showing up authentically in their roles?

Roy - 00:13:34: I think the primary thing is that it's never really been exemplified, right? We talk about it, but for the most part, most of us were raised in cultures and traditions where we're told to compartmentalize, right? I've got my personal life. I've got my work life. But even within your personal life, you have pockets in your personal life, right? So those that are married, you've got the friends that you have with your spouse, but then you have your own friends, which is almost like a separate group, right? So I think we naturally are inclined to put things in boxes. And then when we show up to work, we show up to work in our work box. But there are skills and behaviors and things that we bring to the table that may not be specifically related to our job, but because it's a part of who we are, we can have influence in that area. Right. And so in the book, I talk about the fact that, like, I believe that everyone with influence is a leader and everyone has influence. So everyone is a leader in that regard. And you may not have a leadership role specifically within the organization, but it doesn't make you a leader. But the reason and what I tell my mentees all the time, and they're always struggling with work, right? They're burned out. And so and I remember I said it to one of my mentees and it stuck with me as well. I said, if only half of you shows up to work, why are you surprised that your job is twice as hard? So if you're a creative person, but only the analytical part of you shows up at work, then you're leaving an entire part of yourself at home because you don't think it's applicable or vice versa, right? You're a marketing person, but you can also do logistics and you're structured. But like you leave that part of your like we turn that part of our brains off or, you know, you're a people person, but you're not an extrovert. So then like at work and you're an individual contributor, so you don't interact much, but you could actually have a lot of influence and you can engage with people because I do a lot of public speaking. And Sarah knows like Sarah and I, neither one of us are extroverts. I'm a social introvert. I can socialize. I prefer not to write. I would rather go read a book in silence. But just because I can interact like. People assume and because I can be charismatic when I want to, people assume I'm extroverted. I'm not like doing this drains my energy. Right. But I think that's one of the challenges. So when you show up authentically and we learn that it doesn't matter where the skill came from, where the experience came from, like we show up in our totality. So when I'm in a meeting, even if we're having a meeting about something service related, like I've done sound engineering for 17 years. Right. I've organized my own events through a nonprofit that I own. So like I can speak to event planning, even though I'm the vice president of service. Right. I can speak to creative writing and marketing, even though that is not my job. It actually, it keeps me awake in a meeting, right? Because I can engage and interact in different ways with things that may not specifically be my role. But I'm authentically there. Like if I'm artistic, even though my job is technical, I can weigh in on artistic things other than kind of shutting myself down. And I think it allows you to have more access to more of a diversity of thinking right? And kind of seeking that feedback from different people. But you have to establish a culture and you have to exemplify what it looks like to show up and not just show up in the job title in the job description that you have. Again, I go back to love. If I love your entirety as a person, I understand you're a technician, but who else are you? I understand Electrolux. I know you work on appliances, but what else do you actually like to do? Because you'll talk to a technician. I had a technician who worked on mechanical systems at my company, Swisslog, but he built computers in his free time, had taught himself how to code when he was 12 years old, and he built motorcycles and cars in his spare time. So he was by far one of the most advanced technical software-oriented people that we had, but his job was working on pneumatic tube systems but getting to understand him and know him, it was almost like, yeah, you're too qualified for this job. You should go do something else. But he had no experience, so he couldn't put that on his resume because he had learned to do that in his free time. He never had it in a particular job. So I think that's where the authenticity comes from. It's like bringing all of your skills to the table and becoming comfortable speaking up. And I think that's why a lot of leaders don't do it, because we're used to just speaking based on our job description, based on our title, based on our responsibility and since we're not comfortable speaking outside of our box, we set that example for other people who stay to their box, right? I'm accounting. I only talk about accounting. I'm sales. I only talk about sales. But you have opinions on everything. So why are we afraid to share the opinions? You know, the worst somebody can say is no, right? I say that in the book. The worst somebody can say is no, but the best thing that they could do is adapt an idea from a different perspective that actually adds value.

Sarah - 00:18:30: How would you describe the tie of authenticity to empathy?

Roy - 00:18:35: Yeah, I think, right, empathy is putting yourself in somebody else's shoes, right? It's not just, oh, I can feel you, but like I can actually kind of like transpose myself into your situation and feel it. I think that requires a level of transparency. That you only get when you're authentic, right? Because first of all, most people aren't going to open up to you if you already appear to be closed off, right? So like the level of how much people share with you and how much people engage with you is going to be limited by how open they think you are. And if you're already compartmentalized to where you never talk about your personal life, you never talk about your children, you never talk about your marriage. If somebody is going through a divorce, like why are they going to bring up their marriage when you're asking them how they're doing, right? So like you see their performance slipping, but they've actually never seen a personal side of you where, you know, authentically, I think we're all going through stuff, whether it's medically, personally, financially, family issues, aging parents, right? There's things that if we're authentic and we share those experiences, especially during one-on-ones and conversations, you kind of open the door for people to bring you things to give you, because I think a lot of people, we can contextualize and find a way to be empathetic, but we haven't demonstrated it in a way where people actually feel like they can bring a problem to you. So it's not even that, you know, you shut it down, but like most people have learned over the course of their lives or their career to keep that stuff to themselves. So it's like you have to set that example and break that tradition that people have like kind of ingrained in them, because you have to realize that regardless of what you think your company culture is, it's just like relationships. People are bringing baggage, into their job. You may have never said keep home at home, but somebody did 10 years ago, right? So it may not even be you. You may be completely different, but you also have to lead as an example and you have to untrain people from unhealthy behavior that they've actually brought into your organization from other places. And so I think that's something people know. They're like, oh, we have a healthy culture, but if you're not doing anything to actively instill that into people and to help them understand what it is, then people are just going to be like, oh, we're going to keep going with the same behavior they had before. And then, you know, come through your organization and leave feeling the same way they did when they got there, because they didn't actually know that they were in a place where they could have been more open and would have gotten more empathetic responses from leadership.

Sarah - 00:21:03: So when we talk about love and authenticity and empathy, you know, they're all things that to some people, I think, can sound very soft or woo woo still, right, especially if they come from a different way of thinking. But you also talk about, you know, our skills that can have a big impact, but they're not skills that are used in isolation. So you say, you know, love without accountability becomes enabling. Honesty without tact, empathy or maturity can be damaging. I'm just wondering if you can share an example of love with accountability or balancing honesty and empathy just to sort of illustrate that, you know, applying these practices doesn't mean that you are just giving everyone hugs and, you know, letting everyone walk on you, right? It's their skills that are balanced with those other elements.

Roy - 00:21:59: Yeah. And that's one thing in the book, I had a lot of my mentees kind of read the pre-draft and there were some stories and they were like, no, we need more stories in the book. They were like, we've known you, we've worked for you. And so there's a section in the book called principles and action that is literally a story based on actual people that kind of lays out each one. But to give an example of love and accountability, we had an opening in Philadelphia, right? For a field service technician. And I went up to actually right outside of Erie, Pennsylvania. We interviewed a couple of candidates and we had a really solid candidate who was very honest, right? He wanted to relocate, had just went through a divorce, right? A really tough divorce. And he wanted to kind of get to a new area. So we hired him, moved him to Philadelphia. He had like 15 years of experience in field service. He was former military. But then we started getting complaints from the customer that he was falling asleep in the pharmacy. So like just sitting in the pharmacy, supposed to be doing maintenance and pulling data. He would just fall asleep at a desk in the pharmacy. And I'm like, what is going on? And then I sent somebody to do some training with them, sent a supervisor down there, and he got in a car accident because he fell asleep at the light. Not bad, but like bumped the car in front of him and he fell asleep. And so the very objective part of my brain is like, I have customers complaining that you're falling asleep, right? You're late from a response time perspective, probably because you're asleep or something's going on. And you just got in a car accident with another employee and the car, like you are a high risk. But like the part starting with love is that like, okay, I at least owe you a conversation to ask you what's going on. Like, can you explain to me why your fault, like what's going on? Like, is there something going on? Are you having trouble sleeping and all of this other stuff? And he actually admitted, he was like, well, I've been having a hard time sleeping. And so I asked, have you been to a doctor? You know, have you seen somebody and whatever else? And he had. So before I took action as a leader, I'm like, I at least want him to have an answer on what's going on. So he went to the doctor, actually discovered he had severe sleep apnea. Even though he was laying in bed, he was only sleeping like 45 minutes to an hour at night because his brain was being deprived of oxygen and his body basically kept shutting down. So, you know, so they put, they were like, you need to, you know, got to lose some weight because he had gained a lot of weight after his divorce. He had too much weight on his chest. And so going through that whole scenario, turned around a relationship with the customers, loved them, but on a discipline side. But then after that, then he started showing up. He wasn't meeting SLA. Something was going on. So I did the same thing, had a conversation. I said, hey, what's going on? You're not responding. And literally our contract stated our technicians are supposed to live within 45 minutes of their primary site. At the time I was living in Delaware, I lived an hour and 45 minutes from the customer. The customer called me. They had called him three hours before, right? I'm a VP at the time. I get in my car and I drive. To the hospital in Philadelphia. And I get there before he does. So now we're four hours and 45 minutes in and he didn't show up. And then when he arrived, I'm like, what's going on? What's happening? And he told me he moved. So he got into a new relationship. He got a girlfriend. He moved to New Jersey two and a half hours away. So he had an ultimatum. Like, I love you. I'm glad you got a new relationship. I'm glad you're doing better. Right. He had lost a ton of weight, you know, was healthier. He didn't need to see Pat machine anymore, but he didn't want to reload. Okay. So we terminated them. Same person. Right. But like, I have to hold you to the same expectation that I hold everybody else to. You made a personal decision that you knew because you were hiding it from us. You knew it was in violation of your employment contract. So unless you move, I'm going to have to hire somebody else. So we gave him time to transition. And when I actually went to go pick up the company vehicle from him, you know, I took him to breakfast. So I had another technician with me. We went and picked the vehicle up and he apologized. And he was like, I'm so sorry. You know, I should have, I'll let you all know or whatever else. And I still have a relationship with that person to this day. Right. So, you know, he went back, he, you know, works in another industry, has a good job, is remarried, and we still stay in touch and have that relationship. But I held him accountable to what his job called for. And, you know, we had already given him an opportunity to get rid of an issue that was actually a health problem that he could have got terminated for. And then he would have still had that issue moving forward if we didn't have just take that opportunity to have that conversation.

Sarah - 00:26:21: There were some questions earlier about recruiting, retention, and I'm just wondering if you can share maybe a synopsis of your observations on how do we find and nurture the next wave of talent?

Roy - 00:26:40: Yeah. So on finding and, you know, I think you were at, so I spoke a couple of weeks ago at Field Service Palm Springs, and there were kind of like four R's that I went through that we need to do to just the way that we recruit. So I think one of the problems that we've had in the field service industry for a long time, I've called our job descriptions, Dear John letters, right? So because our job descriptions look like we're trying to hire former employees. Right. Because when you look at the requirements of what I'm asking for a new employee to know how to do. It's the same requirements of the people who already work here. So how would I have two years worth of experience, especially if you don't have like a commodity and your equipment is proprietary? Like how would anyone have experience in proprietary equipment that only you sell? But it's in your job description. You have education requirements in your job description that none of your technicians actually have, right? So I remember seeing job descriptions that an associate's degree is required, you know, a bachelor's degree is preferred, but no technician in the field actually had that experience. So one thing that I've worked with organizations on and I've done it in every company that I am is go to your job description and compare your job description to the people who are actually performing well in the field today. Right. Because what you'll find is you had a referral that was an atypical candidate that you hired because a good technician recommended them. So you brought them on board and they're doing an amazing job and they completely defy your job posting. Right. So if you have atypical people within your organization. That are doing well, that are doing the job well, then go revise your job description based on those people so that you kind of expand the pool of candidates you're actually recruiting from, right? Because we're saying there's no talent out there, but it's because we've basically fished all of the talent out of that pool, but there's like a whole other ocean that we haven't even bothered to go check, right? And like those people, because we've invested in training, because we've got augmented reality, because we have all these tools, but I think the first hurdle is the pool of people you're recruiting from is actually smaller than it should be because you haven't got what your hiring managers and the teams that are actually leading the people on the ground and rewrote the job descriptions, right? So like pay attention to those referrals and things of that nature. And then also start getting the managers back involved in screening. We have to stop trusting all of the, I know we talk about AI a lot, but all of the rank-based keyword search screening that we're doing on resumes. One of the things that I've done at my two last companies is we let the tool run in grade resumes. Then I took a group of managers and had them go through resumes blind and grade them. And the grades were the opposite. So what the system said was an A or B. My manager said they would not hire those people. And what the system said was a C or a D. My managers wanted them at the top of the pile to interview so that's the other thing is that we're also using tools that are not evolving, right? Because the tool is based on historical data. So those are the resumes we were using. Those are the resumes that were successful. But now you need a different group of people. So re-involve those hiring managers and let them dive into the system and just look at resumes blind. Because normally what you see as the hiring manager is what's been screened by human resources, right? So there's a thousand applicants and maybe you get to see eight or nine. And what I've learned, let the manager go dig through a thousand applications and I guarantee you they'll find you over a hundred candidates that otherwise would have been screened out because they know what it takes to do the job. They know who they can train and they can see skills in those resumes that the system or that keywords won't catch. So, and that's one. And on retention, care for your employees, respect them and value them, right? That was my last, I do leadership tips on LinkedIn and Instagram Monday through Friday of every week but that's, yeah, make sure they feel cared for, make sure they feel respected. A shortcut for respecting technicians, ride-alongs, respect and value. You get a two for one if you do a ride-along with a technician, especially if you're not from the service organization. So encourage other people in the organization to go spend time with technicians because that isolation that we talked about earlier, like that, they start to feel more a part of the company when more people within the company actually understand what they do because they stood beside them. And even if it's two hours or three hours, that'll help you with a lot of retention because they feel more connected to the company. And it's harder for them to get poached by somebody that just sees them while they're out and about or somebody that, you know, that may jump into their email to recruit them because they feel more connected to the company.

Sarah - 00:31:34: Last year at our Paris event, there was a presentation by Culligan, and they actually shared that they have, I think it's a certain month of the year within their company that every employee that isn't in service is paired for a day with someone who is, whether it's call center, field service, et cetera, to spend the day with them. It helps them understand those roles better, but also understand the customer needs better. And it's something that within the company is so valued on both sides. To your point, the technicians and the service teams feel that they're being acknowledged for the important work that they do. But then the people within the company appreciate it because they learn so much and they see so much of what goes on and what the customer sentiment is and all of that. So it's a good point. Can you speak to what makes one adept at having hard conversations effectively?

Roy - 00:32:30: Yeah, Crucial Conversations. Another great book, by the way, if anyone has read it. I think having hard conversations requires, on the listener's side, it requires a level of emotional intelligence. One thing that I tell people, and me and my wife also do marriage counseling, we do a lot of things what it applies at work is that you have to learn how to listen past being offended that helps in every area of life, but we tend to get defensive very early in a conversation. You're not actively listening in a defensive standpoint because you're trying to now find how you can counter or counterpunch or offer a rebuttal instead of listening. I think you have to be intelligent enough and emotionally intelligent you enough that even when you hear something that you think is false or inflammatory or offensive, you have to keep actively listening. Because what I've learned over time and being in service, and I think, sir, we've talked about this before, angry people are the most honest. It's a hard conversation, but everyone in here has heard something about their service team, their product, or their offering from an angry customer that was 100% correct that they had never said to you when they weren't angry. Because there's a level of honesty that most of us withhold until we're angry. It's like when you say the mean things. But when customers do that, as service leaders, when we listen, I've had customers that will complain about a technician that they've had for 17 years that I'd never heard a complaint about. But in the same regard, they talk about how they have a bunch of new employees and I don't have time to be training them, so I need your technician. So I'm like, okay, we weren't hitting our SLA, we were late, but you also just shared with me, you have a bunch of people who you're contractually obligated to have trained on my system who are not trained. So one of the reasons it keeps breaking and I have to keep responding is because you have people using it who are not trained, right? So I'm going to deal with my response time issue, but then let's have a conversation about training and how can I help you? How can we facilitate some professionalization development? Do you want to bring some people out? Because ultimately, it's going to save me money on my service contract, but you've got to be able to hear something difficult, whether you think it's true or not, and continue to actively listen through the part that you're offended by, and then be able to take that information and articulately respond to what's actionable. You got to throw out all of the subjective stuff that's just emotion and kind of learn how to sort through that. But when something is true, it doesn't matter how it was delivered. It's true, right? So you may not have liked the way that they said it. You may not have liked the context, but it's true. So you need to respond to that and you need to follow through on it. And I think that gives customers, honestly, a level of comfort and safety to know that they can just unload on you. You're not going to take it personal. And then you'll actually help them figure out their problem. And the same thing applies to technicians, right? People want to come. Or your management staff or whatever. They just want to get stuff off of their chest and then get it out on the table. And you can throw a bunch of stuff on the table. I might pick three things and say, well, I can help you with this, this, and that. So let's talk about that. But it creates that space where people are not afraid to offend you. So they can just be honest and they can be open and just kind of let it all out. But you've got to be able to not be quick to be offended because that's the easy way to get shut down. And I talk about what people bring in to work relationship. A lot of people are bringing in, okay, well, when I was honest before, I got shut out. I was isolated. I got blackballed or I became the outcast at my last company. So you've got to make sure that you don't repeat the same thing when people are being honest, even if they're tact or their tone could be a little bit different. And I tell my team all the time, if they're right, they're right. I don't care how they said it. Get over it. It's our job to deal with the issues. And sometimes those issues are going to come. Enter like twist it with a lot of emotion and frustration. But you've got to be able to unwind the two, not be offended and just listen and then have that crucial conversation.

Sarah - 00:36:58: Okay, last question before I open it up. What advice do you have for someone who is working in an environment where they want to deploy some of these principles, but there's toxicity higher up in the organization?

Roy - 00:37:13: So we talked about this a little bit in my session downstairs, but do what you can where you have control. Right. So a lot of times we want to go to the top with the change. But if the resistance is at the top, that doesn't work. But I think where you have influence, use it. Right. So if you're a manager and you're managing, you know, like even looking at my career. Right. I wasn't a manager, but I was the trainer responsible for techs in the Northeast. And the culture that I developed with people that I was training is actually what led to me becoming the manager. But I was also one of five managers. Right. So the way that my region was run in the culture that we had was not the same in the other five regions. But when people saw the culture actually in my region, they actually demanded that the other manager be fired. So the technicians actually got together and collectively wrote negative feedback on their service manager and said that, like, he's breaking the law. He's asking us to do stuff that they're not doing right on the other side of the border. And we work at the same company. So even though, like, I didn't do anything specifically, but just because of the culture that you created, I think, you know, there's adjacency where people will see it and say, OK, like, that's something that we want to adopt as well. But I think it's doing what you can in your sphere of influence that you have control over. Right. And some of that, like, you know, I don't know how rigid companies are, but like the way that you can recognize your employees. Right. The way that you can recognize leaders on your team. That can be an email out to your employees. Right. So like even, you know, in every company that I've worked at, there was always something that we did within my team, whether it was customer care or operations that the rest of the company did not do. But if the company doesn't want to adopt like a leadership program, then like I'm going to put it in my budget. I'll borrow it from somewhere else. Right. And so I take it out of my own budget or out of our manager's travel budget and we make it work. Right. And so we have ways to recognize employees. And there were times that I paid for stuff out of my own pocket. Right. Buying somebody a fifty dollar gift card isn't, you know, and then when people see their reaction to it and the response, then it winds up being funded. But I think that's the key thing. Like we want these like sweeping organizational wide changes. But the reason people are afraid to take that step at the executive level is because if they make this grand gesture and it fails, then what do you do? Right. So I think it's actually easier for when you have a smaller team and a more controlled space and then just try to do some things to encourage leaders. Right. Lead authentically. Be empathetic. Right. And then make sure that it's also reflected in your policies and the way that you operate and the way that you train and the way that you onboard. Because you're responsible for the culture that you have the most influence over. Right. So like even if you're in a company with an overall toxic culture, it is your responsibility as the leader to make sure you are the umbrella and that that doesn't go down to your team as much as possible. Right. So I think that's the main thing. Like we have more influence than a lot of times we think we do, especially when we're not on like that executive leadership team or whatever. You know, that dogmatic group of people that are set aside as the change agents. They're not like you have individual technicians that have more influence than your CEO. Right. Across the overall organization, if they say something, people listen. So it's getting with those people and then using your influence as a manager, director or VP to change the culture around you. And then I guarantee you it will start seeping into teams that you don't run because behavior is contagious. So toxic behavior can be contagious, but also healthy, productive behavior can be contagious as well. Because when people see things that they like and that they appreciate, then they try to replicate it as well.

Sarah - 00:41:04: Questions for Roy.

Speaker 3 - 00:41:06: Great. Thank you for a good session. One question regarding the recruitment session where you went into the recruiting manager to dig into the CVs. How can you elaborate a bit about not being biased when you look into the CVs, the people applying for the job? If you dig in and came from the same area or have the same former employee. Yeah, if you can elaborate on not being biased when you look into CVs.

Roy - 00:41:32: Yeah, right. And you're talking about that experience. I think one of our, it's not necessarily a problem, but we've been spoiled by the fact that we get a lot of applicants that look like the people we already have. Right. So when I look at their resume, it's like, oh, I hired somebody from this company before and they worked out. I think one of the ways that you overcome that bias is by and to use a photography term, right, is to expand that aperture because there are people at your company. You have no idea where they came from. Right. Like you don't know where their background is. So like the more that you actually understand the different people who work for you and where they came from, like you have somebody that's outside of that, like because 70 to 80 percent of them are normally relatively similar. But you have like a 20 percent that's not. And so once you see that and you recognize like, oh, these people can also be successful. I think experience in relationship changes bias. Right? Because I think there's a certain kind of person that works when in reality you have people right now that don't actually fit that mold. You just don't know that. Right. So that's why I say like when you engage the hiring managers and the supervisors who actually know more about the specific details of all the people that are working, like you start to understand the different types of people who are good at doing this job. So then when you look at a resume, you're looking at skills and you're not. You're not looking at they came from this company. They came from this school. They came from that background. You're looking for behavior and skills. Right. And I think that's like shifting towards skills in behavior based recruiting. I think every company should have a behavior assessment that you use to give you behavioral based interview questions. Stop asking the generic. What is your greatest strength? What is your greatest weakness? Right. Like have an assessment that gives you better behavioral questions. And you just got to stop giving so much weight to experience that you're used to. Because first of all, you're running out of it. Right. Like you're running out of those people anyway. But you already have some people in your organization. If you went and kind of like look through that don't meet the mold. But we treat them as exceptions. And they're really not exceptions. They just would have been eliminated by our current screening process. Right. Because if they can do the job well, we didn't have special training for them. Right. They came through the same onboarding process, went through the same training, and they're successful at the job. So I think we've got to stop focusing so much on experience and really look at the skills. And you're going to get that more from your hiring managers and your supervisors, like the people who actually work with them day in and day out. Then you are from like a recruiter who may understand the job description, but has never actually done the job in the field. So it's involving those managers and letting them look at resumes. I think we'll help everybody kind of undo their bias because we've been spoiled. Right. Like in the U.S., my service organization was 80 percent ex-military. But ex-military in the U.S. Are just high school graduates that went to trade school that was run by the military. So why would I not just hire a high school graduate that went to a trade school or a high school graduate that would do well in trade school but hasn't gone? Right. So when we change that, then like the organization became like 40 percent ex-military. And we started hiring more people that were 20 or 21 or 22 years old when we just kind of adjusted that and stopped just picking from ex-military people because that's where we had hired from for five or seven years.

Sarah - 00:45:15: All right. Roy, thank you so much.

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In this episode of the Unscripted podcast, host Sarah Nicastro welcomes Ben Williams, Director of Service Operations for Americas at 3D Systems, for a conversation around his advice to “be brilliant on the basics,” how that differs from the idea of mastering the basics, and what basics in service demand regular attention.

Passionate about service and additive manufacturing, Ben helps companies harness technology to drive innovation, growth, and customer satisfaction. With vast experience in prototyping and manufacturing, he had witnessed the transformative impact of additive manufacturing on businesses firsthand.

If you enjoyed this episode, make sure to subscribe, rate, and review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Also, subscribe to our newsletter right here.

Episode Highlights:

Ben - 00:00:00: Change is coming no matter what. You just got to accept that you have to be agile such that, one, with going back to processes, we might have to change our process because we're going to make us more efficient. We have to get rid of the old, we can't stand crap and keep these old processes. And this was a lot of my own medicine here too, because when something is running right, you don't want to change it. But you can't look down for the now, you have to look ahead for the future.

Sarah - 00:00:36: Welcome to the UNSCRIPTED Podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Today, we are going to have a conversation about the importance of being brilliant on the basics. So service organizations in all industries across the globe are looking for what their next initiative will be to continue their quest for service transformation, service innovation. The reality is, before we take next steps, we need to make sure that the foundation that we have in place is solid and gives us a good place to start from. So to have that conversation with me, I am excited to welcome to the podcast, Ben Williams, who is the Director of Service Operations for the Americas at 3D Systems. Ben, welcome to the podcast.

Ben - 00:01:33: Thank you.

Sarah - 00:01:34: Yes, it's great to have you here. So before we get into our conversation around being brilliant on the basics, tell everyone a little bit more about yourself.

Ben - 00:01:43: I've been in the manufacturing world for 17 years now. I started from the bottom in service as a field engineer working my way to my current position. I've dabbled in tech support, new product introduction, but it's been a fun ride along the way. Crazy ride, fun ride though. So I'm really glad I'm here.

Sarah - 00:02:00: Awesome. So for folks that might not be familiar with what 3D Systems does, can you just give a quick overview of what the business is?

Ben - 00:02:09: Yes. So we were the pioneers of 3D printing, where you basically print a three-dimensional figure out of photosensitive resin, powder, metal. We've been in the industry for a long time. So 3D is a global company. Has printers printing currently in healthcare, industrial, and all the major 500 companies. So kind of touch a lot of new technologies and innovate a lot of new things.

Sarah - 00:02:35: Excellent. Okay. All right. So we're going to get into some of the specifics around this. But before we even do that, can you just kind of share your thoughts on why this concept of being brilliant on the basics is so important in service today?

Ben - 00:02:52: Yeah, so when you called me and we were talking, we talked about brilliant on the basics. It's basically right under my nose. I've been doing this for a while. I think it's important because you, one, if you're brilliant on the basics, you create a solid operational foundation, which aligns you for a long-term growth and sustainability. And the byproduct of that is increasing your customer experience.

Sarah - 00:03:18: Yeah, I think I really liked the phrase a lot because I think there's different... For me, there's different areas in the service world you can think about how it applies to. But for instance, when you think about the customer experience, right? And then how that ties in with the opportunity to grow service revenue or diversify service offerings, right? If you aren't brilliant at the basics, you don't communicate cleanly, you're not on time for appointments, you don't have employees that have the ability to develop good relationships with your customers, right? They're not going to want more from you. You're not going to be set up to expand upon that. And I think the other lens I thought about it through is related to the pace of change in service today when it comes to technology and digital transformation. There's so much happening so quickly. And I think companies sometimes chase what's new without making sure they have mastered the basics. And that can be really challenging. So I think this premise of coming back to like whatever you want to build next, the blocks that lie below that, how good are we there? And do we feel we're really strong before we try and take the next step? So I think it's really good advice.

Ben - 00:04:43: Yeah. I would agree with you. I've listened to a couple of your long-time listeners, first-time callers, and I've listened to a lot of your podcasts. And a lot of your guests have brilliant, great ideas and concepts. But like you just said, if for our keystones and our foundation aren't right, then it's really hard to optimize with these great ideas.

Sarah - 00:05:02: For sure. Okay, so let's talk about some of the areas where you found this to be applicable and important, right? So we talked about a couple different examples, so we'll just go through those. So the first, which I kind of referenced, but in a very general way, is customer communication. So when you think about being brilliant on the basics with customer communication, like what comes to mind?

Ben - 00:05:29: How they want to be contacted, how they communicate, right? So what are our main choices nowadays? Email, voice, text. A lot of the times we default to the easiest form of communication, right? Email, right? Or, well, good or bad, but we're in service a lot of times is bad. And that's not necessarily the best way to communicate. I think it might be a generational thing here. Just because you put urgent on the subject line of an email doesn't mean it's going to be important. If it's something that's important, people forget. Pick up the phone and call. If you're in an escalated issue or process, communicate. Don't hold secrets. Communicate. Very, very simple foundational things. And these are concepts that us as leaders probably know because it was 20 years ago. That's what we were doing. But we're in a different time now. You have to teach these things. Something that's important, call. If you have an issue, customers need to know the status so they can make decisions. Communicate. Very simple.

Sarah - 00:06:34: Yeah, it's a good point. Like you said, we as leaders, we know this, but we need to teach this. And that made me think about a couple of things. I think when it comes to like this concept we're talking about today of being brilliant on the basics, any of the things we're going to touch on, you could be like, okay, well, of course. Of course. However, the root of what businesses are getting wrong, I bet 75 plus percent of it comes back to falling short in the basics, right? Like they're trying to get ahead of that rather than going into some of those things. The other thing I was thinking is something that is foundationally important to be good at. And not only good at, but predictably reliable at and like solid on, right? Like some of these things. They probably demand more revisiting than we give them, right? So leaders who yes, you learned how to communicate, you know how to communicate, you know communication is a critical part of the customer relationship. So why would it be that maybe a new employee has that as probably a pretty brief part of their onboarding and then never hears about it again, right? Like, we tend to then focus on training on new product or this or that, but not come back to these concepts that we know are fundamentally very important to our success.

Ben - 00:08:07: Yeah. How do you interview for these tangibles communication, right? Sure people are practicing in the interview environment, but especially with the onboarding process, you throw a laptop at them, you throw a cell phone at them in a toolbox and you throw them in training. How do you teach them to be the face of your company in front of the customer? And that's something as leaders that we have to mentor them and teach them to communicate. And not the time all the way down.

Sarah - 00:08:35: Yeah.

Ben - 00:08:35: Right.

Sarah - 00:08:36: I was thinking about that, too, when you were talking about the idea of different channels of customer communication, which is a part of it. But also, you just said, how do you equip? The frontline to be the face of the business and the face of the brand. Also, though, I mean, just looking beyond the scope of field technicians, right? You mentioned the idea of when things reach escalation or things go wrong, be proactive, be transparent, have that good communication. You also have to think about, or maybe not, I don't know, and it doesn't matter if this is relevant to 3D, but depending on what industry you're in and who your customers are, they might have these different preferences. Maybe they take to Twitter. Well, X, sorry, I'm still in the Twitter era. And they're adding your business with a complaint. And how bad it looks as someone on the outside when you're scrolling through and the company just doesn't respond. I mean, to your point, like you said, we kind of tend toward whatever is easiest, but you also have to be conscious of what those customer preferences are, where all they're showing up, and how easy are you making it for them to engage with you when they need something, when they don't need something, when they have good feedback, when they have negative feedback. There's a lot that comes with that. So it's an area that I think is really, really important. And as it continues to evolve, it's one that you have to keep coming back to because those preferences are changing. The technology is changing how we have some of those interactions. The generation of the talent we're bringing in changes the dynamic. There's all of these different things that make this really simple, basic, quite dynamic in a way that we have to keep it top of mind. So that's a good one. The next one we talked about is data and AI.

Ben - 00:10:36: I'm not going to be honest with you. We could probably have a whole other podcast about data AI. It's exploded. Here at 3D Systems, we're in our own initiatives to figure out where it fits, where it synchronizes with regard to service. We had early adopters of AI that we use to troubleshoot with, and we've learned the pros and cons. I will say some, through it on the basis is make sure your data is clean. When I say that, make sure that we collected data for a lot of years. And now that we have it, and then AI is able to utilize it, you run into issues where the data wasn't clean, so you're not getting the results you want to put in versus input out.

Sarah - 00:11:19: Yeah.

Ben - 00:11:20: Take the time to clean your data. Do it now. Because the competitors are doing it as well, and they're utilizing AI. AI is a tidal wave. Write it, use it, everybody else is. But clean your data. Make sure your data is clean. And don't look at that as a cost. Just look at it as an investment in your future. Clean your data. Make sure everyone listening will totally agree with me on that one.

Sarah - 00:11:46: Yeah. For sure. The next one we talked about is process optimization. And again... With keeping top of mind how frequently that is or is not happening, right? So can you talk a little bit about that one?

Ben - 00:12:03: Yeah. So I think everyone would agree it's cheaper to optimize than to spend. Where we run into issues is your old process might not be able to handle all the new optimization and efficiencies you want. So what happened two years ago and that great process you developed two years ago might not be able to handle the technology, the synchronization. All of it was something new, right? And so we're not saying those processes were bad in the future. They were probably great for 2000 or 2018. But 2024, you might want to be able to or have to revisit some of these processes, these key processes, right? For example, how you ingest data, right? In 2024, there might be new regulations. That whole process doesn't work. Have a way or an interval to monitor your processes, update them regularly, quarterly, or whatever your company needs or your service needs. Just be able to ensure that your foundational process can handle a lot of these new processes that everybody else wants to incorporate. It seems like every year you want to add a different branch to the tree. Just ensure the trunk can handle all that.

Sarah - 00:13:22: So in your opinion, what is the appropriate frequency to be digging into that?

Ben - 00:13:32: Who asked that trick question, and I'll tell you why. Everybody has a different cadence, right? And so with everyone's different cadence, there would be different frequencies at which you probably should review your processes. For me and our process, probably every year. Just to ensure and it'll help us where we're at, where we've come from, where we're at, and then which direction we want to go forward, right? And that'll help with a lot of your budgeting and operational spend.

Sarah - 00:14:00: Yeah.

Ben - 00:14:01: Right. They all kind of synchronize together.

Sarah - 00:14:03: Yeah, I think going back to our title too. So on a time interval, you're saying every year, but also we talked about before your next initiative, which is also a really good prompt, right? Whatever you're looking at investing in or changing or transforming, not just assuming, okay, let's take what we're doing and make it better, but let's first go back and think about is what we're doing still the best way to do it, right? Because going back to the point I made earlier about the pace of change, I think this is a really tough one for organizations, in my opinion, because change is happening so fast that when you find a process that works, you just double down on it. You know what I mean? And you're not always willing to do the hard work of reflecting and thinking about like, okay, well, yeah, this is how we've done it. And maybe it is working, but is it what's best? Is it what's setting us up for our future success? And that is, I think, I see a lot of companies that will, let's say, invest in field service software, demand that it fits their processes versus adjusting at all. Only to have to go back and undo it at some point because they then realize like, okay, well, to keep pace with the technological change or to keep pace with the way that our customers want to do business or to keep pace with the opportunity for growth for our business. We have to do things differently. I think about this a lot, even we're stepping outside of service directly for a moment. But with the challenge companies have to hire the, I've written about this a lot and I've talked about a lot because it frustrates me and I get it right. Like I get it. This is actually something that I also identify a lot with in my life, because there are times where I realize I have a very inefficient process and I stick with it because it's just the time to just like change it. Do you know what I mean? Like it's like, I'm going to keep just doing this. You know what I mean? And-

Ben - 00:16:11: - my name is Ben and I do have processes and I don't want to change it.

Sarah - 00:16:16: Yeah. But with the hiring topic, it's like the world we're in really, really demands companies shake things up at the root and really break down. No, this is how we do it. No, this it doesn't matter anymore, right? But the way that companies are holding on to that rather than just try something different. So I think there's like there's this refinement and review of processes that's important. But there's also this like deeper reflection on, do we need a more disruptive change in a certain area?

Ben - 00:16:51: So I know we're talking, our title brilliant is really on the basis. We're about to get a little complicated here. A lot of times it's because of everything is tribal knowledge, right? So if everything is held up here, this tribal knowledge is not documented, then it makes that whole going back to make sure you have the most efficient process. Or like you said, and I said, well, we've always done it this way. It works. But a lot of times, like you said, it doesn't support new service software and new service processes. And you end up doing a rework. Which we might have had to have done or might have not, and it's costly.

Sarah - 00:17:28: Yeah.

Ben - 00:17:28: Yeah.

Sarah - 00:17:30: Yeah, it's definitely not. It's not something that's easy, right? But I think it's something that companies need to grapple with and figure out what that balance is and what that, like you said, everyone has their own cadence, everyone has their own ecosystem, but what does that look like? And how do you make sure you're not beholden to processes or goals, beliefs that just really are rooted in, like you said, what the business's identity was in 2018 versus 2024? So the next one we talked about, I think, is in a lot of ways correlated, which is the area of strategic alignment in the business and working to either. Break down or minimize silos, or at least enable a really good cross-functional working relationship. So what are your thoughts on this one?

Ben - 00:18:21: Network, network, network, right? Here's why. Don't operate in silos and within your same company. It makes no sense. You need to understand what the other business units are doing, why they're making decisions, and their perspectives. Not only their perspectives on what the company's direction is, but how are you aligned with them, right? Everybody's like, get on the boat, let's go, but the boat can't go two ways. You need to, and a lot of times there's a lot of synergy involved, right? If you understand what your sister business unit, brother business unit is doing, a lot of times there's tools that they're using that you can use and you can lower your operational costs. And we've learned that. It's just being, how can you be part of the team if you're not networking and you're not looking over and seeing what we're doing? There's no, and in the long run, there is no such thing as silos. It's going over, meeting someone else in a different department. Those don't be a service department in the company, but be part of the team.

Sarah - 00:19:24: Yeah. Yeah. I think the other thing that always comes up in this conversation is going back to the customer experience. More and more companies that aren't doing that, they're not working as one, they're not unified in their approach and in their perspective of what everyone is working on and working toward, that's reflected in the customer experience. And that is challenging.

Ben - 00:19:48: Yeah, the customer sees 3D Systems. They don't see 3D system service. They don't see 3D Systems, customer service or accounts payable. They see 3D Systems as a team, you have to have a solid front. We don't have different processes all over. But yeah, from a customer experience standpoint, they strategically aligned, eliminating silos is one of the best things you can do as a company in a whole.

Sarah - 00:20:16: Yeah. Okay, the next one is operating in an agile or nimble manner as a business.

Ben - 00:20:24: So what's that song? Change is going to come. Oh, yes, it will, right? Changes coming no matter what. And you just got to accept that you have to be agile such that, one, with going back to processes, we might have to change our process because we're going to make us more efficient. We have to get rid of the old, we can't stand crap and keep these old processes. And this is a lot of my own medicine here too, because when something is running right, you don't want to change it, but you can't look down for the now, you have to look ahead for the future. And that's where this being able to be agile, and being able to be agile and able to accept change, that's basically where I wanted to go with this. And agile doesn't necessarily mean just business processes though too. We're in a business environment. And agile can be personnel changes, right? It can be restructuring, right? It can be leadership changes. So this is more of a internal reminder like, hey, businesses have to operate and they have to be profitable. In order to be profitable, sometimes you have to shake things up. Actually, a lot of times you have to shake things up, especially in this changing time. And this is just a reminder, very end of A, be able to be mentally ready to be able to be agile, be agile. And I'm saying this, like I said, this is my own medicine here.

Sarah - 00:21:49: It's a mantra. Yeah, I mean, I think we going back to like how quickly things are changing. And you said like, this is an internal thing. I think the ability to get good at being nimble within the business, making informed decisions in a timely manner, keeping pace with customer desires and needs in real-time, keeping abreast of technology changes and innovations and what is or isn't applicable to your business, all of these things. That is what, doing that well is what allows you to keep up with the pace of change that's happening outside the business. If you're not doing that, you're really internally falling behind even before that might be visible to your customers or competitors or what have you. You have to figure out how to operate in a way that is more streamlined than it used to need to be.

Ben - 00:22:51: And be able to anticipate change. I think that's a developed skill, right? It's like having a little, if you have some foresight, then you have the skill to anticipate change where you're going to have to turn. Or like Yogi Bear says, you're going to have, there's a fork in the road, take it. So, but that's a skill I've learned over the last years. It's a hard skill to learn. Sometimes you go off first and then you start looking for change.

Sarah - 00:23:16: Yeah. I think what's interesting is in a lot of ways, COVID forced companies to reconcile that need. But what's been interesting is, as that need subsided, there's companies that have embraced that lesson, if you will, and just adopted it and kept it as their working culture. And then there's companies that have fallen back into the warm embrace of, no, we can just be in the status. But that's a full sense of security. You might not have that external factor that is demanding agility of you right this moment, but it's coming. So yeah, it's interesting. Those are the ones we talked about. Is there any others that come to mind?

Ben - 00:24:02: Leadership. I know that when we talk about leadership, we're always talking about influence, right? And we're always talking about vision. No one ever says, hey, when you're a leader, don't be in that crystal palace in the sky and not be available. Be available. Basic. Be available. Be self-aware. Be self-aware of who you are, decisions, what you represent. I wish that companies all had like a leadership course and they said, be self-aware, self-maintain, be available. A lot of times, and then what we never talk about is developing relationships all the way down. I'm not saying be everybody's friend. And what I'm saying is, you develop relationships, you develop loyalty. And loyalty is something we're missing in this day and age, right? People want to jump all over the different companies for whatever reasons. But that old school 1980s sense of loyalty isn't there anymore, right? I have a buddy that works at, that we used to work at Papa John's, right? And then when Papa was in charge, he was the CEO, they would do anything for him, right? Like to this day, they said, hey, if he came back, I would go back. So why is loyalty important? One, you develop your personnel, right? Then they become SMEs. And then you have this huge knowledge pool, right? It's just cascading effects like that. So be available, be personal, have relationships. It goes a long way. Do simple things. Like if we get all this swag as leaders, I'll write personal notes and I'll send them to my field engineers. I'll get a ball cap and I know which of us need ball caps and I'll send some. And it's little things like that. And then one more piece of thing, what I wanted to share is that a lot of the times when you do that, it's long lasting and it's memorable. I remember my dad used to work at a New York Life insurance company. And his boss would, every year for my birthday, would send me a $2 bill. Was I looking? So every year at my birthday, besides looking for presents, I'm looking for that $2 bill. And those little things like that are lasting and impacting. Build loyalty, build relationships, and be available.

Sarah - 00:26:16: Yeah, that's really good advice. Okay, so here's a hard question for you. When or how do you know you've mastered the basics enough to progress or innovate in that area, to take on a new initiative, et cetera? Like, are there measures of success? How do you know that you're doing a good job of being brilliant on the basics enough to build upon it?

Ben - 00:26:43: So another good question. I believe they're lag indicators, right? And you're going to get to a point where you have your great in brilliant on the basics, and then your customer experience is great. And then you reach this spot called Arte. Right. And then once you reach that, that's the mastery of everything. But the problem is personnel changes, process changes, and then you're bringing all the basics, meters are going to go down. It's kind of like an ebb and flow, just like the tide. So it's constant work in progress. And do you master it? No. I'm sure with myself, if I'm wearing a white shirt, do I have a mastery of going out to eat and not standing in my white shirt? No, I'm going to stand up. I don't know, two out of seven times, 83, right? So it's constant. You're constantly doing it. It's part of your constant daily grind. I don't believe there's a real mastery of it, but I do believe that you'll get to a point where the change part, the willingness to change, look at your processes, wanting to keep building on your future.

Sarah - 00:27:49: Yeah. Makes sense. And I think I like the way you said that because I think it calls to light the distinction of your phrase, which was be brilliant at the basics versus probably the more common verbiage, which is master the basics, right? So the goal is not to master because that's aiming for perfection, which isn't possible. And it's a moving target, right? But it's the idea of making sure that you're brilliant at the basics as what is required evolves.

Ben - 00:28:19: It's a total moving target.

Sarah - 00:28:21: Yeah. Okay. So when you think about building upon the brilliant basics at 3D, what do you think about? Like what is on your mind in terms of future opportunities, what's next, you know, what you're working toward?

Ben - 00:28:41: So when I respect 3D and my guys and I've told them in this topic of building on basics. Relationships, right? I will go out to customer sites. I tell them, I tell my team, we want to be part of your team. We want to be fully integrated. It touches on our strategic alignment. It touches on our communications with customers, the relationship part, and the leadership I shared with you. We want to be fully integrated and be part of your team. We want them to feel, hey, I know your boss is part of our team too. And so I'm part of their team. And obviously you have insight. I want them to grow so we can grow, which is basically everybody listening wants their customers to grow so we can grow, right? And so total team effort. That's the level of relationship you need. And you can't get that with generic emails, text, or you have to go down to the ground level and develop those relationships.

Sarah - 00:29:45: Yeah.

Ben - 00:29:45: That's what I want.

Sarah - 00:29:47: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's the opportunities for innovation come from, right? I mean, you're only going to learn what's important to the next phases of your business from the people you're delivering it to.

Ben - 00:29:57: Great point. Great point. If you don't have receptors to listen, it's not that ground low we can't listen. And then you can say, hey, you know what? We have a product for you for that. We have material for you so that we can help. You can't do that if you don't have that relationship. You're not part of the team.

Sarah - 00:30:15: Right.

Ben - 00:30:15: And you hide behind the screen.

Sarah - 00:30:17: Yeah, for sure. This was a great conversation, Ben. Any closing thoughts, final words of wisdom?

Ben - 00:30:25: Thank you for inviting me. I think that it's just an important reminder to tell our leaders and visionaries out there, we all have great ideas. We all have probably some process that's going to change everything. But it's just, I'm glad we just took the opportunity to just remember that it's brilliant on the basics thing. It's right under your nose. Go ahead and look under the cart, look under the rug, see what we got, look around, look in your own house, make sure we're operating the way we need to before we start decorating, basically.

Sarah - 00:30:56: Yeah.

Ben - 00:30:57: And I appreciate that.

Sarah - 00:30:58: Yeah, no, I'm glad you came. And I think it is a good reminder. It's also important to understand, like it's not either or, right? So people that are visionary and they're innovative and they're thinking about what's next, that's great. I mean, you have to be doing that. You also need to make sure that before you take that next step. These things we talked about today are in tip-top shape. So thanks for coming on.

Ben - 00:31:23: I enjoyed it. Thank you.

Sarah - 00:31:24: Yes. You can find more by visiting the home of UNSCRIPTED at futureoffieldserviceref.ifs.com. The podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more at ifs.com. As always, thank you for listening.

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Episode 284

In this episode of the Unscripted Podcast, host Sarah Nicastro gives an update on the upcoming announcement of the Future of Field Service Stand Out 50 leadership awards, a look into plans for Future of Field Service x IFS Unleashed, and a heads up on upcoming research to watch for.
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Episode Highlights:

Sarah - 00:00:00:

I just wanted to take the opportunity to fill you in on some of the things that are coming up and to make sure that you know to keep an eye out for the Standout 50 announcement and to hopefully help us in celebrating and acknowledging the hard work that service leaders do and the impact that they're having on so many. And that's true not only of the 50 that we worked hard to select, but everyone that was nominated and even those who were not.

Welcome to the UNSCRIPTED Podcast. I'm your host, Sarah Nicastro. Actually, today I'm also the guest or just doing a solo episode. I wanted to record a quick solo. I realize it's been quite a while since I've done so, and there's been some exciting things that myself and the team have been working on, and I thought it would be good to just give our listeners a little bit of an update on some of the things that will be coming up for you to keep an eye out for and just share some of the things that we've been hard at work at that we're really excited about. So for those of you that follow along regularly, you'll know that for the past few years, we've been doing the Future of Field Service live tour. This year, we have had or will have three events. We did our first event in Stockholm, our second event in Cologne, Germany, and we are gearing up for our third event, which will be very different from the others, but I think a whole lot of fun. So we are actually doing sort of an event within the event at IFS Unleashed, which is IFS's global conference taking place in Orlando, October 14th through the 18th at the Marriott World Center. So Future of Field Service has some of its own content and networking opportunities and things like that taking place throughout the week. So we'll be recording two live podcasts on site that you will get to listen to and be able to keep an eye out for. We're hosting three drop-in clinics. So sort of a bit like a roundtable where we're picking certain topics and having a working conversation around those topics in a way that the folks participating can leave with hopefully some good perspective and some actionable insights. And probably the thing I'm most excited for is on October, 17th at the event, we will officially announce the Future of Field Service Standout 50. So hopefully some of you have seen the information on that. It's something that we were promoting at the beginning of summer. So it is a way to acknowledge the hard work and impact service leaders are having within their businesses or their teams, their customers, their companies, and the industry at large. So we had a nomination period where anyone could nominate a leader that they work for, work with, know, etc. And myself, along with Dot Mynahan, who was with Otis Elevator for more than 30 years, running field service, John Carroll, who leads the service council community, and then Dr. Tim Baines, who is the executive director of the advanced services group at Aston Business School. The four of us served as the judges for the awards. So we went through all of the nominations and landed on the top 50. So the Standout 50. And that list will be announced on October 17th live at IFS Unleashed. And some of the folks will be with us in person. Others won't. That'll really just be the official announcement of that list. And then we have a variety of things planned after to recognize and acknowledge those 50 leaders and celebrate the impact that they've had on their teams, their peers, their companies, and the industry. I'm really excited that's coming up. One of the other big projects that we've been doing with, or alongside the Standout 50, is a research report that we will be publishing around the same time. So what we wanted to do is take the opportunity to pick the brains, if you will, of these 50 leaders who have been nominated and selected to represent stellar leadership in service and understand what is on their minds. So when we were thinking about what would we want to ask and how would we want to structure a research piece, I kept coming back in my mind to, you know, when I'm interviewing people. And they talk about sort of these different pillars of what's important to them in service leadership. There's the people, process, technology trifecta that is commonly referred to. So we decided to structure the survey that way. So we have a set of questions around people, process, and technology, and getting their perspective on what is important in each of those categories, a pulse check, if you will, on where they are at in topics that relate to those categories and where their businesses are at, and also taking a look ahead at some of the trends that are top of mind or innovations that are top of mind for them. So we will be alongside announcing the Standout 50. We will be able to share this report that really captures their perspective at this time on what is important. What are the challenges? What are the opportunities? What do they foresee in the future? And use that as a way to share some of their knowledge with our broader audience. I'm really excited for that as well. And that's something that you will be able to find on futurefieldservice.com when it is published. And of course, we'll share. I am personally also very excited for IFS Unleashed. So while we will be doing some of our own content at our event within the event, I will, of course, also be partaking in all of the IFS content and activities throughout the week as well. So there's a great agenda in place. The thing that I'm most excited for is eight-time Olympic sprinter Usain Bolt is giving a keynote. And I'm really excited to hear what he has to say at the IFS Unleashed event in 2022, was it? No, 23. Last year. I can't keep track. The last one that happened, Michael Phelps spoke, and I found his interview so impactful. So I'm really excited for that session. Gary Player, famous golfer, will also be there. And the MIT Center for Information Systems Research is doing an AI readiness program, which I think will be really insightful and helpful for folks that are attending. So I'm excited for that as well. And then perhaps most exciting of all, we are taking the opportunity, since I will be in Orlando, to take the kids to Disney. Eric, Evan, and Ellis are flying down after the event to gear up for some fun and go to Disney. We will be there for Ellis' eighth birthday, which he's excited for. But he has also told me that he is happy we'll be at Disney, but he still wants to have a birthday party when we come home. So I'm pulling double duty on that. But I'm excited to have a week of hard work and a lot of engagement with the Future of Field Service community, with the IFS customer base, and then finish it off with my family coming to join me and having some fun. So it'll be the best of both worlds. So I just wanted to take the opportunity to fill you in on some of the things that are coming up and to make sure that you know to keep an eye out for the Standout 50 announcement and to hopefully help us in celebrating and acknowledging the hard work that service leaders do and the impact that they're having on so many. And that's true, not only of the 50 that we worked hard to select, but everyone that was nominated and even those who were not. I hope you'll keep an eye out for that and also for the research piece that we'll be doing alongside so that you can really think about what's top of mind for these folks and how that compares with what's going on in your brains and in your organizations and in your industries, etc. So if you want to have a look at the IFS Unleashed agenda and just get an idea of what's going on there, if it's something that you might be interested in participating in, you can do that at ifsunleashed.com. Otherwise, the Standout 50 announcement, the Standout 50 research piece will both be available in due time on futureoffieldserviceref.ifs.com. And of course, in the background of all of the exciting work around those initiatives, we are continuing to crank out our weekly articles and this weekly podcast. So those will keep coming as well. As far as UNSCRIPTED goes, you've found us if you're listening to this, which is wonderful. But you can always find the episodes on futureoffieldserviceref.ifs.com. You can also find the video versions on YouTube. And then if you regularly use Apple or Spotify, you can find and subscribe to the podcast there as well so that you don't miss anything. So a lot of fun and exciting things going on. A lot of really good insights and information that will be coming out to our community in the late October timeframe. So I look forward to bringing that all to you and keeping our regularly scheduled programming going in the meantime. I hope you're all well and stay tuned for more soon. You can find anything you need and all the ways to get in touch at futureoffieldserviceref.ifs.com. The podcast is published in partnership with IFS. You can learn more at ifs.com. As always, thank you for listening.

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